'22 LA WR Amoron Walker (Michigan Signee)

[Whiskeyjack]

Zoinks. Gang mentality is going to win here but this ain’t it.

I haven't seen a single post wishing physical harm against Williams or Walker, or something similarly over the line (if I missed one, please report it so we can address it).

But it's only natural that ND fans will want to vent about this. Teo4Heisman and Boognish self-righteously wagging their fingers at people over this is incredibly obnoxious. They need to keep that shit to themselves while tempers are still up. Read the room.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

90% of this website revolves around NDFB recruiting. If reading the reactions of ND fans to a key recruit flipping to a major rival at the last minute causes you to pearl clutch this hard, then maybe NDFB message boards aren't for you.

Um ok? By that i assume you mean keeping perspective versus getting my panties in a wad of where an 18 yr old kid with 30 different coaches all in his ear telling him different things decides to go to school. I would actually say contrarily maybe you shouldnt follow this shit at all if you dont have the nuts to deal with these kids decisions and how they make them. Its not up to you. I actually felt somewhat embarrassed for you reading your post above. Step away from it and compose yourself.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Unfortunately its a legit talking point why top playmakers don't commit to ND. It only takes one QB to change a program and its very unfortunate we've not seen a elite QB here in a very long time.

Yet, he went to USC, who has had multiple QB's flame out either while in school or in the league. Keep in mind, Slovis was considered a future 1st rounder at QB and now he's transferring out after being benched after losing his job to a freshman. Similar to how he drove JT out of USC as a freshman.

Can't say I follow that logic. Especially since Riley just left a school after having his first homegrown talent flame out and transfer.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I haven't seen a single post wishing physical harm against Williams or Walker, or something similarly over the line (if I missed one, please report it so we can address it).

But it's only natural that ND fans will want to vent about this. Teo4Heisman and Boognish self-righteously wagging their fingers at people over this is incredibly obnoxious. They need to keep that shit to themselves whiles tempers are still up. Read the room.

Lol tempers are still up? Read the room? Bro…take a break from following recruiting if its doing THIS to you…seriously.

you said a kid deserved to be publicly dragged because he basically switched his commitment in a way you dont deem appropriate. Grab your nuts, its going to be ok.

 

[IrishBoognish]

I haven't seen a single post wishing physical harm against Williams or Walker, or something similarly over the line (if I missed one, please report it so we can address it).

But it's only natural that ND fans will want to vent about this. Teo4Heisman and Boognish self-righteously wagging their fingers at people over this is incredibly obnoxious. They need to keep that shit to themselves whiles tempers are still up. Read the room.

This is the same board I love that tells people to be respectful because their family reads these threads... yeah?

Does that only count while they're interested in coming to ND?


Seems a little lame if thats the case.

 

[ND88]

Watch this all be a ruse, Amorion signs with ND, and states he left the uncertainty to troll Michigan and his Dad for pressuring him too hard to live out his unrequited dream of being a legendary skunkbear. Here's hoping.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Lol tempers are still up? Read the room? Bro…take a break from following recruiting if its doing THIS to you…seriously.

Keep pushing if you think it's a good idea to insist on the last word. It's late, and most of my fellow Admins are already asleep, so I'm gonna hold off on acting now and consult with them in the morning.

But people are going to be upset tomorrow, and they are entitled to vent about it here within reason without getting hectored by you and Boognish. What you're doing here is borderline trolling, and you'll at least get a vacation from IE if you insist on provoking people with this self-righteous bullshit on ESD.

 

[IrishBoognish]

Keep pushing if you think it's a good idea to insist on the last word. It's late, and most of my fellow Admins are already asleep, so I'm gonna hold off on acting now and consult with them in the morning.

But people are going to be upset tomorrow, and they are entitled to vent about it here within reason without getting hectored by you and Boognish. What you're doing here is borderline trolling, and you'll at least get a vacation from IE if you insist on provoking people with this self-righteous bullshit on ESD.

hoo boy.


wait till your dad gets home.


Sorry. I'll stop suggesting people not say high school kid's have poor characters and shouldn't be respected because they didn't go to our favorite school.

Thats a neat rule IE should implement.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Your last few sentences are the problem. What “wound” dude? A 19 yr old kid decided to go to school somewhere else at the last minute. Dont allow yourself to get emotionally invested in the school decisions of high school kids. He didnt so anything to you, there is no wound to heal.

I said what I said.

I don't care if it doesn't affect me personally. His decision screwed ND over in the worst way to compete for titles and he, in turn, aided their arch-rival, all while insulting a guy who's currently committed to play at ND.

Again, if you're willing to look past that, good on you. I don't roll that way. I'm telling it how it is. You don't egg the school I root for along, cut ties with them, and insult a guy who chose to honor his commitment in the process.

But oh, I'm the bad guy...

 

[IrishLax]

I have a serious problem with people calling out 18 yo kids... ya... theyre still kids... on having "character flaws" or bitching about their "integrity".

Yall grown ups need to calm the fuck down with that.

They have the biggest and brightest "grown ups" in their ears pulling them every which way. Telling them whats best for their whole future.

You have no idea what their lives look like or what they see.


Don't embarrass your good selves trying to besmirch some kid you never met because they didnt make the decision you think is best.

Fuck outta here with that.

We can say... boy. I sure think going to ND would be smart... but to call a kids integrity into question when they have 3 or 4 teams of grown ass men, paid millions of dollars to flip kids... you look like an awful person and should check yourself.

think about it.

You don't think it's a character flaw to bold face lie to people? Really? This is one of the basic tenets of human existence throughout every culture on the planet.

We have completely jumped the shark in how we bend over backwards to excuse behavior that wouldn't be tolerated by elementary school children.

I'm not saying this as some crotchety old guy that thinks kids owe fans/schools/coaches a damn thing. I'm coming at this as someone who currently coaches and is intimately familiar with the recruiting process. My school puts a half dozen players in D1 every year. I currently coach two Team USA players. We have 5-star basketball players at my school too. And we play in a conference that is as loaded as any in the country except that California football factory league.

I would be absolutely mortified if one of my players conducted themselves how Walker did. There is nothing wrong with flipping your commitment, listening to other schools while committed, etc. However, there is proper way to handle your business. Being a liar -- either because you don't have the stomach to be honest, or as part of a charade to make a splash and "surprise" people -- is not it. At best, it is immaturity. At best.

He has been telling ND all the way through today that he is all in and would be signing tomorrow. He's been telling the exact same thing to Michigan. It does not matter which people he is lying to... this is not how human beings are supposed to behave, period.

If you want an example from just this year, Devin Moore is a perfect example. Verballed to ND -> kept listening to other schools -> decommitted -> will make a final decision. Was respectful to all parties the entire time, very little to be criticized unless you want to nitpick.

Last thing I'll say -- I could go into detail on the advice we give our players on how to handle recruiting and commitments, but suffice to say I have seen many verbal commitments switched over many years and have never seen a player on any of our teams conduct themselves even close to this. I think that I have very reasonable expectations on conduct, and I think it speaks to some larger cultural problems in society that people are completely desensitized to deceit/disrespect/selfishness. I get it, because college football coaches are the kings of that kind of behavior and modeling it for these kids, but it's still jarring.

 

[Dale]

Keep pushing if you think it's a good idea to insist on the last word. It's late, and most of my fellow Admins are already asleep, so I'm gonna hold off on acting now and consult with them in the morning.

But people are going to be upset tomorrow, and they are entitled to vent about it here within reason without getting hectored by you and Boognish. What you're doing here is borderline trolling, and you'll at least get a vacation from IE if you insist on provoking people with this self-righteous bullshit on ESD.

Can we bookmark this bad boy for the “Admins” in the morning. Sheesh. Im sure we’ll see some gang mentality, alignment (BK lol) from y’all on the issue and we’re apparently banning people that disagree with Whiskey now. This is why I said a page ago all the character bashing going every which way now just ain’t worth it. Maybe I sound obnoxious too here but I’m rather confident Whiskey you are leading that pack. I hope any bans other posters here get for this back and forth also goes your way temporarily if that’s the case.

That about closes the Walker thread for me.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Also, lets be clear. There is no “we”. You were not any part of this process or the discussions that took place. None of us were. You’re just a fan. Have some perspective man.

I gave my perspective.

It's that of a man who loves ND and hates the way a guy strings my school, my coaches along for months and then turns his back to play for the arch rival, all while insulting a guy who made the tough choice to commit to ND.

I think I've been pretty fair to CJ. He made his choice and it's on him to own it. He doesn't have to answer to me or anyone else but himself.

That being said, doesn't mean I can't still criticize his behavior.

I'm leaving it at that, because anything further would just be repeating myself. I didn't personally attack him, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to tell it how it is.

 

[ND88]

I think that I have very reasonable expectations on conduct, and I think it speaks to some larger cultural problems in society that people are completely desensitized to deceit/disrespect/selfishness. I get it, because college football coaches are the kings of that kind of behavior and modeling it for these kids, but it's still jarring.

This is such a real thing in society, and it's getting harder and harder to amend in the trenches. Then to have popular society glamorize some of the worst behaviors just adds to the stress of it all. Take care everyone and have a good night. Good things will be here soon later today. Peace.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Keep pushing if you think it's a good idea to insist on the last word. It's late, and most of my fellow Admins are already asleep, so I'm gonna hold off on acting now and consult with them in the morning.

But people are going to be upset tomorrow, and they are entitled to vent about it here within reason without getting hectored by you and Boognish. What you're doing here is borderline trolling, and you'll at least get a vacation from IE if you insist on provoking people with this self-righteous bullshit on ESD.

Lol is this serious? with any integrity here, the issue would be your posts just downright trashing an 18 year old kid because he might not be picking Notre dame, whether your feelings are hurt and you are “venting” or not. Nobody is trolling here. Lead by example. Your comments about an 18 yr old kid and his life's decisions where no crimes are being committed are borderline embarrassing for our entire fanbase so I have every the same right to call you on them that you feel you have to call Amorion on his actions. Dont be a hypocrite.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Can we bookmark this bad boy for the “Admins” in the morning. Sheesh. Im sure we’ll see some alignment (BK lol) from y’all on the issue and we’re apparently banning people that disagree with Whiskey now. This is why I said a page again all the character bashing going every which way now just ain’t worth it. Maybe I sound obnoxious too here but I’m rather confident Whiskey you are leading that pack. I hope any bans other posts here get for this back and forth also goes your way temporarily if that’s the case.

That about closes the Walker thread for me.

We're trying not to hand out permabans anymore. Just temporary time-outs.

It's not about disagreeing with me; it's about needlessly provoking fellow ND fans. Teo and Boognish are essentially trolling here (even if you agree with them), and I don't intend to let them do that tomorrow when people are needing to vent. But I'm not gonna make that decision unilaterally, so no one's getting timed out unless most of the admins agree with me.

Nothing I've seen you post today would lump you in with them.

 

[IrishLax]

By the way I have MUCH less of a problem with how CJ Williams conducted himself then how Walker is currently conducting himself. There is a really large difference between:
1) having a foot out the door and waiting to see if there is a better fit for you at a school going through a coaching change, and then making a final decision
2) flat out lying to people repeatedly over a period of months for no apparent reason

The more jarring part of the whole Walker thing isn't that he's been telling Michigan and Notre Dame the same thing -- it's that there was a very real chance that he ditched BOTH of those schools for Alabama. He tells both Michigan and ND staffs that he is all in and going to sign on Wednesday, while back channeling with Alabama to see if they have a spot for him and telling them how interested he is. That's wild.

 

[jason_h537]

Growing up I used to post here a lot. In fact the yearly recruiting Master List was started by me, I dont know if anyone is still around from those days. But the reason I went away is because these message boards become a circlejerk. You literally only view things through the filter of Notre Dame. All other programs suck or cheat. If kids pick elsewhere it's because they don't care about school, or want to go to a "football factory" or have "character issues". And it creates this environment where you take the decisions of teenagers as personal attacks.

I get it. It sucks Moore decommitted because I see a potential first round pick.

it sucks Willaims decommitted because he can be an early contributer at a position of need.

it sucks Walker might decommit because he has huge upside at a position of need.

that last two compounded by the fact that they are going to a rival.

but you guys are throwing a tantrum over the college choice of a teenager. Take a break from the board. ND is not going to stop playing football over anyone's decision tomorrow. It's gonna be ok. The program could not be in a better place right now.

 

[Sea Turtle]

You don't think it's a character flaw to bold face lie to people? Really? This is one of the basic tenets of human existence throughout every culture on the planet.

We have completely jumped the shark in how we bend over backwards to excuse behavior that wouldn't be tolerated by elementary school children.

I'm not saying this as some crotchety old guy that thinks kids owe fans/schools/coaches a damn thing. I'm coming at this as someone who currently coaches and is intimately familiar with the recruiting process. My school puts a half dozen players in D1 every year. I currently coach two Team USA players. We have 5-star basketball players at my school too. And we play in a conference that is as loaded as any in the country except that California football factory league.

I would be absolutely mortified if one of my players conducted themselves how Walker did. There is nothing wrong with flipping your commitment, listening to other schools while committed, etc. However, there is proper way to handle your business. Being a liar -- either because you don't have the stomach to be honest, or as part of a charade to make a splash and "surprise" people -- is not it. At best, it is immaturity. At best.

He has been telling ND all the way through today that he is all in and would be signing tomorrow. He's been telling the exact same thing to Michigan. It does not matter which people he is lying to... this is not how human beings are supposed to behave, period.

If you want an example from just this year, Devin Moore is a perfect example. Verballed to ND -> kept listening to other schools -> decommitted -> will make a final decision. Was respectful to all parties the entire time, very little to be criticized unless you want to nitpick.

Last thing I'll say -- I could go into detail on the advice we give our players on how to handle recruiting and commitments, but suffice to say I have seen many verbal commitments switched over many years and have never seen a player on any of our teams conduct themselves even close to this. I think that I have very reasonable expectations on conduct, and I think it speaks to some larger cultural problems in society that people are completely desensitized to deceit/disrespect/selfishness. I get it, because college football coaches are the kings of that kind of behavior and modeling it for these kids, but it's still jarring.

High school coach mortified? Where are the parents? This is not a game to the coaches. Del is going to be fired over this when there was chatter that he might survive if these kids stuck. He has NO time to replace them after they lied to his face for months.

 

[IrishLax]

High school coach mortified? Where are the parents? This is not a game to the coaches. Del is going to be fired over this when there was chatter that he might survive if these kids stuck. He has NO time to replace them after they lied to his face for months.

This. But I don't know his family situation, so I'm not going to criticize.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I gave my perspective.

It's that of a man who loves ND and hates the way a guy strings my school, my coaches along for months and then turns his back to play for the arch rival, all while insulting a guy who made the tough choice to commit to ND.

I think I've been pretty fair to CJ. He made his choice and it's on him to own it. He doesn't have to answer to me or anyone else but himself.

That being said, doesn't mean I can't still criticize his behavior.

I'm leaving it at that, because anything further would just be repeating myself. I didn't personally attack him, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to tell it how it is.

I can get on board with most of that. I never actually said I agree with how it was handled, more just that Its probably equally not wise for any of us to pretend to understand what this experience is like for these kids, how difficult it must be to have big time coaches that know the game in Your ear all telling you different things…you have family influence, friend influence, dont want to disappoint anyone, and also have factors impacting your decision that we as fans dont even know about. I just think its dangerous to over simplify this situation and expect that every kid at 18 yrs old is going to be able to step back and be able to handle it like a 40 yr old man would. For all of these kids, this is their first time dealing with situations like this, some handle it better than others, and life teaches you things…

 

[andre784]

Yet, he went to USC, who has had multiple QB's flame out either while in school or in the league. Keep in mind, Slovis was considered a future 1st rounder at QB and now he's transferring out after being benched after losing his job to a freshman. Similar to how he drove JT out of USC as a freshman.

Can't say I follow that logic. Especially since Riley just left a school after having his first homegrown talent flame out and transfer.

Darnold was on horrible SC teams and still went top 5 though I think. Every ND fan knows we were winning games primarily because of our offensive line running the ball.

 

[IrishBoognish]

You don't think it's a character flaw to bold face lie to people? Really? This is one of the basic tenets of human existence throughout every culture on the planet.

We have completely jumped the shark in how we bend over backwards to excuse behavior that wouldn't be tolerated by elementary school children.

I'm not saying this as some crotchety old guy that thinks kids owe fans/schools/coaches a damn thing. I'm coming at this as someone who currently coaches and is intimately familiar with the recruiting process. My school puts a half dozen players in D1 every year. I currently coach two Team USA players. We have 5-star basketball players at my school too. And we play in a conference that is as loaded as any in the country except that California football factory league.

I would be absolutely mortified if one of my players conducted themselves how Walker did. There is nothing wrong with flipping your commitment, listening to other schools while committed, etc. However, there is proper way to handle your business. Being a liar -- either because you don't have the stomach to be honest, or as part of a charade to make a splash and "surprise" people -- is not it. At best, it is immaturity. At best.

He has been telling ND all the way through today that he is all in and would be signing tomorrow. He's been telling the exact same thing to Michigan. It does not matter which people he is lying to... this is not how human beings are supposed to behave, period.

If you want an example from just this year, Devin Moore is a perfect example. Verballed to ND -> kept listening to other schools -> decommitted -> will make a final decision. Was respectful to all parties the entire time, very little to be criticized unless you want to nitpick.

Last thing I'll say -- I could go into detail on the advice we give our players on how to handle recruiting and commitments, but suffice to say I have seen many verbal commitments switched over many years and have never seen a player on any of our teams conduct themselves even close to this. I think that I have very reasonable expectations on conduct, and I think it speaks to some larger cultural problems in society that people are completely desensitized to deceit/disrespect/selfishness. I get it, because college football coaches are the kings of that kind of behavior and modeling it for these kids, but it's still jarring.

I think thats well said I also think its an idea in a vacuum.

Neither you, I, or anyone else on this board knows what happened in the past month with this kid. Further, you have no idea whats been going on in his life writ large up till now.

We have a tiny looking glass into high school kid's lives and then make grand assumptions about what the whole thing must look like. Its just not that way sometimes.

Most of us have a hard and fast rule about posting on kid's social media. Not necessarily because its unethical, but because it's weird. Why is it OK for us to sit here and talk shit about their core character when they're not even out of high school?

Were not saying they don't have the grades, their bullies, they got in trouble with the law.... we're impugning their core character because they didn't choose ND and liked another school better.

If it went the other way... and they talked shit on another school while flipping to us... yall would love it and don't play like you wouldn't.

 

[Crazy Balki]

By the way I have MUCH less of a problem with how CJ Williams conducted himself then how Walker is currently conducting himself. There is a really large difference between:
1) having a foot out the door and waiting to see if there is a better fit for you at a school going through a coaching change, and then making a final decision
2) flat out lying to people repeatedly over a period of months for no apparent reason

The more jarring part of the whole Walker thing isn't that he's been telling Michigan and Notre Dame the same thing -- it's that there was a very real chance that he ditched BOTH of those schools for Alabama. He tells both Michigan and ND staffs that he is all in and going to sign on Wednesday, while back channeling with Alabama to see if they have a spot for him and telling them how interested he is. That's wild.

Agreed.

I also want to make it clear that while I certainly have been very critical of CJ (and again, I feel I'm more than justified in doing so), I find the way Walker has handled this recruitment to be FAR worse.

It just seems like at this point, I want Walker simply because we are that desperate for receivers at this point, and that's pretty sad, because I feel the more that comes out, the more red flags appear. But good lord, do we need receivers.

 

[TorontoGold]

This is literally no different than firms recruiting schools for students, slightly older ages but much less experience being told they're greatest. If two of top prospects flop literally days before and the day of signing day you're not leaving that place with many options. You wouldn't have your son/daughter go to multiple events/functions and tell the firm they'll be coming to switch to their rival last second. You don't commit to EY to sign at KPMG on graduation day.

#traits

 

[andre784]

Michigan playing mental games with ND. I think they did something similar with Aj Henning to get NDs hopes up.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Growing up I used to post here a lot. In fact the yearly recruiting Master List was started by me, I dont know if anyone is still around from those days. But the reason I went away is because these message boards become a circlejerk. You literally only view things through the filter of Notre Dame. All other programs suck or cheat. If kids pick elsewhere it's because they don't care about school, or want to go to a "football factory" or have "character issues". And it creates this environment where you take the decisions of teenagers as personal attacks.

I get it. It sucks Moore decommitted because I see a potential first round pick.

it sucks Willaims decommitted because he can be an early contributer at a position of need.

it sucks Walker might decommit because he has huge upside at a position of need.

that last two compounded by the fact that they are going to a rival.

but you guys are throwing a tantrum over the college choice of a teenager. Take a break from the board. ND is not going to stop playing football over anyone's decision tomorrow. It's gonna be ok. The program could not be in a better place right now.

Bruh, it's a ND message board.

It's kind of a point to vent about bad shit happening to ND, and make no mistake, this is all really bad shit.

It doesn't mean ND isn't in a good place overall, but the end goal is to win championships, and the potential of losing 2 commits at a position of absolute desperate need with no viable replacements is a major impediment to that goal.

The fact that CJ and Walker would likely spurn us for the two schools we hate most is just throwing salt in the wound at this point.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

We're trying not to hand out permabans anymore. Just temporary time-outs.

It's not about disagreeing with me; it's about needlessly provoking fellow ND fans. Teo and Boognish are essentially trolling here (even if you agree with them), and I don't intend to let them do that tomorrow when people are needing to vent. But I'm not gonna make that decision unilaterally, so no one's getting timed out unless most of the admins agree with me.

Nothing I've seen you post today would lump you in with them.

so let me get this straight…because you cant maturely control your emotions over the school decision of a high school kid, and decide to publicly rag on an 18 yr old kid for his poor character, deserving of a “public dragging”, i get banned? Got it…The whole thing seems ironic if the thing in question is character, but do what you must.
no wonder other fan bases hate us.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Growing up I used to post here a lot. In fact the yearly recruiting Master List was started by me, I dont know if anyone is still around from those days. But the reason I went away is because these message boards become a circlejerk. You literally only view things through the filter of Notre Dame. All other programs suck or cheat. If kids pick elsewhere it's because they don't care about school, or want to go to a "football factory" or have "character issues". And it creates this environment where you take the decisions of teenagers as personal attacks.

I get it. It sucks Moore decommitted because I see a potential first round pick.

it sucks Willaims decommitted because he can be an early contributer at a position of need.

it sucks Walker might decommit because he has huge upside at a position of need.

that last two compounded by the fact that they are going to a rival.

but you guys are throwing a tantrum over the college choice of a teenager. Take a break from the board. ND is not going to stop playing football over anyone's decision tomorrow. It's gonna be ok. The program could not be in a better place right now.

You know what "fan" is short for, right?

Some of you are apparently very proud of your emotional detachment from the program. Tomorrow is not the time to be bragging about that, nor to be hectoring others about their reactions to Walker's flip.

If you see a post that you think is over the line, report it and let the mods handle it.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Michigan playing mental games with ND. I think they did something similar with Aj Henning to get NDs hopes up.

This is nothing like Henning.

Henning never was committed and didn't seem to be totally invested in idea of ever committing to ND.

Based on what I recall, we essentially took Watts over him.

 

[fightingirish26]

I feel like there's a big difference between criticizing the way someone handled the last few months of their recruitment, and being disappointed that it's going to weaken ND's class/put WR numbers in an even more dangerous place

vs

saying a recruit should be publicly dragged, or that we need time as a board to heal.

Also threatening bans tonight was some bull shlt