2014 Spring Practice Thread

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Couple of things.

1. I am not sure how one can make a judgement and say that Rochelle hasnt made plays or has shown nothing. ND has shown about 3mins of actual practice in the videos from 6 hours of actual practice and they werent in pads for 4 of those hours. Second point, Rochelle played as a freshman, and you didnt notice him, which is a good thing...aka USC 2011 where they ran down Lynch's throat the entire game. Just bc someone isnt making the play on the ball doesnt mean they arent making the play on the field, and that is most definitely the case in a scheme such as the one Diaco ran. Rochelle getting PT from Game 1 shows that he is talented, bc there was a lot of talent on the Dline from last year. (before the injuries happened)

2. Hounshell isnt physically imposing? I am not sure what you think football players actually look like or are supposed to look like. He also played as a true frosh and did quite well. His shoulder is def a concern, but there is plenty of talent and athleticism there.

3. I agree with you Koon when you say the offense will have to carry the team but I also think the defense will be a lot better than last year. They do have a lot of inexperience on the field, but each guy brings something different to the table. All the pieces fit into the puzzle and compliment each other. ND is going to play mind games on the defensive line and attack. I dont think there will be much straight up the field stuff like Diaco, but tons of stunts/etc. I will guarantee you that ND is better against the run this year than any year under Diaco.

4. Someone mentioned something about Onwualu andTurner, I wouldnt put much stock in that with the roster in turnover right now.

5. Im torn on Trumbetti. He is talented and had a great week at the UnderArmour game, but can he play the run? I see Chase Gardner/AJ Tarpley in him. But that is one thing I will be watching today is his strength. We all know he lives in the weight room, but Im not sure he has the strength needed yet to hold the point of attack.

6. I think the biggest thing here is that this is college football, its not the NFL. Size and speed are somewhat overrated in college. Talent wins the majority of the time in college. Obviously scheme and kids executing that is huge, but having a DEs that arent 300lbs arent a must. 2012 ND was more talented than every team other than Bama and it showed. If it was about how kids look getting off the bus or the roster on paper, ND beats Bama.

Quoting because it was the last post on the last page. Please read this. This isn't radical fandom or needless fear mongering. This is an honest evaluation. Props TP.

 

[IrishLion]

I won't be surprised if he turns out to be great, but everyone seems to love him because he's 280 LBs and from Georgia. That's great, but there were no signs of him being able to win 1 on 1s last year against the OL, and I think I've seen every practice video of the spring and I honestly haven't noticed him.

So will he be great? Maybe, who knows. But I haven't seen him show that he's ready to dominate a 1 on 1 matchups with the quality OL we have on our schedule.

I'm still trying to figure out how you can't give any credit to Rochelle, a guy who played a ton of minutes as a freshman, and yet you think G. Bryant is the greatest thing since sliced bread at RB, though he only had two carries and has shown way less potential than Rochelle in the grand scheme of things thus far.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm still trying to figure out how you can't give any credit to Rochelle, a guy who played a ton of minutes as a freshman, and yet you think G. Bryant is the greatest thing since sliced bread at RB, though he only had two carries and has shown way less potential than Rochelle in the grand scheme of things thus far.

cuz dat belly-button...

 

[Cackalacky]

Couple of things.

1. I am not sure how one can make a judgement and say that Rochelle hasnt made plays or has shown nothing. ND has shown about 3mins of actual practice in the videos from 6 hours of actual practice and they werent in pads for 4 of those hours. Second point, Rochelle played as a freshman, and you didnt notice him, which is a good thing...aka USC 2011 where they ran down Lynch's throat the entire game. Just bc someone isnt making the play on the ball doesnt mean they arent making the play on the field, and that is most definitely the case in a scheme such as the one Diaco ran. Rochelle getting PT from Game 1 shows that he is talented, bc there was a lot of talent on the Dline from last year. (before the injuries happened)

2. Hounshell isnt physically imposing? I am not sure what you think football players actually look like or are supposed to look like. He also played as a true frosh and did quite well. His shoulder is def a concern, but there is plenty of talent and athleticism there.

3. I agree with you Koon when you say the offense will have to carry the team but I also think the defense will be a lot better than last year. They do have a lot of inexperience on the field, but each guy brings something different to the table. All the pieces fit into the puzzle and compliment each other. ND is going to play mind games on the defensive line and attack. I dont think there will be much straight up the field stuff like Diaco, but tons of stunts/etc. I will guarantee you that ND is better against the run this year than any year under Diaco.

4. Someone mentioned something about Onwualu andTurner, I wouldnt put much stock in that with the roster in turnover right now.

5. Im torn on Trumbetti. He is talented and had a great week at the UnderArmour game, but can he play the run? I see Chase Gardner/AJ Tarpley in him. But that is one thing I will be watching today is his strength. We all know he lives in the weight room, but Im not sure he has the strength needed yet to hold the point of attack.

6. I think the biggest thing here is that this is college football, its not the NFL. Size and speed are somewhat overrated in college. Talent wins the majority of the time in college. Obviously scheme and kids executing that is huge, but having a DEs that arent 300lbs arent a must. 2012 ND was more talented than every team other than Bama and it showed. If it was about how kids look getting off the bus or the roster on paper, ND beats Bama.

 

[koonja]

I'm still trying to figure out how you can't give any credit to Rochelle, a guy who played a ton of minutes as a freshman, and yet you think G. Bryant is the greatest thing since sliced bread at RB, though he only had two carries and has shown way less potential than Rochelle in the grand scheme of things thus far.

Well, because comparing young OL/DL to skill position players is apples to oranges, IMO. You have to be very strong and have good size to put up with JR/SR offensive lineman. It's just not comparable, IMO, to skill players who can get by on athleticism the first year or two, and become dominant once the strength is added. This is true for RBs, but even more true for WRs, even cornerbacks.

If you look at impact freshman skill players vs. impact OL/DL, it's not even a comparison at all. OL/DL take longer to make the have the same influence. That is fact (insert exception to rule here _______________).

I don't know Bryant will be great. But all things equal he (as a result of his positiion) comes in more ready to make an impact IMO.

I think Rochell could be very good this year and will definately be good in a year or two, but I'm just not sold like you guys seem to be that he's going to be a baller this year.

And the argument 'well DL don't have to be able to win 1 on 1s' and 'if you don't hear about them it's a good thing' I personally don't buy. True for OL, not for DL, in my opinion. If you fill the DL with 4 guys who cannot consitently beat 1 on 1s or demand a double, that's an issue. You need a couple of havoc wreckers to have a really good front line.

Like I said, maybe they'll be great this year, I'm just not as convinced as you guys. I'm not convinced they'll be terrible, but it's an obvious area for concern to me.

 

[woolybug25]

And the argument 'well DL don't have to be able to win 1 on 1s' and 'if you don't hear about them it's a good thing' I personally don't buy. True for OL, not for DL, in my opinion. If you fill the DL with 4 guys who cannot consitently beat 1 on 1s or demand a double, that's an issue. You need a couple of havoc wreckers to have a really good front line.
.

It seems like you are under some impression that young DLineman are just pass rushers. That wasn't Rohelle's role in his limited playing time. That's what they did with Lynch, but they are very different players. The fact that Rochelle was not a liability in the run game when he got to play (and teams definitely tested him), speaks way more about his ability to break out than if he would have got lucky on a couple blown assignments and got to the QB.

The most difficult part about Rochelle's role (ie Tuitt's role) is gap assignment and not getting pushed out of plays. He has already shown that he can do that. Now he just has to get better at winning 1 on 1's and getting to the second level. He literally has the hardest part of his role down.

 

[ulukinatme]

I'm still trying to figure out how you can't give any credit to Rochelle, a guy who played a ton of minutes as a freshman, and yet you think G. Bryant is the greatest thing since sliced bread at RB, though he only had two carries and has shown way less potential than Rochelle in the grand scheme of things thus far.

It's because the Koon equates player potential to whoever can turn him on the most. Rochelle doesn't get his motor running, hence no credit given.

 

[rtrn2glory]

It's because the Koon equates player potential to whoever can turn him on the most. Rochelle doesn't get his motor running, hence no credit given.

no it's simply how a guy looks with his shirt off...that simple...

 

[IrishLion]

I don't know Bryant will be great. But all things equal he (as a result of his positiion) comes in more ready to make an impact IMO.

Lol. Rochelle already made more of an impact than Bryant bro.

And I'm not trying to downplay Bryant. I think he'll be a stud. But you are severely downplaying how fundamentally sound Rochelle was at most times last year. That's about the best sign to see from a young DL: playing his responsibilities.

 

[koonja]

Lol. Rochelle already made more of an impact than Bryant bro.

You must have missed it, but I made a space for you to insert your exception . Let's not have this argument, because like I said, it's as good as fact that skill position players make bigger impacts EARLY ON than OL/DL in college football.

But for the sake of argument, I give you Tarean Folston.

I only watched each ND game live (and mostly drunk), so if you know more about Rochelle than me or rewatched the games, I will not argue that. All I remember is not noticing him, and I can notice when a DL is being disruptive. Doesn't mean he won't be great, but from what I saw, if he/Okwara/Jones/Ishaq/freshman are going to have to be playmakers on the DL this year, I'm skeptical.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...I think Rochell could be very good this year and will definately be good in a year or two, but I'm just not sold like you guys seem to be that he's going to be a baller this year...

I think everyone's just giving you shit -- this is not that controversial of an opinion.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Couple of things.

1. I am not sure how one can make a judgement and say that Rochelle hasnt made plays or has shown nothing. ND has shown about 3mins of actual practice in the videos from 6 hours of actual practice and they werent in pads for 4 of those hours. Second point, Rochelle played as a freshman, and you didnt notice him, which is a good thing...aka USC 2011 where they ran down Lynch's throat the entire game. Just bc someone isnt making the play on the ball doesnt mean they arent making the play on the field, and that is most definitely the case in a scheme such as the one Diaco ran. Rochelle getting PT from Game 1 shows that he is talented, bc there was a lot of talent on the Dline from last year. (before the injuries happened)

2. Hounshell isnt physically imposing? I am not sure what you think football players actually look like or are supposed to look like. He also played as a true frosh and did quite well. His shoulder is def a concern, but there is plenty of talent and athleticism there.

3. I agree with you Koon when you say the offense will have to carry the team but I also think the defense will be a lot better than last year. They do have a lot of inexperience on the field, but each guy brings something different to the table. All the pieces fit into the puzzle and compliment each other. ND is going to play mind games on the defensive line and attack. I dont think there will be much straight up the field stuff like Diaco, but tons of stunts/etc. I will guarantee you that ND is better against the run this year than any year under Diaco.

4. Someone mentioned something about Onwualu andTurner, I wouldnt put much stock in that with the roster in turnover right now.

5. Im torn on Trumbetti. He is talented and had a great week at the UnderArmour game, but can he play the run? I see Chase Gardner/AJ Tarpley in him. But that is one thing I will be watching today is his strength. We all know he lives in the weight room, but Im not sure he has the strength needed yet to hold the point of attack.

6. I think the biggest thing here is that this is college football, its not the NFL. Size and speed are somewhat overrated in college. Talent wins the majority of the time in college. Obviously scheme and kids executing that is huge, but having a DEs that arent 300lbs arent a must. 2012 ND was more talented than every team other than Bama and it showed. If it was about how kids look getting off the bus or the roster on paper, ND beats Bama.

This is far from just directed at you. I didn't say anything the first five times I saw it, long before you entered into the conversation.

When I was a young pup, (on this site), I was just fileted once when I used a double "ss," for Weis. And I may have used a "w" for Clausen. And one may have been spelling check, I cannot even remember any more. But his name is R-o-c-h-e-l-l. There is no e at the end.

What I do is enter the names in my spell checker, and with the first letter as a capital, it doesn't "eff" thinks up by over suggesting things. It may help. That way you never get spelling checker mis-suggesting things, either. Irregardless . . .

Your point about Lynch separates the commentary from the people who don't know football, from the people who do. Thank you so much!

I always though Hounshell was a bitch, so thank you very much! And thank you for not putting a "d" in his name! (I have done that.)

Thank you for your point about run stopping. Considering how many run oriented teams we play . . . And I maintain that we will not be able to compare the actual defensive performance this year against last because the whole strategy is different. We don't have to put all the weight on the defense to come through. No more bend but don't break. Everything will look different, especially stats.

I don't understand your point 4.

Good question about Trumbetti; that is it then!

Number six is golden. Thanks! And how is Hounshell? Healthy?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I think everyone's just giving you shit -- this is not that controversial of an opinion.

Not everyone. Only the guys with small brains and small dicks.

 

[IrishLion]

You must have missed it, but I made a space for you to insert your exception

How is that an "exception"? You said you thought Bryant is ready to make an impact earlier than Rochelle... but that's simply not true, because Rochelle has already made an impact lol. Bryant hasn't.

 

[Cackalacky]

How is that an "exception"? You said you thought Bryant ready to make an impact earlier than Rochelle... but that's simply not true, because Rochelle has already made an impact lol. Bryant hasn't.

You got the dreaded "".... walk away

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

You must have missed it, but I made a space for you to insert your exception . Let's not have this argument, because like I said, it's as good as fact that skill position players make bigger impacts EARLY ON than OL/DL in college football.

But for the sake of argument, I give you Tarean Folston.

I only watched each ND game live (and mostly drunk), so if you know more about Rochell than me or rewatched the games, I will not argue that. All I remember is not noticing him, and I can notice when a DL is being disruptive. Doesn't mean he won't be great, but from what I saw, if he/Okwara/Jones/Ishaq/freshman are going to have to be playmakers on the DL this year, I'm skeptical.

So then it's safe to say that if a player hasn't shown the ability to break out, in your mind they probably won't. Tuitt had similar numbers his first year to Jarron Jones, I went back and looked up those numbers just combat this argument. We rely on a certain number of freshman every year to make plays. We also expect those players who are growing the system to continue to grow and make plays. Tuitt was an after thought when Lynch was here.

Lynch was the world beater and Tuitt had mononucleosis. That's about all I remember from their freshman years. I think it's far more reasonable to predict success of players who earned PT last year amidst some heavy senior numbers. And I would challenge your assertion that skill players factually have an advantage over OL/DL when it comes to playing early. There are usually a few players in every group who can challenge early.

Jarron Jones will be in his 3rd year with the program, similar to Nix when he had his breakout year. Rochell is in his second year with the team. Day is a junior who may finally avoid injury. Springmann and Hounshell are both upper classmen who were earning solid PT before injuries slowed their careers. Ishaq looks like he'll finally be playing the position he was built for and Romeo Okwara is a man child (who I wish would've redshirted his first year). Matuska may earn some time, but I'm willing to bet at least one of the freshman DL makes an impact. Coudl be Cage, Mokwuah, Hayes, Bonner, Williams (my guess would be the first three).

We aren't short on numbers, we are simply short on experience (but Day, Ishaq, Jones, Springmann, Okwara have all played a good portion of snaps).

I'm afraid we are simply going through what every program always goes through: turnover. You lose some players and you develop others.

If Kelly has shown anything, it's that he can develop talent. I don't have fear until we start hearing about injuries to key players. Barring that, we have more than enough talent on our roster to compete. (Hell, we hardly had Nix or Day last year due to injury and Tuitt was slowed and we still weren't terrible with Rees at QB.)

 

[Bogtrotter07]

You got the dreaded "".... walk away

Oh, yeah. It could be catatonic. Don't mess with it. And don't put your tongue on metal outside today!

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I think everyone's just giving you shit -- this is not that controversial of an opinion.

It's only controversial when people forget this is the norm in college football. We can't franchise tag, we are always looking for new contributors and trying to restock the cupboards.

The key to this whole argument, is that some of us believe that we have recruited well enough that Kelly & BVG will find players to make plays. Others believe that if Tuiit and Nix aren't on the front line, we're doomed.

Not everyone. Only the guys with small brains and small dicks.

Speaking for n = 1, you hit it on the head. (not my small penis head, mind you)

 

[koonja]

So then it's safe to say that if a player hasn't shown the ability to break out, in your mind they probably won't. Tuitt had similar numbers his first year to Jarron Jones, I went back and looked up those numbers just combat this argument. We rely on a certain number of freshman every year to make plays. We also expect those players who are growing the system to continue to grow and make plays. Tuitt was an after thought when Lynch was here.

Lynch was the world beater and Tuitt had mononucleosis. That's about all I remember from their freshman years. I think it's far more reasonable to predict success of players who earned PT last year amidst some heavy senior numbers. And I would challenge your assertion that skill players factually have an advantage over OL/DL when it comes to playing early. There are usually a few players in every group who can challenge early.

Jarron Jones will be in his 3rd year with the program, similar to Nix when he had his breakout year. Rochell is in his second year with the team. Day is a junior who may finally avoid injury. Springmann and Hounshell are both upper classmen who were earning solid PT before injuries slowed their careers. Ishaq looks like he'll finally be playing the position he was built for and Romeo Okwara is a man child (who I wish would've redshirted his first year). Matuska may earn some time, but I'm willing to bet at least one of the freshman DL makes an impact. Coudl be Cage, Mokwuah, Hayes, Bonner, Williams (my guess would be the first three).

We aren't short on numbers, we are simply short on experience (but Day, Ishaq, Jones, Springmann, Okwara have all played a good portion of snaps).

I'm afraid we are simply going through what every program always goes through: turnover. You lose some players and you develop others.

If Kelly has shown anything, it's that he can develop talent. I don't have fear until we start hearing about injuries to key players. Barring that, we have more than enough talent on our roster to compete. (Hell, we hardly had Nix or Day last year due to injury and Tuitt was slowed and we still weren't terrible with Rees at QB.)

Not at all. But I'm not convinced they'll be great this year, and to have a solid DL, they're going to have to be players this year.

No offense, but I didn't read further once you used DL numbers to compare Jarron to Tuitt. Just my opinion, but numbers on the DL don't mean anything. Nix had what, 27 tackles this year and 1 sack? He's a first rounder. On the DL, it's less about your numbers and more about how much of a pain in the ass you are for the offense.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Not at all. But I'm not convinced they'll be great this year, and to have a solid DL, they're going to have to be players this year.

No offense, but I didn't read further once you used DL numbers to compare Jarron to Tuitt. Just my opinion, but numbers on the DL don't mean anything. Nix had what, 27 tackles this year and 1 sack? He's a first rounder. On the DL, it's less about your numbers and more about how much of a pain in the ass you are for the offense.

No offense but it appeared it was all about the numbers to you earlier. You said you didn't notice Rochell but most people believe he was assignment sound and gap conscious.

I didn't realize we could use and discard evidence as it fit our agenda. In that case, I'll do better next time I rebuff.

As an aside, shouldn't we be getting updates by now? Or is this an afternoon practice?

 

[koonja]

No offense but it appeared it was all about the numbers to you earlier. You said you didn't notice Rochell but most people believe he was assignment sound and gap conscious.

I didn't realize we could use and discard evidence as it fit our agenda. In that case, I'll do better next time I rebuff.

As an aside, shouldn't we be getting updates by now? Or is this an afternoon practice?

I don't think I've used numbers once on this topic, other to prove they're almost useless, so IDK what you're referring to. If you're referring to the 2nd bold, that has nothing to do with numbers; you can't quantify how bothersome a DL is to the OL/offense when they don't register a stat for doing so/not doing so.

You think he's going to be really good this year, I think it's possible but I'm not convinced. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[IrishLion]

No offense but it appeared it was all about the numbers to you earlier. You said you didn't notice Rochell but most people believe he was assignment sound and gap conscious.

I didn't realize we could use and discard evidence as it fit our agenda. In that case, I'll do better next time I rebuff.

As an aside, shouldn't we be getting updates by now? Or is this an afternoon practice?

New guy bringing the fire!

 

[tko]

What on Earth is going on in here?

 

[Oberon]

I will guarantee you that ND is better against the run this year than any year under Diaco.

Interesting prediction. Based on yards/game on cfbstats.com, our rush defense was 51st in 2010, 47th in 2011, 11th in 2012, and 71st in 2013. Outside of 2012, much worse than I remembered. Yards/carry numbers tell a similar story (16th best in 2012 at 3.47 yds/carry).

Improving on 2012 is unlikely, but landing somewhere inside the top 30, against our schedule, would be fantastic.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Interesting prediction. Based on yards/game on cfbstats.com, our rush defense was 51st in 2010, 47th in 2011, 11th in 2012, and 71st in 2013. Outside of 2012, much worse than I remembered. Yards/carry numbers tell a similar story (16th best in 2012 at 3.47 yds/carry).

Improving on 2012 is unlikely, but landing somewhere inside the top 30, against our schedule, would be fantastic.

Yeah, and there's even less chance we'll improve on 2012 scoring defense, especially redzone scoring defense.

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Christian Lombard (right wrist surgery) and Will Mahone (fractured right foot) will miss the rest of spring practice, <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NotreDame&src=hash">#NotreDame</a> announced.</p>— Andrew Owens (@BGI_AndrewOwens) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_AndrewOwens/statuses/447019106856738816">March 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I don't think I've used numbers once on this topic, other to prove they're almost useless, so IDK what you're referring to. If you're referring to the 2nd bold, that has nothing to do with numbers; you can't quantify how bothersome a DL is to the OL/offense when they don't register a stat for doing so/not doing so.

You think he's going to be really good this year, I think it's possible but I'm not convinced. Let's just agree to disagree.

Very fair. We should revisit midway through the season, I'm willing to admit I was wrong if things don't workout.

 

[rtrn2glory]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Christian Lombard (right wrist surgery) and Will Mahone (fractured right foot) will miss the rest of spring practice, <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NotreDame&src=hash">#NotreDame</a> announced.</p>— Andrew Owens (@BGI_AndrewOwens) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_AndrewOwens/statuses/447019106856738816">March 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

hope it's nothing serious for either, but gotta feel bad for mahone at this point.

 

[Ironman8]

If we were going to have anyone miss spring on the OL, Christian is the guy we could afford to sit out most. Sucks he is going to miss it, but it will give the younger guys a chance to really improve / battle, and he isn't really missing anything he hasn't seen / been through many times before.

Will be interesting to see if Hegarty, Hanratty or a RS Frosh steps up onto the spring first team. Have to assume Hanratty will get first shot, but it could be a big opportunity for Hegarty, Montelus, etc.

 

[rtrn2glory]

If we were going to have anyone miss spring on the OL, Christian is the guy we could afford to sit out most. Sucks he is going to miss it, but it will give the younger guys a chance to really improve / battle, and he isn't really missing anything he hasn't seen / been through many times before.

Will be interesting to see if Hegarty, Hanratty or a RS Frosh steps up onto the spring first team. Have to assume Hanratty will get first shot, but it could be a big opportunity for Hegarty, Montelus, etc.

very good point...actually might help a guy who has a history of being injured to stay out and save a little tread on the tires.