'20 NE WR Xavier Watts (Notre Dame Man)

[Irish8248]

Can we just start a thread of who is actually here in 21 instead of who's out? I dont want this to be true.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Based on what we've seen, it's ridiculous to think that Kelly wouldn't play a guy just because he's young.

He seemed pretty willing to play Michael Mayer over Brock Wright, or Chris Tyree or C'Bo.

It was pretty obvious that Lenzy was hobbled by injury, which explained why we saw so little of him. Austin was out with a broken foot. Keys got hurt early and simply hasn't impressed. Johnson is dealing with off-field issues preventing him from making an impact on the field.

Seems evident that if Watts warranted playing time, he'd be receiving it. He wouldn't have been the first freshman receiver to make an impact, but he has to warrant it.

 

[Irish#1]

Based on what we've seen, it's ridiculous to think that Kelly wouldn't play a guy just because he's young.

He seemed pretty willing to play Michael Mayer over Brock Wright, or Chris Tyree or C'Bo.

It was pretty obvious that Lenzy was hobbled by injury, which explained why we saw so little of him. Austin was out with a broken foot. Keys got hurt early and simply hasn't impressed. Johnson is dealing with off-field issues preventing him from making an impact on the field.

Seems evident that if Watts warranted playing time, he'd be receiving it. He wouldn't have been the first freshman receiver to make an impact, but he has to warrant it.

Please don't let facts get in the way of the "BK refuses to play freshmen" storyline.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Not knowing where he fits I don't know where he who would've played over unless he was a slot?

 

[IrishLion]

Not knowing where he fits I don't know where he who would've played over unless he was a slot?

Even if he were a slot receiver, he would have gotten zero playing time. Avery Davis was impressive whenever they decided to highlight him, but they were using so much 12 and 13 personnel that even he didn't get as much run as he probably should have.

 

[ThePiombino]

Even if he were a slot receiver, he would have gotten zero playing time. Avery Davis was impressive whenever they decided to highlight him, but they were using so much 12 and 13 personnel that even he didn't get as much run as he probably should have.

Tyree and Mayer aside (and I think most would agree that they were the exception), I feel like ND does a really bad job of getting the 2s and 3s a decent about of PT on the offensive side of the ball. Just as an example, do you want to guess how many pass attempts Clark and Pyne have attempted over the past two seasons? Seven. How is that preparing them for the future? And what happens when Book gets injured and misses time? Just gonna throw an il-prepared greenhorn into the lion's den? Too many other programs show that it's possible to get freshman some PT (I'm not saying start or even 2-deep), but over the course of a season (esp one in which there is no loss of eligibility) there is no excuse for not getting people like Watts and Johnson out there for a few meaningful snaps every now and again. Granted, I get this doesn't apply to OL, but literally any other offensive position for sure.

 

[Free Manera]

Tyree and Mayer aside (and I think most would agree that they were the exception), I feel like ND does a really bad job of getting the 2s and 3s a decent about of PT on the offensive side of the ball. Just as an example, do you want to guess how many pass attempts Clark and Pyne have attempted over the past two seasons? Seven. How is that preparing them for the future? And what happens when Book gets injured and misses time? Just gonna throw an il-prepared greenhorn into the lion's den? Too many other programs show that it's possible to get freshman some PT (I'm not saying start or even 2-deep), but over the course of a season (esp one in which there is no loss of eligibility) there is no excuse for not getting people like Watts and Johnson out there for a few meaningful snaps every now and again. Granted, I get this doesn't apply to OL, but literally any other offensive position for sure.

I forget where I heard it, maybe one of the playoff game broadcasts. But either Clemson or Ohio State basically calls talented freshman "playoff guys" because they won't be really ready until then. But they play them here and there throughout the season to get them some time and let them develop. Then by the end of the year they might be able to contribute.

I have no idea if Watts and Johnson fall into that category. They could have looked terrible in practice all year. Just saying elite programs do find ways to get those guys on the field even if they aren't totally ready. Just because they aren't ready Week 1 doesn't mean they can't be ready Week 12 if they get some snaps.

Like you said, you can't include Tyree or Mayer in this, they were actually on the two deep and had to play. It's more about guys that can't shoulder that burden yet but still have something to offer in a limited role.

 

[Dale]

Tyree and Mayer aside (and I think most would agree that they were the exception), I feel like ND does a really bad job of getting the 2s and 3s a decent about of PT on the offensive side of the ball. Just as an example, do you want to guess how many pass attempts Clark and Pyne have attempted over the past two seasons? Seven. How is that preparing them for the future? And what happens when Book gets injured and misses time? Just gonna throw an il-prepared greenhorn into the lion's den? Too many other programs show that it's possible to get freshman some PT (I'm not saying start or even 2-deep), but over the course of a season (esp one in which there is no loss of eligibility) there is no excuse for not getting people like Watts and Johnson out there for a few meaningful snaps every now and again. Granted, I get this doesn't apply to OL, but literally any other offensive position for sure.

When would you like Pyne to have been tossing the rock around to these FR WRs? We had 2 games comfortably leading at half. One, Pitt, they left Book in clearly for HIM to work on the pass game. We aren’t going to be Clemson or Bama putting in the 2s in the 2Q, which becomes a whole other discussion.

 

[IRISHMAN]

PLAY YOUR FUCKING FRESHMEN!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

no kidding. your recruiting them to play football so let them play football, but of course once you get in BKs dog house your not getting out unless you transfer. no way watts would leave ND for Nebraska.

I agree something stinks about this whole thing. paging 6 win season.

 

[NDVirginia19]

ND plays their freshmen when they're good enough to play. Kelly didn't stop Mayer, Lewis, or Tyree from getting a lot of reps out their despite being freshmen. I don't think Kelly had any sort of ardent loyalty to Skowronek that made him give him more PT than Watts. Yeah Alabama and Clemson play their freshmen more than we do, but they have 8+ Mayers and Tyrees every year.

 

[T-Boone]

Yeah Alabama and Clemson play their freshmen more than we do, but they have 8+ Mayers and Tyrees every year.

Bama got Mechie out there a lot as a freshman and he was not even top 200 as far as I can see. I think they see playing them early as an important part of development.
Kelly has arguably too higher level of where you get his trust and he does not apply it as much to the elderly.

 

[Dale]

Bama got Mechie out there a lot as a freshman and he was not even top 200 as far as I can see. I think they see playing them early as an important part of development.
Kelly has arguably too higher level of where you get his trust and he does not apply it as much to the elderly.

4 catches and only 1 in a SEC game.

 

[T-Boone]

4 catches and only 1 in a SEC game.

That is as many as our last freshman WR to have made a catch got. Kevin Austin 3 years ago. If JJ got 4 catches this year I would have cried with excitement.

Also that was in a year he was competing for catches with 4 of the best in the universe. How did Bama not win last year?

 

[NDRock]

I do think it’s important to keep these guys involved and invested in the program. It’s a big transition for most of these kids and they’re typically from out of state. Couple all the normal freshman problems with never seeing the field and you’ll inevitably see more unhappy kids. Which means more transfers. With the new rules, kids will bail at a much higher rate. Whether they’ve “earned” it or not, it’s a good idea to get them some reps. Heck, we blew out enough teams to get everyone some game action this year.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Bama got Mechie out there a lot as a freshman and he was not even top 200 as far as I can see. I think they see playing them early as an important part of development.
Kelly has arguably too higher level of where you get his trust and he does not apply it as much to the elderly.

Alabama was blowing out teams a lot more often than we were, so more time to get kids out. Austin had more receptions as a freshman than Metchie had.

Metchie also seems to have come along more easily than Johnson. As others have attested, he's clearly dealing with non-football issues that are keeping him from contributing.

 

[NDBoiler]

4 catches and only 1 in a SEC game.

??

https://www.espn.com/college-footba.../table/receiving/sort/receivingYards/dir/desc

The kid had 47/835/6 TD this year and was 4Th in the SEC in receiving.

 

[NDRock]

??

https://www.espn.com/college-footba.../table/receiving/sort/receivingYards/dir/desc

The kid had 47/835/6 TD this year and was 4Th in the SEC in receiving.

Assume he was giving his freshman stats. Wasn’t he a sophomore this year?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Wait, there are people suggesting that we have to force play our 3 star Frosh WRs now out of fear that they'll transfer?

Lol

If they're not good enough to play (physically, mentally, or academically) they can either wait and compete, or leave. Let players hold coaches hostage isn't the answer lol

 

[IrishLax]

Wait, there are people suggesting that we have to force play our 3 star Frosh WRs now out of fear that they'll transfer?

Lol

If they're not good enough to play (physically, mentally, or academically) they can either wait and compete, or leave. Let players hold coaches hostage isn't the answer lol

This.

And fellas, it’s very rare that coaches actually end up in a Justin Fields situation where they play the veteran over the more talented younger guy *who is ready to play* for experience’s sake and cause a very good player to transfer. Most of the time if a guy transfers out after 1 year there is some bigger issue. There should not be an expectation from any freshmen that they will just immediately get PT because frankly that doesn’t happen at any top program unless there is a specific reason (e.g. Mayer being a beast).

 

[benneboy]

Wait, there are people suggesting that we have to force play our 3 star Frosh WRs now out of fear that they'll transfer?

Lol

If they're not good enough to play (physically, mentally, or academically) they can either wait and compete, or leave. Let players hold coaches hostage isn't the answer lol

It's total non-sense and just fans looking for someone else to blame besides the player if they end up transferring. Go look up Will Fullers freshman year. It's very similar to the years Metchie or current heisman trophy winner Devonta Smith put up.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

I'm sorry but after what I saw on the field at WR this year the coaches are inconsistent. When you have Freshman playing for Bama and Clemson and Ohio State but riding pine hear there's a problem. Guess who beat us in 2018 it was mostly Freshman WR's at Clemson. Inconsistent all across the board not just with Freshman. You have Joe Wilkins who had some good games early on then you don't even hear from him at all the rest of the year. Why wasn't he getting more opportunities? Avery Davis had one good game against Clemson then disappeared. Mckinley was great early on then kinda faded as the season went on. I just can't believe none of the Freshman could get a crack. I actually though Jay Brunelle was gonna be utilized this year do to how good he is with his hands and catching balls in the end zone. We could have used speed.

 

[rtrn2glory]

I'm sorry but after what I saw on the field at WR this year the coaches are inconsistent. When you have Freshman playing for Bama and Clemson and Ohio State but riding pine hear there's a problem. Guess who beat us in 2018 it was mostly Freshman WR's at Clemson. Inconsistent all across the board not just with Freshman. You have Joe Wilkins who had some good games early on then you don't even hear from him at all the rest of the year. Why wasn't he getting more opportunities? Avery Davis had one good game against Clemson then disappeared. Mckinley was great early on then kinda faded as the season went on. I just can't believe none of the Freshman could get a crack. I actually though Jay Brunelle was gonna be utilized this year do to how good he is with his hands and catching balls in the end zone. We could have used speed.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but to be fair the guys at those factories are usually five stars or highly rated, which means they come into college physically ready and usually end up playing on Sundays. Not saying our guys can't, but there is a huge gap in talent as well, not just coaching.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but to be fair the guys at those factories are usually five stars or highly rated, which means they come into college physically ready and usually end up playing on Sundays. Not saying our guys can't, but there is a huge gap in talent as well, not just coaching.

Jordan Johnson was a top 100 recruit.

"Welcome to Notre Dame, high school WR recruit. You will be able to buy a case of beer before you play in a game."

 

[Irish du Nord]

It's total non-sense and just fans looking for someone else to blame besides the player if they end up transferring. Go look up Will Fullers freshman year. It's very similar to the years Metchie or current heisman trophy winner Devonta Smith put up.

I'd go one step further and look up Kevin Stepherson's freshman year. 25 receptions and wasn't even a top 600 player. Context determines opportunities for young receivers. Obviously, an undefeated regular season run during COVID is going to have less opportunities for an unproven freshman than a 4-8 season where Deshone Kizer was given free reign.

 

[Irish du Nord]

I'm sorry but after what I saw on the field at WR this year the coaches are inconsistent. When you have Freshman playing for Bama and Clemson and Ohio State but riding pine hear there's a problem. Guess who beat us in 2018 it was mostly Freshman WR's at Clemson. Inconsistent all across the board not just with Freshman. You have Joe Wilkins who had some good games early on then you don't even hear from him at all the rest of the year. Why wasn't he getting more opportunities? Avery Davis had one good game against Clemson then disappeared. Mckinley was great early on then kinda faded as the season went on. I just can't believe none of the Freshman could get a crack. I actually though Jay Brunelle was gonna be utilized this year do to how good he is with his hands and catching balls in the end zone. We could have used speed.

Certainly our receivers were the worst of the four but let me list all of the Freshmen who made receptions in the CFP Semifinals:
Michael Mayer (ND) 7 for 62 yards
Jaxon Smith-Njigba (OSU) 2 for 12 yards
EJ Williams (CLEM) 5 for 45 yards

Clemson 2018 was an anomaly in terms of freshmen playing a massive role in a playoff run.

 

[Dale]

Certainly our receivers were the worst of the four but let me list all of the Freshmen who made receptions in the CFP Semifinals:
Michael Mayer (ND) 7 for 62 yards
Jaxon Smith-Njigba (OSU) 2 for 12 yards
EJ Williams (CLEM) 5 for 45 yards

Clemson 2018 was an anomaly in terms of freshmen playing a massive role in a playoff run.

Good reference. Smith-Njigba a 5 star who only saw the field because COVID in the WR room gave him a window. Probably could find a Clemson thread from after the first game asking for more EJ Williams because you see ND use Tyree and Mayers lol.

 

[SoIll]

maybe he just wasn't fucking ready?

 

[EvilleIrish]

Is this dude actually leaving or is this just a freak out?

 

[Rogue219]

Jordan Johnson was a top 100 recruit.

"Welcome to Notre Dame, high school WR recruit. You will be able to buy a case of beer before you play in a game."

Spot on.

 

[NDdomer2]

Is this dude actually leaving or is this just a freak out?

You've been around long enough to answer this