2020 Elections

[NorthDakota]

Shhhhhhhh I need to hear what reasonable centrists like Ian Miles Cheong, Andy Ngo, and Clay Travis have to say! Ultra liberal Maggie Haberman is a Dem operative hack!

Lmao seriously, collusion delusion diaper fillers lost there mind about the dossier for years and at a whim are jumping on an article with Rudy Giuliani as the main source. Let Lev Parnas speak.

I mean...Clay Travis would probably fall under the centrist label. I recall him often referencing his time either working for or volunteering for the Al Gore campaign. I dont know much about him politically though, i know he is a free speech enthusiast.

 

[drayer54]

Hunter Biden revelations being censored by Facebook and Twitter should be the most alarming story of the day to everyone. Information control and election steering is in full swing by the liberals in silicon valley.

 

[Irish YJ]

I cant prove a negative so I won try to respond to that. I am unaware of any evidence that indicates Dems wage any more lawsuits than GOP. This seems speculative to me. Im aware of lawsuits on both sides for recounts but not voter rolls. I am very much aware of lawsuits by GOP to purge voter rolls, often removing valid people.

So you're setting the bar that I must prove the Dems wage more lawsuits than the GOP lol... The TX case that you say was to purge voter rolls, was an attempt to investigate, and purge if necessary. The state screwed up in flagging a bunch of people who should not have been flagged, and Trump opened up his big mouth too early and screwed the pooch. The actual review however was not insidious in nature, and dems made every effort to halt the review itself, not a purge. Had the state not fucked up flagging people, the review would have likely continued, and we actually might have some fact and data to talk about. So why did dems put so much effort in stopping the "review"?

There is no indication that Voter ID would reduce voter fraud. Of the 1200 cases in the Heritage database, the majority of those would not be affected by a voter Id law. Also this was addressed at length in the Brennan report.

I can come at this the same way you just did, but saying... There is no indication voter ID wouldn't reduce voter fraud. It's simple common sense. We require ID when we bank, when we buy, when we get a job, when we travel, when we drive, etc. etc.

As far as it being racist... the term seems to be losing its meaning. I am an ID fan BTW. I have seen the arguments for it. I am not really convinced.

4 in 5 Americans support voter ID laws. That's from Gallup, a non-partisan poll. You're right. The term racist has been bastardized. Implying however that a black person is incapable of obtaining an ID, is racist as hell. The irony of the snowflakes in that vid is priceless.

Are the Bowery Boys and Dead Rabbits still operating? Again, show me some evidence its happening. Otherwise its an assertion at best or a conspiracy theory at worst.

Google is your friend. It's widely known and accepted. Know your basic US history Cack. From the second half the 1800s through the first half of the 1900s, NY and especially the Tammany Hall period, was ripe with voter fraud. WSJ, NYT, and every NY pub has articles about it. History.com IIRC has a good piece on that era. Pretty sure that in several election cycles during that period, they had more votes than people that lived in NYC lol. And yes, funny enough the Dead Rabbits did play a part. They weren't a fictitious creation. They were actually employed William Tweed, who is also portrayed in the movie. Brennan actually discusses Tammany Hall.

And Chicago is also just as infamous early 1900s and all the way through the the 60s and 80s. It's accepted fact and just part of the history. Even current officials agree is was bad, but say it simply doesn't exist now. Poof, gone.
Here's an article from a far left pub I actually enjoyed
https://blockclubchicago.org/2018/1...the-history-is-even-crazier-than-youve-heard/

Bruhv I linked this database and a rebuttal to it above. lol. 1200 cases ion 40 years.... come on...

So my premise is that election fraud is hard to detect to lax requirements in the first place (which is why 80% of Americans support voter ID laws), dems fight any investigation into election fraud or voter roles making it even harder to detect, and yet there were still plenty of convictions. How many convictions do you need? There were 8 alone this year in Cali this year which had to be hard as hell to prosecute? And you know as well as I do, if there's a way to "get over" on something, people will take advantage. The "rebuttal" leaves out common sense things like 1) there's more convictions lately than in the in the past, 2) prosecuting in the past was likely much harder (paper ballots), 3) American history shows us it happened through well into the mid 1900s, but all of sudden disappeared, lol, come on. etc., etc. etc.

In other words libtards cant be right so I am going to ignore everything they say even if it does have multiple studies and multiple lines of evidence coming to one distinct conclusion. I'll be honest, after all my time here I am genuinely curious what would you call a non-biased study or source. It seems no matter how valid, apposite or thorough, it has even a hint of left of center you discount it immediately.

I could go line by line through the sources and pick them apart, but that wouldn't impact your views.

Here's the dem approach.

1. Admit it happened back in the day, but act like it just disappeared on it's own.
2. Make it as hard as possible to prove (no ID laws).
3. Make it racist if you even try to require proof
3. Make it as hard as possible to investigate (we'll sue you if you try)
4. Even though it's hard to prove, and hard to investigate, when it is uncovered, act like it's such a small thing it doesn't matter.

lol... Next thing we'll see, are naturalization mills like in the Tammany days. But you deny history, so never mind... lol

 

[Irish YJ]

This is incredibly rich, and said without any irony. Chefs kiss.

Go check out all the follow up that's being done on the story as we speak. When Billy Barr gets out of his hideout (isn't it weird we haven't heard from him in awhile???) I wonder whether he's going to go stand with his department or against it to satisfy Don lol.

Trey Gowdy, is that you?

Plenty of irony.

So tell me, what are all the follow up reports telling you laddie. If it the NYMAG headline suggesting the emails are fakes because they don't have meta data lol.... come on.

Like I said, if they're fakes, they can be easily debunked. I doubt NYP would run something they could easily check out.

 

[NEIIrish]

I see that Twitter has removed any and all links to the NYP story and is classified it as unverified fake news.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Things that are sketchy in NYP story on Hunter Biden - why wasn’t this in Ron Johnson report if it’s been in possession for awhile? When did Giuliani acquire it? Giuliani has been everywhere on the but this has been kicking around since late last year and unreleased till now?</p>— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) <a href="https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1316364878924447746?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 14, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This information is not to be processed by you, you are to carry the water pleab.

 

[Irish YJ]

There is no indication the information provided on the lap top is legit. The Treasury Department has listed this guy as a Russian disinformation Agent

Here is RG with him in December

So, there is also no indication that the info on the laptop is not legit either... Is there?

What does that guy have to do with this story. I don't understand the relationship? Or is this just an attempt to say "look over hear who Rudy met with before"? Hey, I can do that too, and I'll use the PDF link you provided.

Look over here at the Senate report.

Andrii Telizhenko, the Democrats’ personification of Russian disinformation, met with Obama administration officials, including Elisabeth Zentos, a member of Obama’s National Security Council, at least 10 times. A Democrat lobbying firm, Blue Star Strategies, contracted with Telizhenko from 2016 to 2017 and continued to request his assistance as recent as the summer of 2019. A recent news article detailed other extensive contacts between Telizhenko and Obama administration officials.

What's Obama's admin, and a dem lobbying firm doing meeting a Russian disinformation agent?

 

[TorontoGold]

Hunter Biden revelations being censored by Facebook and Twitter should be the most alarming story of the day to everyone. Information control and election steering is in full swing by the liberals in silicon valley.

I'm still waiting for your explanation on that the long lines are caused by people voting "often" and why someone would wait in an hours long line to vote again.

 

[ACamp1900]

Mods: as long as no one uses the word, ‘preference’ in here we should be good,....

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Unfortunately the burden of proof falls on those making claims.

 

[IrishLax]

There is no indication the information provided on the lap top is legit. The Treasury Department has listed this guy as a Russian disinformation Agent

Here is RG with him in December

It cannot be emphasized enough that what was released was not actual emails, but image files where you cannot verify their authenticity. With actual emails you can check the metadata. They might be authentic, they might not, but what they ran with for the story is certainly not verified information.

 

[IrishLax]

You're kind of singing the Dem narrative here. The whole story has changed like 5 times. First they said there was no investigation into Burisma. Then documents came out that there was an investigation into Burisma. Then the story was yes, there was an investigation, but Shokin never investigated them even though he said he was. Then the gov gave proof that Zlochevsky tried to bribe gov officials to end the investigation and unfreeze assets. Then the story was "it was just Zlochevsky, not Burisma" lol...

So simple question, if the entire planet wanted Shokin out all this time, why did it take Biden to do it, and why does it happen less than 8 months after Joe meets with Burisma's #3 exec with Hunter... EU could have flexed at any time. Easy peasy. Just coincidence I guess lol. We're finding out more and more, and the stories/excuses keep morphing.

I mean it is well documented and completely indisputable who was pushing for Shokin to be removed and when they were pushing for it. If your hypothetical is "why does the executive branch of the United States government have political influence that others do not" that's just really silly. The question answers itself.

Isn't Joe Biden meeting with a Burisma exec in DC of all places, after he said he had no discussions with Hunter about his work, newsworthy? Come on man. How do you explain that away? At minimum it confirms Joe is big ole sleepy liar.

And the fact the FBI had this (if true), yet it was not reported in the findings, could mean the FBI simply did not share it. Please don't tell me we should trust the FBI lol.

To me, this is the most wild part. If Trump's FBI director actually withheld this information for over a year on this... including through Trump's impeachment on this very topic... that is either truly incomprehensible levels of incompetence or corruption. It is extremely difficult to believe that this would happen. This is not Obama's FBI doing something that works against Trump... he has his own appointed officials in place and the Republicans run the Senate.

I would image we will learn very quickly if the hard drive does exist in FBI possession and what is on it.

It's never been "debunked" as far as I've read. A more accurate description is "it's never been proven".

Again, at minimum, it shows Joe lied and was complicit in selling access via Hunter. An American VP doesn't take a meeting in DC by mistake without knowing who/what/when/why.

Say it with me. Joe lied. And ask yourself, why would Joe lie?

The narrative of "Joe got a prosecutor fired to protect his corrupt son" has been debunked, repeatedly. That was the narrative Trump pushed on Twitter and in the media, and it is veritably false. And I've shared in depth articles on here multiple times on this topic and I'm not going to bother digging them up again.

The prosecutor was soft on corruption and *everyone* wanted a tougher guy in place. And by everyone I mean literally everyone in the West, including numerous Republicans.

As far as Joe Biden ethics, lies, etc. I'm going to wait until literally any of the information today is actually verified before coming to my own judgments and conclusions. I base my opinions on facts and information as objectively as possible. Every single investigation to this point has amounted to nothing on Biden, and even if he "met" this person a lot of other information needs to come to light. It's a hilarious double standard what Trumpers want to hold Joe Biden accountable for so they can vote for Trump with a lighter conscience... consider the people Trump has "met" and the lies he has told about his conflicts of interest and business dealings. Trump routinely claims he "doesn't know" or "hasn't met" people that he obviously has. If people expect a sizable portion of the electorate to give a crap about this but ignore everything swirling around Trump, I think that's unrealistic.

 

[Irish YJ]

Unfortunately the burden of proof falls on those making claims.

1) easily available history proves that the US has a long history of voter fraud, especially in the CHI and NYC areas (avail in NYT, WSJ, NYM, History.com and a CHI link I provided), but poof, it just magically went away on its own.
2) there's readily available proof (gallup) that both whites and non-whites overwhelmingly support voter ID laws, yet dems obstruct any attempt at requirement
3) there's proof in the TX case that dems sued to stop the investigation/review itself, not the purge (easily found via google).
4) even though dems make it almost impossible to prove or investigate, there are still convictions. However they are not enough for you because of lib sources who are also anti-ID, and anti investigate, look at surface data and deem "extremely rare".....

80% not enough including 77% of non whites to get simple voter ID laws that a lot of other countries already have?

Why obstruct reviews or investigations? Dems love investigations so long as it's not about voter fraud... lol

It's a game. We all know it.

 

[Irish YJ]

I mean it is well documented and completely indisputable who was pushing for Shokin to be removed and when they were pushing for it. If your hypothetical is "why does the executive branch of the United States government have political influence that others do not" that's just really silly. The question answers itself.

Sorry man, the EU could have easily flexed and got this done, and corruption in the Ukraine impacts the EU more than the US. As far a $.... EU gives much more, and simply has more flex, and more proximity. Below is the breakdown of $$

The European Union is the largest donor to Ukraine, and Ukraine is the largest recipient of EU macro-financial assistance to any non-EU country. The European Union has given, on average, over $710 million (€650 million) per year to the country since 2014—almost twice as much as the United States average. The European Bank of Reconstruction and Development has given a similar amount ($3.8 billion (€3.5 billion) from 2014 to 2017), much of it taking the form of investments and loans rather than direct grants. Several other EU and NATO countries—most notably Germany, France, Canada, and the United Kingdom—have also given significant sums. Germany contributed a total of $860 million (€786 million) in disbursements between 2014 and 2017 (much of it toward higher education and post-emergency reconstruction), while the United Kingdom provided around $115 million (€105 million), principally in peace-building, conflict prevention, and public-sector policy management assistance. Canada alone disbursed close to $573 million (CAD 760 million) between 2014 and 2016.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/not-c...itary-and-development-assistance-ukraine-2014

To me, this is the most wild part. If Trump's FBI director actually withheld this information for over a year on this... including through Trump's impeachment on this very topic... that is either truly incomprehensible levels of incompetence or corruption. It is extremely difficult to believe that this would happen. This is not Obama's FBI doing something that works against Trump... he has his own appointed officials in place and the Republicans run the Senate.

I would image we will learn very quickly if the hard drive does exist in FBI possession and what is on it.

Wray has been a joke IMO. I didn't really "get" his appointment after Trump fired Comey, who was Obama's nominee. Wray had a history of working with, and for Comey, so it made zero sense for me.

But yes, this would be pretty wild if the FBI had it, and Trump, or the other investigators were unaware. Not that I've trusted the FBI or CIA in the last 20 years, but this would be crazy.

IIRC, the FBI declined to comment, which leads me to believe that they did have it. If they didn't, they could have just said and easy "no, never had it". And if Rud-dog knew the FBI had it since last month, you know Trump has known the FBI has had it that long.

The narrative of "Joe got a prosecutor fired to protect his corrupt son" has been debunked, repeatedly. That was the narrative Trump pushed on Twitter and in the media, and it is veritably false. And I've shared in depth articles on here multiple times on this topic and I'm not going to bother digging them up again.

The prosecutor was soft on corruption and *everyone* wanted a tougher guy in place. And by everyone I mean literally everyone in the West, including numerous Republicans.

Debunked means proven false. To me, there's a lack of evidence, not that anything has been proven false. Even if everyone wanted him out, we don't know what specifically pushed Biden himself to take on the cause. Like I said above, EU had as much or more flex, and had likely more at stake.

As far as Joe Biden ethics, lies, etc. I'm going to wait until literally any of the information today is actually verified before coming to my own judgments and conclusions. I base my opinions on facts and information as objectively as possible. Every single investigation to this point has amounted to nothing on Biden, and even if he "met" this person a lot of other information needs to come to light. It's a hilarious double standard what Trumpers want to hold Joe Biden accountable for so they can vote for Trump with a lighter conscience... consider the people Trump has "met" and the lies he has told about his conflicts of interest and business dealings. Trump routinely claims he "doesn't know" or "hasn't met" people that he obviously has. If people expect a sizable portion of the electorate to give a crap about this but ignore everything swirling around Trump, I think that's unrealistic.

You and I already know where the other stands here. I see both as liars, and I'm not going to buy a Chevy just because it has a few less dings than the Ford lol. Since I already view both as liars, I just find it funny that so many pretend Joe is some "good guy"...

But sorry, if he did meet the guy in DC, he knew exactly what he was doing. I'm sure if true, they will spin it, and I'm sure most of the left will buy it. Regardless, you're right in that it won't change any Dem mind. They'll vote for their liar instead of the other liar. It will however impact INDs, especially those with conservative leanings who just dislike Trump. If both are liars, they'll revert back to their conservative leanings.

I don't think it will take too long to prove, or disprove though. The FBI should have the power to do so either way. If they don't have it, they say they don't have it. If they do have it, they have had almost a year to research. And if the NYP has a copy, looking at mdata isn't rocket science. And if it's not true, you'd expect Joe to come out with fast and furious denial. He hasn't said anything yet lol. Whatever happens, should make the debate next week interesting bahaha

 

[TorontoGold]

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-disinformation-its-a-big-test-for-the-media/

Mother Jones for those that care.

 

[Irish YJ]

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-disinformation-its-a-big-test-for-the-media/

Mother Jones for those that care.

Not sure why all these counter argument pieces pretty much say the same thing.... lol.. Yea, I know why, sorry...


I wish they'd simply say... "well, this could easily and quickly be proven false if false, or true if true". Instead it's more Russia Russia Russia.... and anecdotal spin that has nothing to do with the current claims and potential evidence in question.

Simple fact. The FBI should be able to confirm if it simply has the laptop. If the FBI has the laptop, and the laptop has the email, the FBI should be able to confirm if it's real. The NYP, assuming it had access to the copy, should also be able to.

If the email is real, doesn't mean Biden got Shokin fired because of pay for play, but it does mean Biden lied about a lot.

Hard for me to believe that the NYP would claim the FBI had this if they did not. It's something the FBI could quickly call bull shit and then the NYP and Rudy would look uber dumb. And the FBI certainly has the ability to confirm the validity of the email if its on the laptop.

 

[drayer54]

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...-disinformation-its-a-big-test-for-the-media/

Mother Jones for those that care.

Seems like the Biden folks aren't denying this and that the libs attempt to dismiss this as Russia, Russia, Russia, (because they love that play and the bubble folks still believe Schiff) is complete malarkey.

 

[Irish YJ]

Seems like the Biden folks aren't denying this and that the libs attempt to dismiss this as Russia, Russia, Russia, (because they love that play and the bubble folks still believe Schiff) is complete malarkey.

Could be total crapola, but it is interesting that neither Biden nor the FBI are denying.

 

[TorontoGold]

Seems like the Biden folks aren't denying this and that the libs attempt to dismiss this as Russia, Russia, Russia, (because they love that play and the bubble folks still believe Schiff) is complete malarkey.

I think we're all still waiting for your explanation on how the lineups at the polling stations are actually from people trying to vote "often".

 

[NDVirginia19]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/me...-definition-sexual-preference-barrett-hearing

This is fucking terrifying Orwellian shit. How can anybody reasonable see this orchestrated by the Democrats in the Senate and the liberals in the media and think that it Is okay to change the fucking definition of words in our language in real time like this??? Can anybody on the left look at this and find it defensible?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">ARE. YOU. FUCKING. KIDDING. ME. <a href="https://t.co/rgkwUlgZ7C">pic.twitter.com/rgkwUlgZ7C</a></p>— Sophia (Smollett) Narwitz (@SophNar0747) <a href="https://twitter.com/SophNar0747/status/1316282989450584064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 14, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Irish#1]

It cannot be emphasized enough that what was released was not actual emails, but image files where you cannot verify their authenticity. With actual emails you can check the metadata. They might be authentic, they might not, but what they ran with for the story is certainly not verified information.

Digital pics contain meta data.

 

[Irish#1]

I think we're all still waiting for your explanation on how the lineups at the polling stations are actually from people trying to vote "often".

Okay, the Merry Go Round has stopped. Time to get off.

 

[TorontoGold]

Okay, the Merry Go Round has stopped. Time to get off.

Ya'll held GI41's feet to the fire for the famous Manhattan comment. Just want him to explain the logic.

 

[IrishLax]

Sorry man, the EU could have easily flexed and got this done, and corruption in the Ukraine impacts the EU more than the US. As far a $.... EU gives much more, and simply has more flex, and more proximity. Below is the breakdown of $$

https://www.csis.org/analysis/not-c...itary-and-development-assistance-ukraine-2014

Wray has been a joke IMO. I didn't really "get" his appointment after Trump fired Comey, who was Obama's nominee. Wray had a history of working with, and for Comey, so it made zero sense for me.

But yes, this would be pretty wild if the FBI had it, and Trump, or the other investigators were unaware. Not that I've trusted the FBI or CIA in the last 20 years, but this would be crazy.

IIRC, the FBI declined to comment, which leads me to believe that they did have it. If they didn't, they could have just said and easy "no, never had it". And if Rud-dog knew the FBI had it since last month, you know Trump has known the FBI has had it that long.

Debunked means proven false. To me, there's a lack of evidence, not that anything has been proven false. Even if everyone wanted him out, we don't know what specifically pushed Biden himself to take on the cause. Like I said above, EU had as much or more flex, and had likely more at stake.

You and I already know where the other stands here. I see both as liars, and I'm not going to buy a Chevy just because it has a few less dings than the Ford lol. Since I already view both as liars, I just find it funny that so many pretend Joe is some "good guy"...

But sorry, if he did meet the guy in DC, he knew exactly what he was doing. I'm sure if true, they will spin it, and I'm sure most of the left will buy it. Regardless, you're right in that it won't change any Dem mind. They'll vote for their liar instead of the other liar. It will however impact INDs, especially those with conservative leanings who just dislike Trump. If both are liars, they'll revert back to their conservative leanings.

I don't think it will take too long to prove, or disprove though. The FBI should have the power to do so either way. If they don't have it, they say they don't have it. If they do have it, they have had almost a year to research. And if the NYP has a copy, looking at mdata isn't rocket science. And if it's not true, you'd expect Joe to come out with fast and furious denial. He hasn't said anything yet lol. Whatever happens, should make the debate next week interesting bahaha

I don't have time right now to respond line by line, but the bottom line is that NYP has not released anything that can be used to verify the authenticity of emails.

The New York Post published PDF printouts of several emails allegedly taken from the laptop, but for the “smoking-gun” email, it shows only a photo made the day before the story was posted, according to Thomas Rid. There is no header information, no metadata.

They also haven't gone on record to state they've verified the authenticity themselves, nor is anyone providing access to the alleged hard drive for independent verification.

All of this is extremely fishy, and what we have right now are some image files that can't be verified as legitimate emails. This also comes on the heels of Russia hacking Burisma and the US Intelligence warning that they were going to release forged documents alongside legitimate ones they got in the hacks in October.

US intelligence analysts suspected at least as far back as last month that a mixture of hacked and forged emails from Ukraine's Burisma Holdings might be dumped online as an "October surprise." Russian military-intelligence hackers successfully breached Burisma's servers in January, The Times reported earlier this year.
Wednesday's report said analysts contacted people with knowledge of the hack because they were concerned "the Burisma material would be leaked alongside forged materials in an attempt to hurt" the 2020 Democratic presidential nominee, Joe Biden.

For the story itself, it took less than a day for major holes to be blown in it. There is no record of a meeting with Joe Biden. The Biden campaign says it didn't happen, people who were with Biden on the day in question say it didn't happen, Hunter Biden's rep says it didn't happen. Joe Biden's schedule makes it seemingly impossible to have had any meeting that day. Maybe a handshake in a rope line or other public venue? There's also no Hunter Biden response to the alleged email.

So what we have is completely unverifiable "emails", no evidence of any meeting taking place, no evidence of any policy shift or wrongdoing per Republicans themselves. It is equally likely that this a disinformation campaign than it is that the FBI has had a hard drive since 2019 with authenticated emails and failed to disclose these documents in numerous probes/subpoenas. I'm reserving all judgment until someone can even do the bare minimum of proving the story behind the documents and the documents themselves are legit.

And as much as Hannity & Co. want to repeat the narrative about Shokin being fired to protect Hunter it is 100% debunked. Sorry. It has been fact checked so many times by so many reputable organizations across the world:

More broadly, the New York Post repeats the falsehood, advanced by Trump, that the “elder Biden pressured government officials in Ukraine into firing a prosecutor who was investigating the company.”

We have fact-checked this repeatedly. During President Barack Obama’s second term, Biden was in charge of the Ukraine portfolio, keeping in close touch with the country’s president, Petro Poroshenko. Biden’s brief was to sweet-talk and jawbone Poroshenko into making reforms that Ukraine’s Western benefactors wanted to see as part of Ukraine’s escape from Russia’s orbit. But the Americans saw an obstacle to reform in Viktor Shokin, the top Ukrainian prosecutor, whom the United States viewed as ineffective and beholden to Poroshenko and Ukraine’s corrupt oligarchs. In particular, Shokin had failed to pursue an investigation of the founder of Burisma, Mykola Zlochevsky.

The U.S. Embassy in Kyiv proposed that Biden, during his 2015 visit there, use a pending delivery of $1 billion of loan guarantees as leverage to force reform. Biden addressed the Ukrainian parliament, decrying the “cancer of corruption” in the country and criticizing the prosecutor’s office. During that visit, Biden privately told Poroshenko the loan guarantees would be withheld unless Shokin was replaced. After repeated calls and meetings between the two men over several months, Shokin was removed and the loan guarantees were provided.

Pavlo Klimkin, Ukrainian foreign minister from 2014 until Aug. 29, 2019, said that the firing of Shokin was universally urged by Ukraine’s benefactors. “The demand came not just from the U.S., and not just from Biden,” he said. “I heard it in every meeting with the international financial institutions, especially the IMF and World Bank. It was not just Biden. Clearly.”

Colin H. Kahl, Biden’s national security adviser at the time, told The Fact Checker that “our policy on corruption and Shokin in Ukraine kept getting tougher across 2015, so the whole theory of the case [in the New York Post] makes no sense.”

So to recap:
1. Every NATO-aligned interest wanted Shokin gone because he wasn't tough on corruption and wasn't going after Zlochevsky.
2. The idea to withhold loan guarantees as a carrot to force him out came from the US Embassy in Kyiv. It was not a Biden decision, it was a culmination of US foreign policy that Biden executed well.
3. It was part of broader policy initiatives to move Ukraine out of the sphere of Russian influence and eliminate corruption in the country. There are documents supporting this going back to 2015.

So we have all that context, and we know that Russia hacked Burisma in January and US intelligence officials warned of an October disinformation campaign last month after catching chatter about it. People can draw their own conclusions, but don't act surprised why many are treating this with a heavy dose of skepticism.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I don't have time right now to respond line by line, but the bottom line is that NYP has not released anything that can be used to verify the authenticity of emails.
They also haven't gone on record to state they've verified the authenticity themselves, nor is anyone providing access to the alleged hard drive for independent verification.

All of this is extremely fishy, and what we have right now are some image files that can't be verified as legitimate emails. This also comes on the heels of Russia hacking Burisma and the US Intelligence warning that they were going to release forged documents alongside legitimate ones they got in the hacks in October.

For the story itself, it took less than a day for major holes to be blown in it. There is no record of a meeting with Joe Biden. The Biden campaign says it didn't happen, people who were with Biden on the day in question say it didn't happen, Hunter Biden's rep says it didn't happen. Joe Biden's schedule makes it seemingly impossible to have had any meeting that day. Maybe a handshake in a rope line or other public venue? There's also no Hunter Biden response to the alleged email.

So what we have is completely unverifiable "emails", no evidence of any meeting taking place, no evidence of any policy shift or wrongdoing per Republicans themselves. It is equally likely that this a disinformation campaign than it is that the FBI has had a hard drive since 2019 with authenticated emails and failed to disclose these documents in numerous probes/subpoenas. I'm reserving all judgment until someone can even do the bare minimum of proving the story behind the documents and the documents themselves are legit.

And as much as Hannity & Co. want to repeat the narrative about Shokin being fired to protect Hunter it is 100% debunked. Sorry. It has been fact checked so many times by so many reputable organizations across the world:
So to recap:
1. Every NATO-aligned interest wanted Shokin gone because he wasn't tough on corruption and wasn't going after Zlochevsky.
2. The idea to withhold loan guarantees as a carrot to force him out came from the US Embassy in Kyiv. It was not a Biden decision, it was a culmination of US foreign policy that Biden executed well.
3. It was part of broader policy initiatives to move Ukraine out of the sphere of Russian influence and eliminate corruption in the country. There are documents supporting this going back to 2015.

So we have all that context, and we know that Russia hacked Burisma in January and US intelligence officials warned of an October disinformation campaign last month after catching chatter about it. People can draw their own conclusions, but don't act surprised why many are treating this with a heavy dose of skepticism.

Good post. We also know from the impeachment process the Rudy and others were busy in Ukraine fabricating documents sent to the State Department, and has been working with a known Russian disinformation operatives in Ukraine ( currently known to be doing so in this election and the 2016 election). The US Treasury department has issued a statement to such I posted earlier.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/10/trump-team-welcomed-russian-disinformation-trump-administration-further-confirms/%3foutputType=amp

Trump in the past month retweeted edited audio of a purported 2016 call between then-Vice President Joe Biden and then-Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko. The tweet came after Derkach had previously leaked purported recordings of their conversations. U.S. intelligence had indicated even then that the Derkach-linked effort was part of a Russian disinformation campaign — raising serious questions about Trump’s decision to promote it — but the designation from the Treasury Department now makes Derkach’s ties official

 

[NorthDakota]

I don't have time right now to respond line by line, but the bottom line is that NYP has not released anything that can be used to verify the authenticity of emails.
They also haven't gone on record to state they've verified the authenticity themselves, nor is anyone providing access to the alleged hard drive for independent verification.

All of this is extremely fishy, and what we have right now are some image files that can't be verified as legitimate emails. This also comes on the heels of Russia hacking Burisma and the US Intelligence warning that they were going to release forged documents alongside legitimate ones they got in the hacks in October.

For the story itself, it took less than a day for major holes to be blown in it. There is no record of a meeting with Joe Biden. The Biden campaign says it didn't happen, people who were with Biden on the day in question say it didn't happen, Hunter Biden's rep says it didn't happen. Joe Biden's schedule makes it seemingly impossible to have had any meeting that day. Maybe a handshake in a rope line or other public venue? There's also no Hunter Biden response to the alleged email.

So what we have is completely unverifiable "emails", no evidence of any meeting taking place, no evidence of any policy shift or wrongdoing per Republicans themselves. It is equally likely that this a disinformation campaign than it is that the FBI has had a hard drive since 2019 with authenticated emails and failed to disclose these documents in numerous probes/subpoenas. I'm reserving all judgment until someone can even do the bare minimum of proving the story behind the documents and the documents themselves are legit.

And as much as Hannity & Co. want to repeat the narrative about Shokin being fired to protect Hunter it is 100% debunked. Sorry. It has been fact checked so many times by so many reputable organizations across the world:
So to recap:
1. Every NATO-aligned interest wanted Shokin gone because he wasn't tough on corruption and wasn't going after Zlochevsky.
2. The idea to withhold loan guarantees as a carrot to force him out came from the US Embassy in Kyiv. It was not a Biden decision, it was a culmination of US foreign policy that Biden executed well.
3. It was part of broader policy initiatives to move Ukraine out of the sphere of Russian influence and eliminate corruption in the country. There are documents supporting this going back to 2015.

So we have all that context, and we know that Russia hacked Burisma in January and US intelligence officials warned of an October disinformation campaign last month after catching chatter about it. People can draw their own conclusions, but don't act surprised why many are treating this with a heavy dose of skepticism.

I'm fine with skepticism. It seems a little fishy. I'm going to enjoy it though. Seeing Hunter Biden's entire life get exposed and enjoying the pain it probably causes his dad isn't the most Christian thing, but I am not perfect and at the end of the day its pretty harmless.

I'm much more concerned with the Facebook/Twitter response to it. Oddly enough, it blew up in their face. I suspect they are going to have to either give up their censoring power or subject themselves to regulation.

 

[Irish#1]

Ya'll held GI41's feet to the fire for the famous Manhattan comment. Just want him to explain the logic.

What do you men by Ya'll? You dropped me in the Trumpster gang? I've been pretty critical of him as I have the southpaws!

 

[TorontoGold]

What do you men by Ya'll? You dropped me in the Trumpster gang? I've been pretty critical of him as I have the southpaws!

Oops probably a mistake on my part to use "ya'll" when addressing you. I'll update my notes to take you out of the YJ/Drayer/NorthDakota clan lol

 

[Irish#1]

Oops probably a mistake on my part to use "ya'll" when addressing you. I'll update my notes to take you out of the YJ/Drayer/NorthDakota clan lol

TBH, I do tend to tilt to the right more than the left, but I just realized the U.S. Canadian border is probably the Mason Dixon line to you. Carry on ya'll.

 

[Legacy]

Republicans are rolling out their own, unofficial ballot boxes in California.

The California GOP refuses the SecSt's order to remove them. Preparing for showing how many votes were misdirected and allegations of massive voter fraud?

 

[IrishLax]

Good post. We also know from the impeachment process the Rudy and others were busy in Ukraine fabricating documents sent to the State Department, and has been working with a known Russian disinformation operatives in Ukraine ( currently known to be doing so in this election and the 2016 election). The US Treasury department has issued a statement to such I posted earlier.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/10/trump-team-welcomed-russian-disinformation-trump-administration-further-confirms/%3foutputType=amp

Right. And so it's very possible that all these emails are legit, but that they were planted with this specific intention of being released like this. Or some could be fake, we have no way of knowing. They aren't giving anyone the documents to verify, nor have they corroborated/proven that a meeting took place much less what kind of meeting and who was there.

The one thing that people need to really quit with is what the New York Post, Hannity, et. al. keep repeating about Biden getting Shokin fired to protect his son. It's such a joke that these people are still willing to intentionally mislead people when this has been researched to death and proven to be total crap. This is what Ukranian officials had to say about it:

‘Shokin was not investigating. He didn’t want to investigate Burisma,’ Daria Kaleniuk, of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Action Center, told The Washington Post in July. ‘And Shokin was fired not because he wanted to do that investigation, but quite to the contrary, because he failed that investigation.’

The whole story rings hollow though if you can't point to an action Biden took that was unethical, which is why they keep hammering that narrative. I think it's a smart tactical move to rile up his base and dominate the media cycle, but I don't see it having a bigger impact than that. This isn't the 2016 DNC where the hacked emails showed a rigged primary which torpedoed enthusiasm for Clinton from he base.