Andrew Hendrix/Everett Golson

[IrishTimer]

I don't agree with this. I think Crist definitely comes back next year and starts again to increase his appeal for the next level.

Where did I say Crist was for sure leaving? What exactly are you "disagreeing" with?
If Crist goes gangbusters this year he's gone. He's not going to risk coming back and getting hurt again if he doesn't have to.

If he does come back then he's splitting time with Golson....

 

[Shamrocks and Shenanigans]

Gadget plays don't equate to an offense being built around those guys. I'm sure you might see a wrinkle with it in there but Notre Dame isn't spending any expanded time running Golson out of the triple option Golson was a mobile throw first guy in HS. He's tailor suited for a throwing spread with a lot of zone read mixed in.

He's not Kevin McDougal.


If Crist plays well this year he's gone. If he's not gone he splitting time with Golson next season.

Not trying to start anything, but here is what I was talking about. I don't think he will leave regardless of how well he plays. Just my opinion, I can have one right?

 

[IrishTimer]

Not trying to start anything, but here is what I was talking about.

Ok?

That was a conditional statement. I never said Crist was for sure gone there so I still have no idea what you're "disagreeing" with.....................

 

[Shamrocks and Shenanigans]

Ok?

That was a conditional statement. I never said Crist was for sure gone there so I still have no idea what you're "disagreeing" with.....................

Forget about it bro, I think it is obvious what I am disagreeing with. You said if he plays well he is gone. I disagree. Then you say you never said he was for sure gone. Your opinion is if he has a gang buster year he is gone. I believe that he will stay to prove his health and ability to the pros with a second successful year and improve his stock. That is where we disagree.

 

[IrishTimer]

Forget about it bro, I think it is obvious what I am disagreeing with. You said if he plays well he is gone. I disagree. Then you say you never said he was for sure gone. Your opinion is if he has a gang buster year he is gone. I believe that he will stay to prove his health and ability to the pros with a second successful year and improve his stock. That is where we disagree.

LOL.

If he has a gangbuster year didn't he just prove his health and ability?............ unless a gangbuster year somehow includes him playing marginal football or getting hurt again.............

 

[Shamrocks and Shenanigans]

LOL.

If he has a gangbuster year didn't he just prove his health and ability?............ unless a gangbuster year somehow includes him playing marginal football or getting hurt again.............

ND QB's Stock has dropped tremendously in the NFL, ask Jimmy and Brady. I believe two years of gangbuster performance will help his stock with the NFL better then one, but it is obvious that your opinion is the only one that matters. Forgive me for questioning your thought process. Let's just agree to disagree and come back to this in a few months as it is completely pointless right now.

 

[IrishTimer]

My point is that, as soon as that next one signs, some people around here will already be telling us that he will be the starter because the coaches are raving about his leadership, and he's a better fit for Kelly's offense, yadda, yadda, yadda...........

No one would be a better fit for ND's offense than Golson.......

ND QB's Stock has dropped tremendously in the NFL, ask Jimmy and Brady.

Jimmy was a pudwack and Brady was in a bad situation where teams didn't need QB's and a team actually traded back up into the 1st round to get him..Bad comparison.

 

[Shamrocks and Shenanigans]

No one would be a better fit for ND's offense than Golson.......



Jimmy was a pudwack and Brady was in a bad situation where teams didn't need QB's and a team actually traded back up into the 1st round to get him..Bad comparison.

Fine list all of the QB's that have performed well in the pros from ND in the last 20 years.

 

[Rhode Irish]

If I were handicapping, I would say there is a 10% chance he doesn't return because he doesn't get a fifth year (gets hurt or loses the job), a 5% chance he doesn't return because he goes to the NFL, and a 85% chance he is the starting QB next year.

 

[kmoose]

No one would be a better fit for ND's offense than Golson.......

And, yet.......he's riding the bench. Hell of a fit, I'd say.

 

[IrishLax]

No one would be a better fit for ND's offense than Golson.......

This is such a ridiculous statement. You haven't even seen him play a down yet. Are you telling me he is more "perfect" than a Michael Vick, Andrew Luck, etc. etc.??? For as great as Golson MIGHT end up being.... I can think of literally dozens of QBs historically that I would rather have.

 

[Rhode Irish]

This is such a ridiculous statement. You haven't even seen him play a down yet. Are you telling me he is more "perfect" than a Michael Vick, Andrew Luck, etc. etc.??? For as great as Golson MIGHT end up being.... I can think of literally dozens of QBs historically that I would rather have.

Thank you. My goodness. Look, I'm a big fan of Golson and I have high hopes for him, but you aren't doing him any favors by saying stuff like "nobody is a better fit than Golson." Geez. Its a ludicrous thing to say at this point in his career (basically, before it has started).

 

[IrishTimer]

Fine list all of the QB's that have performed well in the pros from ND in the last 20 years.

Srs?
Notre Dame was running a version of the option or at least a Power I offense until Ty showed up.

So yeah it would be tough to name an Irish QB who did well in the pros seeing as up until 2003 The Irish weren't even running a true pro style offense.

And, yet.......he's riding the bench. Hell of a fit, I'd say.

He's also a true freshman. I never said I expected him to start from day 1. My point was that tools wise Golson is the best fit on the roster for a true spread offense. Could he bust? Sure. What you look for in a spread QB Golson has all those raw tools. Obviously he needs to learn and adjust to the college game..I never implied otherwise. Sorry you didn't understand the discussion was about raw ability/tools for translating to the offense.

This is such a ridiculous statement. You haven't even seen him play a down yet. Are you telling me he is more "perfect" than a Michael Vick, Andrew Luck, etc. etc.??? For as great as Golson MIGHT end up being.... I can think of literally dozens of QBs historically that I would rather have.

How could you NOT understand the context was in regards to the current QB's on the roster and some mystery recruit 1-2 years from now? On top of that, your rebuttle makes even less sense in that context. We haven't seen Golson play a down, other than in the spring game. Ok. So that mystery recruit in 1-2 years we haven't seen at all so it's impossible to render my statement ridiculous in terms of not having seen Golson play a down when we don't even know who that recruit is yet, and obviously have seen even LESS of him than Golson.

LOL at you bringing up Andrew Luck and Vick and completely missing the entire context of the post and the discussion.

 

[Shamrocks and Shenanigans]

It is obvious that Irish Timer knows all, and to insult a guy about his admissions to ND was really classy. You will go far with that type of post.

 

[NDIrishlover3]

Alright guys this is getting rediculous. STOP FREAKIN ARGUING!!! Some of you guys are like little girls with your bickering... First it started with a stupid argument over a post that was totally harmless to probably 95 percent of the people reading it. I do agree rocket89 could have phrased his post better but I mean come on it didn't have to start a war (and I'm not saying it was all NDinLA's fault as I think rocket over reacted to LA's post). And now everybody is fighting... Rediculous, nobody wants to read this crap on a football forum

 

[IrishLax]

This is one of the most God awful posts I've ever read on any message board. How could you NOT understand the context was in regards to the current QB's on the roster and some mystery recruit 1-2 years from now? On top of that, your rebuttle makes even less sense in that context. We haven't seen Golson play a down, other than in the spring game. Ok. So that mystery recruit in 1-2 years we haven't seen at all so it's impossible to render my statement ridiculous in terms of not having seen Golson play a down when we don't even know who that recruit is yet, and obviously have seen even LESS of him than Golson.

LOL at you bringing up Andrew Luck and Vick and completely missing the entire context of the post and the discussion.

How in God's name did you get into school at ND?

Hahahaha oh man dude... for the record, I got into ND the same way I got into Dartmouth, Cornell, UVa and Georgia Tech. By getting pretty average grades here, acing my SAT (on the second try) and applying as an engineer with a pretty sweet senior research project. If you want to throw down on intellectual credentials, be my guest. We can take care of that later through PM. In the meantime, I'll stay away from personal attacks. Though that was a really good attempt to obfuscate the point at hand by making me sound "dumb."

Now back on topic... let's examine your first post: "No one would be a better fit for ND's offense than Golson......."

1. You say in your follow up post that you oh so clearly meant "current QB's on the roster." First, the word you are searching for is "is" if you are attempting to only talk players presently on ND's roster. It's a little thing called grammar. Would is a past tense or past participle version of the word "will." No matter what way you slice it, you used the wrong word to imply "current QB's on the roster."
2. You could've bailed yourself out by using a more clear subject in your sentence. But you didn't. You said "no one." If you said "no one on ND's current roster would be..." it would still be incorrect grammar... but at least you would've gotten your point across.
3. Please point out which contextual clue in your post should have alerted me either implicitly or explicitly to the fact that you were talking about only "current QB's on the roster."

I patiently await your response.

 

[Rocket89]

Really? John Turner, a ND VERBAL, admitted he reads Irish Envy in an interview with a reporter. Aaron Lynch, Mr. friggin Beast/Stud has POSTED on Irish Envy. So has his mom, as we all know. Chris Badger's brother has posted on ISD, and gave us the pleasure of reading an inspirational email his sent to his brother (phenomenal message btw). BGIF can tell you the countless number of recruits' family members who have posted and/or read this site. And there have been recruits who have publicly stated that they were turned off of certain schools, even decommitting in a couple of cases, b/c of fans on message boards. But keep thinking that I'm making this stuff up.

I am well aware of this fact thank you, and it is wonderful. But what about my comments would bother any recruits, parents, or current members of the team? Nowhere did I disparage any player on the roster. In fact, the one player I suppose in your mind I would offend (Hendrix) I went on in the rest of my comment to say that I wouldn't want to see him transfer. He's one of my favorite players on the team and I can't wait to watch him play.

I doesn't have to be definitive. Saying that it looks like he's going to transfer implies that you know something. So where is your proof? How many times do I have to ask this? Like I said, you're acting like Lindsay Lohan in Mean Girls. Just making sh!t up, and what's sad is that it's about our own player. Did BK make him #4? Any links? Any quotes? Anything? Your original post said that it's looking more and more likely that he is going to transfer, which is a complete lie. Why in the hell do you get all butt-hurt when someone asks you to provide some proof??? If you can't handle a simple request, then why are you even posting that? How hard would it have been to simply say, " I wouldn't be surprised if Hendrix eventually transferred?" Or, "IMO Golson is better and Hendrix will have a decision to make." Instead, you lie and say it's looking more and more like he's going to transfer, which again, is complete bullsh!t. I could say the same about Golson. However, I'm not Lindsay Lohan.

Typical response. You're the one who 100% overreacted and now you're surprised that I am reacting to your comments? Huh?

You took my comment the wrong way. I explained that that was not how I meant the comment to come off. And yet, here you are still not getting it.

Seriously, it seems like you're just trying to pick a fight.

There is no proof that Hendrix is going to transfer. I immediately made this clear once you "confronted" me about it. Yet, you're still harping that I need some evidence.

Evidence of what? I don't get it. Have you dug yourself such a deep hole that you're incapable of apologizing and understanding my true intent??

I can't wait to see Hendrix play this year and I would be disappointed if he left ND. Nevertheless, I don't think he will leave and I expect him to see minutes this year. Why are you treating me like I'm someone trashing Hendrix and spreading lies about him.

If he doesn't play this year, or if Golson plays this year, the liklihood of Hendrix transferring goes up. It's quite that simple. I don't need evidence to make that comment. You don't need evidence to make that comment. You don't need to get all upset about me saying something like that.

If you had stated it like an opinion, I wouldn't have said a word. You said it was likely going to happen. Why? Because BK hasn't named a #3 yet?

I said IF GOLSON PLAYS THIS YEAR then Hendrix might transfer.

This is not gossip.

This is not some unsubstantiated rumor.

This does not offend any player or any recruits.

You didn't start your post out that way, but nice try. You immediately said that it Hendrix was more and more likely going to transfer. Don't get hurt when someone asks you to verify that.

Now I'm really starting to question if you read my entire post. So what if I started off my post that way? What matters is if you read the following few sentences is that it was clear I wasn't spreading any false rumors.

If you think I was, I'm telling you I wasn't. What the hell am I supposed to verify??

The fact that I've always had nothing but nice things to say about Hendrix and have zero history of "spreading rumors" puzzles me why you would flip out so much about my comments.

LOL...Where do you come with this stuff? It has absolutely nothing to do with the site looking bad. It has to do with you not saying bullsh!t rumors about a ND player. You keep acting as if this was a moderating thing. It isn't. I would have deleted it if it was. This is one Irish fan to another asking you not to say bullsh!t rumors about a ND kid.

It wasn't a BS rumor. I can't even believe that you would think I would purposely spread a rumor like this. I'm still trying to wrap my head around why you would even think that, and why you're continuing to blame me.

You honest to God believed you were saving a wild rumor from being spread by responding to my comments in the manner in which you did?

Never thought it would lead to wildfire. But as a ND fan, I can't stand it when people make sh!t up about out players. Is that a bad thing? Sue me. I'd do it to the next guy that spread a bullsh!t rumor about our player as well.

It wasn't a BS rumor. How many times am I going to have to say it before you believe it?

That's your opinion. I completely disagree. I didn't erase it, so stop trying to act as if I modded your post. I had a problem with your opening to the post, which you just made something up out of thin air.

So you had a problem with the beginning of my post? What about the other parts of it? I can't even believe that you're so upset and hung up about one sentence at the beginning of my post.

And OK, again, what proof is there that he might transfer? That's what I thought.

There is no proof. If you want to go ahead and say Hendrix MIGHT transfer because of reasons A, B, or C....I won't call you out for spreading false rumors. Why are you doing it to me? It seems so childish.

At first I thought it was kind of funny that you thought I was spreading lies about players, but now I'm kind of perplexed why you're still flying this Lindsey Lohan flag.

You took my comment the wrong way. I told you that was not what I meant, and you're still taking my comment the wrong way.

Is the hole you've dug really that deep?

We're not here to pass or fail you. If you don't like another poster asking you what proof you have that one of our players might transfer, then don't post bullsh!t rumors. If you can back it up, then have at it.

I don't have nor do I need proof. I'm backing up what I said which was pretty clear, and you're the one who isn't getting it.

I'm one of the thickest skinned members on here and I have no problem with someone debating topics with me and disagreeing with my opinion. I love talking about ND football, no matter what.

What I do have a problem with is someone perverting my comments and then refusing to admit that they took them the wrong way after I explained them more fully.

Didn't mod it, did I?

It's 90% to 10% people that call this place inviting vs. uninviting, if not more. That's a damn good ration, as there is no way on God's green earth that you are going to please everyone. I have the PMs to prove it. Think about that. Your post wasn't deleted, nor was it twisted. I took YOUR words, and asked you for proof, as a normal poster. If I wanted your thoughts deleted, I could have easily deleted them. That's not what this is about. You couldn't handle it me asking for some proof. That's a you issue, not a me issue. Think about that.

You asbolutely twisted my comment and completely overreacted. I know you're not going to admit it, but I have continuously made it clear that what you believe I was saying is not what I meant. It honestly seemed like you were in a bad mood and wanted to start a fight about something so stupid.

I don't know what else you want me to do or say. I'm not hiding anything, and I'm not spreading rumors. You can either choose to believe me or continue fighting an uphill battle and not believe me.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

They aren't running the triple option. It's basically a playbook that would involve some more zone read(Hendrix) and a lot more zone read(Golson).

I doubt we'll see any triple option, since it's a fairly complex play that's difficult to install without lots of practice. The speed option, however, is a different story.

It's simple, easy to install, and a nightmare to defend in the red zone with a mobile QB. I'm certain it will be a staple of our "change of pace" package this year.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Does anyone know if Koyak's gonna be any good?

(Ducks...)

 

[Rocket89]

If Crist plays well this year he's gone. If he's not gone he splitting time with Golson next season.

What proof do you have that Crist will be gone?

What evidence do you have that Golson will be playing next year?

You are spreading lies.

#NDinLA'd

grin:

 

[IrishLax]

What proof do you have that Crist will be gone?

What evidence do you have that Golson will be playing next year?

You are spreading lies.

#NDinLA'd

grin:

Rocket you need to cut it out... your posting is distracting from my throwdown with IrishTimer

 

[Rocket89]

Rocket you need to cut it out... your posting is distracting from my throwdown with IrishTimer

Someone's gotta inject some humor into this thread!!

 

[NDinL.A.]

Rocket...Here's what I originally wrote in response to you saying that it was looking more and more like Hendrix was going to transfer:

Please don't post these things unless you have a link or have quotes. If there is no link, you're just spreading baseless rumors. Nowhere have I seen that Hendrix is even thinking about transferring. BK hasn't even said who is the #3/change of pace QB yet. If you have some quotes, then by all means, have at it. But until then, we shouldn't be spreading baseless rumors like USC fans would...

This is overreacting??? This is flipping out??? A short paragraph? A quick response asking you not say baseless rumors? Read your response to that and tell me who overreacted.

That 'hole' I dug myself in? It's about zero inches deep. It's actually the other way around. I take nothing back. The first post you wrote said it all (esp the first sentence). I know you qualified what you meant in subsequent posts, but you still were acting like I was modding (did nothing of the sort) and still getting all over my case and defending your original post...and that's why I kept going back to it.

Fair enough on the "I didn't mean it the way it came out" comment. Absolutely no problem with that at all. We all say things that come out wrong, myself included. If you had just said that from the beginning instead of acting like I was the big bad mod overstepping my bounds (I'm a poster first...again, I didn't do any modding at all) this would have all blown over.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Timer: Enough with the personal insults about Lax. Argue the points. Like you, we get heated too, but we should all stay away from getting personal. Your posts have been edited and/or deleted. This is the last time we're going to tell you. Thanks.

Oh, and I agree 100% with those who say it's highly unlikely that Crist will go pro this year after a good year. A phenomenal year, then yes. But just a good to even very good year...not going to happen IMO. On the other hand, I do agree with you that Golson is the best fit out of the 4 QBs for this type of offense (style wise), but it remains to be seen whether he has the game to handle the offense on the big stage. Right now he's having major fumbling issues in practice.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Take the personal attacks to pm. I, for one am tired of reading them and I know there are others.

Go Irish.

 

[IrishLax]

You are hopeless.

I was in a conversation with kmoose about potential incoming 4 and 5* recruits. How you could extrapolate that into me meaning guys like Mike Vick and Andrew Luck is an amazingly poor job of reading and understanding what the heck was actually going on. But way to try to jump in part way through a conversation act as though you knew what was going on, when you clearly didn't, and looking like a fool.

lol with the personal attacks... dude, I'm just quoting what you said. That's it. You're flying off your rocker and talking yourself in circles. You said, specifically, "current QB's on ND's roster." That is your quote. I screenshotted it to so don't bother going back to edit.

Now you're talking about potential 4 and 5 recruits. Are you now saying that Golson is so perfect, that no 4 or 5 recruit would be a better fit for the offense? Because that's what I initially thought, and prompted my first post. Let's ignore Mike Vick, Andrew Luck, etc. (who were all recruits at one point) and look instead at a guy specifically from Golson's class who was a better fit.

Bubba Starling (among other guys) were recruited HARD before Kelly ever went after Golson. Why? Because he was a better prospect and fit than Golson. Love to see you try to wiggle your way out of that example.

I didn't need to "bail myself out" because I was talking to kmoose about one thing. I wasn't explaining myself to the board. I was explaining it to him...because he is who was I was actually discussing the subject with. Again, you fail at following context.

If you're talking to one person you do it in PMs. You were posting in a thread, I read your posts, and made a post. The bottom line is that you are wrong... there were prospects both in last year's class, this year's class and will be prospects in '13 that are better fits/prospects than Golson. Notice how I use the word "will" correctly.

Every post I've made in this thread when discussing only the QB's on this roster and the conversation with kmoose from which you actually used the quote that you originally did.

Are you being serious or just intentionally dense?

Again, I refuse to believe ND actually admitted you.

Yeah, and I read those. Which were talking about potential prospects. You don't think there are Mike Vicks, Cam Newtons, Andrew Lucks, Bubba Starlings and Aaron Rodgers come along every year (i.e. mobile guys who can throw the ball like champs)? That's my point. There is almost always a prospect out there that could be a "better" fit. It's rare that you really get a #1 perfect fit guy... the only example I can think of that happening ever is when Charlie got Jimmy Clausen to run his offense.

You're the one who came back and started talking about, and I quote again, "current QB's on ND's roster." Which is why I responded to that notion saying there is nothing implying that in the post I quoted (or really even previous posts). Now you are flopping back and saying that wasn't what you were talking about. So pick one.

Either you wanted to talk about:
1. "current QB's on ND's roster"
2. potential prospects

If it's the first, you suck at the English language and best of luck to you. If the second, you're just flat out wrong. There are prospects out there in this very class that are better prospects/fits than Golson. And there were better prospects in his very class.

 

[IrishLax]

NDinLA... you deleted a post while I was quoting it... feel free to delete/edit at your will.

 

[IrishTimer]

1. You say in your follow up post that you oh so clearly meant "current QB's on the roster." First, the word you are searching for is "is" if you are attempting to only talk players presently on ND's roster. It's a little thing called grammar. Would is a past tense or past participle version of the word "will." No matter what way you slice it, you used the wrong word to imply "current QB's on the roster."
2. You could've bailed yourself out by using a more clear subject in your sentence. But you didn't. You said "no one." If you said "no one on ND's current roster would be..." it would still be incorrect grammar... but at least you would've gotten your point across.
3. Please point out which contextual clue in your post should have alerted me either implicitly or explicitly to the fact that you were talking about only "current QB's on the roster."

I patiently await your response.

Since NDLA felt like deleting the posts in general rather than just taking out what he didn't like.........

I deleted ONE post in which I would have had to edit a whole bunch of stuff because you went way over the line for a lot of the post. If you don't want me deleting entire posts, simply follow the rules of the site. I could have done a lot worse (just ask bogtrotter LOL). And I did edit another post.

You've been fine up to this point on this site. But why bash someone else and basically call them a liar for saying what/who they are? Nobody bashed you and called you a liar when you said you were going to the USC game. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean you can start bashing them. That's all that's happening here. The rest of your arguments are fine.

 

[IrishTimer]

Now you're talking about potential 4 and 5 recruits.

I have no idea how many posts per page you are on but go back and look who I was responding do when I made the Golson comment. Read that entire back and forth between kmoose and I. I just didn't bring up 4 and 5 star guys a post ago. That was the entire context of that discussion with kmoose.

It's really not hard to follow.

Bubba Starling (among other guys) were recruited HARD before Kelly ever went after Golson. Why? Because he was a better prospect and fit than Golson. Love to see you try to wiggle your way out of that example.

I'd take Golson. IMO more mobile guy. Obviously Bubba is a great recruit but I like Golson's body of work in HS better. Took over starting from a senior as a soph. Won multiple stat titles. Both are great athletes but I think Golson has the mobility factor, which I like more. And that still misses the point. I wasn't comparing him against other players in his class. I was comparing him to kmoose's mystery recruit.

Thanks for pointing out that Vick and Luck were both recruits at one point...let's just ignore we've seen how they panned out.

If you're talking to one person you do it in PMs.

I figured quoting them and responding directly to that quote would be easy enough for a person of your intelligence to follow. My apologies.

I read your posts poorly, and made a post.

Fixed

 

[IrishLax]

3. Bringing up Mike Vick and Andrew Luck was and still is laughable. For a few glaringly obvious reasons. The first being your initial premise was that we haven't seen Golson play a down..thus rendering him somewhat of an unknown. Ok. Well if this works one way it logically has to work back the other way. Golson could in fact be Mike Vick but we don't know it yet. (For the record I do not think he is) Secondly, you referencing two KNOWN quantities as football such as those two when talking about a player who in your own words "hasn't played a down" makes no sense at all. Obviously I would take Vick or Luck over Golson, because we've actually seen Vick and Luck play. We have not seen this mystery future 4 and 5* star recruit play at all yet..and don't even know for sure if he exists.....The point being I find it hard to believe that in a year or so ND will land a 4* or 5* recruit who is better suited to Kelly's offense(like kmoose was saying) than Golson because Golson is just about as perfect a fit for the spread offense that you could ask for tools wise(which is what I responding to).

Read my above post where I quote you in response to everything else.

In response to the part I bolded of this nugget, Bubba Starling is a perfect example of a guy we should have had except for uncertainty with our baseball coaching situation. Now, crazy stuff has happened since then where he took a big MLB contract and ditched football, but he was and is a better fit/prospect than Golson.

There are also guys like Alviti and other in '13 that could be better than Golson. Will they start over him even if they sign? Likely no because Golson was an EE and will have had 2 full years in addition to that in the system. It'd be darn near impossible for a true frosh (even if they ARE a better fit than Golson) to beat him out.

But there are guys with a better tool set than Golson out there. Lots of them. It's really foolish to argue otherwise. And chances are ND will land one in '13. Golson is not a "perfect" fit... he is a "very good" fit.