2023 - State of the Recruiting Class

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Is this class falling apart right at the finish line?

They've added Hillman, Smith, Terek and Minchey in less than a month.

You can think it's falling apart if you want to, but I think it's a less than mature jump to conclusion at this point based on what we know about how Bowen and Limar have been wavering along with Edwards' having been verballed for four months and his personal connection to Deion Sanders.

They are still out beating the streets for players and making offers. Give the coaches a little more credit.

 

[Irishnuke]

Wait, no. I got my guys confused. Du Lac isn't Bogs.

 

[Irishnuke]

BrownerandFry was Bogs

 

[Crazy Balki]

They've added Hillman, Smith, Terek and Minchey in less than a month.

You can think it's falling apart if you want to, but I think it's a less than mature jump to conclusion at this point based on what we know about how Bowen and Limar have been wavering along with Edwards' having been verballed for four months and his personal connection to Deion Sanders.

They are still out beating the streets for players and making offers. Give the coaches a little more credit.

I don't think anybody is blaming the coaches in this case (well, except 88 I guess...)

And it's great we landed those 4. But they were suppose to be the cap off. They weren't suppose to compensate for future losses.

We need more 5-star talent, and it's immensely frustrating watching our top rated players waver and flip from us.

This class will end up good IMO, but nobody can tell me they won't be disappointed if you miss out on Keeley, Moore and Bowen, along with losing an impact player like Edwards less than 2 weeks before signing day. Those are guys that ND doesn't have on roster and have needed on roster to compete, and they're still not getting them. Meanwhile, ND's admin sits around and twiddles their thumbs, believing everything is hunky dory.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I don't think anybody is blaming the coaches in this case (well, except 88 I guess...)

And it's great we landed those 4. But they were suppose to be the cap off. They weren't suppose to compensate for future losses.

We need more 5-star talent, and it's immensely frustrating watching our top rated players waver and flip from us.

This class will end up good IMO, but nobody can tell me they won't be disappointed if you miss out on Keeley, Moore and Bowen, along with losing an impact player like Edwards less than 2 weeks before signing day. Those are guys that ND doesn't have on roster and have needed on roster to compete, and they're still not getting them. Meanwhile, ND's admin sits around and twiddles their thumbs, believing everything is hunky dory.

Not the way I view it at all. Completely understand how some choose to see it, though.

 

[Irishnuke]

Wait.... Dulaq was Bogtrotter?! That's a mindfuck.

No I messed up. There’s so many assholes now it’s hard to keep track of which is which.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Not the way I view it at all. Completely understand how some choose to see it, though.

This is how I view it:

Minchey - Replaced Moore. Can't complain too much. Not as high a floor as Moore, but a similar ceiling MO.

Hillman - Catch all athlete that can fill in at multiple spots. Problem is that with Bowen, it's near impossible to replace his impact, and we need all the help we can get at safety. This isn't the year to whiff on a big-time talent at safety.

Terek - I think can be a big body and a road grader at guard, potentially RT. Problem is that have that already. It's unknown if we have legit LT prospect that we lost in Paige.

Limar & Edwards - We have no known replacement for these two if Limar should flip. The entire class load at RB would essentially fall on Love, and while I believe he's the best RB of the three, it's not a guarantee.

Overall, I'm definitely not at the point where this class is "falling apart", but it's shaping up to be a very disappointing finish, considering where we were seeing this class a few months back. The potential of going 0 for 3 on all 3 of our legitimate 5-star commits is absolutely demoralizing. That's the kind of talent we've lacked to compete with the top flight teams.

 

[NDRock]

This is how I view it:

Minchey - Replaced Moore. Can't complain too much. Not as high a floor as Moore, but a similar ceiling MO.

Hillman - Catch all athlete that can fill in at multiple spots. Problem is that with Bowen, it's near impossible to replace his impact, and we need all the help we can get at safety. This isn't the year to whiff on a big-time talent at safety.

Terek - I think can be a big body and a road grader at guard, potentially RT. Problem is that have that already. It's unknown if we have legit LT prospect that we lost in Paige.

Limar & Edwards - We have no known replacement for these two if Limar should flip. The entire class load at RB would essentially fall on Love, and while I believe he's the best RB of the three, it's not a guarantee.

Overall, I'm definitely not at the point where this class is "falling apart", but it's shaping up to be a very disappointing finish, considering where we were seeing this class a few months back. The potential of going 0 for 3 on all 3 of our legitimate 5-star commits is absolutely demoralizing. That's the kind of talent we've lacked to compete with the top flight teams.

With the changing landscape (NIL) it feels like we had to hire a great recruiter just to keep us recruiting around the same level of Kelly, who was a mediocre recruiter.

Wonder if Ty could have signed a top 50 class in this climate.

 

[FWIrish4]

This Kelly vs. Freeman debate is crazy.

If Kelly were still the coach and Freeman was headed back to take over Cincinnati with Fickell’s departure, ND would have a Michigan type class or worse. We all know that’s true. Kelly would be getting mopped at ND with the current landscape without an elite recruiter as his DC.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

This is how I view it:

Minchey - Replaced Moore. Can't complain too much. Not as high a floor as Moore, but a similar ceiling MO.

Hillman - Catch all athlete that can fill in at multiple spots. Problem is that with Bowen, it's near impossible to replace his impact, and we need all the help we can get at safety. This isn't the year to whiff on a big-time talent at safety.

Terek - I think can be a big body and a road grader at guard, potentially RT. Problem is that have that already. It's unknown if we have legit LT prospect that we lost in Paige.

Limar & Edwards - We have no known replacement for these two if Limar should flip. The entire class load at RB would essentially fall on Love, and while I believe he's the best RB of the three, it's not a guarantee.

Overall, I'm definitely not at the point where this class is "falling apart", but it's shaping up to be a very disappointing finish, considering where we were seeing this class a few months back. The potential of going 0 for 3 on all 3 of our legitimate 5-star commits is absolutely demoralizing. That's thHe kind of talent we've lacked to compete with the top flight teams.

None of this is a guarantee.

That's why you don't get worked up over verbal commitments in spring and summer. None of it means anything. It all supports an industry predicated on people predicting and reporting on the movements of teenaged high school football players. You can't lose or replace something when you never really had it in the first place. It's all a soap opera.

I look at it come February and see where it lands, and I speak from experience coming from a much lower level than Power Five. Predicated on that and not what was supposed to happen in April. Then we see who comes in and can actually contribute. There's potential and there's doing it.

 

[irishff1014]

I don't think anybody is blaming the coaches in this case (well, except 88 I guess...)

And it's great we landed those 4. But they were suppose to be the cap off. They weren't suppose to compensate for future losses.

We need more 5-star talent, and it's immensely frustrating watching our top rated players waver and flip from us.

This class will end up good IMO, but nobody can tell me they won't be disappointed if you miss out on Keeley, Moore and Bowen, along with losing an impact player like Edwards less than 2 weeks before signing day. Those are guys that ND doesn't have on roster and have needed on roster to compete, and they're still not getting them. Meanwhile, ND's admin sits around and twiddles their thumbs, believing everything is hunky dory.

Keely has been de-committed for a while now and Moore hasn’t been an option for what 6 months. Edwards went to play with showboat because of the relationship with his dad. Edwards did the staff wrong imo.

So I don’t call this class falling apart.

 

[Crazy Balki]

None of this is a guarantee.

That's why you don't get worked up over verbal commitments in spring and summer. None of it means anything. It all supports an industry predicated on people predicting and reporting on the movements of teenaged high school football players. You can't lose or replace something when you never really had it in the first place. It's all a soap opera.

I look at it come February and see where it lands, and I speak from experience coming from a much lower level than Power Five. Predicated on that and not what was supposed to happen in April. Then we see who comes in and can actually contribute. There's potential and there's doing it.

But that's the point. Nothing in recruiting is guaranteed.

But you have to recruit based on contingencies. Sure, a 5-star may end up fizzling out, but he is more likely to be a stud in college than a fringe top 500 3-star project. This is why you need to load up on talent.

It's even more crucial at ND, where they seem reluctant to rely on the portal to plug holes. Where a school like Alabama can use the portal to plug holes that occur as attrition sets in, ND appears far more hampered to utilize that as a contingency. Thus, it's far more important that ND hits on their recruits and if you're missing out on top level talent because you won't play the NIL game more than you currently are, you're setting your coaches up for failure.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Keely has been de-committed for a while now and Moore hasn’t been an option for what 6 months. Edwards went to play with showboat because of the relationship with his dad. Edwards did the staff wrong imo.

So I don’t call this class falling apart.

I never said the class is falling apart.

Just that this class is currently setting up for a disappointing finish. One we can't really afford to given the state of the CFB landscape.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

But that's the point. Nothing in recruiting is guaranteed.

But you have to recruit based on contingencies. Sure, a 5-star may end up fizzling out, but he is more likely to be a stud in college than a fringe top 500 3-star project. This is why you need to load up on talent.

It's even more crucial at ND, where they seem reluctant to rely on the portal to plug holes. Where a school like Alabama can use the portal to plug holes that occur as attrition sets in, ND appears far more hampered to utilize that as a contingency. Thus, it's far more important that ND hits on their recruits and if you're missing out on top level talent because you won't play the NIL game more than you currently are, you're setting your coaches up for failure.

They still have over 20 some odd guys committed and many of them have been for months, having never wavered. Keep in mind we have a first time HC going through is first ever cycle as a first time HC. He's got a young OC and when it comes to his recruiting acumen and experience I'm not even going to entertain starting to relitigate that shit here. It's documented ad nauseum. Al Golden has been out of college ball for a while and returns to a situation with multiple moving parts with ND as it is and the landscape of the sport undergoing dramatic change.

Five star, four star, whatever. You get a verbal commitment you're probably needing to recruit that guy even harder to stay in than you are the guy that is undecided with an offer. They did the work and played the game to an extent but it ultimately sounds like these guys were never really committed in the first place. If they chose to do things a certain way, so be it, but you'd better be sure when so many schools are out there being able to turn heads so easily. Do you have a guy who is done looking or is his head going to get turned?

I am not going to be disappointed with whatever they wind up with. I don't bother dwelling on who didn't come in. I see what did come in and go from there.

 

[Crazy Balki]

They still have over 20 some odd guys committed and many of them have been for months, having never wavered. Keep in mind we have a first time HC going through is first ever cycle as a first time HC. He's got a young OC and when it comes to his recruiting acumen and experience I'm not even going to entertain starting to relitigate that shit here. It's documented ad nauseum. Al Golden has been out of college ball for a while and returns to a situation with multiple moving parts with ND as it is and the landscape of the sport undergoing dramatic change.

Five star, four star, whatever. You get a verbal commitment you're probably needing to recruit that guy even harder to stay in than you are the guy that is undecided with an offer. They did the work and played the game to an extent but it ultimately sounds like these guys were never really committed in the first place. If they chose to do things a certain way, so be it, but you'd better be sure when so many schools are out there being able to turn heads so easily. Do you have a guy who is done looking or is his head going to get turned?

I am not going to be disappointed with whatever they wind up with. I don't bother dwelling on who didn't come in. I see what did come in and go from there.

The problem is that MF came in with a ton of hype and had the recruiting machine rolling.

ND isn't losing these recruits because of MF or him being a first year head coach.

Some of them are getting cold feet and are being pulled to stay close to home. Others are having guaranteed NIL deals shoved in their faces. Some of them both.

But the harsh reality is that if ND wants to put themselves in the best position to compete for titles, they need to land a few Bowen-level talents. If they're not getting them, it makes the climb up the mountain that much harder.

It's easy to say to not bother dwelling on who didn't come, but that's exactly what we've done the last few times we've been up against the best teams. It was the lack of top end talent that did us in against Clemson and Alabama. The names may change, but the hurdle remains the same. Top end talent will continue to thin the margin for error.

And the issue is that Freeman can't really do much about it without the school getting their heads out of their asses and helping him out by being more receptive to NIL considerations. It won't guarantee them every 5-star player, but you stand a much better chance of landing the Keeley's and Moore's who are legitimately interested but are hung up by that one major snag.

 

[stlnd01]

The class isn't "falling apart," that's ridiculous. We lost Edwards and maybe Limar late. We added Minchey and Hillman and the kid from Texas. Bowen is TBD, but we all knew that'd be a dogfight. This will be one of the strongest classes we've had since Weis.

The only thing I'm a little disappointed in is that we don't seem to have been in the mix for any elite kids who decided late in the cycle. No real traction with guys like M'Pemba or Harbor or Okunlola who gave us a look or might have been a fit based on their high school that could have juiced our class here at the end. Maybe that's b/c our season was a bit disappointing. More likely those guys are shopping for NIL and we don't play that. Either way, would've been fun. But big picture I think building a class early is a better move. As long as you can keep them.

 

[MacIrish75]

We could solve this problem if every single
Catholic parish across the nation would earmark one second collection a month for NIL.

Each incoming player gets paired with a parish and then money goes directly to them. Don’t even use the university as a middle man. In return, players assist at parish functions.

Need help at your fall bazaar? Need some hands battering fish on Fridays during Lent? Look no further than the player you’ve “sponsored.”

Peyton Bowen—sponsored by St. Charles Borromeo parish—print it in all the programs and on the Jumbotron. It’s genius.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

The problem is that MF came in with a ton of hype and had the recruiting machine rolling.

ND isn't losing these recruits because of MF or him being a first year head coach.

Some of them are getting cold feet and are being pulled to stay close to home. Others are having guaranteed NIL deals shoved in their faces. Some of them both.

But the harsh reality is that if ND wants to put themselves in the best position to compete for titles, they need to land a few Bowen-level talents. If they're not getting them, it makes the climb up the mountain that much harder.

It's easy to say to not bother dwelling on who didn't come, but that's exactly what we've done the last few times we've been up against the best teams. It was the lack of top end talent that did us in against Clemson and Alabama. The names may change, but the hurdle remains the same. Top end talent will continue to thin the margin for error.

And the issue is that Freeman can't really do much about it without the school getting their heads out of their asses and helping him out by being more receptive to NIL considerations. It won't guarantee them every 5-star player, but you stand a much better chance of landing the Keeley's and Moore's who are legitimately interested but are hung up by that one major snag.

I look at a dude like Ahmad Gardner. Mickens found him and brought him to Cincinnati. Freeman and Mickens played a part in his development. Gardner is already one of the top corners in The League.

Weis and Kelly struggled with getting those five star guys because even before NIL there was always someone out there who could offer more. Weather, easier classes, path to the NFL, whatever. The landscape has obviously changed but what has also changed is that we now have a staff that is a bit more program CEO competent than Weis but is more recruiting competent than Kelly. The path to a championship is about to get longer with a 12 team playoff. Build depth and cohesiveness on the roster.

For the five star guys you miss, you've got to find a 3 or 4 that becomes your Sauce Gardner. Above all, keep the QB and WR rooms stocked.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I look at a dude like Ahmad Gardner. Mickens found him and brought him to Cincinnati. Freeman and Mickens played a part in his development. Gardner is already one of the top corners in The League.

Weis and Kelly struggled with getting those five star guys because even before NIL there was always someone out there who could offer more. Weather, easier classes, path to the NFL, whatever. The landscape has obviously changed but what has also changed is that we now have a staff that is a bit more program CEO competent than Weis but is more recruiting competent than Kelly. The path to a championship is about to get longer with a 12 team playoff. Build depth and cohesiveness on the roster.

For the five star guys you miss, you've got to find a 3 or 4 that becomes your Sauce Gardner. Above all, keep the QB and WR rooms stocked.

That's great.

For every Sauce Gardner, there's a JoJo Johnson or Jaden Bellamy or several other 3-stars that don't translate.

I'm all for taking projects with upside. But it can't be all ND brings in. ND needs the Bowen caliber players, because while they may not can't-miss, they generally have the highest probability to hit.

Same with DL. I think Armel Mukam can turn into a high level player, but he's extremely raw and has a lot of work to reach that point. Whereas Keeley is a guy who could realistically start week 1, and has a higher probability to be a high level player.

I'm not saying Freeman is wrong. He's approached the situation very well by recruiting contingencies everywhere (minus potentially Vyper, but perhaps you have a few guys in Zinter and Traore depending on how his body develops). But we had a very real chance of adding 3 5-star talents and were screwed over by this school's refusal to adapt to the changing landscape. Those are crucial talents that increase the ceiling of this roster.

 

[NDFAN2008]

I think Michigan has done well the last two years getting lower ranked kids to have huge impacts on their team

 

[StPaul_Irish]

I think Michigan has done well the last two years getting lower ranked kids to have huge impacts on their team

They still suck

 

[Rockin’Irish]

ND just landed Spencer Shrader as a grad transfer kicker from USF.

 

[Bigamejames]

We could solve this problem if every single
Catholic parish across the nation would earmark one second collection a month for NIL.

Each incoming player gets paired with a parish and then money goes directly to them. Don’t even use the university as a middle man. In return, players assist at parish functions.

Need help at your fall bazaar? Need some hands battering fish on Fridays during Lent? Look no further than the player you’ve “sponsored.”

Peyton Bowen—sponsored by St. Charles Borromeo parish—print it in all the programs and on the Jumbotron. It’s genius.

Except the rich parishes are cheap.

 

[ThePiombino]

ND just landed Spencer Shrader as a grad transfer kicker from USF.

Nice to see we're making our presence felt in the portal.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Bigamejames]

Except the rich parishes are cheap.

Except the rich parishes are cheap.

Better yet, have the Catholic Church fund Notre Dame’s NIL. They have no problem paying out Billions of dollars for sexual abuse cases.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Better yet, have the Catholic Church fund Notre Dame’s NIL. They have no problem paying out Billions of dollars for sexual abuse cases.

If you’d like to take shots at the Church, we have a few threads you can check out in the Lep Lounge. Not appropriate here, though.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I was so pumped based on that first post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[1rishftw]

Is this class falling apart right at the finish line?

I think it was just overhyped. Honestly I don't think anyone expected a program with a somewhat inferior NIL base to have a pace rivaling that of the "big three" (Uga, bama, osu IMAO) for as long as ND had. I still think that this class is/ will be one of the best in decades, all things considered.

 

[stlnd01]

This is a fun (if completely unrealistic) exercise, a mock draft of 2023 recruits by P5 teams. We pick 52nd and take Christian Grey. (I guess it's a coincidence that we draft one of our commits but still...). Of our other commits only Bowen and Jagusah make the list, but lots of familiar names here.

We drafted a Class of 2023 recruit to each Power 5 team … and Arch Manning did not go 1st (!)

The best teams in college football typically get the best players. But what if that wasn't the case and there was an actual draft?

theathletic.com

 

[Irish#1]

ND just landed Spencer Shrader as a grad transfer kicker from USF.

Thank God. That's one position I was sweating on. lol

Is he any good?