‘23 VA ATH Brandyn Hillman (Michigan Verbal)

[Sea Turtle]

This. If Freeman leaves before a playoff appearance, who cares. I love the guy but if the goal is to win big and he’s not doing that then time to move on anyways. If another program takes him on without him doing so here, so be it. The conversation matters when he wins big here and then leaves. Until then these are just excuses so if he doesn’t, it’s not his fault.

Who?? Who is going to win big here if not Freeman? The best coaches won't come here because the Administration won't budge an inch to help them compete on an equal playing field.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Michigan has never had ND level academic standards for it's football players.

Congratulations.

As a result of their 'compromise', Michigan is still a top 25 university nationwide. I doubt it's made any sort of legitimate impact on their credentials in the slightest.

The fact that Michigan is willing to make it work but ND is not, isn't an indication of superiority, it's an indication of ignorance, elitism and unwillingness to conform.

 

[Sea Turtle]

And here is the irony.

In 2013 ND kicked BK’s starting QB, that was just in a NCG, out of school. Still to this day, that has yet to happen at any school or to any coach. If Freeman makes a NCG and that happens, then let’s discuss it.

In 2015, BK made a NY6 bowl with a backup QB. In 2022, Freeman had a backup QB, lost to two total ass teams and played in The Who gives a fuck bowl.

See the pattern. Both dealt with similar shit. One guy just won his way out of it. I expect Freeman, over time, to do the same. However, if he doesn’t, it’s not the admins fault. It’s his. And, I’m sure he sees it that way.

If he never wins anything worth a shit, then the admin is not holding him back from being great. It might be holding him back from being good. But we don’t want good anyways. We want great. Great coaches will produce very good results at ND. We just saw it with a guy who was “lazy” while he dealt with some crazy ass stuff over the years himself.

Listen to yourself. ND does shit that no school does to any coach but if Freeman or anyone else can't win big here, it's the coach's fault?

The administration takes no blame? They kick starting quarterbacks out, the frozen five, won't budge on admissions or undergraduate transfers or NIL and it's the coach's fault if he doesn't win big?

Nobody is beating the top dogs with those type of restrictions. Not Kelly, not Freeman. Not anybody who would come here. And the best won't come here because they want to win big.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Congratulations.

As a result of their 'compromise', Michigan is still a top 25 university nationwide. I doubt it's made any sort of legitimate impact on their credentials in the slightest.

The fact that Michigan is willing to make it work but ND is not, isn't an indication of superiority, it's an indication of ignorance, elitism and unwillingness to conform.

I hear Duke degrees are worthless now because of their basketball program 🤣

 

[Luckylucci]

The argument is, ND’s admin is holding Freeman back. Nobody is holding Freeman back from being a playoff contender. When he gets there this conversation has relevancy.

When Freeman gets this program back to knocking on the door annually. And he can’t get them over the top. Until then, he’s just a guy that everyone likes to make excuses for.

 

[Crazy Balki]

The argument is, ND’s admin is holding Freeman back. Nobody is holding Freeman back from being a playoff contender. When he gets there this conversation has relevancy.

When Freeman gets this program back to knocking on the door annually. And he can’t get them over the top. Until then, he’s just a guy that everyone likes to make excuses for.

Once again, you continue to ignore the elephant in the room.

N. I. L.

It's not even remotely debatable. For you to say it is just "making excuses" is insanely ignorant.

Oh, stop making excuses for a coach who is a great recruiter who is hamstrung by the fact that he can't offer recruits something that a dozen or so other programs that he is directly competing against are more than willing to offer. Because that is clearly not an issue in the slightest...

The fact is that ND would be able to accept the blows of a Brandyn Hillman a lot easier if ND was on even footing with many schools regarding NIL. But they aren't, and that just further puts them behind the 8-ball. Why this continues to be brushed off as just excuse making is beyond me. It's not an excuse. It's a reality and it is very much a massive hindrance to recruiting, something ND has struggled with for years and now that they have somebody who is willing to put forth the effort to recruit, it assists in mitigating that attribute.

Again, not up for debate.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Not if he doesn't start winning. The guy lost to Marshall and Stanford this year lmfao.

Kelly lost to Tulsa and Navy in year 1.

Kelly lost to Duke, Michigan State and Navy in year 7.

Not exactly a silver bullet against Freeman.

 

[goldendomer89]

Kelly lost to Tulsa and Navy in year 1.

Kelly lost to Duke, Michigan State and Navy in year 7.

Not exactly a silver bullet against Freeman.

It's easier for some here to focus on 2 bad losses by a first year coach than to face the fact that ND's admin isn't serious about winning a national championship.

 

[irishff1014]

ND needs a lot of help at safety, so losing the guy who many thought was one of the highest upside players in the class, and one who could fill in at safety (a position of significant need) is a pretty big deal.

It's especially bad because of ND's inability to hit the transfer portal hard.

So now, Shuler and Minich HAVE to be good players or else we're kind of screwed at safety.

It is hits especially hard if the rumors end up being true and he winds up at Michigan, despite not being able to get into ND. Shows Michigan is willing to accommodate their athletes to get them in, while ND is not. Not exactly what you want to see for somebody who wants ND to succeed.

Root root for Michigan. You know as a ND fan that academics matter. And as it has been said before that Freeman got him this far and he didn’t do the rest. The is kid wouldn’t have been an option 3 or 4 years ago so it’s clear Freeman is closing the gap. Almost every site is saying it’s academics.

We are gonna end up with at least 4 big time contributors from the portal but yet that’s not good enough for you. LSU, Michigan probably have room for more fans and no one is stopping you.

 

[irishff1014]

Congratulations.

As a result of their 'compromise', Michigan is still a top 25 university nationwide. I doubt it's made any sort of legitimate impact on their credentials in the slightest.

The fact that Michigan is willing to make it work but ND is not, isn't an indication of superiority, it's an indication of ignorance, elitism and unwillingness to conform.

One school stands by student athlete and the other doesn’t.

 

[irishff1014]

It's easier for some here to focus on 2 bad losses by a first year coach than to face the fact that ND's admin isn't serious about winning a national championship.

Someone of us have been saying this for years but that’s what happens when you don’t read.

We all know that being a fan of ND is student athletes. Not athlete student. But there’s other reasons why ND is as good as they were. Look at all the money the networks are throwing to get college football on TV. At any given time a school can be watched and ND is the only one on tv anymore. The amount of exposure that all the schools get now has hurt ND.

I personally like South Bend and the area but with era attention whores this teenagers are there isn’t enough city life for them.

I know it’s been a hot topic but us being independent anymore is just dumb other than being in tv every weekend. And we still might because people still watch ND and it’ll bring the views.

I know that’s it very Likely the ND is going to win another National Championship. ND isn’t going to bring in a bunch of knuckle head, 2.0 gpa kids. And if you think they will just quit watching because you are an idiot. ND is going to put a very good Football team on the field most years and they players are going to be set up for life if they go to the next level or not.

 

[Irish4life]

Kelly lost to Tulsa and Navy in year 1.

Kelly lost to Duke, Michigan State and Navy in year 7.

Not exactly a silver bullet against Freeman.

Kelly had ND playing for a national championship by year 3. We'll see if Freeman gets us there by next season.

 

[Irish4life]

Congratulations.

As a result of their 'compromise', Michigan is still a top 25 university nationwide. I doubt it's made any sort of legitimate impact on their credentials in the slightest.

The fact that Michigan is willing to make it work but ND is not, isn't an indication of superiority, it's an indication of ignorance, elitism and unwillingness to conform.

It's the simple, inconvenient truth.

 

[T-Boone]

This is dangness

 

[Irish#1]

And he kept trying to leave because ND kept sabotaging him. As early as 2012.

Finally he got his chance and bolted. Freeman probably will too.

OK

 

[Irish#1]

From what I'm reading, it sounds like some of you expected everything to be fixed once Freeman was hired, but I don't remember reading anything about academic standards being lowered. MF is going after guys that BK would pass on and you get excited. You better get use to this because if MF keeps doing this, there's going to be more Hillmans.

 

[Irish4life]

From what I'm reading, it sounds like some of you expected everything to be fixed once Freeman was hired, but I don't remember reading anything about academic standards being lowered. MF is going after guys that BK would pass on and you get excited. You better get use to this because if MF keeps doing this, there's going to be more Hillmans.

And it will ultimately be worth it. Because for every recruit that ultimately can't (or won't) cut it, there will be a recruit that ND wouldn't have had a shot at previously that will.

 

[brewdog_14527]

It seems like much of the blame here is toward the administration. If the kid was required to do something to get in and couldn't/wouldn't do it, why are we not questioning the kid? He had a chance and didn't take advantage of it. Seems he took an easier path. Not denigrating him for it, but I am not sure this is on the admin as much as it is on the kid.

 

[IrishLion]

Reading through everything, I think @Luckylucci and @Crazy Balki are yelling at each other for no reason, because you’re essentially arguing different points, and you’re both correct about the primary points you’re trying to make.

Lucky thinks Freeman doesn’t get any of the “benefit of the doubt” that Kelly got, because Kelly won a lot of games over 12 years, while we still don’t technically know if Freeman is more than an average head coach. That’s valid and fair, even if I don’t necessarily agree with it (I take the stance that correcting the course after the Marshall debacle and despite having Pyne at QB is a sign that he’s at least an above average leader/CEO). Until MFMF proves his coaching chops with a couple more 10+ win seasons, and maybe a playoff appearance thrown in (with the caveat many will make being that the expanded playoff is easier to get into, because ND should be in every year at 10-2, but we’ll cross that bridge when we get there), we can’t debate the handcuffs that are going to hypothetically keep him from getting over the top and winning a natty.

On the flip side, Balki is absolutely 100% correct that Freeman’s primary strength has been given an artificial ceiling that BK didn’t have to deal with, because it was never BK’s strength to begin with. BK was hired to be a program builder, and he did deal with obstacles of his own in that regard, but many were of his own making. Freeman was hired to be an ace recruiter and put a ready-made roster over the top by being a good man who connects with young people. We knew NIL would be a thorn, but no one guessed the extent to which the problem would hamstring a guy like MFMF. It was terribly unlucky timing that he got hired exactly when major changes happened, AND when the NCAA finally decided to lay down and pretend it has zero authority.

You’re both right! Freeman needs to win now, regardless, but we can also acknowledge that it’s been made a much more difficult task for him specifically in regards to what he does best. Maybe measuring him against BK’s first three years isn’t the smartest idea in that context… perhaps we should just wait and see how things unfold in the context of “Marcus Freeman’s ND Football,” and not based on hypotheticals and context based around a guy that left for an easier road to travel.

 

[Free Manera]

Poster: Good morning guys! Just checkin in to see if there was more to the story. Anyone know anything?

IE:

Oh.

 

[Free Manera]

Anyways, Lloyd is blaming ND. Said they should've done more to help the kid.

Reading between the lines a little bit, he's really saying this: Grades and scores don't tell the story with Brandyn. He was an 18 year old kid trying to balance being a responsible father, while playing football at a high level to earn a scholarship, and trying to excel in school to get into college. Fuck him right? What a jerk. ND doesn't need kids of this moral character.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

 

[SoIll]

"I’m disappointed Notre Dame didn’t make more of an effort to get this kid into school. Simple as that."

Lloyd.

 

[IrishLion]

"I’m disappointed Notre Dame didn’t make more of an effort to get this kid into school. Simple as that."

Lloyd.

BK learned this lesson early, and simply gave up on most of the borderline cases. Limited his recruiting pool probably a bit too far, but it prevented true holes from forming on the roster.

They used Bill Rees and developed a legit way of casting a net that was realistic, and good enough to build a playoff-caliber roster.

We'll see how far Freeman calibrates his own approach, because he will with another example or two like this.

 

[NDdomer2]

BK learned this lesson early, and simply gave up on most of the borderline cases. Limited his recruiting pool probably a bit too far, but it prevented true holes from forming on the roster.

They used Bill Rees and developed a legit way of casting a net that was realistic, and good enough to build a playoff-caliber roster.

We'll see how far Freeman calibrates his own approach, because he will with another example or two like this.

This. There was a reason BK operated the way he did there at the end. You can only get burned so many times.

 

[rtrn2glory]

The sooner we realize that this is going to happen if we continue to recruit the caliber of athlete we need to be competitive, the less these types of things will hurt. Not saying they won't hurt regardless, but this is what will happen as long as we want to recruit the big fish.

 

[Sea Turtle]

OK

Sabotage is probably the wrong word but no other coach had to put up with the stuff Kelly did.

 

[Irish du Nord]

Sabotage is probably the wrong word but no other coach had to put up with the stuff Kelly did.

Except every other coach we've had since the mid 90s

 

[KyfightingIrish36]

what did Brandyn do?

 

[Sea Turtle]

Except every other coach we've had since the mid 90s

Right but that's the point. No other schpol does this to their coaches. Golson, the frozen 5, etc.