2012 Starting Wide Recievers/ Tight Ends

[STLDomer]

Based on what

Just physically and I haven't heard anything about Brown having particularly good hands just great speed while ferguson brings YAC and a red zone threat

 

[NDPhilly]

Based on what

 

[TerryTate]

Just physically and I haven't heard anything about Brown having particularly good hands just great speed while ferguson brings YAC and a red zone threat

Brown is a top triple jumper in the country. He's 6' 2-3" 180+ lbs. If anything, we've heard Chris could play this season if he came into camp in shape. Not saying Ferguson can't - he's a big boy, but an additional 20 lbs doesn't mean he's more ready for the college game.

 

[Irish Fam]

Roby Toma is not an every down player. Period. He's the kind of guy that if you have a A- athletic CB (say, Nickell Robey) to mark him he's going to struggle to get open 1-on-1. Does a lot of stuff well, but he's limited.

I think you're going to see 8 total WRs used next year with 5 primary guys getting touches. TJ Jones, John Goodman, Roby Toma, Theo Riddick (as a flex RB/WR), DaVaris Daniels... and then Daniel Smith, Chris Brown, and Davonte Neal in situational capacities that evolve as the year goes on. Maybe not on Brown/Smith, but I am absolutely sure Davonte Neal will get touches.

Im curious as to why you think Toma can't get open against a solid cb.

I know he isn't the most athletic player on the team, but he is plenty athletic to get a yard or two of seperation which is all it takes to be open enough to throw to

 

[TerryTate]

Im curious as to why you think Toma can't get open against a solid cb.

I know he isn't the most athletic player on the team, but he is plenty athletic to get a yard or two of seperation which is all it takes to be open enough to throw to

He also found the soft areas in coverage better than any of our other receivers. He's not afraid to go over the middle either

 

[STLDomer]

Im curious as to why you think Toma can't get open against a solid cb.

I know he isn't the most athletic player on the team, but he is plenty athletic to get a yard or two of seperation which is all it takes to be open enough to throw to

I agree Toma made some acrobatic tough catches on the sideline while covered, he won't be held back

 

[IrishLax]

Brown but not Ferguson? I think Brown needs a year while Ferguson is physically ready now

Eh, define physically ready. Yeah, Ferguson is more filled out... but how is he going to unseat even, say, John Goodman? There is no discriminating characteristic in his talents that is going to get him, as a frosh, on the field over some upperclassmen. I just don't see it. Of course I could be wrong, that goes without saying. I just don't see him being an impact player this year as a true frosh.

I think Brown might redshirt. That's been talked about a lot. He needs to get thicker, sure. But what Brown has that literally zero of our other WRs have except for maybe DaVaris Daniels is a blend of speed, height, and overall athleticism. That's what could get him on the field. Let's say you end going with a guy like Golson who has the arm to actually stretch the field... you want guys out who run a 4.4 and can get behind coverage on certain plays instead of, say, Roby Toma. That's how he ends up getting on the field.

 

[Irish Fam]

He also found the soft areas in coverage better than any of our other receivers. He's not afraid to go over the middle either

I agree Toma made some acrobatic tough catches on the sideline while covered, he won't be held back

Exactly. I would love to have a receiver than can get 5 yards of seperation on a fly route, but i will take a Toma type receiver who understands where the weak spots are and exploits the defense. Whether the defense is in zone or in man, he seems to find a way to make himself available to the qb.

 

[IrishLax]

Im curious as to why you think Toma can't get open against a solid cb.

I know he isn't the most athletic player on the team, but he is plenty athletic to get a yard or two of seperation which is all it takes to be open enough to throw to

Anecdotally, he disappeared against Florida State and was only really effective throughout the year when his job was to find soft spots in the zone. You watch the plays he did make and they were always against either off coverage or where he worked his way open against a zone... I can't remember a single play where he beat his man a la TJ Jones or Mike Floyd. Then again, I could be wrong and be mis-remembering things. The season ended awhile ago.

I just don't see how at 5'8" and quick he gets open against, say, Ricardo Allen of Purdue or any above average CB who is both quick and fast. Yeah, maybe for underneath plays and certain routes he can.... but he lacks the overall skill set and athleticism to be an every down impact player. It's painfully obvious.

 

[IrishLax]

Exactly. I would love to have a receiver than can get 5 yards of seperation on a fly route, but i will take a Toma type receiver who understands where the weak spots are and exploits the defense. Whether the defense is in zone or in man, he seems to find a way to make himself available to the qb.

This is exactly why, IMO, he's not an every down player. You put him on the field and he can run half the routes that a complete/less physically limited WR can.

 

[STLDomer]

Eh, define physically ready. Yeah, Ferguson is more filled out... but how is he going to unseat even, say, John Goodman? There is no discriminating characteristic in his talents that is going to get him, as a frosh, on the field over some upperclassmen. I just don't see it. Of course I could be wrong, that goes without saying. I just don't see him being an impact player this year as a true frosh.

I think Brown might redshirt. That's been talked about a lot. He needs to get thicker, sure. But what Brown has that literally zero of our other WRs have except for maybe DaVaris Daniels is a blend of speed, height, and overall athleticism. That's what could get him on the field. Let's say you end going with a guy like Golson who has the arm to actually stretch the field... you want guys out who run a 4.4 and can get behind coverage on certain plays instead of, say, Roby Toma. That's how he ends up getting on the field.

Nobody this year brings the YAC that Michael Floyd Did last year, Ferguson can try. I think both play and can unseat Goodman and Smith by mid-year ( good teammates especially Goodman, talents just not their)

What Kelly said: Ferguson brings YAC, potential to be a great one, Brown hasn't reached his big potential

To me this says Ferguson > Brown for at least this year

 

[Irish Fam]

Anecdotally, he disappeared against Florida State and was only really effective throughout the year when his job was to find soft spots in the zone. You watch the plays he did make and they were always against either off coverage or where he worked his way open against a zone... I can't remember a single play where he beat his man a la TJ Jones or Mike Floyd. Then again, I could be wrong and be mis-remembering things. The season ended awhile ago.

I just don't see how at 5'8" and quick he gets open against, say, Ricardo Allen of Purdue or any above average CB who is both quick and fast. Yeah, maybe for underneath plays and certain routes he can.... but he lacks the overall skill set and athleticism to be an every down impact player. It's painfully obvious.

This is exactly why, IMO, he's not an every down player. You put him on the field and he can run half the routes that a complete/less physically limited WR can.

I definitely get what you are saying. However, he had limited game experience and still found a way to make very needed plays for us. I in no way mean to imply that he is a game breaking player, but I think that he can be a very valuable receiver for us.

The every down receiver thing might be a bit to complicated to say he is or isn't. I don't think there is a single wr on our team that is an every down receiver. I don't believe that we have an every down wr on our time (maybe TJ). Either way, I really like what Toma brings to the table and I believe that if we can find a qb that can properly read a defense Toma will end up with more catches/yards/tds. He is quick enough and runs good enough routes to get the little seperation needed to give an accurate qb the room to hit him with a pass.

 

[STLDomer]

Picture won't work :/

On the Toma every down thing. No one except Eifert, the QB, the O-Line, Te'o, Motta, And Slaughter will play lets say over 90% of the plays. Lots of rotation

 

[Brooklyn]

Neal needs to get plays. He doesnt need to know anything about the system or route running, just set up WR screens for him and let him do his thing, until he learns the position better. But he is too good to sit.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

Eh, define physically ready. Yeah, Ferguson is more filled out... but how is he going to unseat even, say, John Goodman? There is no discriminating characteristic in his talents that is going to get him, as a frosh, on the field over some upperclassmen. I just don't see it. Of course I could be wrong, that goes without saying. I just don't see him being an impact player this year as a true frosh.

I think Brown might redshirt. That's been talked about a lot. He needs to get thicker, sure. But what Brown has that literally zero of our other WRs have except for maybe DaVaris Daniels is a blend of speed, height, and overall athleticism. That's what could get him on the field. Let's say you end going with a guy like Golson who has the arm to actually stretch the field... you want guys out who run a 4.4 and can get behind coverage on certain plays instead of, say, Roby Toma. That's how he ends up getting on the field.

I hope to God he does, but IMO that's a 50/50 toss up.. I'm really excited to see what our WR's do next year.. with no MF, a lot more balls to be spread out.. also, hopefully no Tommy Rees eyeing down one receiver the entire game..errr..season.. if Rees plays, look for Eifert to be that guy who is stared down and thrown to 12-15 times per game.. damn, I can't wait for spring ball

 

[Irish YJ]

Just my thoughts.... I think at least 2, maybe even 3 true freshman with significant PT by mid season. I'm betting BK shakes up a few things with the new skill sets introduced by the incoming guys. () = at mid-season

WR1: DaVaris Daniels, John Goodman, Chris Brown (2)
WR2: Daniel Smith, Justin Ferguson (1), Luke Massa
WR3/Slot: Davonte Neal, TJ Jones, Rob Toma, Matthias Farley
WR4: Justin Ferguson, TJ Jones
WR5: John Goodman, Chris Brown (1)
TE1: Tyler Eifert, Ben Koyak
TE2: Ben Koyak, Alex Welch, Golic

I think Brown likely redshirts unless he comes into practice 10-15lbs heavier. The above assumes he does not redshirt.

 

[koonja]

Just my thoughts.... I think at least 2, maybe even 3 true freshman with significant PT by mid season. I'm betting BK shakes up a few things with the new skill sets introduced by the incoming guys. () = at mid-season

WR1: DaVaris Daniels, John Goodman, Chris Brown (2)
WR2: Daniel Smith, Justin Ferguson (1), Luke Massa
WR3/Slot: Davonte Neal, TJ Jones, Rob Toma, Matthias Farley
WR4: Justin Ferguson, TJ Jones
WR5: John Goodman, Chris Brown (1)
TE1: Tyler Eifert, Ben Koyak
TE2: Ben Koyak, Alex Welch, Golic

I think Brown likely redshirts unless he comes into practice 10-15lbs heavier. The above assumes he does not redshirt.

TJ Jones is a two year starter. You don't think he'll start, especially in a year where we have almost no experienced WRs?

 

[jmurphy75]

Seriously I will correct u again can u read? This is a WR thread not RB and WR.

If you are including slot receivers in this thread you might as well include RB's since their coached by the same positions coach this year and Kelly has said he wants them to be more interchangeable.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

i would also venture a guess that if DD doesnt see significant PT this year....
he gone.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

i would also venture a guess that if DD doesnt see significant PT this year....
he gone.

I'd say if DD doesn't see significant PT this year it's his fault for not working hard enough. He's got the skills and the PT is wide open.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

I'd say if DD doesn't see significant PT this year it's his fault for not working hard enough. He's got the skills and the PT is wide open.

agreed. i'm not saying he just deserves to be on the field. personal issues/work ethic/production--whatever.

all i'm saying is if he doesnt--he gone. he wont be another walker.

 

[Irish Fam]

3 WRs 1 TE: TJ, Davaris, Toma, Eifert
2 WRs 2TEs: TJ, Davaris, Eifert, Koyack
5 Wide: TJ, Davaris, Toma, Eifert, Goodman

 

[stlnd01]

I think we're going to see a whole lot of different people catching passes this year. The "three WRs, one TE, and that's it" of the first half of last year is (hopefully) through. Partly because of changes to the system, partly, I hope, because of more able QB play, partly because we have no dominant receiver to lean on like we had in Floyd. My guess is no dominant player emerges, but that we have a whole bunch of weapons, deployed all over the field.
They'll be:
Big guys: Daniels, Goodman, Smith, Ferguson
Slot/small outside guys: TJ, Toma, Neal
Slot/RB hybrids: Riddick, Carlisle (the NCAA willing), maybe even K Russel
TEs: Eifert, Koyack

 

[phgreek]

Just my thoughts.... I think at least 2, maybe even 3 true freshman with significant PT by mid season. I'm betting BK shakes up a few things with the new skill sets introduced by the incoming guys. () = at mid-season

WR1: DaVaris Daniels, John Goodman, Chris Brown (2)
WR2: Daniel Smith, Justin Ferguson (1), Luke Massa
WR3/Slot: Davonte Neal, TJ Jones, Rob Toma, Matthias Farley
WR4: Justin Ferguson, TJ Jones
WR5: John Goodman, Chris Brown (1)
TE1: Tyler Eifert, Ben Koyak
TE2: Ben Koyak, Alex Welch, Golic

I think Brown likely redshirts unless he comes into practice 10-15lbs heavier. The above assumes he does not redshirt.

not totally disagreeing here...but TJ will end up being the leading receiver this year, IMHO. His issues were concentration, not talent. I think he starts and has a breakout year...

 

[Irish YJ]

not totally disagreeing here...but TJ will end up being the leading receiver this year, IMHO. His issues were concentration, not talent. I think he starts and has a breakout year...

Hope you're on the money. I had high hopes, and still do for TJ. At 5-11 he's going to have to concentrate and have a break out spring to hold off the competition. He's definitely got skilzzzzz. I think the overall competition this year will be good for everyone.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

agreed. i'm not saying he just deserves to be on the field. personal issues/work ethic/production--whatever.

all i'm saying is if he doesnt--he gone. he wont be another walker.

Yea, I agree. We need him to step up big this year...

 

[NDhoosier]

I think we're going to see a whole lot of different people catching passes this year. The "three WRs, one TE, and that's it" of the first half of last year is (hopefully) through. Partly because of changes to the system, partly, I hope, because of more able QB play, partly because we have no dominant receiver to lean on like we had in Floyd. My guess is no dominant player emerges, but that we have a whole bunch of weapons, deployed all over the field.

I agree with this part. sometimes losing a superstar like Floyd elevates the entire WR corps and every steps up. A variety of weapons can be more dangerous than one super weapon because you have to plan for more than one weapon. Of course, this only holds true if a QB steps up and is able to manage the game, spread the field Vertically, etc.