'14 TX LB Kolin Hill (Texas Tech Transfer)

[woolybug25]

To answer your first question about the 3 guys. Obviously it can be done. Nobody said that it was impossible. But the initial post that I spoke about was projecting Kolin Hill going forward and on a pretty unanimous level if you are projecting a 6'2 240lb pass rusher, they are better suited in a 3-4 OLB role. On this post specifically, I bolded some thoughts. Lastly, I did say in my post that you can have a lot of success in college but not as much of a chance in the pros. Then I said its in his best interest to learn the 3-4 OLB role since he'll most likely end up there if he has aspirations after college. If we're talking just about how this affects ND he could be a great college DE but I really don't see him making the transition to SAM that takes away his best trait.

It wasn't referring to your posts specifically, but regarding the other posts regarding his projection at Notre Dame. Which I believe is still a pass rushing DE, regardless of scheme.

Regarding your highlights, not sure why one of the admittingly "in the league" guys I noted, struggling has any relevance. He's still in the league, and he is obviously the outlier, considering everyone else I listed is pretty successful (unintentional). There are a lot of perfectly sized players that struggle learning new systems too.

Regarding the highlighted guys in this year's draft. Jeffcoat was really successful in college and Sam wasn't drafted late because of lack of talent, let's be real. He is a former SEC defensive player of the year.

Hill is probably better suited size wise in a 3-4, given. That being said, he wouldn't be the first undersized pass rusher in college playing in a 4-3.

 

[Luckylucci]

It wasn't referring to your posts specifically, but regarding the other posts regarding his projection at Notre Dame. Which I believe is still a pass rushing DE, regardless of scheme.

Regarding your highlights, not sure why one of the admittingly "in the league" guys I noted, struggling has any relevance. He's still in the league, and he is obviously the outlier, considering everyone else I listed is pretty successful (unintentional). There are a lot of perfectly sized players that struggle learning new systems too.

Regarding the highlighted guys in this year's draft. Jeffcoat was really successful in college and Sam wasn't drafted late because of lack of talent, let's be real. He is a former SEC defensive player of the year.

Hill is probably better suited size wise in a 3-4, given. That being said, he wouldn't be the first undersized pass rusher in college playing in a 4-3.

Thats exactly what we were saying, I'm glad we agree. Nobody said anything about it not being done. I really hope we play Kolin at DE in our new scheme because I think thats his best chance for collegiate success.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

In my defense, I never stated that I felt Kolin would be a starter/All-American. I simply said I felt he'll have a good career at ND. And I based that opinion on the fact that BVG is more aggressive getting after the QB than Diaco was (which is Kolin's biggest asset).

Edit: I completely agree with those saying he may be best suited for a sub-package on passing downs. We'll see how it all pans out.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

None of those guys were even close to that weight when they were 17 years old. That's their NFL playing weight. Hill is probably already heavier than 220 at this point as well.

There are plenty guys in the NFL with lesser names like Shea McClellin (6'3"/252), Kyle Wilbur (6'4"/250) and Jonathan Massaquoi (6'2"/254) that are in the league at lower weights too.

Finally, look at this year's draft class of DE's. There certainly were a lot of undersized DE's in it. So there is certainly evidence of undersized DE's succeeding at the college level.

Dee Ford - 6'2"/252
Jackson Jeffcoat - 6'3"/247
Michael Sam - 6'2"/261
Johnathon Newsome - 6'3"/247

Right now, Kolin is just a kid. He has a frame that you can add a significant amount of weight too as well. I expect him to get to campus over 230 and end his career even higher. Is he undersized? Yes... but there are a ton of guys that traveled down the path in front of him successfully.

Dee Ford is exactly who comes to mind when I watch Hill. I don't know if he has quite the same burst and will need to put some weight on but Hill looks like an animal.

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Irish A-to-Z: Kolin Hill <a href="http://t.co/HA2U9Ev110">http://t.co/HA2U9Ev110</a></p>— Keith Arnold (@KeithArnold) <a href="https://twitter.com/KeithArnold/statuses/488303162965504002">July 13, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Could be one of the guys who really benefits from the BVG/Diaco change.

 

[GoldenDomer]

Cant wait to the days where guys like Kolin and Nyles own the defense.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Boy this thread has come full circle in five weeks!

 

[IrishLax]

Hill can play either WDE or SAM in a 4-3.

To play WDE, he needs to be at minimum 240+ and ideally 250+.

SAM is more interesting...
1. On passing downs and against spread teams you often just pull the SAM off the field for a nickel CB.
2. Against spread teams where you don't go nickel, you usually use a "big safety" in the SAM role.
3. Against power teams like Stanford, you have to play a bigger linebacker at SAM or they will just get run over. This is where someone like Hill who can be strong at the point of attack and disruptive has a lot of value.
4. When using the SAM as a pass rusher, it doesn't really matter what kind of team you're playing against. But if the opposition knows he can only rush/play the run and can't cover that can be a liability in your scheme.

So I see his initial fit being use as a situational pass rusher from a LB position (or with his hand on the dirt if we walk him up)... then depending on growth and what he shows in terms of speed/athleticism as a LB (all big question marks right now... for all we know he's fluid and athletic and a great LB prospect) will probably determine whether he ends up full time as a DE or LB or somewhere inbetween.

Of all the comparisons, Prince Shembo who was 6'2" 230 coming out of HS might be the best one. No one knew if Prince would play ILB/OLB/DE... and ultimately I think Hill is in a similar position of flexibility, though he won't play ILB in this 4-3.

 

[stlnd01]

Of all the comparisons, Prince Shembo who was 6'2" 230 coming out of HS might be the best one. No one knew if Prince would play ILB/OLB/DE... and ultimately I think Hill is in a similar position of flexibility, though he won't play ILB in this 4-3.

Have always felt like his game has a lot in common with Shembo's. I realize he'll be in a somewhat different system, but in my mind there's always a place on the field for a guy who can get after the quarterback from the edge.

 

[irishfan]

Have always felt like his game has a lot in common with Shembo's. I realize he'll be in a somewhat different system, but in my mind there's always a place on the field for a guy who can get after the quarterback from the edge.

Think he has a very similar frosh year to Shembo. Just get after the QB on 3rd down and dont worry about anything else yet.

 

[dublinirish]

i sincerely hope Hill turns out to be better than Shembo. Always felt he was wasted at OLB in the 3-4 while at ND.

 

[dwshade]

i sincerely hope Hill turns out to be better than Shembo. Always felt he was wasted at OLB in the 3-4 while at ND.

How was he wasted? Just asking.

 

[Irishman77]

If shembo was given the green light to attack every play his production would have doubled. Diaco s mantra of pass rushers need to be defensive backs and defensive backs to be nuclear physicists stunk the place up! Time for some football!

 

[Luckylucci]

If shembo was given the green light to attack every play his production would have doubled. Diaco s mantra of pass rushers need to be defensive backs and defensive backs to be nuclear physicists stunk the place up! Time for some football!

Not reality in the slightest but believe what you want. Shembo just never developed as a pass rusher the way the staff would've like. Its just that simple. Didn't have ideal measureables for the position and was never able to overcome that with an advanced skillset. However, his great motor gave us decent production.

 

[pkt77242]

If shembo was given the green light to attack every play his production would have doubled. Diaco s mantra of pass rushers need to be defensive backs and defensive backs to be nuclear physicists stunk the place up! Time for some football!

I find it funny how in 2012 Diaco was some amazing DC but in 2013 he made it too difficult for the players and held them back. I can not believe the amount of shit that has been piled on him since he left. SMDH.

 

[Irishman77]

I find it funny how in 2012 Diaco was some amazing DC but in 2013 he made it too difficult for the players and held them back. I can not believe the amount of shit that has been piled on him since he left. SMDH.

Sorry, just not a fan of the bend then break defense. I prefer BVG's system and look fwd to it!

 

[Luckylucci]

Sorry, just not a fan of the bend then break defense. I prefer BVG's system and look fwd to it!

I understand that but the CAT LB and Shembo had nothing to do with that part of the scheme. Shembo was an OLB/DE thats primary goal was creating pressure and setting the edge. Also, I do expect a more exciting D with BVG which might be more fun to watch but from a PPG perspective, over a 4 year stretch, Diaco had one of the best ND D's in something like 30 years. Don't know the exact stat, Lou at BGI pulled it awhile back, but it was a very impressive run.

 

[GoldenDomer]

Sorry, just not a fan of the bend then break defense. I prefer BVG's system and look fwd to it!

Preeeeeeeeach

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I find it funny how in 2012 Diaco was some amazing DC but in 2013 he made it too difficult for the players and held them back. I can not believe the amount of shit that has been piled on him since he left. SMDH.

To me it wasn't that "he made things too difficult."

A) He knew his talent was at 80% with injuries in '13, prior to the season. And he made no accommodation. To two gap you have to be 100%, and even then you are more prone to injury than if you one gap.

B) What he did, for the whole game against Navy in '13 was unforgivable. He had the players all either stand up or play a neutral passive game, waiting for the option, and didn't even assign a player for the pitch man. So he stressed the outside man with having to take two men, which is tactically stupid and injury-wise dangerous. What if Jaylon Smith went down in that game? Also, as soon as Navy saw the passive approach of our d-linemen, they changed to a straight man on zone blocking scheme. After seeing these things did he change anything? No. He just left everything the same. This cost us how many defensive linemen? It also cost us the Pittsburg game. I do not believe we would have lost against Pitt in '13 if Diaco hadn't fed our defense to the meat grinder the week before.

So I don't know how to evaluate or answer your comment. In '12 he had the horses and the leadership. In '13 he new he didn't have a healthy cohort. Did he adapt?

BVG won the Broyles award twice. Not just in a season he had a mondo-defense.

 

[Irishman77]

I understand that but the CAT LB and Shembo had nothing to do with that part of the scheme. Shembo was an OLB/DE thats primary goal was creating pressure and setting the edge. Also, I do expect a more exciting D with BVG which might be more fun to watch but from a PPG perspective, over a 4 year stretch, Diaco had one of the best ND D's in something like 30 years. Don't know the exact stat, Lou at BGI pulled it awhile back, but it was a very impressive run.

I do agree with everything you said, however...that same system kept the d on the field way too long and every single week was a razor thin barn burner. Navy kicked our asses up and down the field last year with this system. Their points were down and so was ours. Our overall record is not that impressive in those years you mention.

It's sports and okay to disagree , but I hated the wait and see approach to defense.
1. Kept d on field too long and our offense out of rythem.
2. Kept our best athletes off the field dur to the complexity
3. Every game was stroke alert as we played down to our opponents level regardless of whom we played because we were waiting for them to do whatever they wanted to do.
4. Greatly reduced amount of emotional play opportunities that swing games the other way.
5.lack of big plays led to less on field leadership

I will leave it there and not get into how Diaco landed very few recruits and it seems we missed the boat countless times on his height fetish.

 

[IrishLax]

I find it funny how in 2012 Diaco was some amazing DC but in 2013 he made it too difficult for the players and held them back. I can not believe the amount of shit that has been piled on him since he left. SMDH.

Yeah, IMO, Diaco is a borderline elite defensive mind. His one obvious flaw is that he's basically a one-trick pony that doesn't know how to defend option offenses, etc.

My goodness was he good though against traditional offenses. His system did an incredible job of protecting DBs and keeping points down. And people forget that even in 2010 sans Tuitt and Nix and all-world Manti his defense led the way on an incredible close to the season.

The biggest flaw he had as a CFB coach was obviously his recruiting. It's fine to recruit to a profile... but if you're going to do that, work your ass off and hit your mark. Every depth hole on our roster right now is in the front 7, which was his purview.

 

[ThePiombino]

I find it funny how in 2012 Diaco was some amazing DC but in 2013 he made it too difficult for the players and held them back. I can not believe the amount of shit that has been piled on him since he left. SMDH.

2012's defense was the DIRECT result of a truly dominant D-line- healthy and disruptive for the large majority of the season. I'm sorry, but I believe Diaco was the beneficiary of the defense, not the other way around.

 

[IrishLax]

2012's defense was the DIRECT result of a truly dominant D-line- healthy and disruptive for the large majority of the season. I'm sorry, but I believe Diaco was the beneficiary of the defense, not the other way around.

But in 2010 he closed the season with...
3 points allowed against #15 Utah.
3 points allowed against Army (meh).
16 points allowed against USC (first win in forever).
17 points allowed against Miami (30-3 in 4th quarter).

That team had decent DBs but a very mediocre DL and LBs. And it had the worst version of true frosh Tommy Rees at the helm. In the other games earlier in the season, he likewise did well but showed serious flaws against mobile guys (Luck, Navy, Dennard).

In general, I think he was a very good DC. His issue is that he wasn't a 4-pitch kind of guy... he was a Mario Rivera type 1-pitch dude. So if you could hit that pitch (i.e. you were capable of picking up 3rd & moderate/3rd & short with your legs as a mobile QB or by extending the play) then his defense fell apart. But I think it's a bit of an overstatement to say he benefited from his defensive talent when he also admirably protected some very weak links (Farley, converted WR Jackson, converted RB Russel as first time DBs in 2012).

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Yeah, IMO, Diaco is a borderline elite defensive mind. His one obvious flaw is that he's basically a one-trick pony that doesn't know how to defend option offenses, etc.

My goodness was he good though against traditional offenses. His system did an incredible job of protecting DBs and keeping points down. And people forget that even in 2010 sans Tuitt and Nix and all-world Manti his defense led the way on an incredible close to the season.

The biggest flaw he had as a CFB coach was obviously his recruiting. It's fine to recruit to a profile... but if you're going to do that, work your ass off and hit your mark. Every depth hole on our roster right now is in the front 7, which was his purview.

Not only that but while he did play well against certain types of teams, our defense played disastrously others. I can't think of one game where we contained a true dual-threat QB. Even in 2012, while we were strong in the red zone, we allowed a lot of teams to put huge yardage numbers, struggled to get off the field, and didn't help the offense any with field position. Also, certain teams definitely had our defense figured out, especially Alabama.

Overall he did a good job at ND, but I wouldn't tag him as an elite defensive mind. Without the front 7 we had over the last few years (which we no longer have), his defensive style likely wouldn't have translated with the personnel we'll be fielding.

 

[pkt77242]

Not only that but while he did play well against certain types of teams, our defense played disastrously others. I can't think of one game where we contained a true dual-threat QB. Even in 2012, while we were strong in the red zone, we allowed a lot of teams to put huge yardage numbers, struggled to get off the field, and didn't help the offense any with field position. Also, certain teams definitely had our defense figured out, especially Alabama.

Overall he did a good job at ND, but I wouldn't tag him as an elite defensive mind. Without the front 7 we had over the last few years (which we no longer have), his defensive style likely wouldn't have translated with the personnel we'll be fielding.

Easy. Michigan 2012. Look at Robinson's stats

Michigan Wolverines vs. Notre Dame Fighting Irish - Box Score - September 22, 2012 - ESPN

 

[Grahambo]

Yeah, IMO, Diaco is a borderline elite defensive mind. His one obvious flaw is that he's basically a one-trick pony that doesn't know how to defend option offenses, etc.

My goodness was he good though against traditional offenses. His system did an incredible job of protecting DBs and keeping points down. And people forget that even in 2010 sans Tuitt and Nix and all-world Manti his defense led the way on an incredible close to the season.

The biggest flaw he had as a CFB coach was obviously his recruiting. It's fine to recruit to a profile... but if you're going to do that, work your ass off and hit your mark. Every depth hole on our roster right now is in the front 7, which was his purview.

To me it would seem that he would be better off in the pro's. Obviously wouldn't have to deal with recruiting high school kids and wouldn't have to truly deal with spread/option teams.

Not only that but while he did play well against certain types of teams, our defense played disastrously others. I can't think of one game where we contained a true dual-threat QB. Even in 2012, while we were strong in the red zone, we allowed a lot of teams to put huge yardage numbers, struggled to get off the field, and didn't help the offense any with field position. Also, certain teams definitely had our defense figured out, especially Alabama.

Overall he did a good job at ND, but I wouldn't tag him as an elite defensive mind. Without the front 7 we had over the last few years (which we no longer have), his defensive style likely wouldn't have translated with the personnel we'll be fielding.

In his defense, it's not as if he had burners in the LB corps/secondary that probably allowed him to play the defense he TRULY wanted. He did the best he could with the group he had. And it was a damn fine job.

 

[dublinirish]

How was he wasted? Just asking.

he should have been an ILB from the start, he was only playing OLB because Ishaq proved ineffective. Don't get me wrong he did his best at OLB and had a decent career but look at him now on the Falcons he was there for a couple of mini camp days and immediately they moved him to ILB.

 

[Buster Bluth]

he should have been an ILB from the start, he was only playing OLB because Ishaq proved ineffective. Don't get me wrong he did his best at OLB and had a decent career but look at him now on the Falcons he was there for a couple of mini camp days and immediately they moved him to ILB.

 

[stlnd01]

he should have been an ILB from the start, he was only playing OLB because Ishaq proved ineffective. Don't get me wrong he did his best at OLB and had a decent career but look at him now on the Falcons he was there for a couple of mini camp days and immediately they moved him to ILB.

Shembo was playing OLB a year before Ishaq even showed up on campus. Maybe if Ishaq had blown up the joint his freshman or sophomore year, you could have moved Shembo to ILB. But frankly the dude's strength in college was as a pass rusher, as opposed to a read-and-react run-stopper like Calabrese or in pass coverage like Fox, and he was pretty good on the edge.
In the NFL he doesn't have the size for that job, so it makes sense to try ILB. But I wouldn't knock Diaco (or Ishaq) over playing him outside in college.

Re: Diaco. Probably best for all involved that he moved on. It was time for a change and as others have said, he was something of a one-trick pony with an overly rigid approach to personnel. But give the guy some credit, that trick worked pretty well, and he developed some of the best front seven players we've had in a long time.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Diaco did a phenomenal job in 2012, and even though he can use injuries as an excuse, he did an absolutely shitty job in 2013. Like players, coaches can have off years too IMHO. I feel that he got lazy in 2013 and had eyes on a head coaching job. His adjustments were non-existent and many of his game plans were poor (see: Navy and Michigan). And don't even get me started on his lack of recruiting.

I agree with some here that Diaco is getting too much heat and people are forgetting what a good job he did before last season. But I'm glad he's gone, personally. I've heard stories of his selfishness last year (again, eyes on a head coaching gig, so keeping points down for stats purposes was more important than taking chances and getting the ball back to the offense) and also that his players couldn't stand him (trust me on this one).

I will always appreciate Diaco for what he did, but I'm looking forward to the BVG era...