'09 HI LB Manti Te'o (Notre Dame Man)

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Politics aside, Manti is one of ours, and unless this documentary breaks some completely narrative-altering facts, Tuiasosopo is a f*cking creep who willfully destroyed the reputation of the one of the best LBs in NDFB history. I don't care how trendy his mental illness currently might be, anyone here inclined to side with him over Manti ought to go root for another team.

Dude, depression is so hip, though.

 

[Blazers46]

I don’t side with him/her/tbd? but I think we also have to recognize that if they were trans, they were working through some shit and it probably wasn’t as malicious as it was originally believed to be. It wasn’t “Guy pretends to be girl for shits and giggles.”

He used another woman's photo. Then pretended to die. Gender dysphoria and his mental health is one thing, pretending to be ANOTHER person is another and then faking your death is just crazy. Just break up with the dude.

I am curious what sort of light this dude will be presented. Its 2022, this dude checks all the boxes to be untouchable and beyond reproach. Just a misguided queer with a lack resources in 2012.

 

[INLaw]

He used another woman's photo. Then pretended to die. Gender dysphoria and his mental health is one thing, pretending to be ANOTHER person is another and then faking your death is just crazy. Just break up with the dude.

I am curious what sort of light this dude will be presented. Its 2022, this dude checks all the boxes to be untouchable and beyond reproach. Just a misguided queer with a lack resources in 2012.

I am always amazed by the gender disphoric who enter the public sphere and either use it as career advancement, achievement advancement, or a culpability shield are never the ones who actually take the hormones or get the cut but are more than willing to push permanent physical altering methods on confused minors. Rear admiral Levine, UPenn swimmer even Trans Jenner would be way more sympathetic with some proof of all in. Otherwise seems about as earnest as Senator Warren’s trial of tears adventure.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

He used another woman's photo. Then pretended to die. Gender dysphoria and his mental health is one thing, pretending to be ANOTHER person is another and then faking your death is just crazy. Just break up with the dude.

I am curious what sort of light this dude will be presented. Its 2022, this dude checks all the boxes to be untouchable and beyond reproach. Just a misguided queer with a lack resources in 2012.

I mean you literally say here, "mental health is one thing" but X things they did are "just crazy." Correct. They are mentally ill!

That doesn't change how I feel about their actions, but it certainly does change somewhat how I feel about their personal moral culpability. How could it not?

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Explain this!! Guy is one of the best to ever put on an ND uniform, his grandma died, his girlfriend dies, he’s a Heisman finalist, plays/leads the Defense to a national title game, his dead girlfriend turns out to be fake… and you’re telling me Dante Moore still has more posts?

All you have to do is mention how good ketchup is. That will get things moving.

 

[Blazers46]

I mean you literally say here, "mental health is one thing" but X things they did are "just crazy." Correct. They are mentally ill!

That doesn't change how I feel about their actions, but it certainly does change somewhat how I feel about their personal moral culpability. How could it not?

Moral culpability? Are you suggesting that mentally ill people cannot or should not be held accountable for their immorality because they are crazy?

 

[House16]

Moral culpability? Are you suggesting that mentally ill people cannot or should not be held accountable for their immorality because they are crazy?

Is there much difference between "holding someone accountable for their immorality" and judging them, though? C.S. Lewis has a great metaphor about a race where everyone is given different cars; some are sports cars, others barely run at all. We're not supposed to judge how well others are racing because we don't know what kind of car they're driving. So, I wouldn't feel at all confident saying that Tuiasosopo is a "worse person" than me or you or anyone else. Maybe he's making a valiant effort to be a good person in spite of horrible mental illness, idk. Not that I do a good job of holding to this principle in my own life, but this is exactly why Jesus tells us not to judge, right? We're better off leaving that stuff to him.

 

[Blazers46]

Is there much difference between "holding someone accountable for their immorality" and judging them, though? C.S. Lewis has a great metaphor about a race where everyone is given different cars; some are sports cars, others barely run at all. We're not supposed to judge how well others are racing because we don't know what kind of car they're driving. So, I wouldn't feel at all confident saying that Tuiasosopo is a "worse person" than me or you or anyone else. Maybe he's making a valiant effort to be a good person in spite of horrible mental illness, idk. Not that I do a good job of holding to this principle in my own life, but this is exactly why Jesus tells us not to judge, right? We're better off leaving that stuff to him.

I honestly think if this person were straight we would not be having this conversation.

I think the most common mistake people make in biblical context is the judging part. Jesus tells us to tell others of their sins and hold them accountable, how can we do this without judging? I am no Biblical scholar but I think what is mean by "Do not judge" is that you are not the final judgment, the one to pass or condemn someone to Hell because Jesus is the ultimate judge. But its pretty clear in the Bible that we should use our common sense and own "judgement" of others. "Do not be unequally yoked", how can we follow this verse without some sort of judgement on our end? If someone shoots and kills another person do we stear clear of judgment? No... we judge them but do not condemn them to Hell. Do we try to figure what car they are driving or is that none of our business?

 

[House16]

I honestly think if this person were straight we would not be having this conversation.

I think the most common mistake people make in biblical context is the judging part. Jesus tells us to tell others of their sins and hold them accountable, how can we do this without judging? I am no Biblical scholar but I think what is mean by "Do not judge" is that you are not the final judgment, the one to pass or condemn someone to Hell because Jesus is the ultimate judge. But its pretty clear in the Bible that we should use our common sense and own "judgement" of others. "Do not be unequally yoked", how can we follow this verse without some sort of judgement on our end? If someone shoots and kills another person do we stear clear of judgment? No... we judge them but do not condemn them to Hell. Do we try to figure what car they are driving or is that none of our business?

Two thoughts here:

First, I think a key difference is whether we know the person who is sinning. If we know Tuiasosopo, then it's 100% our Christian duty to tell him he's out of line. But crucially, we really can't do that until we've shown him that we love him and care about him apart from this issue. I think if we stand from afar and tell someone they suck (or talk about them to others) then we're judging. But if we've shown someone we love them and want to help them do better because of that love, that's helping.

As far as the "do not be unequally yoked" verse, I'd argue that that's about not conforming to the culture, not about segregating Christians away from non-Christians. With Christ as our model, I think it's pretty clear we're supposed to authentically love non-Christians, and we're not supposed to judge them from afar and say okay we're not going to associate with you. You can associate with and love people without endorsing their actions or copying them.

IDK feel free to tell me this is mindless babble lol

 

[Irish#1]

I think it’s going to be interesting to see all the details of this story that we don’t really know. To me it’s a story of a naive dude who got caught in a con and didn’t know how to get out without making a mess of himself. Looking forward to it.

I think you have a good point. Simply because Manti is a great FB player doesn't mean he has the rest of the world figured out.

I remember seeing a clip of him in a drill as a freshman and he did it so quickly and effortlessly. My first thought was WOW, he's the real deal. He ranks right up there with Stonebreaker and Lynch.

IIRC shortly after this came out, the dude said something about knowing it was wrong, but decided to keep going with it. That's not crazy, or sexually confused. If in the show he says his sexuality played a part, then he's not telling the truth.

 

[Blazers46]

Two thoughts here:

First, I think a key difference is whether we know the person who is sinning. If we know Tuiasosopo, then it's 100% our Christian duty to tell him he's out of line. But crucially, we really can't do that until we've shown him that we love him and care about him apart from this issue. I think if we stand from afar and tell someone they suck (or talk about them to others) then we're judging. But if we've shown someone we love them and want to help them do better because of that love, that's helping.

As far as the "do not be unequally yoked" verse, I'd argue that that's about not conforming to the culture, not about segregating Christians away from non-Christians. With Christ as our model, I think it's pretty clear we're supposed to authentically love non-Christians, and we're not supposed to judge them from afar and say okay we're not going to associate with you. You can associate with and love people without endorsing their actions or copying them.

IDK feel free to tell me this is mindless babble lol

I get what you are saying. I would argue that we should know a sin from not a sin no matter the person/sinner. We can make our own judgment. In Biblical context I think just merely pointing out to someone (privately) what they are doing is wrong would be "out of love" no matter the relationship. If we are telling someone they suck I am pretty sure that is not what Jesus modeled for us, so then if our apporach is wrong we are wrong.

I agree with everything you said in the second paragraph. I can love someone but also say on a message board that his actions were wrong... no matter where he was coming from in life.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

Moral culpability? Are you suggesting that mentally ill people cannot or should not be held accountable for their immorality because they are crazy?

I think their moral culpability is diminished relative to the extent that their mental capacity is diminished, and that should get factor into how harshly they are judged.

I honestly think if this person were straight we would not be having this conversation.

We were having the conversation just fine when we all thought they were gay! But I think anyone has to acknowledge that the trans stuff goes a long way in explaining a hoax in which they crafted a fake female persona. Before that just came across as completely malicious and needless.

If grandpa has dementia and takes a dump on your couch, that's sad. If I take a dump on your couch, I'm just an asshole. The Te'o hoaxer was at full asshole, this revelation moves the needle closer to sad. Not at all the way! Maybe only half. But closer.

 

[TorontoGold]

Being trans does not mean you get a pass, this person is a fucking clown. You don't get to play the mental illness card when you plan and carry something out for so long. Fuck em forever, Manti is a king.

 

[Blazers46]

I think their moral culpability is diminished relative to the extent that their mental capacity is diminished, and that should get factor into how harshly they are judged.



We were having the conversation just fine when we all thought they were gay! But I think anyone has to acknowledge that the trans stuff goes a long way in explaining a hoax in which they crafted a fake female persona. Before that just came across as completely malicious and needless.

If grandpa has dementia and takes a dump on your couch, that's sad. If I take a dump on your couch, I'm just an asshole. The Te'o hoaxer was at full asshole, this revelation moves the needle closer to sad. Not at all the way! Maybe only half. But closer.

Is the thought trans = mental health issues? I see people say being trans is not an excuse but then people saying trans and/or/not mutually exclusive mental health as an excuse. I guess I am in the boat of trans/mental health but its not an excuse for what he did. But I think I said it... I am really curious if this trans redemption story disguised as a Teo redemption or tell all story. It would be so 2022 to play this out as a confused trans that used this adversity story for a greater good and now is full trans and should be celebrated.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

Is the thought trans = mental health issues? I see people say being trans is not an excuse but then people saying trans and/or/not mutually exclusive mental health as an excuse. I guess I am in the boat of trans/mental health but its not an excuse for what he did. But I think I said it... I am really curious if this trans redemption story disguised as a Teo redemption or tell all story. It would be so 2022 to play this out as a confused trans that used this adversity story for a greater good and now is full trans and should be celebrated.

I really hope that is not the angle the story takes…….no one should be celebrated for lying, especially when it ends up hurting someone else.

 

[notredomer23]

The Manti doc is on Netflix now. Watching now. Surprised how many people are featured in it. Lots of Swarbrick and Alex Flanagan so far.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

The Manti doc is on Netflix now. Watching now. Surprised how many people are featured in it. Lots of Swarbrick and Alex Flanagan so far.

Thanks for the heads up, looking forward to watching!

 

[DONTH8]

I'll have to watch it this weekend. I get Netflix one time a year... when Cobra Kai comes out. So this will actually line up perfectly with my time frame.

 

[du Lac]

Hoping it’s got some ND football hype in there. We could use some press.

 

[Mattmags]

I just watched the first 45 minutes of the first episode. If you watch the show with an open mind, you can see how many people could of fallen for this. However, Manti was a prime target for many reasons you'll see in the show; polynesian, faith driven, humble, far from home, etc... I'm even more sympathetic toward him now after watching some of this. Is he a victim of his own ignorance? Maybe. But you'll quickly see through the timeline of events that his generosity and kindness were his biggest attributes, as well as his biggest downfalls. I hope some of the people who criticized Manti and Notre Dame watch this and have some compassion for the terrible situation he was in.

 

[POTUS2017]

More heartbreaking for him and his family than I could have imagined. Wow

 

[laughingirish90]

haven't seen it but i'm not going to feel too sorry for the guy as he just recently earned millions in the NFL and just married a very nice looking lady within the last couple or so yrs ago from what i saw watching a small story about all this recently on youtube

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I'll have to watch it this weekend. I get Netflix one time a year... when Cobra Kai comes out. So this will actually line up perfectly with my time frame.

This is the best thing ever.

 

[dad4aa]

haven't seen it but i'm not going to feel too sorry for the guy as he just recently earned millions in the NFL and just married a very nice looking lady within the last couple or so yrs ago from what i saw watching a small story about all this recently on youtube

Terrible take. He did nothing wrong besides being too trusting and giving. Deadspin broke an article without all the facts and the mainstream media ran with it and never did any research. He was a victim but treated as a villain. This trans asshole cost him millions. He went from a high first round pick to the second round. If you watch the documentary you will see he also caused Teo huge mental issues (doubting everything he did) that hurt his play and shortened his career.

 

[WaveDomer]

We have to remember that during that time there was so much media hype with the story of Te'o and what was going on with him during that season. Remember that picture with beams of light shining down on him? That whole thing was a circus and that was before the story broke. Dude was in the running for the Heisman as a defensive player and people were pissed he didn't win. That's nuts. Picture riding that wave and then you find out you were conned? I can't imagine.

I actually was on a flight with Te'o not too long after he left ND. You could tell he was not loving being in public.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Man watching it now.... He still talks about this fictitious character as if she was real. Poor dude was fucking brain washed

 

[du Lac]

That creepy whatever pervert belongs in jail. It’s making me sick watching it.

 

[tussin]

Just finished it. Manti is a class act.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Tuiasasopo or however you spell it comes off as a psychopath IMO.

 

[tussin]

Tuiasasopo or however you spell it comes off as a psychopath IMO.

I was disappointed with the somewhat sympathetic edit he received.

That said, I think the doc is way more sympathetic to Manti and what he went through. Also not to excuse Manti’s naivety at the time, the doc also does a good job establishing the complexity of the con as well as the unique upbringing of Manti that made him a target.