A Measured Review of Kelly's First Two Recruiting Classes

[Bogtrotter07]

Hey two other things:

You could line Tyler up wide and still run a double tight end formation, no?

(I know you wouldn't want to.)

I can't tell you how many people that I have talked to in the last 48 think Dnglbry picked Houston, to stay safe until he could leave early for the NFL.

 

[NDPhilly]

Hey two other things:

You could line Tyler up wide and still run a double tight end formation, no?

(I know you wouldn't want to.)

I can't tell you how many people that I have talked to in the last 48 think Dnglbry picked Houston, to stay safe until he could leave early for the NFL.

What do you meen by stay safe?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

When you play at Notre Dame as wide receiver somone is trying to take your head off on every play: Rob Paris against USC in '09; Michael Floyd in every game especially the shot to the groin and ribs against FSU; TJ against Wake; etc, etc, so on and so forth.

Some people calculate that the punishment isn't worth it.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Well done Lax. Great insight. Go Irish!

 

[stlnd01]

When you play at Notre Dame as wide receiver somone is trying to take your head off on every play: Rob Paris against USC in '09; Michael Floyd in every game especially the shot to the groin and ribs against FSU; TJ against Wake; etc, etc, so on and so forth.

Some people calculate that the punishment isn't worth it.

Really? Is it any different than playing in the SEC, or against any other good, aggressive defense? (granted, there ain't a ton of those on Houston's schedule)
Greenberry may not have been a good fit for Notre Dame, but everything I've seen suggests he's certainly a competitor, not the type to back down from competition. And Greenberry's going to have to show some physicality if he's going to get to the NFL anyway. Because the safeties in the league hit a lot harder than they do at Wake Forest.

 

[Fbolt]

We're certainly dangerously thin at CB. You can assume that in any given season about one kid at each position (QB excluded) will go down with injury. So right now we only have 5 warm bodies which after injury will be 4 and many spread teams require us to use 3 CBs. So with any bad luck, we're left in a situation where we can barely field the required amount of guys... much less those who are ready to play.

Don't we have Josh Atkinson, Jalen Brown, Lo Wood, Eilar Hardy, Bennet Jx, and Tee? (6)

Yes, i would agree it's thin, but IMO, not dangerously thin. I certainly wish we would have been able to hang onto some CB's the last few classes-and despite BK and Staff's prediction that there are no holes to fill - I find this position as the most important for recruiting purposes.

 

[Fbolt]

I don't understand these two sentences in the context of the thread. We're talking about brand new recruits/redshirts. Of course it's going to be speculation... none of them have seen the field. And on the flip side, how are you suggesting guys who have not suited up yet and taken a single snap could be underachievers? Don't confuse the current entrenched players with the new blood coming in.



Same as above, why are we talking about production? Why are we talking about Theo? It's not that Daniels couldn't "break through" per se. Kelly opted to redshirt him this year. Phillip Daniels and DaVaris have both talked at length about this decision to save a year of eligibility.



See, I think you and I actually agree. I have "hope" that we'll be OK here and I would be confident we'd be OK if Greenberry had stayed on board giving us 6 WRs between the past 2 classes. I agree we haven't seen anything proven; but I think it's odd to have expected production from one class that hasn't stepped on campus yet and another class who had a kid who's been raved about and opted to redshirt + 1 project player in his 3rd year of football who was guaranteed to redshirt whether he played DB or WR. Only time will tell how these guys actually work out.

I suppose I wrote the above to be the devil's advocate on your thought that if we had GreenB we would be looking at the WR position as one of dominance (something like that, right?). As you pointed out, they haven't even seen the field yet. Essentially, that is my point. If the new blood was soo good (and I am with ya NoVa brother, I hope they are), then why couldn't they break through the entrenched players. Yes, I've heard the Daniel discussions of saving a year (somewhere on this board), but if he was good enough, he'd be playing.

And although you are looking at the last two classes, I am unable to keep my eye on the ball. I have to look at the collective-which is what we actually play the game with.

I'm not into arguing, just laying down my own 2 cents.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Nice job young man; Whiskey and I have been trying to keep the big picture in focus for several months now to keep hysterical readers less stressed about every little non-ideal thing which happens. What you are doing here is very helpful.

Why is this important?? It may not be, but it might. Your post contributes not only to the positive quality of life of the near-suicidal of our fans, but to the general upbeat feeling about how the program is being handled and progressing. This upbeat assessment of the coaching staff's competency [when that assessment is "honest", and I believe that it is VERY honest, as I'm sure both you and Whiskey do] helps make the larger "fan" opinion about our staff be less emotionally negative and impatient. IF Kelly is the guy who can possibly get us back to BCS standing, then why would we want to contribute to the ego-centric immaturity which gets him pre-maturely stressed and fired?? So what you're doing is not just "informative", it also is "curative". We will still have our short-sighted idiots here; you with any luck can educate and salvage some of them. I'm sure that JPham, Terry, LA, and all our stalwarts are applauding you right now, as am I.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Really? Is it any different than playing in the SEC, or against any other good, aggressive defense? (granted, there ain't a ton of those on Houston's schedule)
Greenberry may not have been a good fit for Notre Dame, but everything I've seen suggests he's certainly a competitor, not the type to back down from competition. And Greenberry's going to have to show some physicality if he's going to get to the NFL anyway. Because the safeties in the league hit a lot harder than they do at Wake Forest.

I agree with everything you said stlnd01, in fact my logic train followed the exact same tracks. Now if you go back a couple posts, I was asked to explain why so many people thought he wanted to stay "safe." That was their explanation. They were basically calling him a pussy, which is not my point of view at all.

If his going to Houston had any nefarious purpose in forwarding his career, it would be to inflate his numbers. Just my opinion, that is if!

NDinLA made a really great point from the SC perspective, about how this guy was all about drama; a real prima donna. This guy from SC predicted weeks before NSD that Dgb would sign at the last minute with a different school. Now I don't know any of these people from Adam, but I did see where Dgb announced he would take down his Facebook page on NSD, and then his mom sent him a message like, "You go, shock the world!" This seems to me to show an overinflated sense of self, drama coming out the ***, and a warped perspective of the world.

 

[Patulski]

When you play at Notre Dame as wide receiver somone is trying to take your head off on every play: Rob Paris against USC in '09; Michael Floyd in every game especially the shot to the groin and ribs against FSU; TJ against Wake; etc, etc, so on and so forth.

Some people calculate that the punishment isn't worth it.

You must not watch much college football. To think that ND wide receivers get tougher treatment than any other BCS school is absurd.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

You must not watch much college football. To think that ND wide receivers get tougher treatment than any other BCS school is absurd.

I don't watch much college football. Why would I?

I never said anything about ND wide receivers getting tougher treatment than any, any.

Three times I stated that was the opinion of quite a number of people I have spoken with.

I disavowed that perspective in post # 39.

I said there if anything it was to inflate his college stats. Would you rather have a two or five star covering you, when you have a qb you know can get you the ball?

I went on to say that yet another group thought it was all personality.

So I don't get how we even have a conversation from here. I must admit, watching any other team for more than a few minutes leaves me flat.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

http://assets.espn.go.com/pdf/2012/0125/mag_0206recruiting_map.pdf

I thought I'd toss this in here..

 

[Patulski]

I don't watch much college football. Why would I?

Uh, to have some perspective and knowledge of the game?

I never said anything about ND wide receivers getting tougher treatment than any, any.

The hell you didn't: "When you play at Notre Dame as wide receiver somone is trying to take your head off on every play: Rob Paris against USC in '09; Michael Floyd in every game especially the shot to the groin and ribs against FSU; TJ against Wake; etc, etc, so on and so forth. Some people calculate that the punishment isn't worth it."

You are specifically saying that some people would rather go to another college where it isn't worth how hard they're going to be hit compared to ND.

 

[stlnd01]

http://assets.espn.go.com/pdf/2012/0125/mag_0206recruiting_map.pdf

I thought I'd toss this in here..

That's interesting.
Our figures are pulled upward by the classes of '07 and '08 - 20 of our 36 ESPN 150 players, and four of those seven wide receivers came in those two years. We only had two 150 guys (Nix and TJ Jones) in the transition year of 2010.
And of course it's always fun - or not - to look back and see how players rated. Worth noting that Gary Gray was the #2 corner in the country his year, rated higher than anyone we were seriously in play for this year. While Blanton was the lowest-rated guy we signed in 2008. Too bad we blew his redshirt.
No surprise that the most talent comes out of the South. Was a bit surprised to see all those Pac-10 schools atop the "whose players come the farthest" chart, but I guess the distances are rather vast out there.

 

[DillonHall]

To think that ND wide receivers get tougher treatment than any other BCS school is absurd.

Definitely not the reason that WR recruits are choosing to go elsewhere

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogtrotter07
I don't watch much college football. Why would I?

Uh, to have some perspective and knowledge of the game?

I think my perspective is fine. I probably watched more college football that you have before you were born; bet I played more!

Quote:
I never said anything about ND wide receivers getting tougher treatment than any, any.

The hell you didn't: "When you play at Notre Dame as wide receiver somone is trying to take your head off on every play: Rob Paris against USC in '09; Michael Floyd in every game especially the shot to the groin and ribs against FSU; TJ against Wake; etc, etc, so on and so forth. Some people calculate that the punishment isn't worth it."

You are specifically saying that some people would rather go to another college where it isn't worth how hard they're going to be hit compared to ND.

I don’t really understand you saying. I think you need to communicate it more clearly. I think you are tangled up. Again, what I was saying was that others thought that Dgb was trying to get out of getting hit hard. What I said was at ND you get everybody’s best shot. Now here is the sophisticated part; see if you can keep up.) A four stars getting hit by other four and five stars could be considered more punishing, on face values that getting hit by two and three stars. This would possibly translate into less damaging punishment? Maybe. But it could certainly be extrapolated into better expected career numbers, which is the point. I don’t give a rats *** about the Pac XX, the SEC or any specific concert. I do however watch the UT Rockets on TV as well as in person, and though I love 'em, I wouldn't expect them to beat the Irish. Just scUM.

Niumatalolo said that if Navy had to drop one of the games, he would prefer to keep Notre Dame on the schedule ahead of Air Force for recruiting reasons . . .

"Notre Dame is a big part of keeping our program vital. It allows us to recruit people that otherwise might not look at us. They're a powerful institution. For our program, now that we're in the league, in my mind that becomes our No. 1 goal.

"If we have to give one of them away, it's not the conference championship. I'd say the Commander-in-Chief's trophy wouldn't be as important. I know I'll be getting a ton of email and phone calls on this. But I think it would be in the best interest of our program to keep those two games against Army and Notre Dame."

And that's just Navy!