'15 FL ATH Dexter Williams (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[koonja]

This is just plane wrong. You are basing Jafar’s chance at the NFL and his running style on 4 games at a position he has never ever played previously. He was a WR his whole life until spring 2018. You don’t think in the next 3 years he will learn how to run low, lower his pads and read blocks. From game 1 to the Wake Forest game there had been noticeable improvement In Jafar’s running style.

Please explain why in 3 years you don’t think Jafar will learn RB traits? Do you think he is slow in the head or something?


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Jafar is athletic but Jamir Smith already runs through tackles better than Jafar.

He won't be a NFL RB. doesn't mean he can't be a good college RB. Let's pin this post and shelf it for 2 years.

 

[Irish#1]

This is just plane wrong. You are basing Jafar’s chance at the NFL and his running style on 4 games at a position he has never ever played previously. He was a WR his whole life until spring 2018. You don’t think in the next 3 years he will learn how to run low, lower his pads and read blocks. From game 1 to the Wake Forest game there had been noticeable improvement In Jafar’s running style.

Please explain why in 3 years you don’t think Jafar will learn RB traits? Do you think he is slow in the head or something?


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That's what Koon does best! lol

 

[GowerND11]

Koon is absolutely right in that Dex is our best running back on the team. He's explosive, fresh, a veteran, and motivated. The problem lies in how he is viewing this topic. He thinks everyone is doing some group think and attacking his claim.

The reality is, Dex, as of now, has not shown to NFL teams, coaches, scouts, etc. that he is an every down back that can consistently catch the ball. In his career, Dex has a whopping 7 catches for 28 yard... That does not mean Dex can't catch. It means he doesn't catch. Whether by design, lack of opportunities, not open, whatever it may be Dex is not a legit threat in the passing game. He made a fantastic grab against MSU last year, but that's really it. Therefore, Rack Em is right.

 

[koonja]

You guys make it sound like he's Ethan Albright on madden whenever he's not holding the ball.

I'm just saying he's not as terrible at pass pro or receiving as everyone says he is. At least he hasn't shown it. And if he is that bad, then all the ND RBs are bad, Jafar and Tony Jones included.

Matt Freeman sent me a GIF of Tony Jones trying to pass protect against Stanford, and he literally went to the line, did a 360, and didn't touch anyone. If Dexter is incapable, they all are.

Regardless, when you run low, with patience, carry people for yards after contact, do not fumble, and can break it at any time, you play in the NFL as a RB. And he will. And it will be for longer than those mentioned IMO.

 

[GowerND11]

You guys make it sound like he's Ethan Albright on madden whenever he's not holding the ball.

I'm just saying he's not as terrible at pass pro or receiving as everyone says he is. At least he hasn't shown it. And if he is that bad, then all the ND RBs are bad, Jafar and Tony Jones included.

Matt Freeman sent me a GIF of Tony Jones trying to pass protect against Stanford, and he literally went to the line, did a 360, and didn't touch anyone. If Dexter is incapable, they all are.

Regardless, when you run low, with patience, carry people for yards after contact, do not fumble, and can break it at any time, you play in the NFL as a RB. And he will. And it will be for longer than those mentioned IMO.

Literally no one is arguing you about length of NFL career among these guys. No one is saying he can't catch. No one is saying he hasn't improved his pass pro.

Like, holy fuck dude, you really think everyone is always attacking you. I just pointed out that his sample size for receiving is very low, and that is (whether justified or not) something that scouts will look at in a negative way for him. Shit, it happened to Adams, who had 21 receptions in a season for 200 yards. Oh right, you don't like Adams so you'll say something negative about that stat too...

Point is, this is a forum for discussion, and you always assume it's "Koon against the world" whenever someone says something not in line with your views. You've twisted everyone else's posts.

 

[koonja]

Literally no one is arguing you about length of NFL career among these guys. No one is saying he can't catch. No one is saying he hasn't improved his pass pro.

Like, holy fuck dude, you really think everyone is always attacking you. I just pointed out that his sample size for receiving is very low, and that is (whether justified or not) something that scouts will look at in a negative way for him. Shit, it happened to Adams, who had 21 receptions in a season for 200 yards. Oh right, you don't like Adams so you'll say something negative about that stat too...

Point is, this is a forum for discussion, and you always assume it's "Koon against the world" whenever someone says something not in line with your views. You've twisted everyone else's posts.

I don't think anyone is attacking me, I have no hard feelings about this topic. I just think you guys are overstating how much his "lack" of hands/blocking are an issue, and how much they'll impact him in the NFL.

It's the difference of about ~1 round, MAYBE 2 IMO. There are 1st round talents that will get pushed back because they haven't shown they're complete, and guys that have moved up because they've shown they are.

And he's a 4th round RB if I had to guess way too early. He'll get drafted and he'll stick IMO.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Jafar is athletic but Jamir Smith already runs through tackles better than Jafar.

He won't be a NFL RB. doesn't mean he can't be a good college RB. Let's pin this post and shelf it for 2 years.

So our RS Freshman RB who just converted positions has shown us enough to forecast his career?

Kewlz. Kuhn is on FI-YA

 

[ACamp1900]

 

[Irish YJ]

Predicting anything about Jafar beyond this year is nothing but a crap shoot given he's still learning.

I will predict and bet that Dex will end the year with the highest yards per carry average.

 

[koonja]

So our RS Freshman RB who just converted positions has shown us enough to forecast his career?

Kewlz. Kuhn is on FI-YA

Talent is apparent, you don't need to see years of film to see who has it. I think he can be a good college RB, but I don't think he has NFL talent at RB.

We'll see - I'm really good at remembering posts from years ago, so I'll remind you to put the pie in my face when Jafar Armstrong gets drafted as a RB.

 

[Luckylucci]

As long as he can stay healthy, Dex can certainly carve out a career in the NFL.

With that said, I also think Jafar can as well. He's coming off his best game of his tenure at RB, against Wake, where he showed significant improvements. Provided he can get healthy, I expect you'll se more of that later on this season and into next year.

 

[Irish#1]

Talent is apparent, you don't need to see years of film to see who has it. I think he can be a good college RB, but I don't think he has NFL talent at RB.

We'll see - I'm really good at remembering posts from years ago, so I'll remind you to put the pie in my face when Jafar Armstrong gets drafted as a RB.

"I'm not a talent evaluator".........Koon

 

[koonja]

"I'm not a talent evaluator".........Koon

And I'm still always right. Imagine how much I'd make if I did this professionally. I'm just winging it and still killing it.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

As long as he can stay healthy, Dex can certainly carve out a career in the NFL.

With that said, I also think Jafar can as well. He's coming off his best game of his tenure at RB, against Wake, where he showed significant improvements. Provided he can get healthy, I expect you'll se more of that later on this season and into next year.

This is what i noticed as well. Jafar had more lean in his running. He was actually running through tackles and appeared to have a little more vision.

He certainly has the speed/athleticism. He just needs as many reps as possible since he recovers easily. Need him to get past this infection so he can continue growing. He's needed.

 

[Irish#1]

And I'm still always right. Imagine how much I'd make if I did this professionally. I'm just winging it and still killing it.

I don't know about killing it, but you're definitely winging it. #AMIRITE?

 

[NDRock]

I don't think anyone is attacking me, I have no hard feelings about this topic. I just think you guys are overstating how much his "lack" of hands/blocking are an issue, and how much they'll impact him in the NFL.

It's the difference of about ~1 round, MAYBE 2 IMO. There are 1st round talents that will get pushed back because they haven't shown they're complete, and guys that have moved up because they've shown they are.

And he's a 4th round RB if I had to guess way too early. He'll get drafted and he'll stick IMO.

Not sure if you ever listen to ex GM Michael Lombardi. He's on one of the Ringer Podcasts (GM Street). Anyway, his feeling regarding NFL RBs are apparent in this quote regarding Sony Michel:

“[Michel] is the prototypical NFL back.” Lombardi said. “He can catch the ball, he can impact the passing game. Remember how we have to evaluate running backs– it’s block, catch, run. It isn’t run, catch, block. And this kid blocks well. This kid can be impactful. I love this kid as a player.”

I've heard him say that before and found it interesting.

 

[NDinBoston]

I believe I read that ex-ND players (Deshone?) and current players were making fun of Dex's pass catching/route running and blocking skills. If I recall correctly it was a big joke how bad he is at those skillsets. Great runner though.

 

[T-Boone]

I just pointed out that his sample size for receiving is very low, and that is (whether justified or not) something that scouts will look at in a negative way for him.

Wouldn't he just say to the scouts: "the reason I don't get thrown many to is when I am out there I always JUST run it for 20 metres"

Has there been any stage during Dexters career where he has been out there and they have had to manufacture some way of getting him into the game?

 

[GowerND11]

Wouldn't he just say to the scouts: "the reason I don't get thrown many to is when I am out there I always JUST run it for 20 metres"

Has there been any stage during Dexters career where he has been out there and they have had to manufacture some way of getting him into the game?

It's not about manufacturing ways to get a guy into the game. And in the NFL you don't just rip off runs like you do in college. Catching the ball out of the backfield today is something scouts look for. Is it the end all be all? No way. However, you better believe Barkley is more valuable due to his pass catching, than if he couldn't. Makes him more dangerous, gets the ball in more space, allows for matchups with smaller corners outside to take on than DL. Also, matchups with LBs on routes are mismatches.

 

[Irish YJ]

Hope Dex catches 10 balls this weekend so we can all jump on the train, and rename him Dexterous.

 

[PANDFAN]

It's not about manufacturing ways to get a guy into the game. And in the NFL you don't just rip off runs like you do in college. Catching the ball out of the backfield today is something scouts look for. Is it the end all be all? No way. However, you better believe Barkley is more valuable due to his pass catching, than if he couldn't. Makes him more dangerous, gets the ball in more space, allows for matchups with smaller corners outside to take on than DL. Also, matchups with LBs on routes are mismatches.

this is exactly why alvin karma is dangerous

 

[GowerND11]

this is exactly why alvin karma is dangerous

Bingo. Same with Kareem Hunt, though Maholmes hasn't been targeting him as much as Smith did.

 

[arrowryan]

I'm watching the condensed version of the Stanford game. During the PA touchdown pass to Weisher, Dex had to stick his nose in front of a blitzing linebacker. When I say that he got put on his ass, I mean that in the most literal way as possible. Its around the 8:00 mark in the video.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sNfQfLOxbO8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So yes, he had a great game but pass pro is still suspect. I don't expect him to block a linebacker for 5 seconds. But he literally was on the ground in less than a second.

 

[GowerND11]

I'm watching the condensed version of the Stanford game. During the PA touchdown pass to Weisher, Dex had to stick his nose in front of a blitzing linebacker. When I say that he got put on his ass, I mean that in the most literal way as possible. Its around the 8:00 mark in the video.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sNfQfLOxbO8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So yes, he had a great game but pass pro is still suspect. I don't expect him to block a linebacker for 5 seconds. But he literally was on the ground in less than a second.

To his credit, he at least did something there. Slowed that linebacker up enough for the throw.

 

[koonja]

I'm watching the condensed version of the Stanford game. During the PA touchdown pass to Weisher, Dex had to stick his nose in front of a blitzing linebacker. When I say that he got put on his ass, I mean that in the most literal way as possible. Its around the 8:00 mark in the video.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sNfQfLOxbO8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So yes, he had a great game but pass pro is still suspect. I don't expect him to block a linebacker for 5 seconds. But he literally was on the ground in less than a second.

No RB's are taking on a blitzing LB one on one and holding their own. At least 98% of them aren't, and Tony Jones Jr and Jafar Armstrong sure as hell aren't.

One on one blitzing LBs? All coaches are hoping for is that you find the right guy and slow them down. Dexter did just that no matter how it looked.

It's ridiculous is anyone is expecting a blitzing LB to be stoned 1:1 vs. a RB. No coach expects that. If Dexter (or any RB for that matter) can find the guy and slow him down every time, I'll take that 10 out of 10 times.

But on that note, did you happen to find the video against Stanford where Tony Jones just runs the the LOS and does a 360, not finding or touching anyone? And Jafar has been by far the worst in pass pro. But he gets a pass because the mob mentality is "attack Dexter because we've heard others do it".

None of our RBs are great at pass pro. Can we start sharing the blame and stop dogging the only guy who's actually running the ball like a boss?

 

[Irish YJ]

The fact Book makes quick decisions/passes, lessens the impact of crappy blocks by RBs. Doesn't help Dex's NFL stock, but his upside in the rushing game outweighs the risk for a quick release QB.

 

[arrowryan]

No RB's are taking on a blitzing LB one on one and holding their own. At least 98% of them aren't, and Tony Jones Jr and Jafar Armstrong sure as hell aren't.

One on one blitzing LBs? All coaches are hoping for is that you find the right guy and slow them down. Dexter did just that no matter how it looked.

It's ridiculous is anyone is expecting a blitzing LB to be stoned 1:1 vs. a RB. No coach expects that. If Dexter (or any RB for that matter) can find the guy and slow him down every time, I'll take that 10 out of 10 times.

But on that note, did you happen to find the video against Stanford where Tony Jones just runs the the LOS and does a 360, not finding or touching anyone?

And Jafar has been by far the worst in pass pro. But he gets a pass because the mob mentality is "attack Dexter because we've heard others do it".

Like I said originally, I'm not expecting Dex to stop the linebacker dead in his tracks and pancake him. But, at the very least, he needs to stay on his feet for a few seconds. Did you watch the video? He was on his ass as soon as the linebacker touched him. I think the only reason it didn't turn into a sack, scramble, or throw away was because the route was so short and Book didn't have to wait long.

And since Dex is a prototypical NFL running back, most (maybe all) NFL starting running backs would hold their own for at least a few seconds in that scenario.

I appreciate Dex using his body like a sacrificial lamb, but I thought he would last longer than that.

Who knows, maybe the coaching staff doesn't do Backs vs Backers in camp. I know some NFL teams do. Maybe they should start doing that.

 

[koonja]

Like I said originally, I'm not expecting Dex to stop the linebacker dead in his tracks and pancake him. But, at the very least, he needs to at least stay on his feet for a few seconds. Did you watch the video? He was on his ass as soon as the linebacker touched him. I think the only reason it didn't turn into a sack, scramble, or throw away was because the route was so short and Book didn't have to wait long.

And since Dex is a prototypical NFL running back, most (maybe all) NFL starting running backs would hold their own for at least a few seconds in that scenario.

I appreciate Dex using his body like a sacrificial lamb, but I thought he would last longer than that.

Who knows, maybe the coaching staff doesn't do Backs vs Backers in camp. I know some NFL teams do. Maybe they should start doing that.

This is untrue. Plays last start to finish ~5 seconds. The 2nd half of the pass play is the ball traveling in the air and whatever happens after the catch.

He absolutely does not have to hold a block, 1:1, from a blitzing LB for a few seconds. He has to find his guy and slow him down -- if the coaches expected anything more in that case, the RB would be sharing a double team, not 1:1 in open space. He did exactly what he needed to do.

No. I'm not saying it couldn't be better, but "a few seconds" is a completely unreasonable expectation in this case. Find your guy, slow him down, and the coaches are happy in this case.

If this was on the edge where half of the field is taken away, it's a different story because you can push a guy out and hold him for ~1-2 seconds. But this is up the middle where the LB is coming with a full head of steam and you have to be ready for him to go left or right. An actual center would be at a disadvantage in this case, let alone the RB.

 

[arrowryan]

I guess we'll just have agree to disagree here, Koon and thats okay. I know that pointing out pass pro can seem a little knit picky, but it sure as heck is something scouts looks at. At the end of the day, Dex is still bringing a new dimension to the running game and it was refreshing to see on Saturday.

 

[koonja]

I guess we'll just have agree to disagree here, Koon and thats okay. I know that pointing out pass pro can seem a little knit picky, but it sure as heck is something scouts looks at. At the end of the day, Dex is still bringing a new dimension to the running game and it was refreshing to see on Saturday.

That's fine, and I don't mean to get hung up on your "a few seconds" point, I don't think we realize how quickly plays actually are.

He could do better. But 1:1 vs. edge rusher where you have the outside to force them is tough enough for a RB. Up the middle where the LB is the one with momentum and can go either side? That's an impossible spot for a RB and I truly believe all you can do is square up and take the hit to slow them down.

If the RB in that situation braces up to really put their foot in the ground and hold them up, they risk "guessing wrong" because they have to hedge to one side or the other, and that's a 50/50 on good block vs. complete wiff.

Yeah it didn't look pretty and he looks like he got his @ss kicked, and I'm sure it made for funny GIFs around the internet, but he did what he had to do.