'19 GA LB JD Bertrand (Notre Dame Signee)

[Irish Man3]

Does anyone truly believe a PWO pays his own way?

This and this

 

[nsisk157]

Does anyone truly believe a PWO pays his own way?

I have always been hazy of what being a PWO meant, in terms of benefits (read some in a prior post), money, travel, etc. Would you clarify for me?

 

[ab2cmiller]

Does anyone truly believe a PWO pays his own way?

I would be shocked if the PWO got any additional aid that another student (with the same financial background) would get.

If your family is wealthy, you pay full sticker price. If your family is on welfare, you basically go for free. Overall the financial aid that ND provides is very good.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Man there is no way the wealthy ND alumni boosters are letting a PWO pay his own way. You can swing whatever righteous ND baton you want but if you think ND is letting a 4 star walk on and pay his own way, that isnt reasonable.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Man there is no way the wealthy ND alumni boosters are letting a PWO pay his own way. You can swing whatever righteous ND baton you want but if you think ND is letting a 4 star walk on and pay his own way, that isnt reasonable.

Then the moment he sets foot on the field he becomes a counter for NCAA purposes. So taking a PWO spot and any kind of aid is self-defeating.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Even if there was a rich ND alumni that wanted to break the rules, I choose to believe that most ND PWO's would choose not to take the money. Most, if not all, are high character kids that see the value of a ND education and feel it's worth the cost rather than getting a free ride to some other school.

As it pertains to Bertrand, he probably knows that a scholarship will either be available when he starts school, or at least by the second semester. It's a small price to pay if he feels ND is the place where he's supposed to be.

 

[BobbyMac]

Man there is no way the wealthy ND alumni boosters are letting a PWO pay his own way. You can swing whatever righteous ND baton you want but if you think ND is letting a 4 star walk on and pay his own way, that isnt reasonable.

Yes Ray... It's obvious ND's committing Death Penalty level offenses for 15-20 PWO's on the roster.

 

[BobbyMac]

PWO's get special treatment in admissions and scheduling.

In my day, our WO's ate at training table like everyone else and we all had passes at the student union restaurant. When you start figuring in airfare, hotel and per diem for away games + an insane amount of gear that ends up getting sold, they "give" a lot of cake to walk on's.

 

[Irish Man3]

Yes Ray... It's obvious ND's committing Death Penalty level offenses for 15-20 PWO's on the roster.

😂😂😂

 

[NDMIA]

Option 1: Enroll in June 2019 like the rest of his classmates
Option 2: Enroll in January 2020

It’s pretty simple. If he enrolls in June 2019, and Notre Dame doesn’t have a schoolyard available then his parents might have to fork up one semester worth of payments. If someone leaves between June-August then they’d only pay for summer school. If they want to avoid paying altogether then ND would have a scholarship available in January of 2020. I think a scholarship will open up by the time he enrolls in June of 2019 because ND is only 9-10 guys above the limit right now and I think they’ll be a good amount of defections because it’s an ND offseason.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Posted this in Kiser's thread but could be related to Bertrand.

OK, so I saw someone post this in the comment section of an article written on JD Bertrand's commitment:

Jack Kiser is one of six finalists for the Lilly Endowment Community Scholarship Program for Cass County which provides Full Tuition and money to cover books for four years to any Indiana college. It does NOT cover room and board. One item of note is that financial need is NOT a criteria in the selection process. So the fact that Kiser already has a full ride scholarship from ND will not be a negative.

https://www.pharostribune.com/news/local_news/article_9a69c4cb-bbcc-5add-a1c6-757345eb4421.html

If Kiser wins the Lilly Scholarship and had other outside scholarships to help cover room and board, theoretically he could give up his football scholarship.

 

[IrishLax]

Posted this in Kiser's thread but could be related to Bertrand.

NCAA rules for scholarship counters actually work differently than you're describing for sports like football. Anyone who receives any sort of scholarship (from outside sources or the school itself) is a counter as long as they are participating in a "head count" sport like football. The only allowable source of aid where someone isn't a counter is strictly need based. That is, a walk-on can receive the normal need based scholarship money from a school that any normal student would get and not be a counter.

The reason this is the case is that you could extremely easily set up scholarships to get around the 85 rules and funnel tuition money to additional players. While some would be legit, many others would be a farce.

 

[ab2cmiller]

NCAA rules for scholarship counters actually work differently than you're describing for sports like football. Anyone who receives any sort of scholarship (from outside sources or the school itself) is a counter as long as they are participating in a "head count" sport like football. The only allowable source of aid where someone isn't a counter is strictly need based. That is, a walk-on can receive the normal need based scholarship money from a school that any normal student would get and not be a counter.

The reason this is the case is that you could extremely easily set up scholarships to get around the 85 rules and funnel tuition money to additional players. While some would be legit, many others would be a farce.

Good points. Thanks Lax.

Hypothetical:

Preferred Walk On at Notre Dame is Given a $30,000 needs based scholarship. He also applies for and gets and outside scholarship for $2,500 that is not need based. If he ever plays a down at ND, does he become a counter?

 

[Domina Nostra]

NCAA rules for scholarship counters actually work differently than you're describing for sports like football. Anyone who receives any sort of scholarship (from outside sources or the school itself) is a counter as long as they are participating in a "head count" sport like football. The only allowable source of aid where someone isn't a counter is strictly need based. That is, a walk-on can receive the normal need based scholarship money from a school that any normal student would get and not be a counter.

The reason this is the case is that you could extremely easily set up scholarships to get around the 85 rules and funnel tuition money to additional players. While some would be legit, many others would be a farce.

What if you sit out your freshman year? ie, never play, never travel. Would that year count?

 

[IrishLax]

Good points. Thanks Lax.

Hypothetical:

Preferred Walk On at Notre Dame is Given a $30,000 needs based scholarship. He also applies for and gets and outside scholarship for $2,500 that is not need based. If he ever plays a down at ND, does he become a counter?

In general, if they're accepting any money that isn't "need based" they're a counter.

There are some crazy carve outs... for example, the "Haudenosaunee Promise" at Syracuse is a thing where they give free tuition to any Native American member of the tribe. Not a big impact for football, but for lacrosse it effectively allows them to go way over the scholarship limit with Native Americans they recruit. And it's allowable because of the way it's written and the way it applies to all Native Americans of a specific group.

I believe there's also something where if you're a very high achieving student that meets certain criteria you can take some academic-based scholarship money coming into your first year of college. But I haven't looked at the rules in about a decade.

 

[BobbyMac]

What if you sit out your freshman year? ie, never play, never travel. Would that year count?

Supposed to. You have 5 years to play four as established by your graduating HS class unless you do a year of prep school. The NCAA can make exceptions for various reasons that seem to becoming more lenient each year but usually it is active military or religious commitments that get the waiver.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Supposed to. You have 5 years to play four as established by your graduating HS class unless you do a year of prep school. The NCAA can make exceptions for various reasons that seem to becoming more lenient each year but usually it is active military or religious commitments that get the waiver.

But ever walk-ons who never receive a scholarship have 5 years to complete 4, right? And we know they don't count against the limit.

I guess what I am asking is what makes you a counter if you don't receive an athletic scholarship? Being on the roster alone? Or do you have to play, travel, or do something else?

 

[Legacy]

Stanford tuition is free to any student whose parents' income is below $125,000 making that an advantage to a PWO who qualifies.

Since it's USC week, Wyatt Schmidt, their walkon holder, was awarded a scholarship in the middle of this season. From link:

PERSONAL: He received his bachelor’s degree in real estate development at USC in the spring of 2018 with a B average (3.16 GPA) and is now working on his master’s degree in business finance. He made 2017 Pac-12 All-Academic honorable mention.

 

[BobbyMac]

Bertrand and Blessed Trinity advanced to the title game. Would have faced Kyle Hamilton and Marist had they won.

 

[arrowryan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A natural leader and a guy you want next to you going to battle. <a href="https://twitter.com/JDBertrand1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@JDBertrand1</a> is all Irish and we can't wait to have him join the LB corps.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoIrish?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoIrish</a> ☘️ <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FightClub19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FightClub19</a> <a href="https://t.co/Fy3jCeqvsu">pic.twitter.com/Fy3jCeqvsu</a></p>— Notre Dame Football (@NDFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/NDFootball/status/1075386322322407424?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A true leader on and off the field. <br><br>I am excited that JD Bertrand made the decision to join the Irish and I can't wait to get to work with him this Fall. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FightClub19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FightClub19</a> <a href="https://t.co/KcXCkGHMCg">pic.twitter.com/KcXCkGHMCg</a></p>— Brian Polian (@BrianPolian) <a href="https://twitter.com/BrianPolian/status/1075391034325118977?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">SIGNED: Georgia LB JD Bertrand has signed his National Letter of Intent to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NotreDame</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NSD19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NSD19</a> <a href="https://t.co/gCqZza5SmK">https://t.co/gCqZza5SmK</a></p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/status/1075389616583258112?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[rtrn2glory]

does this mean he's official? tbh he was the one I was thinking about waiting to pull the trigger

 

[arrowryan]

does this mean he's official? tbh he was the one I was thinking about waiting to pull the trigger

Yes, this is official. It would be a big no no for the official twitter of ND football to directly tweet a recruit unless he signed his LOI.

 

[rtrn2glory]

ok thanks that's what I thought too

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

Yes, this is official. It would be a big no no for the official twitter of ND football to directly tweet a recruit unless he signed his LOI.

I'm pretty sure there are other ways to comment even if he didn't sign an LOI.

13.10.3 Publicity After Commitment. There are no restrictions on publicity related to a prospective student-athlete after he or she has signed a National Letter of Intent or the institution’s written offer of admission
and/or financial aid or after the institution has received his or her financial deposit in response to its offer of admission, except as set forth in Bylaw 13.10.1. In basketball and football, for institutions that subscribe to the National
Letter of Intent program, this provision does not apply to a prospective student-athlete who only signs an institution’s written offer of admission and/or financial aid prior to the initial regular (as opposed to early) signing date
of the National Letter of Intent program in the applicable sport. In sports other than basketball and football, for
institutions that subscribe to the National Letter of Intent program this provision does not apply to an individual
who only signs an institution’s written offer of admission prior to the initial signing date of the National Letter of
Intent program in the applicable sport.

So the school putting out the graphic really doesn't tell us one way or another.

 

[NDMIA]

I'm pretty sure there are other ways to comment even if he didn't sign an LOI.

13.10.3 Publicity After Commitment. There are no restrictions on publicity related to a prospective student-athlete after he or she has signed a National Letter of Intent or the institution’s written offer of admission
and/or financial aid or after the institution has received his or her financial deposit in response to its offer of admission, except as set forth in Bylaw 13.10.1. In basketball and football, for institutions that subscribe to the National
Letter of Intent program, this provision does not apply to a prospective student-athlete who only signs an institution’s written offer of admission and/or financial aid prior to the initial regular (as opposed to early) signing date
of the National Letter of Intent program in the applicable sport. In sports other than basketball and football, for
institutions that subscribe to the National Letter of Intent program this provision does not apply to an individual
who only signs an institution’s written offer of admission prior to the initial signing date of the National Letter of
Intent program in the applicable sport.

So the school putting out the graphic really doesn't tell us one way or another.

There’s also the ability to enroll just later than your peers and still sign a letter of intent. Some guys end up in JUCO but the schools thought they were coming so they speak about them. Polian seemed to put that to bed when he said, see you next fall so I think he’ll be on scholarship and enrolling at a normal time.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

They have also put out videos for Harrison Leonard and Conor Ratigan, both walk ons. So again, it really doesn't tell us anything one way or the other.

 

[NDVirginia19]

So just to make sure I read that Sampson article correctly, he has no scholarship right? But basically 'next man in' for scholarship if we dip below 85?

 

[BabyIrish]

So just to make sure I read that Sampson article correctly, he has no scholarship right? But basically 'next man in' for scholarship if we dip below 85?

Correct, he has not been accepted as a scholarship football player at this time. If a scholarship opens up for Fall 2019, then he'll get one. If not, he'll apply for financial aid/academic scholarship to help off set the cost for the first year. It doesn't say but my guess is he'll be on scholarship no later than 2020. He still will be given every opportunity to compete for the job of mike linebacker. He's visiting for his whole spring break to watch practices and learn the defense from Lea, all this according to Pete.

 

[Irishman77]

So we have a spot for foskey and Asa who may not want us, but a 4 star linebacker out of Georgia doesn’t.

I feel like I’m in Bazzaroworld

 

[Luckylucci]

Correct, he has not been accepted as a scholarship football player at this time. If a scholarship opens up for Fall 2019, then he'll get one. If not, he'll apply for financial aid/academic scholarship to help off set the cost for the first year. It doesn't say but my guess is he'll be on scholarship no later than 2020. He still will be given every opportunity to compete for the job of mike linebacker. He's visiting for his whole spring break to watch practices and learn the defense from Lea, all this according to Pete.

This would be my assumption. Worst case scenario, he's a 1 year walk-on and then be a scholarship LB after that. From a roster management standpoint, I would assume they just look at this as adding a LB to the 20' class. And since he's a pretty good football player, gotta love that.