5 year accepted

[IrishinSyria]

Keith Arnold has a good piece up about Cwynar. Looks like he's decided to forego a fifth year. Interestingly, the decision has nothing to do with football. He just feels that he's accomplished his academic goals at ND and is ready to begin his professional life. Seems like he's made the most out of his time at NF and is poised for a successful career.

 

[Veer option]

What is with all the Goodman hate? We really are a myopic fan base. Do you guys even look at the roster? Going into spring ball, the Irish only have 4 WR who have had any playing time Goodman, Riddick, Toma and Jones. The experienced depth at WR is pitiful going into next season. Sure there are some players that have loads of potential in the pipeline, but they haven't even seen the field yet. Perhaps we should be thankful that the Irish have a player like Goodman who can provide depth whilst the young guys get their footing. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he starts next season.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how uninformed. But it seems commenting on something that may or may not be based upon fact, is kind of . . .

Did you ever hear of the famous Irish mathmatitican? He developed the Astronomical Ratio in a moument of sobriety; it was when he discovered in an instant of absolute clarity that the number of horses and horses asses, was nowhere near the same!

 

[dublinirish]

What is with all the Goodman hate? We really are a myopic fan base. Do you guys even look at the roster? Going into spring ball, the Irish only have 4 WR who have had any playing time Goodman, Riddick, Toma and Jones. The experienced depth at WR is pitiful going into next season. Sure there are some players that have loads of potential in the pipeline, but they haven't even seen the field yet. Perhaps we should be thankful that the Irish have a player like Goodman who can provide depth whilst the young guys get their footing. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he starts next season.

i think the problem people have with goodman is his lack of skills and playmaking ability. nobody doubts his character or experience. Goodman is plain bread and butter but fans always want something more exotic

 

[irishff1014]

What is with all the Goodman hate? We really are a myopic fan base. Do you guys even look at the roster? Going into spring ball, the Irish only have 4 WR who have had any playing time Goodman, Riddick, Toma and Jones. The experienced depth at WR is pitiful going into next season. Sure there are some players that have loads of potential in the pipeline, but they haven't even seen the field yet. Perhaps we should be thankful that the Irish have a player like Goodman who can provide depth whilst the young guys get their footing. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he starts next season.

Good man Couldn't beat these guys out last year what makes you think he will if he is given a 5th year. Not to mention They guys we have that didn't redshirt have alot more talent then Goodman. And with Jones and Riddick being average at best we can't afford to have another average WR on the field.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I think a lot if people are overestimating people who have never touched the field and underestimating Goodie.

 

[sal]

Good man Couldn't beat these guys out last year what makes you think he will if he is given a 5th year. Not to mention They guys we have that didn't redshirt have alot more talent then Goodman. And with Jones and Riddick being average at best we can't afford to have another average WR on the field.

I am going to respect your opinion, but from what I am reading you know:
1. How to predict the future.
2. Apparently know a lot on reading talent - hopefully you are/were a football coach or played FB.
3. Lacked to consider that there are different types of receivers (X Y Z) and if you are to beat one of them (referring to your "Couldn't beat these guys out last year") you better be a six star recruit and top MFloyd since that is the type of receiver you are replacing on the field.

 

[irishog77]

I think a lot if people are overestimating people who have never touched the field and underestimating Goodie.

How? Have the coaches been underestimating him as well? Is there something you know that the fans and coaches have missed in his 4 years at ND? I'm not necessarily one for ripping a young, amateur athlete...but let's call a spade a spade-- John Goodman has not been a very good player in 4 years at ND. Does this mean he's a loser of a person and a terrible human being? Absolutely not! But being a good guy with decent athletic ability doesn't mean fans should all get on board with having him back for a 5th year of what he's done in 4 years.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Good man Couldn't beat these guys out last year what makes you think he will if he is given a 5th year. Not to mention They guys we have that didn't redshirt have alot more talent then Goodman. And with Jones and Riddick being average at best we can't afford to have another average WR on the field.

Goodman couldn't beat out one, maybe two guys last year: Michael Floyd (and, if WhiskeyJack is right and I think he is: T.J. Which could lead me into a longer discussion on all receivers not named Floyd or Eifert being ignored by a certain young QB...) . They played the same position, and when Floyd was down Goodie was in. NOT saying that he was the second best WR on the team, just that being second string to Floyd is not exactly proof that he's not good.

The fact is, we do not have one PROVEN dominate WR on the roster for next year. Now we may suspect that Daniels or T.J. or anyone else on the roster could become that, but we don't know. Goodman is a solid football player. I can remember more than a few times when he's come in and brought a spark to the offense. This team is overflowing with raw, young, talent. A senior voice and a dependable, if not spectacular, player can only help. Plus, maybe Brian Kelly has a pretty good idea of how many guys ND is likely to pull? Just a thought.

ETA: Anyone who blames our punt return situation on Goodman this year needs to quit watching football and start watching a sport that's easier to understand, like knitting.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Goodman couldn't beat out one guy last year: Michael Floyd. They played the same position, and when Floyd was down Goodie was in. NOT saying that he was the second best WR on the team, just that being second string to Floyd is not exactly proof that he's not good.

The fact is, we do not have one PROVEN dominate WR on the roster for next year. Now we may suspect that Daniels or T.J. or anyone else on the roster could become that, but we don't know. Goodman is a solid football player. I can remember more than a few times when he's come in and brought a spark to the offense. This team is overflowing with raw, young, talent. A senior voice and a dependable, if not spectacular, player can only help. Plus, maybe Brian Kelly has a pretty good idea of how many guys ND is likely to pull? Just a thought.

I agree with most of what you've said here, except for the bit about Goodman only being in competition with Floyd. As I understand it, the W and X (outside) WRs basically share the same depth chart. Thus, Goody was behind both Floyd and TJ as the #3 outside WR.

 

[ErieIrish13]

I look at it this way:

If he comes backs, then he will provide leadership and maybe even a spark on offense. I just hope to god he won't be returning punts anymore (whether it was his fault or not).

If he doesn't come back, then we have plenty of capable WR's to take the spot (not saying experienced, but definitely capable).

 

[IrishinSyria]

I agree with most of what you've said here, except for the bit about Goodman only being in competition with Floyd. As I understand it, the W and X (outside) WRs basically share the same depth chart. Thus, Goody was behind both Floyd and TJ as the #3 outside WR.

Think you're right. Edited the OP to reflect that.

 

[sfk324]

Since we're on the subject of the WR depth chart, does anyone have any idea where Daniel Smith stands? He clearly has the size to be an effective receiver--is this just a case of his injuries preventing him from getting enough reps to learn the offense, or is he just not developing?

 

[irishog77]

Think it could be both.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Since we're on the subject of the WR depth chart, does anyone have any idea where Daniel Smith stands? He clearly has the size to be an effective receiver--is this just a case of his injuries preventing him from getting enough reps to learn the offense, or is he just not developing?

He's got good size, but average speed. He has been hampered by injuries to date, but neither of the recruiting services were high on him coming out of high school, so it's not surprising that he hasn't really broken into the rotation yet.

The most telling comment I can recall regarding Smith's relative position on the depth chart was made by Kelly sometime during this last season. He said that there was a big drop off after Floyd, TJ, and Goodman at outside receiver (or something to that effect).

With Davaris Daniels and the incoming WR talent, I don't expect Smith to ever see significant playing time.

 

[Riddickulous]

I'm okay with this.

Although I'll say that part of the lack of production by TJ Jones is simply due to the fact that he was never thrown the football. I remember last year (2010) that there were several people who commented that TJ was constantly open but never targeted.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Goodman is returning according to his father.

 

[PANDFAN]

According to goodman s dad he is set to accept his 5th year at nd..TIFWIW

 

[JD Irish]

Is it possible that Goodman will not be on scholarship when he comes back, and that is why his status has been revealed so early?

 

[sfk324]

Thanks Whiskey. I tried to find decent info via a Google search, but there just didn't seem to be much out there. I think his page on here had him at a 3 star on one site and 4 on the other, and most of the other info out there was about his knee and hamstring issues during spring practice last year and into the season, but Kelly said he was still high on him. That was last spring, though, and I couldn't find anything more recent than that.

My question was from the perspective of his being decent enough to allow one or two of the freshmen to red shirt this season or at least ease into things after adding some weight in Longo's strength program.

 

[BGIF]

Is it possible that Goodman will not be on scholarship when he comes back, and that is why his status has been revealed so early?

Would you call your local newspaper with the great news that you're returning as a walkon after being on scholarship?


In Davie's first year there was recruit who should not have been on scholarship. It wasn't Davie's doing. It was a done deal before Davie was hired. The kid's dad was a heavy hitter at ND and had donated a building to ND. Dad wanted his son on a football scholarship. The kid was overweight, not in shape, lacked talent. Most who saw him doubted he would have had a scholarship at a lower division school. To his credit the kid worked hard and did become a backup his senior year.

I'm not comparing his skills to Goodman's but noting that the other kid's dad had very deep pockets (CEO of a major corporation) at a time ND badly needed talent. ND had lost 2 scholarships over Dunbar. That young man could have afforded to walk on and not take up a scholarship slot. Goodman earned his scholarship the old fashion way on a high school field. I haven't a clue as to his family's finances but unless their quite comfortable in this economy I wouldn't expect him to walk on.

Most of the comments in this thread have tried to compare Goodman's talent to the perceived talent of receivers with impressive HS clipping but no college game experience. Keep in mind today's offenses aren't just 10 yds and out patterns or "go post". The QBs and WRs have to read the defense and then adjust the pattern called based on the defensive deployment and adjustments. And then do it again automatically if there's an audible. There's a very strong possibility that ND will have a different QB next year. Do you really want a new QB and new WRs learning through on the job training on game day or should at least one of them be experienced and already making the right reads? It's one less variable.

 

[Emcee77]

Would you call your local newspaper with the great news that you're returning as a walkon after being on scholarship?

Most of the comments in this thread have tried to compare Goodman's talent to the perceived talent of receivers with impressive HS clipping but no college game experience. Keep in mind today's offenses aren't just 10 yds and out patterns or "go post". The QBs and WRs have to read the defense and then adjust the pattern called based on the defensive deployment and adjustments. And then do it again automatically if there's an audible. There's a very strong possibility that ND will have a different QB next year. Do you really want a new QB and new WRs learning through on the job training on game day or should at least one of them be experienced and already making the right reads? It's one less variable.

I agree that we should have an experienced, versatile receiver to help the younger guys along. Even though Crist rode the bench all season, Hendrix always said what a great help he was in learning the offense. Goodman, who can play all three WR positions, could play an even more important mentoring role next year with all the young talent we have at receiver.