2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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Polish Leppy 22

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A college degree does not necessarily make someone smart. No question. He had a 2.59 GPA at Marquette. He left college so he could start running for office. I could see him being considered a DC outsider, but there's no question that he's a career politician.

He's also undermined the Wisconsin K-12 and University systems to the point that teachers are leaving to go to other states and outstanding professors are being poached by other universities. As a career educator, that's why I think he'd be a disaster.

1) I just read yesterday that the Wisconsin public university systems (with Walker) just froze tuition for the next 4 years. Is that another Republican "attack" on education and "middle class" families too?

2) As an educator, you shouldn't have to worry about what Walker or any other candidate would do with education. It's a state issue and the Federal Department of Education shouldn't even exist.
 

pkt77242

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1) I just read yesterday that the Wisconsin public university systems (with Walker) just froze tuition for the next 4 years. Is that another Republican "attack" on education and "middle class" families too?

2) As an educator, you shouldn't have to worry about what Walker or any other candidate would do with education. It's a state issue and the Federal Department of Education shouldn't even exist.
I take it that you didn't read up on the tuition freeze that much. He froze tuition but made it much easier for the school fees to be raised so basically they will increase the fees while keeping tuition the same.
 

ACamp1900

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I take it that you didn't read up on the tuition freeze that much. He froze tuition but made it much easier for the school fees to be raised so basically they will increase the fees while keeping tuition the same.

Yes but tuition and fees were rising steadily long before Walker came around... Amirite??
 

pkt77242

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Now this opinion article bashes Walker

Gov. Walker leaves a wake of damage: Another view

Here is the key part
Wisconsin voters and even legislative Republicans are growing tired of Gov. Walker's divisive policies. The latest Marquette poll found Walker's approval rating has plummeted to 41%. Last week, a dozen Republicans and every Democrat voted against his budget because it was too extreme.

Gov. Walker has shown he will say anything to position himself in the mainstream during election season but then governs as an extremist. Here are just a few examples of Gov. Walker misleading voters:

•In 2009, during his first campaign for governor, Walker pledged to negotiate with state labor unions and then in his words "dropped the bomb" as governor by dismantling collective bargaining.

•In September 2014, Gov. Walker promised that "right-to-work" legislation would not come to his desk in this term of the legislature. Then three months into that term, he signed that bill into law — ramming it through the legislature in a matter of days.

•In a campaign ad in October 2014, Gov. Walker looked into the camera and spoke about leaving the final decision on abortion to a woman and her doctor. He then demanded that Republican legislative leaders deliver an extreme 20-week abortion bill to his desk that included no exceptions for rape or incest — which is what they did this past week.

If he really said those things during campaigning and then backtracked on them, it makes him look pretty bad.
 

GoldenDome

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Article from The Hill, known to be about as non-partisan as it gets on the Scott Walker, lower taxes on the rich economy.
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A closer look at Wisconsin’s economy under Gov. Scott Walker | TheHill

A closer look at Wisconsin’s economy under Gov. Scott Walker
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker is looking for a new job but, unfortunately, so are too many of his constituents.

After running on the promise to create 250,000 new private sector jobs by the end of his first term, Walker didn’t just fail to meet this goal, he failed miserably, creating barely half of his promised amount.

Walker has implemented a failed economic strategy, based on basic and failed Republican economic principals, that has left Wisconsin lagging behind peer states

Even just a glance at economic metrics in Wisconsin tells a story of stifled job growth, ballooning deficits, and a shrinking middle class.

When looking for reasons why Walker may have failed so miserably at creating jobs in Wisconsin, the obvious place to look would be his flagship job creation agency: The Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation (WEDC). WEDC, which Walker chaired, gave out taxpayer-funded loans to hundreds of companies in the hopes of spurring growth. But the jobs Walker promised never materialized. Instead, in an epic display of mismanagement, WEDC lost track of millions of dollars in loans, gave awards to ineligible businesses, and has generally been a poor steward of taxpayers’ money.

In terms of job growth, Wisconsin has consistently trailed the national average. In fact, Wisconsin only saw 1.5 percent private-sector job growth in 2014. Unfortunately for Wisconsinites, while this is the best job creation number Walker has seen throughout his entire time in office, it lags far behind the national growth rate of 2.6 percent.

But none of this should come as a surprise. Instead of fulfilling his promise to create jobs, Walker has chosen to prioritize attacking public workers and teachers. All this did was create a culture of polarization that has divided his state to the core.

How big a failure have Walkernomics been? Just look next door at Democratic Gov. Mark Dayton’s Minnesota, which leads Wisconsin in almost every economic indicator.

In Minnesota, Dayton turned a $5 billion budget deficit into an over $1 billion budget surplus in just one term. By requiring the wealthiest earners to pay their fair share, Minnesota is now in a position to invest more resources into the state’s schools and infrastructure.

In Wisconsin, Walker was unable to take his state out of the red and faced a $2 billion budget deficit. Walker made the decision to cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires, while slashing education funding and refusing to make investments that would benefit middle class families and Wisconsin’s financial wellbeing.

In Minnesota, Dayton has moved forward Democratic policies like increasing the minimum wage, expanding Medicaid, and investing in the middle class, and now we are seen as one of the most business friendly states in the country. Just this year, Forbes ranked Minnesota as the 9th best state for business and careers, 7th in economic climate and 2nd in quality of life. On top of all that, CNBC just ranked Minnesota the country’s top state for business in 2015.

In Wisconsin, Walker refuses to raise the minimum wage and equal pay legislation, rejected federal funds to expand Medicaid, and attacked Wisconsin workers with right to work legislation and anti-collective bargaining policies. As a result, the cost of doing business in Wisconsin is higher than the national average, and median household income in Wisconsin is thousands of dollars less than it is in Minnesota.

While Dayton has clearly reformed Minnesota and put our state on a path to economic prosperity, Walker has reformed Wisconsin for the worse. So if Walker wants to run on a platform of his reforms and economic growth, what exactly does he have to brag about?

Walker and other Republican governors running for president like to say their credentials as a governors make them most qualified to be president. But in reality, those credentials amount to failed job creation, tax cuts for the wealthy, and ballooning deficits. Not so presidential in my opinion.
 

GoldenDome

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Lets also not forget Walker basically begging Kohls to not leave the state by providing government subsidies, thus picking winners and losers for business. He is okay for Kohls to be on welfare, but not people who need it the most. Good job, all the while sinking growth rates and putting teachers jobs in jeopardy. Meanwhile, his political ad runs with blatant lies about him balancing the budget and creating jobs. Minnesota raises taxes on the wealthy, has economic prosperity, budget surplus, government spending programs, and job growth. Under Scott Walker, he is lowering taxes on the rich and corporations, and is begging them to stay with welfare while cutting education and public works programs, all while lagging in economic growth of a low national average.

Not to mention a rookie in foreign policy. No thanks, I'll pass.
 

EddytoNow

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1) I just read yesterday that the Wisconsin public university systems (with Walker) just froze tuition for the next 4 years. Is that another Republican "attack" on education and "middle class" families too?

2) As an educator, you shouldn't have to worry about what Walker or any other candidate would do with education. It's a state issue and the Federal Department of Education shouldn't even exist.

1) Quite frankly freezing tuition without a corresponding increase in state funding is an attack on education. You expect the universities to provide a quality education while not providing a means to pay for increased expenses due to inflation. The net result is that the university will be forced to cut some of its programs or services.

2) Walker's past history is very relevant to the voters of 2016. The guy favors the rich and much like John Syder in Michigan, he guts education forcing lay-offs and the cutting of programs and then wants to act like he has done education a favor. He has done no favors for the middle class or the working poor. Now if your a wealthy Wisconsin businessman, Walker's your guy. His policies are no more than slash and burn while increasing income inequality between wealthiest Americans and the poorest Americans.
 

connor_in

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Saw this chart and thought I would post for discussion sake.


CJ2R0R8UAAAciNW.jpg
 

RDU Irish

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Now this opinion article bashes Walker

Gov. Walker leaves a wake of damage: Another view

Here is the key part
•In 2009, during his first campaign for governor, Walker pledged to negotiate with state labor unions and then in his words "dropped the bomb" as governor by dismantling collective bargaining.

•In September 2014, Gov. Walker promised that "right-to-work" legislation would not come to his desk in this term of the legislature. Then three months into that term, he signed that bill into law — ramming it through the legislature in a matter of days.

•In a campaign ad in October 2014, Gov. Walker looked into the camera and spoke about leaving the final decision on abortion to a woman and her doctor. He then demanded that Republican legislative leaders deliver an extreme 20-week abortion bill to his desk that included no exceptions for rape or incest — which is what they did this past week.

If he really said those things during campaigning and then backtracked on them, it makes him look pretty bad.

1) Negotiations mean both sides compromise in good faith. From day one unions were uncompromising and completely unwilling to give up an inch. They were spoiled for decades with "negotiations" meaning how much we increase, never anything getting cut.

2) I wasn't aware that the governor controlled what the legislature put on his desk? Dumb to promise something you do not control and an obvious dodge of the real question "would you sign this bill" which is always easily dodged with "devil is in the details" - End of the day, you are judging him on actual results and decisions which count for much more than lip service. Pro-union folks would be remiss to vote for Walker, DUH

3) You have 20 weeks to make a decision with your doctor. That bill does not remove the ability to make said decision, just creates a somewhat reasonable time line. I would bump it to at least 24 weeks which is a more reasonable minimum for viability outside the womb. Doesn't seem extreme to me to expect someone to shit or get off the pot in six months. From that point, if you don't want it, put it up for adoption. Some relaxed regulations for supporting mothers putting children up for adoption probably wouldn't even need state funding as adopting parents and churches would probably over-fund the need.
 

pkt77242

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1) Negotiations mean both sides compromise in good faith. From day one unions were uncompromising and completely unwilling to give up an inch. They were spoiled for decades with "negotiations" meaning how much we increase, never anything getting cut.

2) I wasn't aware that the governor controlled what the legislature put on his desk? Dumb to promise something you do not control and an obvious dodge of the real question "would you sign this bill" which is always easily dodged with "devil is in the details" - End of the day, you are judging him on actual results and decisions which count for much more than lip service. Pro-union folks would be remiss to vote for Walker, DUH

3) You have 20 weeks to make a decision with your doctor. That bill does not remove the ability to make said decision, just creates a somewhat reasonable time line. I would bump it to at least 24 weeks which is a more reasonable minimum for viability outside the womb. Doesn't seem extreme to me to expect someone to shit or get off the pot in six months. From that point, if you don't want it, put it up for adoption. Some relaxed regulations for supporting mothers putting children up for adoption probably wouldn't even need state funding as adopting parents and churches would probably over-fund the need.

? I know a few people that are in unions, teachers, and federal workers, and both have been having to do things such as increase their contributions to retirement and other benefits (such as healthcare) for years. How is that not compromising? I can't speak for other unions (such as the auto workers, etc.) but the public employee unions definitely compromise and to say that they never "give" or accept cuts is just plain wrong.
 
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RDU Irish

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_Act_10

Well it means a bit more when someone says we all need to tighten our belt and give half their salary back like Walker did in Milwaukee County. Took on their pension system that was obscene. Do you think he wasn't elected governor to do the same to the state system?

What are these offensive increases you speak of?


Pension - Pay half your contribution versus nothing (half of 5.8% = 2.9%)

Healthcare - Were 6% and they changed it to at least 12.6% of the actual cost of the plan. How offensive, you have to pay 1/8th the cost of your health care instead of 1/17th. Good luck finding that in the private sector.

Elected officials - Modified their pensions to accrue the same as regular employees. How evil to hold politicians to the same standards!

A hundred other things but if you think those changes are horribly offensive you should get some perspective on private sector benefits.


Also, Dems had both sides of the state house and governorship in 2009 and 2010. Real red states never see that happen. Tommy Thompson was also the governor for so long it is hard to claim Republicans really "won" the governor spot for some 14 years he was ridiculously popular. Of the last 11 governors, 6 were Dems, 5 were Rs. Prior to that, 15 of 17 were Republican (one Dem and one Progressive filling the difference).
 

phgreek

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1) Quite frankly freezing tuition without a corresponding increase in state funding is an attack on education. You expect the universities to provide a quality education while not providing a means to pay for increased expenses due to inflation. The net result is that the university will be forced to cut some of its programs or services.

2) Walker's past history is very relevant to the voters of 2016. The guy favors the rich and much like John Syder in Michigan, he guts education forcing lay-offs and the cutting of programs and then wants to act like he has done education a favor. He has done no favors for the middle class or the working poor. Now if your a wealthy Wisconsin businessman, Walker's your guy. His policies are no more than slash and burn while increasing income inequality between wealthiest Americans and the poorest Americans.

as relates to #1, have the cost increases in tuition Merely kept pace with "inflation"? It seems to me, universities generally have done better than inflation for decades. If they aren't ok with a tuition Freeze, some heads need to roll for mismanagement.
 

pkt77242

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_Act_10

Well it means a bit more when someone says we all need to tighten our belt and give half their salary back like Walker did in Milwaukee County. Took on their pension system that was obscene. Do you think he wasn't elected governor to do the same to the state system?

What are these offensive increases you speak of?


Pension - Pay half your contribution versus nothing (half of 5.8% = 2.9%)

Healthcare - Were 6% and they changed it to at least 12.6% of the actual cost of the plan. How offensive, you have to pay 1/8th the cost of your health care instead of 1/17th. Good luck finding that in the private sector.

Elected officials - Modified their pensions to accrue the same as regular employees. How evil to hold politicians to the same standards!

A hundred other things but if you think those changes are horribly offensive you should get some perspective on private sector benefits.


Also, Dems had both sides of the state house and governorship in 2009 and 2010. Real red states never see that happen. Tommy Thompson was also the governor for so long it is hard to claim Republicans really "won" the governor spot for some 14 years he was ridiculously popular. Of the last 11 governors, 6 were Dems, 5 were Rs. Prior to that, 15 of 17 were Republican (one Dem and one Progressive filling the difference).

A couple of things. Most public employees have good benefits because they lack in pay, so that total compensation is similar. So when cutting benefits but not increasing salary, you are hurting the public employees. Most public employees are making the trade off of less pay for better benefits and have done this through collective bargaining but the legislature wiped out the collective bargaining and changed it through legislation.

ETA: If they wanted to lower benefits, then they could have done that through collective bargaining by offering them other things such as an increase in pay.
Also by tighten belt do you mean cutting taxes and causing deficits? Walker has been responsible for about $2 billion worth of tax cuts while in office, and shockingly they keep having to cut spending because of the shortfall of revenue. Surprising. That isn't even getting into the problems with the Economic Development Corporation (WEDC) that he created. Give loans to corporations that made donations to Walker's campaign, check. Give loans to companies about to file for bankruptcy, check. Mismanage the money, check. Have a significant amount of loans that will never be repaid, check.

The thing is that Walker has mismanaged Wisconsin. He cuts spending on education, took away collective bargaining for most state employees (yet exempted firefighters and police officers from it) and yet found the money to cut taxes drastically as well as found a way to waste money on loans, and other bad decisions through the the WEDC.
 
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pkt77242

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One teaching job, 469 applicants

Overworked and underpaid. That is why they can't find anyone to take the jobs I guess.

So? Maybe it is all of the teachers who have been laid off in Wisconsin? I believe in 1 year it was about 1500 teacher jobs lost (about 3400 total education jobs but that included administration and support roles) due to budget cuts. If you are of working age the options are to find another teaching job or to get out of the profession.
 

RDU Irish

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This was from 2010. Granted it was the depths of the recession but I have always heard elementary positions get hundreds of applicants regardless of location and STEM related positions can be hard to fill, particularly rural areas (my father was career superintendent/principal in rural Iowa so I speak with some knowledge).

One history/PE teacher friend in Wisconsin was let go at one point and had a hell of a time finding a job because his experience/education classified him in a pretty good pay scale. Poor bastard couldn't negotiate for less pay and had a few years off work/subbing before he found a much less than ideal situation. Schools weren't going to budget any more than they had to for those positions opting for younger teachers on a lower scale.

But I don't expect you to acknowledge the Catch 22 being created because, you know, its for the kids and no cost should be spared.
 

pkt77242

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This was from 2010. Granted it was the depths of the recession but I have always heard elementary positions get hundreds of applicants regardless of location and STEM related positions can be hard to fill, particularly rural areas (my father was career superintendent/principal in rural Iowa so I speak with some knowledge).

One history/PE teacher friend in Wisconsin was let go at one point and had a hell of a time finding a job because his experience/education classified him in a pretty good pay scale. Poor bastard couldn't negotiate for less pay and had a few years off work/subbing before he found a much less than ideal situation. Schools weren't going to budget any more than they had to for those positions opting for younger teachers on a lower scale.

But I don't expect you to acknowledge the Catch 22 being created because, you know, its for the kids and no cost should be spared.

Also 2010 was before Act 10 was passed.

Look I am not against cuts to the public employees if there is a true need but if Wisconsin can give out $2 Billion in tax cuts and create the WEDC which has been a dumpster fire and pissed away millions of dollars, then I am against it. It doesn't seem that there was a need to cut compensation to public employees, as evidenced by the other laws passed.
 

ACamp1900

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I honestly always wonder who dafaq they poll... has anyone here ever been polled for these things?? I, nor anyone in my life that I am aware of, has ever been polled for any of these things...
 

Polish Leppy 22

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1) Quite frankly freezing tuition without a corresponding increase in state funding is an attack on education. You expect the universities to provide a quality education while not providing a means to pay for increased expenses due to inflation. The net result is that the university will be forced to cut some of its programs or services.

2) Walker's past history is very relevant to the voters of 2016. The guy favors the rich and much like John Syder in Michigan, he guts education forcing lay-offs and the cutting of programs and then wants to act like he has done education a favor. He has done no favors for the middle class or the working poor. Now if your a wealthy Wisconsin businessman, Walker's your guy. His policies are no more than slash and burn while increasing income inequality between wealthiest Americans and the poorest Americans.

1) Inflation is the only reason for tuition exploding over the past 10-15 years? Don't think so. As for certain programs that might have to be cut...let's start with philosophy and art history. I think we'll all be OK.

2) You can make the whiny arguments about "favoring the rich" and "income inequality" all you want. My only point in regards to Walker was that his policies on education should be irrelevant consider the feds have absolutely NO business in education. None.
 
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Buster Bluth

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1) Inflation is the only reason for tuition exploding over the past 10-15 years? Don't think so. As for certain programs that might have to be cut...let's start with philosophy and art history. I think we'll all be OK.

What is it with conservatives' hatred for humanities? It goes hand in hand with assuming every struggling millennial has one of those degrees and borrowed ten million dollars to get it.

2) You can make the whiny arguments about "favoring the rich" and "income inequality" all you want. My only point in regards to Walker was that his policies on education should be irrelevant consider the feds have absolutely NO business in education. None.

God forbid we move to ensure a kid in Mississippi has the same high standards that a kid in Oregon has. In a highly-mobile society, which we have now, one might consider that a good thing. Then there's a part where some areas want to teach creationism. Nah, I think it's okay for the federal government to get involved.
 
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