2016 Fall Camp Thread

[Irish2155]

We have two stud QBs (not counting BW), two more than most teams in the country. Good situation but challenging/tough decision.

My take: They both can absolutely lead this team to their best, no doubt. But my concern is how either one will get in rhythm sharing reps?...that is it (nothing more or less), upsetting the flow of the hot hand. Will be interesting to see how Kelly plays this. If one is rolling really hot, would be hard to pull him.

Personally I've wanted DK to be the starter, but that could be b/c he is what we've seen most/latest. MZ is boss too. I do remember how deflated I was after seeing him going down...not knowing that DK was boss too.

That is why Kelly makes the big bucks. I don't care along as we win 13 - 14 games and hoist that trophy.

Regardless, there is that defense...stop someone, please (Stanford sticks out off the top of my head).

 

[dwshade]

I just think that the demise of our WR corp is being drastically overstated. By all accounts Hunter looks prepared to be the new #1. This will not be the first time that our #1 WR goes from remedial production to big time production in 1 season. Fuller did it from his freshman to sophomore seasons. Nobody thought he was a first round talent after his freshman season. The guy who is not being talked about enough is CJ Sanders. I still contend that he'll be one of the best players on this team with the ball in his hands, kids dynamic. Kelly realizes this, that's why he's working exclusively with the 1's. He's going to have a breakout season, mark it down. ESB is a little bit of a wildcard. I could see him having a Fuller type freshman season where he makes some big plays but isn't consistent. The good news is, we have a collection of guys like Boykin (playing better), Holmes, Claypool, Stepherson, etc. that could contribute.

Keep in mind that in 2014 we came into the year in this exact same spot, with a lot of question marks at WR. Fuller became the #1, Chris Brown/Robinson double teamed the W position, and CJ Prosise was productive out of the slot. Sound familiar. Hunter #1, ESB/Boykin (W), Sanders at slot. That 2014 WR group was good enough to win all the games we played in. Plus, I think we'll have better QB play which will help and the RB group is better.

Couldn't agree more. If you are recruiting well, and we are, then when star players move on to NFL new stars will emerge. We may not have "proven" WR's but they are no doubt talented.

 

[ulukinatme]

We have two stud QBs (not counting BW), two more than most teams in the country. Good situation but challenging/tough decision.

My take: They both can absolutely lead this team to their best, no doubt. But my concern is how either one will get in rhythm sharing reps?...that is it (nothing more or less), upsetting the flow of the hot hand. Will be interesting to see how Kelly plays this. If one is rolling really hot, would be hard to pull him.

Personally I've wanted DK to be the starter, but that could be b/c he is what we've seen most/latest. MZ is boss too. I do remember how deflated I was after seeing him going down...not knowing that DK was boss too.

That is why Kelly makes the big bucks. I don't care along as we win 13 - 14 games and hoist that trophy.

Regardless, there is that defense...stop someone, please (Stanford sticks out off the top of my head).

Some QBs may need to get in a rhythm, but certain not all. Many QBs can come off the bench cold without an issue. It's not a great example, but Tommy was able to do that in 2014 in the Purdue and Stanford games. Kizer only needed a series or two to get going against Virginia. If you know the playbook and you keep in mind you're just one one play away from seeing the field, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Fbolt]

2 QB's that he doesn't want to transfer. Both are capable (more than). He needs to see. By game 3/4-he'll have an idea of who is the starter and BK will go in that direction.

Yoon-not concerned about his "yips" or whatever. Merely small talk about him missing in practice. No biggie (yet).

WR corps is unproven. It'll take time to sort out. BK will rely more on the run and PA pass. Like the QB's, the starters will emerge.

My concern is D. Offense always seems to work itself out but the D only really dominated once, in 2012. Hoping VG has a plan that'll work. Tired of the big name teams running all over ND. VG needs to fix it. Still has spectacular hair tho.

Thx for the blind motion test. Now my stranger is feeling so much more comfortable. My eyes were throwing me off.

 

[Domina Nostra]

My hope, like many of us, is that with the inexperienced WRs, Denbrock, Sanford, and HH convince Kelly that the emphasis has to be put on the running game. Once that gets established, the job of the young WRs will be much easier.

It's almost always better when you run to throw, IMO.

However, running teams often start slow, so patience is required.

 

[IrishBroker]

I get what everyone is saying about how much talent we have at WR....and that's fine. We do.

And we can rely on our running game with our stud Oline and stable of backs.


What concerns me with the WR's are those critical movements in games in which we are either behind and trying to catch up, or a big 3rd and whatever and we need a catch to keep a crucial drive going. Who's that going to come from?

Yes, we have talent...but don't downplay experience in big time CFB. Talent is only one piece.

 

[IrishLion]

On WR, I see it like this.

Significant drop at the #1 (Fuller >> Hunter)

Marginal drop at the #2 (Hunter > ESB? Hunter didn't do much last year).

Slot: Likely a marginal increase, just because Carlisle was nothing at that spot.

"Carlisle was nothing"

This is a trash post, Koon. Be better.

 

[koonja]

"Carlisle was nothing"

This is a trash post, Koon. Be better.

? What was he? Tell me he was a solid slot player.

 

[irishfan]

"Carlisle was nothing"

This is a trash post, Koon. Be better.

He averaged less than 3 catches and 30 yards per game. 1 total TD. 5 carries all year so wasn't involved in any sweeps or anything. He didn't really do much....

 

[ulukinatme]

? What was he? Tell me he was a solid slot player.

He averaged less than 3 catches and 30 yards per game. 1 total TD. 5 carries all year so wasn't involved in any sweeps or anything. He didn't really do much....

Carlisle had 31 receptions, exactly half as many as Fuller at 62. Obviously he didn't compare to Fuller in yards and TDs, but we're talking about one of the best in college football last year and a 1st round draft pick. Still, I find it hard to believe that a receiver with 31 (3rd on team) receptions is "nothing." At the very least he's a decent contributor.

 

[IrishLion]

? What was he? Tell me he was a solid slot player.

He averaged less than 3 catches and 30 yards per game. 1 total TD. 5 carries all year so wasn't involved in any sweeps or anything. He didn't really do much....

He had more catches than Torii, and put up two straight years of reliable play from the slot. If that's "nothing," especially in an offense that doesn't focus on the middle of the field, then idk what to say.

I'm not saying he was great by any stretch, but "nothing" is ridiculous.

 

[irishfan]

I don't think "nothing" is the right word, but he was pretty blatantly just another guy out there IMO. He offered close to the bare minimum of production that a starter should have at that position.

 

[ulukinatme]

I don't think "nothing" is the right word, but he was pretty blatantly just another guy out there IMO. He offered close to the bare minimum of production that a starter should have at that position.

That's all Lion and I were saying really. Felt like a slight to one of our guys who helped the team and did a little more than nothing. I mean, he was good enough to make the Cardinals squad, if you're nothing that's quite an accomplishment.

 

[bluengold4732]

One reason I'm so optimistic for this season(I hope this doesn't come back to bite me in the a$$) is not only the talent we have across the board but also the Coaching. We return the entire staff from last season and although many have their doubts about BVG, as a whole, I believe this will be one the best coached teams in the country. Guys like Denson, Lyght, Gilmore, and Sanford seem to be influencing the team positively and improving themselves as well as their players and getting better together. I enjoy seeing coaches talking about how they have to learn, adapt, and hold themselves accountable not just the players.

 

[koonja]

If 31 catches and 350 yards is decent for the slot, we need to find a spot in the MAC before it's too late. Come on guys, I don't need to defend that he did nothing at the slot. I wasn't slighting him, just calling a spade a spade and moving on. There's no need to call me out on that. Don't worry, I didn't text Carlisle telling he did nothing. Toughen up, this is Notre Dame football.

 

[woolybug25]

If 31 catches and 350 yards is decent for the slot, we need to find a spot in the MAC before it's too late. Come on guys, I don't need to defend that he did nothing at the slot. I wasn't slighting him, just calling a spade a spade and moving on. There's no need to call me out on that. Don't worry, I didn't text Carlisle telling he did nothing. Toughen up, this is Notre Dame football.

Jalin Marshall only had 36 catches for 477 last season, does that suck too? Because he was probably a top ten slot receiver last year. Nobody was saying that Carlisle was Sterling Shepard, but to say he wasn't at least average is completely incorrect. Especially in BK's offense, where he never has star slot receivers. You are probably telling yourself, "what about Gilyard at Cinci?".... Welp... If you look at it, Gilyard did most his damage playing on the outside in a Fuller type capacity.

 

[woolybug25]

He's not going to stand behind you and hold you during your swing....

Then I'm out...

I do football and baseball/softball...

And fix your golf swing...I'm going to guess you are generally within 3-4 of par per 9...

You guessed that because I'm a banker, didn't ya?

 

[irishff1014]

I just think that the demise of our WR corp is being drastically overstated. By all accounts Hunter looks prepared to be the new #1. This will not be the first time that our #1 WR goes from remedial production to big time production in 1 season. Fuller did it from his freshman to sophomore seasons. Nobody thought he was a first round talent after his freshman season. The guy who is not being talked about enough is CJ Sanders. I still contend that he'll be one of the best players on this team with the ball in his hands, kids dynamic. Kelly realizes this, that's why he's working exclusively with the 1's. He's going to have a breakout season, mark it down. ESB is a little bit of a wildcard. I could see him having a Fuller type freshman season where he makes some big plays but isn't consistent. The good news is, we have a collection of guys like Boykin (playing better), Holmes, Claypool, Stepherson, etc. that could contribute.

Keep in mind that in 2014 we came into the year in this exact same spot, with a lot of question marks at WR. Fuller became the #1, Chris Brown/Robinson double teamed the W position, and CJ Prosise was productive out of the slot. Sound familiar. Hunter #1, ESB/Boykin (W), Sanders at slot. That 2014 WR group was good enough to win all the games we played in. Plus, I think we'll have better QB play which will help and the RB group is better.

I agree with you. The only reason i think we could see a lot of issues with the Wr's is depending on how much kelly decides to flip flop the QB.

 

[irishfan]

Jalin Marshall only had 36 catches for 477 last season, does that suck too? Because he was probably a top ten slot receiver last year. Nobody was saying that Carlisle was Sterling Shepard, but to say he wasn't at least average is completely incorrect. Especially in BK's offense, where he never has star slot receivers. You are probably telling yourself, "what about Gilyard at Cinci?".... Welp... If you look at it, Gilyard did most his damage playing on the outside in a Fuller type capacity.

Can we name any play or game Carlisle actually made a difference? He played well that BC game but I only know that by checking his game log. He blended in. He was average at best.

No one is saying he was terrible. But, is anyone going to miss his production? We recruit at a high level. He was average at best. That's fine. I just expect improvement from that position this year.

 

[koonja]

If Carlisle was decent ill stop watching football. He had 1 td last year to Jalin Marshall's 6, and Jalin Marshall wasn't even great. I'm not apologizing for saying he did nothing. I could have had 1 TD as the starting slot out of dumb luck and no one on the defense worrying about me. This really is a non issue that doesn't need to be called out.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

The QB decision. I'm actually glad it went down this way. I didn't want to not get to see either guy play. There no telling how it's going to shake out. I hope that. 1. Doesn't become a distraction and the team embraces it.
2. Both QB's make the best of it and go out and play their best.
3. If one QB is clearly helps us win much better than the other, he becomes the starter.
4. We beat Texas.

GO IRISH

 

[IrishLion]

If Carlisle was decent ill stop watching football. He had 1 td last year to Jalin Marshall's 6, and Jalin Marshall wasn't even great. I'm not apologizing for saying he did nothing. I could have had 1 TD as the starting slot out of dumb luck and no one on the defense worrying about me. This really is a non issue that doesn't need to be called out.

Carlisle was a reliable slot receiver on a team that didn't feature the position very much in '15. Considering the lack of focus on the position, and the presence of Fuller on the outside, I'd say Amir did a little more than "nothing."

I understand you are suddenly trying to be IE's Skip Bayless with all of your "ultra realistic" #HotSportsTakes lately, and that you are the only guy around here that takes off his green goggles... but when you make a garbage statement, I'm gonna tell you why it's garbage.

 

[irishfan]

Carlisle was a reliable slot receiver on a team that didn't feature the position very much in '15. Considering the lack of focus on the position, and the presence of Fuller on the outside, I'd say Amir did a little more than "nothing."

I understand you are suddenly trying to be IE's Skip Bayless with all of your "ultra realistic" #HotSportsTakes lately, and that you are the only guy around here that takes off his green goggles... but when you make a garbage statement, I'm gonna tell you why it's garbage.

Were we worried when Toma graduated? They're the same caliber of player. I remember Carlisle having a great game against Michigan in 2014. He was pretty non-existent for 20+ games. I'm happy he has graduated. BK always hesitates to play young guys and I'll be surprised if CJ is as average as Carlisle.

I'll be the first to admit if I miss Carlisle and his below-average play this year, but he averaged less than 3 catches a game so I'll be surprised if I find myself pining for his slot production.

 

[koonja]

Carlisle was a reliable slot receiver on a team that didn't feature the position very much in '15. Considering the lack of focus on the position, and the presence of Fuller on the outside, I'd say Amir did a little more than "nothing."

I understand you are suddenly trying to be IE's Skip Bayless with all of your "ultra realistic" #HotSportsTakes lately, and that you are the only guy around here that takes off his green goggles... but when you make a garbage statement, I'm gonna tell you why it's garbage.

I'm not trying to be anything - I'm shocked that that comment raised a brow from anyone and won't apologize for it or agree he was decent.

Carlisle, as a starting slot WR, accounted for 11% of our receiving yards and 4% of our receiving TDs for 2015. If that's decent I'm an elite poster.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

This is the fall camp thread. With all due respect to everyone including Amir, why the FU$& are we talkin about Amir Carlisle. We just found out we're running a 2 QB system and our starting WDE is in a walking boot. More pressing matters I'd say. (Tongue in cheek). Love the passion around here. Impossible to find ND fans where I live...

 

[IrishLion]

I'm not trying to be anything - I'm shocked that that comment raised a brow from anyone and won't apologize for it or agree he was decent.

Carlisle, as a starting slot WR, accounted for 11% of our receiving yards and 4% of our receiving TDs for 2015. If that's decent I'm an elite poster.

You're certainly some type of poster, that's fo sho.

 

[koonja]

This is the fall camp thread. With all due respect to everyone including Amir, why the FU$& are we talkin about Amir Carlisle. We just found out we're running a 2 QB system and our starting WDE is in a walking boot. More pressing matters I'd say. (Tongue in cheek). Love the passion around here. Impossible to find ND fans where I live...

Because I was comparing expectations from last year's starting 3 receivers to what I expect for this year's starting 3, made a comment how Carlisle did nothing, and someare acting like that's not true and that I wrote it on his future tombstone, lol.

Back to fall camp - Wilfong say practice yesterday and said the 3 most impressive players were ESB, Dexter Williams, and CJ Saunders.

 

[ACamp1900]

...and that you are the only guy around here that takes off his green goggles...

Only guy?

 

[IrishLion]

Because I was comparing expectations from last year's starting 3 receivers to what I expect for this year's starting 3, made a comment how Carlisle did nothing, and someare acting like that's not true and that I wrote it on his future tombstone, lol.

Back to fall camp - Wilfong say practice yesterday and said the 3 most impressive players were ESB, Dexter Williams, and CJ Saunders.

I don't think a guy that accounted for over 300 receiving yards, while sharing a field with Will Fuller and playing in an offense that didn't need to utilize the slot as a focal point, "did nothing."

I'll leave it at that now, as Vancouver has so politely reminded us to refocus.

 

[koonja]

I don't think a guy that accounted for over 300 receiving yards, while sharing a field with Will Fuller and playing in an offense that didn't need to utilize the slot as a focal point, "did nothing."

I'll leave it at that now, as Vancouver has so politely reminded us to refocus.

Yeah so we have different expectations, let's agree to disagree. No need for the drama.