'16 CA QB Ian Book (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[GowerND11]

I think we can all agree ND is a top 10ish program right now. Over the last 5 years, whose QB room would you take over the Irish?

1) Alabama
2) Clemson
3) Ohio St
4) Oklahoma
5) LSU
6) Georgia
(A little murky here)
7) Oregon
8) Wisconsin
9) Florida

In fairness, the two bolded have benefited extremely well from transfer in.

 

[fightingirish26]

In fairness, the two bolded have benefited extremely well from transfer in.

I would love to see ND hit the transfer market for a QB. Whatever we're doing, isn't working. Change it up, get the mostly finished product.

 

[Free Manera]

I think we can all agree ND is a top 10ish program right now. Over the last 5 years, whose QB room would you take over the Irish?

1) Alabama
2) Clemson
3) Ohio St
4) Oklahoma
5) LSU
6) Georgia
(A little murky here)
7) Oregon
8) Wisconsin
9) Florida

It is an embarrassment of riches with the first 4. I would literally take their backups right now, let alone their starters.

 

[ThePiombino]

I'm not sure, but to be honest I couldn't name a Notre Dame QB that has done anything great in the NFL in my lifetime and I'm 34.

lol wait, this is a joke. Right? Do you remember a dude by the name of Joe Montana? Won a few games in the NFL well within your lifetime...

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[IHateMarkMay]

lol wait, this is a joke. Right? Do you remember a dude by the name of Joe Montana? Won a few games in the NFL well within your lifetime...

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

My bad, I was 8 when he retired. Don't remember a whole lot of football games in the first 8 years of my life.

Point still stands. What NFL QBs from ND can these kids remember growing up or even now?

 

[Irishize]

I think it’s too early to panic on Book. Sadly, the season may be over if the COVID spreads out of control.

ND is lucky they have an easy schedule this year that gives them time to work out kinks before Clemson comes to town Nov 7.

Let’s be honest the first three games were going to be considered scrimmages so my hope was that Book could take some shots down field at WF this Sat just to get it on film. That can’t happen now but hopefully it can be down in the FSU or GT game. That’s the missing piece for me to see.

If he’s not a threat to throw downfield, Clemson will make ND one dimensional and the game will be similar to their last meeting...at least offensively.

 

[ulukinatme]

I think people are frustrated with Book because it's clear by now that he is what he is. And what he is is good, but not good enough to put the team on his back and beat a top-tier program. Yet he also appears to not only have not grown in certain areas, but regressed in others.

I think people are also frustrated with the staff because Book is the best they could muster over the past few years. They're frustrated that folks with such incredibly high ceilings never panned out - Wimbush and PJ in the past three years alone. They were supposed to be the talent to put ND over at QB, but alas here we are -- just trying to get by until the next Neo comes along.

Yes, Book has a good record, but not a single program-defining win and when we had those opportunities, Book's shortcomings we're blatantly obvious.

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Nah this comes down to one thing - his limitations in throwing the ball downfield. Even against bad teams he doesn’t do it, which just reminds everyone how easy it is for good defenses to stack the box and shut him down. There is a 0% chance ND can beat top 5 teams without throwing deep.

No one cares about career yards or career records. Both are padded stats against teams that don’t have the horses to hang for 4 quarters. I think most just feel hopeless that yet again ND could get the doors blown off against Clemson (maybe twice) if something doesn’t change.

Yes!

I will say that it’s kind of nice in a strange way that our biggest complaint is about our QB that has been pretty good. The roster has improved so much in speed and depth over the past few years that this is our biggest issue. I’m not sure Book will be able to beat Clemson, but he has been our starter for lots of other wins. I like him, but I would really love to see this team with a Lawrence, Fields type of QB. A game breaker type would be amazing. I will be thrilled if Buchner (or one of the current backups) end up being an upgrade.

100% correct here. Frustrated that ND couldnt get better in three years than Book and frustrated that Book really hasnt improved. Frustrated that BK has to know that every single team will play close because Book hasnt proven to throw the long ball. Why wasnt the long ball practiced over and over until it was something he could do? Why accept the limitations and weaknesses? Sure, you can beat the middle teams but BK has proven over and over that he just doesnt beat the Good teams.

What good is a great record against weak to middle teams and a completely defeated record vs the good teams?

Most of you have mentioned or alluded to Book's lack of a downfield passing game as his greatest weakness. Riddle me this: who is our current deep threat among our receivers...who consistently gets open? Who have our deep threats been since Will Fuller was drafted? Chris Finke, that's about as close to consistent as it's been since Fuller left, and Finke broke 500 yards just barely one year. He had some great catches, like in the '18 Michigan game, but I wouldn't say he was a consistent deep threat...especially when he was playing banged up for us.

Now, I know we're only two games into the season, but who are our leading receivers as it stands today? Kyren is tied with Tremble for the most yards with Tremble having more receptions, and at #3 is Mayer. That's a RB and two TEs as our leading receivers. That's not on Book, many of us commented on the fact this receiving corps is inexperienced or young. We lost a lot of production from last year, and it's going to take time for guys to step up. Lenzy is probably the best chance for a deep threat, but so far he has 3 receptions for 30 yards, so the jury is still out. Maybe Austin steps up when he gets back, but that's a big question mark too.

So Book can't apparently throw farther than 10 yards because he has a noodle arm or something. Now Wimbush, he had a big arm, right? He could launch the ball. I went back and looked at every play from his 2017 season. As it turns out Wimbush averaged about one big pass of +25 yards in each game, that was it. There was one game where he had 3 such passes (Wake Forest) and two where he had 0 (Miami and Stanford, although the later had two big passes because Stepherson and St. Brown took short passes for huge YAC). There were a handful of other passes that went over 25 yards, but they were all screens or plays where the receiver caught short passes and did the leg work. So yeah...while stretching a defense can be important, without a consistent deep threat even a big arm like Wimbush is only going to get about one big play a game...so what is the big deal? Oh yeah, that season I did find some big passes from Book too (I found a handful even though he started one game), so he certainly has the ability when the receivers are there:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uh7wc9YSHmQ?start=894" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Bottom line, Book is a very good quarterback with an outstanding record. He's had up and down periods like many QBs, but it's hard to be critical of his deep throw ability when we hardly have a deep threat to throw to consistently. It's up to our WRs to step up right now, our RBs and TEs can't shoulder all the load. Hopefully we get Austin back and he lives up to expectations, and maybe Lenzy gets there, but for now the WR group just isn't producing.

 

[NDRock]

Most of you have mentioned or alluded to Book's lack of a downfield passing game as his greatest weakness. Riddle me this: who is our current deep threat among our receivers...who consistently gets open? Who have our deep threats been since Will Fuller was drafted? Chris Finke, that's about as close to consistent as it's been since Fuller left, and Finke broke 500 yards just barely one year. He had some great catches, like in the '18 Michigan game, but I wouldn't say he was a consistent deep threat...especially when he was playing banged up for us.

Now, I know we're only two games into the season, but who are our leading receivers as it stands today? Kyren is tied with Tremble for the most yards with Tremble having more receptions, and at #3 is Mayer. That's a RB and two TEs as our leading receivers. That's not on Book, many of us commented on the fact this receiving corps is inexperienced or young. We lost a lot of production from last year, and it's going to take time for guys to step up. Lenzy is probably the best chance for a deep threat, but so far he has 3 receptions for 30 yards, so the jury is still out. Maybe Austin steps up when he gets back, but that's a big question mark too.

So Book can't apparently throw farther than 10 yards because he has a noodle arm or something. Now Wimbush, he had a big arm, right? He could launch the ball. I went back and looked at every play from his 2017 season. As it turns out Wimbush averaged about one big pass of +25 yards in each game, that was it. There was one game where he had 3 such passes (Wake Forest) and two where he had 0 (Miami and Stanford, although the later had two big passes because Stepherson and St. Brown took short passes for huge YAC). There were a handful of other passes that went over 25 yards, but they were all screens or plays where the receiver caught short passes and did the leg work. So yeah...while stretching a defense can be important, without a consistent deep threat even a big arm like Wimbush is only going to get about one big play a game...so what is the big deal? Oh yeah, that season I did find some big passes from Book too (I found a handful even though he started one game), so he certainly has the ability when the receivers are there:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uh7wc9YSHmQ?start=894" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Bottom line, Book is a very good quarterback with an outstanding record. He's had up and down periods like many QBs, but it's hard to be critical of his deep throw ability when we hardly have a deep threat to throw to consistently. It's up to our WRs to step up right now, our RBs and TEs can't shoulder all the load. Hopefully we get Austin back and he lives up to expectations, and maybe Lenzy gets there, but for now the WR group just isn't producing.

The last two years, Claypool and Boykin have run 4.42 laser timed 40s. Cole Kmet was just the 1st TE drafted. We’ve had deep threats on the roster, it’s just not a part of Book’s game. Why is it so hard to admit that he’s not a good downfield passer?

The guy gives his all and has won ND a bunch of games. Both him and Kelly are victims of our recent success. Fans want to see us take the next step and truly compete for a title. Many realize it probably won’t happen with our current situation at QB. I love the guy but realize his ceiling isn’t good enough against the elite teams. I’m glad he’s our QB though and hope he defies my expectations.

 

[ThePiombino]

Most of you have mentioned or alluded to Book's lack of a downfield passing game as his greatest weakness. Riddle me this: who is our current deep threat among our receivers...who consistently gets open? Who have our deep threats been since Will Fuller was drafted? Chris Finke, that's about as close to consistent as it's been since Fuller left, and Finke broke 500 yards just barely one year. He had some great catches, like in the '18 Michigan game, but I wouldn't say he was a consistent deep threat...especially when he was playing banged up for us.

Now, I know we're only two games into the season, but who are our leading receivers as it stands today? Kyren is tied with Tremble for the most yards with Tremble having more receptions, and at #3 is Mayer. That's a RB and two TEs as our leading receivers. That's not on Book, many of us commented on the fact this receiving corps is inexperienced or young. We lost a lot of production from last year, and it's going to take time for guys to step up. Lenzy is probably the best chance for a deep threat, but so far he has 3 receptions for 30 yards, so the jury is still out. Maybe Austin steps up when he gets back, but that's a big question mark too.

So Book can't apparently throw farther than 10 yards because he has a noodle arm or something. Now Wimbush, he had a big arm, right? He could launch the ball. I went back and looked at every play from his 2017 season. As it turns out Wimbush averaged about one big pass of +25 yards in each game, that was it. There was one game where he had 3 such passes (Wake Forest) and two where he had 0 (Miami and Stanford, although the later had two big passes because Stepherson and St. Brown took short passes for huge YAC). There were a handful of other passes that went over 25 yards, but they were all screens or plays where the receiver caught short passes and did the leg work. So yeah...while stretching a defense can be important, without a consistent deep threat even a big arm like Wimbush is only going to get about one big play a game...so what is the big deal? Oh yeah, that season I did find some big passes from Book too (I found a handful even though he started one game), so he certainly has the ability when the receivers are there:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uh7wc9YSHmQ?start=894" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Bottom line, Book is a very good quarterback with an outstanding record. He's had up and down periods like many QBs, but it's hard to be critical of his deep throw ability when we hardly have a deep threat to throw to consistently. It's up to our WRs to step up right now, our RBs and TEs can't shoulder all the load. Hopefully we get Austin back and he lives up to expectations, and maybe Lenzy gets there, but for now the WR group just isn't producing.

I don't think Book CAN'T throw downfield. I think he just DOESN'T. Why? I dunno, maybe because he can't see WTF is happening down there. And you can't tell me that any other halfway-decent QB couldn't manage to find Lenzy open downfield. And like NDRock mentioned, Boykin and Claypool were fast enough to get deep, not to mention GIANTS.
You don't need to be WIDE OPEN to be OPEN. Come on man. The sample size is much larger than just this season...

 

[Irish YJ]

The last two years, Claypool and Boykin have run 4.42 laser timed 40s. Cole Kmet was just the 1st TE drafted. We’ve had deep threats on the roster, it’s just not a part of Book’s game. Why is it so hard to admit that he’s not a good downfield passer?

The guy gives his all and has won ND a bunch of games. Both him and Kelly are victims of our recent success. Fans want to see us take the next step and truly compete for a title. Many realize it probably won’t happen with our current situation at QB. I love the guy but realize his ceiling isn’t good enough against the elite teams. I’m glad he’s our QB though and hope he defies my expectations.

Having a deep threat on the roster, and letting that deep threat run a deep route on a play called to go deep are two different things though. I also just don't know how much our scheme and game plan play into the lack of deep attempts. Like someone mentioned, pre-Book, it wasn't like we threw deep with a rocket arm QBs.

I don't think Book CAN'T throw downfield. I think he just DOESN'T. Why? I dunno, maybe because he can't see WTF is happening down there. And you can't tell me that any other halfway-decent QB couldn't manage to find Lenzy open downfield. And like NDRock mentioned, Boykin and Claypool were fast enough to get deep, not to mention GIANTS.
You don't need to be WIDE OPEN to be OPEN. Come on man. The sample size is much larger than just this season...

I'd just love to have separation stats on our WRs/TEs over the seasons, and also some general data on routes run compared to some of the other teams out there. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I just don't recall any BK QB doing a lot of deep stuff. Our AVG over the years actually shows Book with two of the top 3 AVG years. Only one year did we have higher thank Book's 8.4, which was Kizers 8.6 year.

 

[NDRock]

Having a deep threat on the roster, and letting that deep threat run a deep route on a play called to go deep are two different things though. I also just don't know how much our scheme and game plan play into the lack of deep attempts. Like someone mentioned, pre-Book, it wasn't like we threw deep with a rocket arm QBs.



I'd just love to have separation stats on our WRs/TEs over the seasons, and also some general data on routes run compared to some of the other teams out there. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I just don't recall any BK QB doing a lot of deep stuff. Our AVG over the years actually shows Book with two of the top 3 AVG years. Only one year did we have higher thank Book's 8.4, which was Kizers 8.6 year.

I agree that it's not just Book. Other than Kizer I don't recall us throwing deep or over the middle much. Which is surprising with our TEs. A lot of sideline routes that get few if any YACs. Part of the reason why Book has played so much as he fits what they want to do on offense.

 

[Irish YJ]

I agree that it's not just Book. Other than Kizer I don't recall us throwing deep or over the middle much. Which is surprising with our TEs. A lot of sideline routes that get few if any YACs. Part of the reason why Book has played so much as he fits what they want to do on offense.

Yea, I just don't know lol. I've never been a huge fan of BK's O though. I was hoping Tommy might bring a little more razzle dazzle. I know historically we've struggled in WR recruiting, but even when we do seem to get a big talent, we still tend to go with conservative guys. Seeing Ben Skowronek listed as the starter week 1 was a total erection killer. And don't get me wrong, love Javon, but he's just not a dynamic guy.

 

[NDRock]

Yea, I just don't know lol. I've never been a huge fan of BK's O though. I was hoping Tommy might bring a little more razzle dazzle. I know historically we've struggled in WR recruiting, but even when we do seem to get a big talent, we still tend to go with conservative guys. Seeing Ben Skowronek listed as the starter week 1 was a total erection killer. And don't get me wrong, love Javon, but he's just not a dynamic guy.

Agree, that duo tempered my expectations quite a bit. Couple that with what I thought we had at RB and I figured 9-2 at best. Been pleasantly surprised with our backs and hoping the same out of the young WRs. I'm actually a little more optimistic of our passing game with the TEs and backs getting involved.

 

[Irish YJ]

Agree, that duo tempered my expectations quite a bit. Couple that with what I thought we had at RB and I figured 9-2 at best. Been pleasantly surprised with our backs and hoping the same out of the young WRs. I'm actually a little more optimistic of our passing game with the TEs and backs getting involved.

I'm honestly still pretty optimistic overall about the passing game. My expectations are lower for Book than most, and I know he's never going to be a long ball gunslinger, but I don't see things as being bad as some. Given all the covid stuff, lack of spring, etc.. And Book has pretty much all new WRs, and a new OC. And my naïve hopes that Austin will come back, coupled with the eventual emergence of Lenzy, Keys, and Johnson, still give me a sense of hope. I'm totally good with the TEs. And love what the RBs are doing. I just want to see if they can continue vs better comp.

 

[NDRock]

I'm honestly still pretty optimistic overall about the passing game. My expectations are lower for Book than most, and I know he's never going to be a long ball gunslinger, but I don't see things as being bad as some. Given all the covid stuff, lack of spring, etc.. And Book has pretty much all new WRs, and a new OC. And my naïve hopes that Austin will come back, coupled with the eventual emergence of Lenzy, Keys, and Johnson, still give me a sense of hope. I'm totally good with the TEs. And love what the RBs are doing. I just want to see if they can continue vs better comp.

I'm right there with you. At least we still have hope. It's funny how much hope we put on Austin who I think has 5 career receptions. You'd think we're getting 1998 Randy Moss back.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm right there with you. At least we still have hope. It's funny how much hope we put on Austin who I think has 5 career receptions. You'd think we're getting 1998 Randy Moss back.

Yea lol. I don't see him as RM, but the practice reports over time sure have sounded awesome. I just want to see some game time magic. And I'm still a bit shocked Tyree is getting all the PT. I just wish BK would toss in some young WR talent too. Johnson is another I really want to see, although I have zero idea how he's looked in practice.

 

[ulukinatme]

The last two years, Claypool and Boykin have run 4.42 laser timed 40s. Cole Kmet was just the 1st TE drafted. We’ve had deep threats on the roster, it’s just not a part of Book’s game. Why is it so hard to admit that he’s not a good downfield passer?

The guy gives his all and has won ND a bunch of games. Both him and Kelly are victims of our recent success. Fans want to see us take the next step and truly compete for a title. Many realize it probably won’t happen with our current situation at QB. I love the guy but realize his ceiling isn’t good enough against the elite teams. I’m glad he’s our QB though and hope he defies my expectations.

I don't think Book CAN'T throw downfield. I think he just DOESN'T. Why? I dunno, maybe because he can't see WTF is happening down there. And you can't tell me that any other halfway-decent QB couldn't manage to find Lenzy open downfield. And like NDRock mentioned, Boykin and Claypool were fast enough to get deep, not to mention GIANTS.
You don't need to be WIDE OPEN to be OPEN. Come on man. The sample size is much larger than just this season...

Again, go back to 2017 and look at Wimbush who had a big arm. I challenge you to go through every play from every game that season. Wimbush generally had 1, occasionally 2 passes of 25+ yards each game. It's not like guys were constantly getting open deep and he was showing off that arm every chance he got. We haven't had a consistent deep threat for awhile now, it's not just Book. It has less to do with the QB and more to do with our personnel and probably playcalling. It's not like the days of Brady Quinn when we were launching it deep to Samardzija or McKnight several times a game. Boykin and Claypool may have had some speed, but how often were we streaking them on go routes down the sideline and hitting them? We weren't, it's not really part of this offense and if they were running a straight route they were lucky to the ball once a game on a deep pass like that. Again, since Fuller left we either don't have a consistent deep threat at WR and/or we're not calling such plays often in this offense.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Is Ian book the worst (actual) starter on the offense?

I found myself asking that each of the past couple of weeks. Not saying he's bad. I'm just saying he's the player that has the lowest ceiling, or the weakest link so to speak.

 

[calvegas04]

I think he is a solid QB and the best we have right now so we better be grateful for him

 

[IRISHMAN]

I think he is a solid QB and the best we have right now so we better be grateful for him

completely agree, he may not have the highest ceiling but he's won a lot of games for ND and I for one am grateful to have him on the team.

 

[ulukinatme]

I think he is a solid QB and the best we have right now so we better be grateful for him

This. Every time we've had some "scrub" at QB and people were clamoring for a higher rated guy on the bench it ended up badly. There were people that wanted 5* Dayne Crist back in when he got benched for Tommy, but Dayne never returned to form after his injury and he didn't do anything at Kansas after the transfer. Hendrix couldn't get a first down against USC when he came in for an injured Tommy in 2013, struggled with the read option too when his legs should have been his strength. Some of us (Myself included, I ate crow) wanted Zaire back in over Kizer at the start of 2016, but like Crist it seemed like Zaire was a shell of himself and lost a step after his injury. Some fans wanted Wimbush back in over Book because of his big arm, but struggling with Ball St. and Vanderbuilt it was clear Book was the more complete QB at the end of the day. Wimbush flamed out at UCF after the transfer. The jury is still out on Jurkovec, but I trust the staff as they have shown to make the right call when it comes to the QBs on the roster. If Phil couldn't beat out Book for the job, then he's probably not the guy.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

This. Every time we've had some "scrub" at QB and people were clamoring for a higher rated guy on the bench it ended up badly. There were people that wanted 5* Dayne Crist back in when he got benched for Tommy, but Dayne never returned to form after his injury and he didn't do anything at Kansas after the transfer. Hendrix couldn't get a first down against USC when he came in for an injured Tommy in 2013, struggled with the read option too when his legs should have been his strength. Some of us (Myself included, I ate crow) wanted Zaire back in over Kizer at the start of 2016, but like Crist it seemed like Zaire was a shell of himself and lost a step after his injury. Some fans wanted Wimbush back in over Book because of his big arm, but struggling with Ball St. and Vanderbuilt it was clear Book was the more complete QB at the end of the day. Wimbush flamed out at UCF after the transfer. The jury is still out on Jurkovec, but I trust the staff as they have shown to make the right call when it comes to the QBs on the roster. If Phil couldn't beat out Book for the job, then he's probably not the guy.

Where the **** is the guy? That's the main question and source of frustration for most on here. Its been 11 years and we haven't see "the guy". At some point the blind squirrel even finds the nut right?

I agree with all your points though, reasonable assessment.

 

[Luckylucci]

Again, go back to 2017 and look at Wimbush who had a big arm. I challenge you to go through every play from every game that season. Wimbush generally had 1, occasionally 2 passes of 25+ yards each game. It's not like guys were constantly getting open deep and he was showing off that arm every chance he got. We haven't had a consistent deep threat for awhile now, it's not just Book. It has less to do with the QB and more to do with our personnel and probably playcalling. It's not like the days of Brady Quinn when we were launching it deep to Samardzija or McKnight several times a game. Boykin and Claypool may have had some speed, but how often were we streaking them on go routes down the sideline and hitting them? We weren't, it's not really part of this offense and if they were running a straight route they were lucky to the ball once a game on a deep pass like that. Again, since Fuller left we either don't have a consistent deep threat at WR and/or we're not calling such plays often in this offense.

The answers are, they run plenty of 'deep' routes and Book very rarely hits them. I don't know what you constitute as 'often' but there are multiple routes run on every play and over the course of a game, there plenty of chances to make those throws. Just because Wimbish didn't throw or complete them, doesn't make it less true. He just wasn't very good either.

The sheer fact that the offense has to scheme him into single read situations, to start a game (against a terrible defense), is all you need to know about how good Book is playing right now.

The good news is, we have an OC that is now willing to adapt to this more than before (many have been calling for the play action for awhile now). The bad news is, when we don't do that, (some teams it may not matter) Ian is pretty broke. His non-play action numbers from last week (against a terrible defense) are what QB's get benched for.

 

[ThePiombino]

I think he is a solid QB and the best we have right now so we better be grateful for him

You really think the gap between him and Clark is all that much? Clark is mobile and has serious arm talent. He could present the exact options this offense would need to keep the likes of Clemson honest on defense.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[ulukinatme]

The answers are, they run plenty of 'deep' routes and Book very rarely hits them. I don't know what you constitute as 'often' but there are multiple routes run on every play and over the course of a game, there plenty of chances to make those throws. Just because Wimbish didn't throw or complete them, doesn't make it less true. He just wasn't very good either.

The sheer fact that the offense has to scheme him into single read situations, to start a game (against a terrible defense), is all you need to know about how good Book is playing right now.

The good news is, we have an OC that is now willing to adapt to this more than before (many have been calling for the play action for awhile now). The bad news is, when we don't do that, (some teams it may not matter) Ian is pretty broke. His non-play action numbers from last week (against a terrible defense) are what QB's get benched for.

Would you not agree that the WR corps right now is inexperienced and needs to step up though? This reeks strongly of the 2016 season when Kizer came back to a depleted group of receivers that took time to find their groove. The QB was the same, the OL should have been good enough, but the talent and experience wasn't there among the pass catchers. Just like that year, we lost all our production/big targets from last year to the Draft and graduation.

 

[NDRock]

Would you not agree that the WR corps right now is inexperienced and needs to step up though? This reeks strongly of the 2016 season when Kizer came back to a depleted group of receivers that took time to find their groove. The QB was the same, the OL should have been good enough, but the talent and experience wasn't there among the pass catchers. Just like that year, we lost all our production/big targets from last year to the Draft and graduation.

I guess we remember 2016 differently. You remember a poor passing offense. I remember a team that was averaging 40 points the first 5 games but was saddled with the worst defense in Notre Dame history. The DC got fired in the middle of the season which is almost unheard of at ND.

 

[T-Boone]

yeah wasn't it 2017 that had a bad passing game?

 

[ulukinatme]

I guess we remember 2016 differently. You remember a poor passing offense. I remember a team that was averaging 40 points the first 5 games but was saddled with the worst defense in Notre Dame history. The DC got fired in the middle of the season which is almost unheard of at ND.

We also opened the season with a weak Texas squad, Syracuse, Nevada, and Duke. Yeah, the defense was atrocious, but Kizer also had 5% lower completion percentage in 2016 despite having basically a full season of experience under his belt. We also didn't have a receiver hit 1000 yards in 2016, and only three times did a receiver hit 100 yards. St. Brown eventually grew into a good receiver, but Hunter, Stepherson, and Sanders certainly weren't a group of world beaters and I'd hardly put that group among our best pass catchers if we're stacking up BK's seasons in South Bend. It was a far cry from the previous season when Kizer was throwing to Fuller, a steady Chris Brown, Amir Carlisle, and Corey Robinson.

 

[ulukinatme]

yeah wasn't it 2017 that had a bad passing game?

That was more on Wimbush missing the easy throws and not a case of inexperience/lack of talent at WR. That season Wimbush had St. Brown, Smythe, Claypool, Alize Mack, and Finke to throw to. All of them were more experienced and more talented than the group from the previous season. That lack of accuracy is what eventually doomed Wimbush and led to the rise of Book.

 

[Luckylucci]

Would you not agree that the WR corps right now is inexperienced and needs to step up though? This reeks strongly of the 2016 season when Kizer came back to a depleted group of receivers that took time to find their groove. The QB was the same, the OL should have been good enough, but the talent and experience wasn't there among the pass catchers. Just like that year, we lost all our production/big targets from last year to the Draft and graduation.

There is plenty of offense being schemed/called right now. Plenty. Would it be easier if we had a Chase Claypool on the outside for him to throw too. Of course. But even when we did (beginning of last year) we still had these problems. There is a constant here. This isn't new. This has been going on for 3 seasons now. Back in 18' when Pitt was running CB blitzes and Book had no idea what to do. So what did they do, finally in the 4th, they got him into play action. A smart OC would have done this sooner. And a better Qb wouldn't have had too.

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/mil...own-gives-notre-dame-first-lead-vs-pittsburgh

How much separation is there, 1-2 steps? Wow, look at how that works. So, the WR's don't need to be WIDE open to complete passes. Crazy concept.

This notion it's the WR fault or they need more separation is just a bad excuse for Ian's same problems he's always had. If it wasn't an issue, you wouldn't see the plays being called different. He cannot function in a (what most would consider) traditional spread offense, right now. At least not consistently. For whatever reason, he's buckling under the pressure of maintaining composure in the pocket while going through is progressions.

To start 2016, they scored 47 points against Texas in the opener. Kizer in that game was 15-24, 215 yds, 5 TD's. With 77 yards rushing and another TD. We didn't lose because our offense struggled with new WR's.

2016 was a disaster because the defense was. Kizer was forced to do too much. Or at least, he felt that way and then played that way. If Book was the QB with a defense that bad, his record would not be good either. You realize that we lost games that year scoring 47, 28, 35, 27, 31, and 27. Considering that Lea had an unprecedented number of games not giving up 30 or more, you can see why that's important.