2021 Master List

[NDIrish88]

Quinn’s gonna make a run at Tristan Leigh. They offered him this morning.

Besides Big Fish, I think he’s the best OL in the class.

Let’s see what ya got Quinn!

Assuming Spindler, Tengwall, Milium/Dellinger are the main OL targets, do you think Quinn recruits over a Milium or Dellinger for Leigh?

 

[Luckylucci]

You're probably just recruiting the best players that want to come as soon as they want to. Also, Reuben Fatheree is still an option and BGI thinks we are more of a player there than most think.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

This question may be better suited for the State of Recruiting 2021 thread, but I don’t think that’s been started up yet. It looks like 2021 is off to an incredible start on offense, with some elite recruits already on board and potentially more on the way.

On the flip side, how are people feeling on the defensive front? We’ve been extending a lot of mid-range 3* stars offers over the past few weeks. Granted the rankings may not be updated to reflect Junior seasons, but it definitely seems like we’re not in the running for as many elite recruits on that side of the ball.

 

[Luckylucci]

This question may be better suited for the State of Recruiting 2021 thread, but I don’t think that’s been started up yet. It looks like 2021 is off to an incredible start on offense, with some elite recruits already on board and potentially more on the way.

On the flip side, how are people feeling on the defensive front? We’ve been extending a lot of mid-range 3* stars offers over the past few weeks. Granted the rankings may not be updated to reflect Junior seasons, but it definitely seems like we’re not in the running for as many elite recruits on that side of the ball.

I think it's very early for rankings and wouldn't base my opinion on that anyways, but I really like who they are offering and recruiting at DB and DL. I think there are some very talented players that aren't getting the proper evaluation. Or at least haven't yet.

I'll never lose faith in Lea to put together a high quality LB group after what he did this year and we have plenty of talent on the roster but I'm a bit puzzled by his approach to LB recruiting this cycle. Seems like we are going big game hunting which isn't bad when you are confident in what you have on the roster but I'd like to see a wider net in the near future.

 

[NDMIA]

I think it's very early for rankings and wouldn't base my opinion on that anyways, but I really like who they are offering and recruiting at DB and DL. I think there are some very talented players that aren't getting the proper evaluation. Or at least haven't yet.

I'll never lose faith in Lea to put together a high quality LB group after what he did this year and we have plenty of talent on the roster but I'm a bit puzzled by his approach to LB recruiting this cycle. Seems like we are going big game hunting which isn't bad when you are confident in what you have on the roster but I'd like to see a wider net in the near future.

Lea has shown the ability to get guys offered during that evaluation period. Maybe he’s big game hunting now and then he’ll get on the road for some in-person evals by April/May. Does seem a bit perplexing to not have more offers out at LBer when they skipped a class and likely need 3 dudes.

 

[NDIrish88]

I think with LBer recruiting it seems like Lea is searching for a pure Buck, which 2021 has very few of. It has good pure Mikes and big Safeties who will end up Rovers. Mondon, Barrett Carter, and Jennings are the ones Lea wants because they are Bucks. Interested to see how it shakes out, but I agree. Big game hunting indeed.

 

[Luckylucci]

Lea has shown the ability to get guys offered during that evaluation period. Maybe he’s big game hunting now and then he’ll get on the road for some in-person evals by April/May. Does seem a bit perplexing to not have more offers out at LBer when they skipped a class and likely need 3 dudes.

He's on the road doing evals. He's been all over the country, coast to coast, and in on visits with all the big time prospects they are after. He just hasn't sent out much in the way of new offers. He's recruiting, just seemingly sitting tight with his position group for now.

I'd also note that they are in on a lot of guys for Rover. All of the 'big' S offers are more than likely Rover offers. So it's really the 2 ILB positions.

 

[NDIrish88]

He's on the road doing evals. He's been all over the country, coast to coast, and in on visits with all the big time prospects they are after. He just hasn't sent out much in the way of new offers. He's recruiting, just seemingly sitting tight with his position group for now.

I'd also note that they are in on a lot of guys for Rover. All of the 'big' S offers are more than likely Rover offers. So it's really the 2 ILB positions.

I think with LBer recruiting it seems like Lea is searching for a pure Buck, which 2021 has very few of. It has good pure Mikes and big Safeties who will end up Rovers. Mondon, Barrett Carter, and Jennings are the ones Lea wants because they are Bucks. Interested to see how it shakes out, but I agree. Big game hunting indeed.

 

[NDdomer2]

I think with LBer recruiting it seems like Lea is searching for a pure Buck, which 2021 has very few of. It has good pure Mikes and big Safeties who will end up Rovers. Mondon, Barrett Carter, and Jennings are the ones Lea wants because they are Bucks. Interested to see how it shakes out, but I agree. Big game hunting indeed.

I think with LBer recruiting it seems like Lea is searching for a pure Buck, which 2021 has very few of. It has good pure Mikes and big Safeties who will end up Rovers. Mondon, Barrett Carter, and Jennings are the ones Lea wants because they are Bucks. Interested to see how it shakes out, but I agree. Big game hunting indeed.

 

[Luckylucci]

So, this is just quick list of guys they've identified up to this point outside the top 300 that seem like quality options.

S/Rover: Jaden Slocum, Justin Walters, Kendal Daniels, Devin Kirkwood, Xamarion Gordon, TMA (MTA's cousin).

CB/DB: Jaylin Smith, Daylan Carnell, Dyson McCutcheon

DL: David Abiara, Joshua Robinson, Keanu Koht, Kechaun Bennett

Keep in mind that a guy like Keanu Koht could probably go almost anywhere he wants and he sits as a 3 star with a national rank of 489.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

I think it's very early for rankings and wouldn't base my opinion on that anyways, but I really like who they are offering and recruiting at DB and DL. I think there are some very talented players that aren't getting the proper evaluation. Or at least haven't yet.

I'll never lose faith in Lea to put together a high quality LB group after what he did this year and we have plenty of talent on the roster but I'm a bit puzzled by his approach to LB recruiting this cycle. Seems like we are going big game hunting which isn't bad when you are confident in what you have on the roster but I'd like to see a wider net in the near future.

I do worry about Lea’s effectiveness as a recruiter given that he’s not long for ND. He’s an absolute miracle worker as an LB coach, but it’s hard to sell that if recruits think you’ll be the Head Coach at Vanderbilt next season.

We’ve gotten burned in recruiting when coaches have one foot out the door (Hiestand and Lyght immediately come to mind). Not that I think Lea will give less than 100% effort in recruiting or coaching, but he seems like the type of person that won’t lie to kids and tell them he’s staying at a school up until the second he signs a contract at a new school (a la Hafley, Schiano, and basically everyone associated with Urban Meyer).

 

[Luckylucci]

I do worry about Lea’s effectiveness as a recruiter given that he’s not long for ND. He’s an absolute miracle worker as an LB coach, but it’s hard to sell that if recruits think you’ll be the Head Coach at Vanderbilt next season.

We’ve gotten burned in recruiting when coaches have one foot out the door (Hiestand and Lyght immediately come to mind). Not that I think Lea will give less than 100% effort in recruiting or coaching, but he seems like the type of person that won’t lie to kids and tell them he’s staying at a school up until the second he signs a contract at a new school (a la Hafley, Schiano, and basically everyone associated with Urban Meyer).

Well, we know it's not an effort deal as I mentioned before he's put on the miles recruiting here recently.

Personally, I think it all comes back to Lea's extreme confidence in the current group on campus. After that, the only way to push the talent of the position group forward is to play the game, right? Gotta wait for the guys like Jennings (already visited campus once) to get further into the process before bringing on other guys. Only have 2 spots.

If I was Lea I'd find a guy like Aidan Hubbard (just an example that comes to mind) that you like and know you can get. I'd offer, recruit, take the commitment whenever prepared to do so and then that gives you some leeway with only needing 1 more spot filled.

 

[NDIrish88]

Well, we know it's not an effort deal as I mentioned before he's put on the miles recruiting here recently.

Personally, I think it all comes back to Lea's extreme confidence in the current group on campus. After that, the only way to push the talent of the position group forward is to play the game, right? Gotta wait for the guys like Jennings (already visited campus once) to get further into the process before bringing on other guys. Only have 2 spots.

If I was Lea I'd find a guy like Aidan Hubbard (just an example that comes to mind) that you like and know you can get. I'd offer, recruit, take the commitment whenever prepared to do so and then that gives you some leeway with only needing 1 more spot filled.

Tyler Mclaurin may be an option too

 

[Luckylucci]

Tyler Mclaurin may be an option too

Indeed. I was just using an example that came to me in the moment I wrote that. There are probably quite a few guys that would fall in that category.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

ESPNU Radio on Sirius 84
Luginbill and McElroy are doing a whole segment on ND recruiting. Interesting stuff.

 

[NDIrish88]

ESPNU Radio on Sirius 84
Luginbill and McElroy are doing a whole segment on ND recruiting. Interesting stuff.

Is it accurate?

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Is it accurate?

Mostly talking about the inherent struggles to recruit at ND. Luginbill's main point is lack of high end DL talent and a QB. Seems fairly accurate though I'd argue the DL talent has taken a huge uptick. They cannot explain why ND can't find a high end QB. They think ND would be right there with the best if they find one.

 

[NDIrish88]

Mostly talking about the inherent struggles to recruit at ND. Luginbill's main point is lack of high end DL talent and a QB. Seems fairly accurate though I'd argue the DL talent has taken a huge uptick. They cannot explain why ND can't find a high end QB. They think ND would be right there with the best if they find one.

So seems inaccurate. Tyler Buchner is on the way and do they forget about Tillery Kareem and Okwara? A holes

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

So seems inaccurate. Tyler Buchner is on the way and do they forget about Tillery Kareem and Okwara? A holes

Luginbill's point made sense. He looked back over the recruiting rankings and most years ND didn't have a DL in the top 5-7 rated players in the class. He did mention Kareem and Okwara in 2016. But his point is the big SEC teams recruit high end DL every year and ND is not quite there.

 

[koonja]

So seems inaccurate. Tyler Buchner is on the way and do they forget about Tillery Kareem and Okwara? A holes

I mean, Buchner's half way through his JR year, I dount they're considering him.

And those DL are great for a program like Wisconsin, but the top 4 programs get 3 of these guys each year.

You're talking about three DL stretching across a 4 year span if IIRC. That's not nearly enough.

I think their analysis was pretty spot on, maybe even lenient since we're also missing the elite skill talent.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

I mean, Buchner's half way through his JR year, I dount they're considering him.

And those DL are great for a program like Wisconsin, but the top 4 programs get 3 of these guys each year.

You're talking about three DL stretching across a 4 year span if IIRC. That's not nearly enough.

I think their analysis was pretty spot on, maybe even lenient since we're also missing the elite skill talent.

We also recently landed Jayson Ademilola, Nana, Foskey, and Jacob Lacey. All those guys were pretty highly regarded by the recruiting services. Botelho, Lamb, and Ekwonu were also projected by some to end up at DE and were pretty highly ranked.

With respect to QB, Wimbush was highly ranked. We would’ve have landed Haskins if Wimbush wasn’t in front of him. Urban Meyer wanted Jurkovec badly. We also would have landed Graham Mertz if we hadn’t gotten screwed by Cade McNamara. Brendon Clarke had a Clemson offer if I recall correctly. Drew Pyne was also considered an elite recruit, but he never grew in High School like coaches probably thought when they took his commitment. In short, QB recruiting is fine from a rankings perspective, we’ve just had some bad luck.

The real issue is Cornerback. We were fortunate to hit on multiple three stars in Love, Pride, and Bracy. That luck isn’t guaranteed to continue. We need to add a dynamite recruiter to the defensive staff because we may need some freshman contributors at CB in the not too distant future.

 

[317Irish]

We also recently landed Jayson Ademilola, Nana, Foskey, and Jacob Lacey. All those guys were pretty highly regarded by the recruiting services. Botelho, Lamb, and Ekwonu were also projected by some to end up at DE and were pretty highly ranked.

With respect to QB, Wimbush was highly ranked. We would’ve have landed Haskins if Wimbush wasn’t in front of him. Urban Meyer wanted Jurkovec badly. We also would have landed Graham Mertz if we hadn’t gotten screwed by Cade McNamara. Brendon Clarke had a Clemson offer if I recall correctly. Drew Pyne was also considered an elite recruit, but he never grew in High School like coaches probably thought when they took his commitment. In short, QB recruiting is fine from a rankings perspective, we’ve just had some bad luck.

The real issue is Cornerback. We were fortunate to hit on multiple three stars in Love, Pride, and Bracy. That luck isn’t guaranteed to continue. We need to add a dynamite recruiter to the defensive staff because we may need some freshman contributors at CB in the not too distant future.

Depth at D line had been a glaring issue until maybe 2 years ago if u want to give us the benefit of the doubt. However, it’s not like we’ve been pumping out D linemen in the first couple rounds of the draft every year even before then. QB has been an issue since like Clausen. Who cares what Wimbush or PJ were ranked or the coulda shoulda beens we have had, we just aren’t getting the ELITE guys at QB or D line and those are what the top teams are riding on to get them to the playoffs. I think that is what the guys were most likely pointing out and I agree that is definitely one formula for success. I think/hope that ND’s recent recruiting adjustments and improvements will give us a different way of competing with the elite in the not too distant future.

 

[NDMIA]

We also recently landed Jayson Ademilola, Nana, Foskey, and Jacob Lacey. All those guys were pretty highly regarded by the recruiting services. Botelho, Lamb, and Ekwonu were also projected by some to end up at DE and were pretty highly ranked.

With respect to QB, Wimbush was highly ranked. We would’ve have landed Haskins if Wimbush wasn’t in front of him. Urban Meyer wanted Jurkovec badly. We also would have landed Graham Mertz if we hadn’t gotten screwed by Cade McNamara. Brendon Clarke had a Clemson offer if I recall correctly. Drew Pyne was also considered an elite recruit, but he never grew in High School like coaches probably thought when they took his commitment. In short, QB recruiting is fine from a rankings perspective, we’ve just had some bad luck.

The real issue is Cornerback. We were fortunate to hit on multiple three stars in Love, Pride, and Bracy. That luck isn’t guaranteed to continue. We need to add a dynamite recruiter to the defensive staff because we may need some freshman contributors at CB in the not too distant future.

Pete Sampson on the II podcast mentioned that DE and CB were the two positions where coaches had the green light to oversign. They always want to bring in as many talented dudes to those position groups as possible. ND has 9 DE’s for the 2020 roster which is perfect and super deep (4 4*’s out of 9 tho). For CB, they’ve got 7-8 guys for next season (I think one of the freshmen starts out at safety but idk who). Of those, Crawford, Rutherford, and Wallace are 4*’s. From a recruiting standpoint, I think QB is fine as long as they keep stacking 4*’s every cycle. I’d like to see them get more realistic NFL 4*’s who have arm strength and are bigger. Their QB room this fall is tiny!!

RB recruiting has stabilized now to very good I believe with Lance Taylor and he’s in competition for 4*’s which is important. TE and OL are not really an issue cause we have more recruited talent from a 247 composite standpoint than Clemson at those positions. WR is pretty dang good lately and I hope Del Alexander continues from Jordan Johnson/Xavier Watts 4-5*’s to Lorenzo Styles/Deon Colzie and further. DT recruiting is as good as it gets right now with 5 out of the last 6 DT commits being 4*’s and Gabriel Rubio will make it 6/7. LBer is where I just trust Clark Lea. He’s picked up 3 4*’s in the last 3 cycles and I’d like to see how he does with a very important class this cycle. Safety is a concern with numbers but the high end talent mirrors that of a big time school with 4 4-5*’s in Houston Griffith, Isaiah Pryor, Litchfield Ajavon and Kyle Hamilton. The safety recruiting this past cycle was nothing short of disappointing. Lathan Ransom was disappointing to lose and the story to it doesn’t sound good. Then there were a whole bunch of guys that were interested and made it to campus like Enzo Jennings, Jordan Morant, Ryan Watts, Makari Paige, RJ Moten, Malcolm Greene, and Christian Gonzalez but unfortunately for whatever reason, ND wasn’t able to close the deal. Idk who that falls on and luckily ND has some really good safeties right now but it was a bad whiff for this class and hopefully 2021 can be better.

 

[BabyIrish]

Depth at D line had been a glaring issue until maybe 2 years ago if u want to give us the benefit of the doubt. However, it’s not like we’ve been pumping out D linemen in the first couple rounds of the draft every year even before then. QB has been an issue since like Clausen. Who cares what Wimbush or PJ were ranked or the coulda shoulda beens we have had, we just aren’t getting the ELITE guys at QB or D line and those are what the top teams are riding on to get them to the playoffs. I think that is what the guys were most likely pointing out and I agree that is definitely one formula for success. I think/hope that ND’s recent recruiting adjustments and improvements will give us a different way of competing with the elite in the not too distant future.

The whole premise of the argument is about landing top-end talent. Wimbush and PJ were highly ranked because of their top-end talent. So their argument doesn't really add up. The main point here is that the points they are making aren't true in the current state of recruting. The last three recuriting cycles we have stacked talent on the d line. We have brought in highly ranked recruits. If anything, they should be pointing our lack of talent in the rb and wr room.

 

[Luckylucci]

Pete Sampson on the II podcast mentioned that DE and CB were the two positions where coaches had the green light to oversign. They always want to bring in as many talented dudes to those position groups as possible. ND has 9 DE’s for the 2020 roster which is perfect and super deep (4 4*’s out of 9 tho). For CB, they’ve got 7-8 guys for next season (I think one of the freshmen starts out at safety but idk who). Of those, Crawford, Rutherford, and Wallace are 4*’s. From a recruiting standpoint, I think QB is fine as long as they keep stacking 4*’s every cycle. I’d like to see them get more realistic NFL 4*’s who have arm strength and are bigger. Their QB room this fall is tiny!!

RB recruiting has stabilized now to very good I believe with Lance Taylor and he’s in competition for 4*’s which is important. TE and OL are not really an issue cause we have more recruited talent from a 247 composite standpoint than Clemson at those positions. WR is pretty dang good lately and I hope Del Alexander continues from Jordan Johnson/Xavier Watts 4-5*’s to Lorenzo Styles/Deon Colzie and further. DT recruiting is as good as it gets right now with 5 out of the last 6 DT commits being 4*’s and Gabriel Rubio will make it 6/7. LBer is where I just trust Clark Lea. He’s picked up 3 4*’s in the last 3 cycles and I’d like to see how he does with a very important class this cycle. Safety is a concern with numbers but the high end talent mirrors that of a big time school with 4 4-5*’s in Houston Griffith, Isaiah Pryor, Litchfield Ajavon and Kyle Hamilton. The safety recruiting this past cycle was nothing short of disappointing. Lathan Ransom was disappointing to lose and the story to it doesn’t sound good. Then there were a whole bunch of guys that were interested and made it to campus like Enzo Jennings, Jordan Morant, Ryan Watts, Makari Paige, RJ Moten, Malcolm Greene, and Christian Gonzalez but unfortunately for whatever reason, ND wasn’t able to close the deal. Idk who that falls on and luckily ND has some really good safeties right now but it was a bad whiff for this class and hopefully 2021 can be better.

I don't think we should be including guys they stopped recruiting on lists of guys they couldn't close on. You can argue whether or not that was the right idea but they hadn't been in contact with Paige in forever. Stopped recruiting Gonzalez after his visit. And wanted Enzo to be more interested in S than CB, which he wasn't. Never heard closure on Moten but I believe he was a guy they were on the fence about so they wanted him to visit but weren't pushing for.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

The whole premise of the argument is about landing top-end talent. Wimbush and PJ were highly ranked because of their top-end talent. So their argument doesn't really add up. The main point here is that the points they are making aren't true in the current state of recruting. The last three recuriting cycles we have stacked talent on the d line. We have brought in highly ranked recruits. If anything, they should be pointing our lack of talent in the rb and wr room.

They are comparing ND to the elite programs across the country, ie "What does ND need to do to get to the Bama, Clemson, Ohio St, LSU level and compete in the playoffs?"

The answer was recruit the DL and find an elite QB. Compare Bama and Clemson's last 3 cycles at DL to ND's. They each have 4 x 5* DL over a 3 year stretch and multiple other 4*s each. We have 0 x 5*s with a few 4*s. Our highest rated guys would be their 6-7th rated guys. This is a GLARING difference in the talent level across the DL. And to be fare, nobody else in the country is that close either. Also, the QB talk was about finding just ONE GUY that actually lives up to the hype. And Luginbill fairly points out he nor his recruiting service was too high on Jurkovec. But the point was finding what is keeping ND from that elite level.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

Depth at D line had been a glaring issue until maybe 2 years ago if u want to give us the benefit of the doubt. However, it’s not like we’ve been pumping out D linemen in the first couple rounds of the draft every year even before then. QB has been an issue since like Clausen. Who cares what Wimbush or PJ were ranked or the coulda shoulda beens we have had, we just aren’t getting the ELITE guys at QB or D line and those are what the top teams are riding on to get them to the playoffs. I think that is what the guys were most likely pointing out and I agree that is definitely one formula for success. I think/hope that ND’s recent recruiting adjustments and improvements will give us a different way of competing with the elite in the not too distant future.

I don’t agree with Luginbill’s diagnosis. Our DL has been championship-caliber two years running and shows no signs of slowing down. Our problem is a lack of depth at CB and a lack of explosive playmakers at the skill positions. Both were exposed in nightmarish fashion against Clemson last year. We’ve taken steps to address the explosiveness issue, not so much the CB issue.

 

[BabyIrish]

They are comparing ND to the elite programs across the country, ie "What does ND need to do to get to the Bama, Clemson, Ohio St, LSU level and compete in the playoffs?"

The answer was recruit the DL and find an elite QB. Compare Bama and Clemson's last 3 cycles at DL to ND's. They each have 4 x 5* DL over a 3 year stretch and multiple other 4*s each. We have 0 x 5*s with a few 4*s. Our highest rated guys would be their 6-7th rated guys. This is a GLARING difference in the talent level across the DL. And to be fare, nobody else in the country is that close either. Also, the QB talk was about finding just ONE GUY that actually lives up to the hype. And Luginbill fairly points out he nor his recruiting service was too high on Jurkovec. But the point was finding what is keeping ND from that elite level.

Was our d line the reason we didn't win a championship in 18 or 19? The answer to me is no. We have the talent at the d line position.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Was our d line the reason we didn't win a championship in 18 or 19? The answer to me is no. We have the talent at the d line position.

I agree with your point here. It wasn't dragging us down but it certainly wasn't dominant against top tier teams either. As opposed to QB or CB or WR or RB which definitely were weaknesses at points across those 2 years. QB is still almost singularly responsible for our level of success moving forward (ie being "good" vs being "great"), nothing groundbreaking here.

 

[NDMIA]

I don't think we should be including guys they stopped recruiting on lists of guys they couldn't close on. You can argue whether or not that was the right idea but they hadn't been in contact with Paige in forever. Stopped recruiting Gonzalez after his visit. And wanted Enzo to be more interested in S than CB, which he wasn't. Never heard closure on Moten but I believe he was a guy they were on the fence about so they wanted him to visit but weren't pushing for.

Apologies for not deciphering the why’s more.

.9381 4* Enzo Jennings
.9294 4* Jordan Morant
.9288 4* Lathan Ransom
.9250 4* Kristian Story
.9216 4* Chris Thompson Jr - OV cancelled
.9208 4* Ryan Watts
.9181 4* RJ Mickens
.9110 4* Makari Paige
.8958 4* Christian Gonzalez
.8958 4* Cameron Martinez

9 4* safeties made it to campus during the 2020 cycle. That’s an incredible job alone by the staff and Terry Joseph. For a ton of different reasons, Enzo wanting to play CB, Story wanting to stay in Alabama, and dropping Gonzalez among a few of those reasons, ND didn’t get a safety to commit during the 2020 cycle. The bottom line is if ND wishes actually to be in that top 5 class ranking they need some of these guys. They’re getting the hard part done which is getting lots of top end talent to come up to South Bend, IN which is difficult to do especially on an unofficial. Hopefully they can close on the guys they want. Last class it really seems like Lathan Ransom was the only guy they really desperately wanted out of the whole group above. It’s just disappointing to see Michigan end up with 3 4* safeties who all made it to ND’s campus or were interested in ND.