'22 LA WR Amoron Walker (Michigan Signee)

[SBirishlawyer]

Aint gonna respect it, just gotta accept, if his commit moment ends up pro skunky grand standing at our expense gonna go ahead and despise it.

 

[SBirishlawyer]

If this is true, kid's gonna have a difficult time panning out anywhere without integrity. It's a tough lesson to learn, but the lesson 'gon come eventually for him, especially when Hairball loses the crease again in his discount slacks. Ultimately, we know better. The ND staff has to be better than this, because the staff knew this kid was gaming for a while now. Our conversation needs to move to who is our next wide receiver coach?

Theoretically, I really love the move Lance Taylor to receiver and then over pay and over promise to bring Alford home. That is how you bolster two positions and up your recruiting game

 

[ND88]

Aint gonna respect it, just gotta accept, if his commit moment ends up pro skunky grand standing at our expense gonna go ahead and despise it.

Once you go full skunk, ain't no coming back from that, lol.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

I don't get why anyone is spending any time on this. Even if he does sign with us, what are the odds that someone with a recruitment like this will stick at ND and actually thrive here? Even if he ends up in the class, I'm counting this as a 1 WR class in terms of players I expect to actually contribute to us winning games.

 

[ND88]

Theoretically, I really love the move Lance Taylor to receiver and then over pay and over promise to bring Alford home. That is how you bolster two positions and up your recruiting game

Whew, that'd be a strong move, but I think Alford is mad content in Buckeye world. I don't think he'd come back to Notre Dame, unless their head coach bolts (but even then).

 

[ND88]

I don't get why anyone is spending any time on this. Even if he does sign with us, what are the odds that someone with a recruitment like this will stick at ND and actually thrive here? Even if he ends up in the class, I'm counting this as a 1 WR class in terms of players I expect to actually contribute to us winning games.

Zero to none. I think this thread has become more of a eulogy for Del's career at Notre Dame.

 

[IrishBoognish]

I have a serious problem with people calling out 18 yo kids... ya... theyre still kids... on having "character flaws" or bitching about their "integrity".

Yall grown ups need to calm the fuck down with that.

They have the biggest and brightest "grown ups" in their ears pulling them every which way. Telling them whats best for their whole future.

You have no idea what their lives look like or what they see.


Don't embarrass your good selves trying to besmirch some kid you never met because they didnt make the decision you think is best.

Fuck outta here with that.

We can say... boy. I sure think going to ND would be smart... but to call a kids integrity into question when they have 3 or 4 teams of grown ass men, paid millions of dollars to flip kids... you look like an awful person and should check yourself.

think about it.

 

[NDdomer2]

Let's not forget that for months his dad has been openly saying Michigan is really him the hardest. His dad is an open Michigan fan.

 

[Dale]

I have a serious problem with people calling out 18 yo kids... ya... theyre still kids... on having "character flaws" or bitching about their "integrity".

Yall grown ups need to calm the fuck down with that.

They have the biggest and brightest "grown ups" in their ears pulling them every which way. Telling them whats best for their whole future.

You have no idea what their lives look like or what they see.


Don't embarrass your good selves trying to besmirch some kid you never met because they didnt make the decision you think is best.

Fuck outta here with that.

We can say... boy. I sure think going to ND would be smart... but to call a kids integrity into question when they have 3 or 4 teams of grown ass men, paid millions of dollars to flip kids... you look like an awful person and should check yourself.

think about it.

I agree with the overall message of this. Walker certainly isn’t helping his case but it’s just not worth the character eval. The two kids who decommitted from ND apparently have deep character flaws meanwhile Schrauth certainly wasn’t without fault in his dealings w/ the Wisconsin staff and we wanna find any kid we can to flip now with no skin of our back there. “All in the game” and ND will still be here tomorrow, as will Marcus Freeman.

 

[ND88]

I have a serious problem with people calling out 18 yo kids... ya... theyre still kids... on having "character flaws" or bitching about their "integrity".

Yall grown ups need to calm the fuck down with that.

They have the biggest and brightest "grown ups" in their ears pulling them every which way. Telling them whats best for their whole future.

You have no idea what their lives look like or what they see.


Don't embarrass your good selves trying to besmirch some kid you never met because they didnt make the decision you think is best.

Fuck outta here with that.

We can say... boy. I sure think going to ND would be smart... but to call a kids integrity into question when they have 3 or 4 teams of grown ass men, paid millions of dollars to flip kids... you look like an awful person and should check yourself.

think about it.

No one is awful here, man. Most of us have kept a balanced perspective. Yes, we don't like Michigan. So fuck them, yea. That's part and parcel for being a fan of Notre Dame or just having basic common sense (lol). Most are not wishing ill will on the kid. Some of us are questioning the playing games with a team of Notre Dame coaches that has invested serious attention on him based on his long-standing commitment. But ultimately, it's about accountability for the staff to recruit players who are serious about wanting to come to Notre Dame, and that means recruiting a larger pool of players, not just the two or three eggs in one basket.

 

[IrishBoognish]

Its not just this kid. It happens all throughout recruiting.

We see it every year, but this year I find its getting a little more hard core towards the kids themselves.

Look at CJ's thread. I hate Southern cal too, I hate Michigan. But if you spend your time talking shit about high school kid's "integrity" or "character flaws" you really need to spend some time looking inward.

All the universities spend boat loads of money to change children's minds about this shit. None of us were elite athletes, and certainly not with grades.

Dont act like you know.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Zero to none. I think this thread has become more of a eulogy for Del's career at Notre Dame.

We get it man, you REALLY want Del gone. This is getting a little Sea Turtle-ish though. I think we all agree there were things that could have been dome better here, and hope that with a further emphasis on every member of staff being tireless on the trail moving forward that these issues will be cleaned up.
Sometimes in life you think you’re doing it right, and you think you’re working hard and giving all it takes and someone comes into your life who REALLY does what it takes, and it is eye opening and makes you re-evaluate what you are doing. With Kelly setting the example he did recruiting or lack thereof, lets hope Freeman at the top is that person for all of these coaches, not just Del if he is still here somehow this time next year.

 

[ND88]

We get it man, you REALLY want Del gone. This is getting a little Sea Turtle-ish though. I think we all agree there were things that could have been dome better here, and hope that with a further emphasis on every member of staff being tireless on the trail moving forward that these issues will be cleaned up.
Sometimes in life you think you’re doing it right, and you think you’re working hard and giving all it takes and someone comes into your life who REALLY does what it takes, and it is eye opening and makes you re-evaluate what you are doing. With Kelly setting the example he did recruiting or lack thereof, lets hope Freeman at the top is that person for all of these coaches, not just Del if he is still here somehow this time next year.

I could see Freeman going in the direction of inspiring his staff to up their game. By all indicators, Del has been a class act. I don't envy anyone who has to make decisions that involve a coach's future. I'm just opining on a message board. I have no sway.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Its not just this kid. It happens all throughout recruiting.

We see it every year, but this year I find its getting a little more hard core towards the kids themselves.

Look at CJ's thread. I hate Southern cal too, I hate Michigan. But if you spend your time talking shit about high school kid's "integrity" or "character flaws" you really need to spend some time looking inward.

All the universities spend boat loads of money to change children's minds about this shit. None of us were elite athletes, and certainly not with grades.

Dont act like you know.

When you treat ND the way CJ treated them, you don't have to be an elite athlete to call out bullshit when you see it.

If a kid chooses to decommit from a university, that's his prerogative.

But the way in which CJ treated these last few months and how he badmouthed ND's QB talent (including his classmate) and how he basically waited until the very last second to screw ND over is absolutely warranting of criticism.

He's not a kid. Dude is 19. He's old enough to know the meaning of commitment and acting with integrity. Saying the things he said and stringing ND along and screwing us with literally zero time to regroup is not any of that.

It's his choice and I don't wish ill will of him. But I damn sure won't respect his decision or wish him luck. His decision hurt us big time. I won't respect a guy who acted in a way that CJ did.

 

[IrishBoognish]

When you treat ND the way CJ treated them, you don't have to be an elite athlete to call out bullshit when you see it.

If a kid chooses to decommit from a university, that's his prerogative.

But the way in which CJ treated these last few months and how he badmouthed ND's QB talent (including his classmate) and how he basically waited until the very last second to screw ND over is absolutely warranting of criticism.

He's not a kid. Dude is 19. He's old enough to know the meaning of commitment and acting with integrity. Saying the things he said and stringing ND along and screwing us with literally zero time to regroup is not any of that.

It's his choice and I don't wish ill will of him. But I damn sure won't respect his decision or wish him luck. His decision hurt us big time. I won't respect a guy who acted in a way that CJ did.

I dig your whole thing, Balki. I appreciate your posts.

You sound awful on this.


Id love to break down your life on much smaller choices you've made while you're a full grown man... then see if they stack up.


I bet you fall short of your own yardstick. Let alone a high school kid.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'd be mortified if my kid spent months verbally committed to a blue blood program and then he chose to flip to one of that school's major rivals on ESD. Programs like ND, USC and Michigan have millions of passionate fans, so consciously choosing to screw one of those groups over is an objectively terrible life choice. I'll probably never meet Williams or Walker, but they'd better hope they never need something from me, because I'm not gonna forget them. They deserve to be publicly dragged for handling this process so poorly.

And this is tangentially related to the argument over Kyle and Kyren sitting out the bowl, but where is all this righteous indignation over the autonomy of 17-20 year old boys coming from? "He is his own person, with unique hopes and dreams, and we have to respect his decisions". The average 17-20 yo male is a f*cking moron. If Notre Dame wants you, it's the best place for you. Period. If you disagree, you are wrong. They get a little slack because many of our peers are accomplished liars and the adults charged with guiding these kids are often not much better in the decision-making department.

But I'm not about to start apologizing for a family who has a Notre Dame offer and manages to fumble that golden ticket.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

When you treat ND the way CJ treated them, you don't have to be an elite athlete to call out bullshit when you see it.

If a kid chooses to decommit from a university, that's his prerogative.

But the way in which CJ treated these last few months and how he badmouthed ND's QB talent (including his classmate) and how he basically waited until the very last second to screw ND over is absolutely warranting of criticism.

He's not a kid. Dude is 19. He's old enough to know the meaning of commitment and acting with integrity. Saying the things he said and stringing ND along and screwing us with literally zero time to regroup is not any of that.

It's his choice and I don't wish ill will of him. But I damn sure won't respect his decision or wish him luck. His decision hurt us big time. I won't respect a guy who acted in a way that CJ did.

I think this is probably a little bit harsh as there are other factors to consider. While some of his comments amd behaviors might not be perfect, i think there is also probably a better than 50/50 chance that CJ would still be signing with ND tomorrow had Riley not ended up at SC. Put yourself in his shoes, one of the hottest young coaches in the business, with a huge reputation for high octane offense and big time recruiting suddenly lands at home town U, while you are already starting to maybe get cold feet about going half way across the country for school.
i read through all these posts, and whether 18, 19, 20…these are still VERY young people who have not earned their stripes in the world yet. There are many people in their 30s and 40s who still struggle to manage important decisions in their lives the right way. Not all of us were perfect at 19 years old, and none of us can even begin to imagine the pressure cooker of navigating these types of situations and decisions that these recruits are having to at that age.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I dig your whole thing, Balki. I appreciate your posts.

You sound awful on this.


Id love to break down your life on much smaller choices you've made while you're a full grown man... then see if they stack up.


I bet you fall short of your own yardstick. Let alone a high school kid.

So let's just play your game for a second.

Are you saying that nobody is allowed to criticize me when I string people along, cut ties at the last possible second leaving people in horrible, compromising positions and insult those who were suppose to be my future co-workers/teammates/colleagues?

Sounds like you're doing the exact same thing you're accusing me of.

My guess is that if I did these things, people would be within their right to chew me out for being an asshole. Can't say I'd blame them for it.

Like I said, it's CJ's choice to make and he owns it. But based on his conduct, he definitely deserves some of the criticism being hurled his way.

Again, I don't wish ill of him, but I'm not going to wish him good luck because his decision screwed us over and he openly insulted one of our QBs.

If you think that makes me sound horrible, I really don't give a shit.

When I was CJ's age, I honored a commitment to serve in the military. I didn't back out of it, I didn't string them along. I certainly didn't go out and insult others. I'm not perfect and I've certainly made my mistakes along the way, and I've been called out for them many a time, and I can't say I didn't deserve it.

We're in the here and now, CJ's gonna have to own the criticism and he absolutely deserves a lot of it. Hopefully it gets to a point where we can move on, but we're not there yet. There's a lot of unknowns that he helped set in motion.

 

[Dale]

I'd be mortified if my kid spent months verbally committed to a blue blood program and then he chose to flip to one of that school's major rivals on ESD. Programs like ND, USC and Michigan have millions of passionate fans, so consciously choosing to screw one of those groups over is an objectively terrible life choice. I'll probably never meet Williams or Walker, but they'd better hope they never need something from me, because I'm not gonna forget them. They deserve to be publicly dragged for handling this process so poorly.

And this is tangentially related to the argument over Kyle and Kyren sitting out the bowl, but where is all this righteous indignation over the autonomy of 17-20 year old boys coming from? "He is his own person, with unique hopes and dreams, and we have to respect his decisions". The average 17-20 yo male is a f*cking moron. If Notre Dame wants you, it's the best place for you. Period. If you disagree, you are wrong. They get a little slack because many of our peers are accomplished liars and the adults charged with guiding these kids are often not much better in the decision-making department.

But I'm not about to start apologizing for a family who has a Notre Dame offer and manages to fumble that golden ticket.

I don’t think the opposite of saying a kid has character flaws or anything in that sphere of language has to be respect all their decisions and any sense of righteousness. It’s for me at least, just like why post it on a message board lol. Not worth it. I mean I was banned from posting here once upon a time for calling Leon McQuay’s dad a tool so character bashing certainly hasn’t always been free game. It’s just seems like why, to what end to me. JMO.

 

[IrishBoognish]

I'd be mortified if my kid spent months verbally committed to a blue blood program and then he chose to flip to one of that school's major rivals on ESD. Programs like ND, USC and Michigan have millions of passionate fans, so consciously choosing to screw one of those groups over is an objectively terrible life choice. I'll probably never meet Williams or Walker, but they'd better hope they never need something from me, because I'm not gonna forget them. They deserve to be publicly dragged for handling this process so poorly.

And this is tangentially related to the argument over Kyle and Kyren sitting out the bowl, but where is all this righteous indignation over the autonomy of 17-20 year old boys coming from? "He is his own person, with unique hopes and dreams, and we have to respect his decisions". The average 17-20 yo male is a f*cking moron. If Notre Dame wants you, it's the best place for you. Period. If you disagree, you are wrong. They get a little slack because many of our peers are accomplished liars and the adults charged with guiding these kids are often not much better in the decision-making department.

But I'm not about to start apologizing for a family who has a Notre Dame offer and manages to fumble that golden ticket.

This is just awful.


I think you should be ashamed for saying a high school kid... who's life and upbringing you have NO CLUE about, should be subjected to the same rules you make for your own children.

Its so wildly strange. Especially considering the upheaval of stability going on all around the CFB landscape..

Its an "objectively terrible life choice"????

Are you fucking kidding????


ND didn't convince this recruit well enough this time.

Thats it. Marcus Freeman seems to be someone that can change that in the future. And he sure as SHIT, from what I see about him, won't lay this kind of weird character judgement on them if they don't agree.

Check yourself.

This kind of attitude is for a different team's fan base. This seems petty and weird.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I think this is probably a little bit harsh as there are other factors to consider. While some of his comments amd behaviors might not be perfect, i think there is also probably a better than 50/50 chance that CJ would still be signing with ND tomorrow had Riley not ended up at SC. Put yourself in his shoes, one of the hottest young coaches in the business, with a huge reputation for high octane offense and big time recruiting suddenly lands at home town U, while you are already starting to maybe get cold feet about going half way across the country for school.
i read through all these posts, and whether 18, 19, 20…these are still VERY young people who have not earned their stripes in the world yet. There are many people in their 30s and 40s who still struggle to manage important decisions in their lives the right way. Not all of us were perfect at 19 years old, and none of us can even begin to imagine the pressure cooker of navigating these types of situations and decisions that these recruits are having to at that age.

Like I said, we're living in the here and now.

CJ's gonna have to own the criticism he rightfully deserves. Doesn't mean he'll have to live with it forever.

They're young, but we're under the impression that we should give them a pass when they're young for this kind of behavior.

IMO, that's precisely the attitude that has helped encouraged the kind of self-entitled, me-first, instant-gratification behavior that we loath and is plaguing college football.

I don't care if they're young. You need to learn to own your decisions and if you turn your back on them, there are consequences for your actions.

Everybody had to learn that lesson, but we're suddenly okay with this kind of conduct because he's an elite athlete and he's just a kid. Nah, he can take his spoonful of medicine. Hopefully he'll be better for it and we can move on, but again, we're not there yet. The wound is still fresh. Healing is left to be done.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I'd be mortified if my kid spent months verbally committed to a blue blood program and then he chose to flip to one of that school's major rivals on ESD. Programs like ND, USC and Michigan have millions of passionate fans, so consciously choosing to screw one of those groups over is an objectively terrible life choice. I'll probably never meet Williams or Walker, but they'd better hope they never need something from me, because I'm not gonna forget them. They deserve to be publicly dragged for handling this process so poorly.

And this is tangentially related to the argument over Kyle and Kyren sitting out the bowl, but where is all this righteous indignation over the autonomy of 17-20 year old boys coming from? "He is his own person, with unique hopes and dreams, and we have to respect his decisions". The average 17-20 yo male is a f*cking moron. If Notre Dame wants you, it's the best place for you. Period. If you disagree, you are wrong. They get a little slack because many of our peers are accomplished liars and the adults charged with guiding these kids are often not much better in the decision-making department.

But I'm not about to start apologizing for a family who has a Notre Dame offer and manages to fumble that golden ticket.

Imagine being narcissistic enough to think you know what is best for somebody you have never even met. Was this post supposed to be in italics? You wont forget them and they deserve to be publicly dragged…basically because they decided to go to school somewhere else and didnt handle it in a way you see fit as an 18 yr old kid. Our coaches know how this game is played. My guess, neither of these kids or their families would lose sleep over what you think of them.

 

[Dale]

Like I said, we're living in the here and now.

CJ's gonna have to own the criticism he rightfully deserves. Doesn't mean he'll have to live with it forever.

They're young, but we're under the impression that we should give them a pass when they're young for this kind of behavior.

IMO, that's precisely the attitude that has helped encouraged the kind of self-entitled, me-first, instant-gratification behavior that we loath and is plaguing college football.

I don't care if they're young. You need to learn to own your decisions and if you turn your back on them, there are consequences for your actions.

Everybody had to learn that lesson, but we're suddenly okay with this kind of conduct because he's an elite athlete and he's just a kid. Nah, he can take his spoonful of medicine. Hopefully he'll be better for it and we can move on, but again, we're not there yet. The wound is still fresh. Healing is left to be done.

You have to heal from CJ Williams decommitting?

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Like I said, we're living in the here and now.

CJ's gonna have to own the criticism he rightfully deserves. Doesn't mean he'll have to live with it forever.

They're young, but we're under the impression that we should give them a pass when they're young for this kind of behavior.

IMO, that's precisely the attitude that has helped encouraged the kind of self-entitled, me-first, instant-gratification behavior that we loath and is plaguing college football.

I don't care if they're young. You need to learn to own your decisions and if you turn your back on them, there are consequences for your actions.

Everybody had to learn that lesson, but we're suddenly okay with this kind of conduct because he's an elite athlete and he's just a kid. Nah, he can take his spoonful of medicine. Hopefully he'll be better for it and we can move on, but again, we're not there yet. The wound is still fresh. Healing is left to be done.

Your last few sentences are the problem. What “wound” dude? A 19 yr old kid decided to go to school somewhere else at the last minute. Dont allow yourself to get emotionally invested in the school decisions of high school kids. He didnt so anything to you, there is no wound to heal.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Like I said, we're living in the here and now.

CJ's gonna have to own the criticism he rightfully deserves. Doesn't mean he'll have to live with it forever.

They're young, but we're under the impression that we should give them a pass when they're young for this kind of behavior.

IMO, that's precisely the attitude that has helped encouraged the kind of self-entitled, me-first, instant-gratification behavior that we loath and is plaguing college football.

I don't care if they're young. You need to learn to own your decisions and if you turn your back on them, there are consequences for your actions.

Everybody had to learn that lesson, but we're suddenly okay with this kind of conduct because he's an elite athlete and he's just a kid. Nah, he can take his spoonful of medicine. Hopefully he'll be better for it and we can move on, but again, we're not there yet. The wound is still fresh. Healing is left to be done.

Also, lets be clear. There is no “we”. You were not any part of this process or the discussions that took place. None of us were. You’re just a fan. Have some perspective man.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Your last few sentences are the problem. What “wound” dude? A 19 yr old kid decided to go to school somewhere else at the last minute. Dont allow yourself to get emotionally invested in the school decisions of high school kids. He didnt so anything to you, there is no wound to heal.

90% of this website revolves around NDFB recruiting. If reading the reactions of ND fans to a key recruit flipping to a major rival at the last minute causes you to pearl clutch this hard, then maybe NDFB message boards aren't for you.

 

[andre784]

But the way in which CJ treated these last few months and how he badmouthed ND's QB talent (including his classmate) and how he basically waited until the very last second to screw ND over is absolutely warranting of criticism.

Unfortunately its a legit talking point why top playmakers don't commit to ND. It only takes one QB to change a program and its very unfortunate we've not seen a elite QB here in a very long time.

 

[Dale]

90% of this website revolves around NDFB recruiting. If reading the reactions of ND fans to a key recruit flipping to a major rival at the last minute causes you to pearl clutch this hard, then maybe NDFB message boards aren't for you.

Zoinks. Gang mentality is going to win here but this ain’t it.

 

[IrishBoognish]

90% of this website revolves around NDFB recruiting. If reading the reactions of ND fans to a key recruit flipping to a major rival at the last minute causes you to pearl clutch this hard, then maybe NDFB message boards aren't for you.

Sorry.

I'll leave you alone to not clutch your pearls and let the "wounds heal" over a high schooler's decision that hurt you.


Stop it.

We have a coaching staff that can, hopefully, sell ND better now.

 

[ND88]

And this is tangentially related to the argument over Kyle and Kyren sitting out the bowl, but where is all this righteous indignation over the autonomy of 17-20 year old boys coming from? "He is his own person, with unique hopes and dreams, and we have to respect his decisions". The average 17-20 yo male is a f*cking moron. If Notre Dame wants you, it's the best place for you. Period. If you disagree, you are wrong.

It's about contextualizing the decisions young people make in order to keep it all in perspective. Of course, Notre Dame is an opportunity like none other, but there are many kids who don't have the guidance, maturity or cultural perspective to appreciate such an opportunity. In such instances, respect does not mean agreement with a decision or approval of the particular way a young person conducts himself (especially when it's a manner that is careless or disrespectful). It's more about considering a person's humanity in this process, which is not always in alignment with standards deemed respectable or worthy of respect by a consensus enamored with the affected party.