Is this a "well coached" football team?

[Rhode Irish]

Yeah: The 8 teams that we've beaten this year have combined for 20 wins over BCS opponents. I know that some of our opponents aren't in a BCS conference, so that keeps the number low, but they (Navy, Air Force) aren't exactly great, non-BCS teams like Boise State.

By way of comparison, all of Boise's opponents this season have combined to beat eight BCS teams. Eight. And not particularly good ones: Ole Miss (2-9/0-7), Miss St. (5-6/1-6), Tennessee (5-6/1-6), Vandy (5-6/2-6), Florida (6-5/3-5), Auburn (7-4/4-3), Kentucky (4-7/1-6) and Washington St. (4-7/2-6).

That means the eight BCS teams that Boise's opponents have beaten have one decent win between them (not as good as ND's win over MSU) and are a combined 14-45 in their respective conferences. That is horrible.

I continue to think that some ND fans don't have a good sense of the college football landscape. They only see ND and therefore focus on all of its flaws. We certainly aren't perfect, but we're not nearly as bad as some people seem to think.

 

[Domer4ever]

But I bet you would relate losses to poor coaching..

I want to see them step up as well but expect next year to be a 9 win season at best too. We lose both starting CBs and Hayseed in our weakest area of defense. If Darby and Sheperd stay committed that will be a fantastic duo, but not right away.

2013 will be the year BKs recruited talent will be starting with experience and have talented depth. He is recruiting speed, height and raw athletic ability.. The kind of athletes we are not used to seeing in ND jerseys.

I wish the best for Rees but I hope a QB with more tangibles passes him..

When is the last time you saw a player like Aaron Lynch in a ND jersey? Tuitt? Well Darby, Shepherd, Greenberry, Atkinson, Davaris etc etc are simply better athletes than we've gotten used to.

I'm trying to be patient and enjoy these 8 wins.. The future is bright.

Like I said, I am glad the days of losing to inferior competition under Weis are over, but I am just not satisfied with the type of football I have seen this team play this year. I will take any wins I can get, but I am not foolish enough to not see the big picture and realize
the schedule has been very soft and the team has imploded against any good competition it has faced. The Michigan State win was great, as this team finally played like many of us thought it would see this season....but that has been it.

Maybe I am just having a harder time getting that bitter taste out of my mouth from the early season loses and the USC letdown then others. Today's lackluster perfromance against a 2 win BC team at home brought a lot of those feelings back and I just cant help but to doubt the coaching staff and the product they are puttig out on the field. Just way too inconsistant in all aspects of the game at this point in the season and the coaching staff has to take most of the blame. They do not look prepared to play football. Kelly has tried to deflect the teams lackluster efforts with his comments about everybody bringing their "A-game" agianst ND, but that only goes so far when your roster is stacked with highly rated talent. They should be socking BC in the nuts by 20 instead of squeeking out a mistake filled game at home. This team was an on-side kick away from losing today.

Call me an "entitled" fan all you want, but I am not seeing this team make huge strides and if they continue with the inconsistancies from both players and coaches, they are going to get hammered against Stanford. Just once I want to see this team rise up underneath Brian Kelly and pull out a big win. We'll see what happens next Saturday.

 

[NDinFL]

Like I said, I am glad the days of losing to inferior competition under Weis are over, but I am just not satisfied with the type of football I have seen this team play this year. I will take any wins I can get, but I am not foolish enough to not see the big picture and realize
the schedule has been very soft and the team has imploded against any good competition it has faced. The Michigan State win was great, as this team finally played like many of us thought it would see this season....but that has been it.

Maybe I am just having a harder time getting that bitter taste out of my mouth from the early season loses and the USC letdown then others. Today's lackluster perfromance against a 2 win BC team at home brought a lot of those feelings back and I just cant help but to doubt the coaching staff and the product they are puttig out on the field. Just way too inconsistant in all aspects of the game at this point in the season and the coaching staff has to take most of the blame. They do not look prepared to play football. Kelly has tried to deflect the teams lackluster efforts with his comments about everybody bringing their "A-game" agianst ND, but that only goes so far when your roster is stacked with highly rated talent. They should be socking BC in the nuts by 20 instead of squeeking out a mistake filled game at home. This team was an on-side kick away from losing today.

Call me an "entitled" fan all you want, but I am not seeing this team make huge strides and if they continue with the inconsistancies from both players and coaches, they are going to get hammered against Stanford. Just once I want to see this team rise up underneath Brian Kelly and pull out a big win. We'll see what happens next Saturday.

Entitled doesn't quite do it justice...

maybe delusional? maybe.... whiney?

Bottom line, any fan who has watched the transition from Weis to Kelly should be able to honestly see the difference in the whole program.

Your post, and original post for that matter just flat out stink.

We won the game. End of story.

If you can't enjoy that, then stop pissing in everyone else's cornflakes.

EDIT: So you don't call beating a ranked Utah team a "big win" or perhaps that just isn't enough?
Or perhaps going into the Coliseum and beating USC for the first time in damn near a decade, that win "big enough"?

 

[BGIF]

Entitled doesn't quite do it justice...

maybe delusional? maybe.... whiney?

Bottom line, any fan who has watched the transition from Weis to Kelly should be able to honestly see the difference in the whole program.

Your post, and original post for that matter just flat out stink.

We won the game. End of story.

If you can't enjoy that, then stop pissing in everyone else's cornflakes.

EDIT: So you don't call beating a ranked Utah team a "big win" or perhaps that just isn't enough?
Or perhaps going into the Coliseum and beating USC for the first time in damn near a decade, that win "big enough"?

DING! DING! DING! REPS NDinFL!

He asked a question and when people responded they were wrong simply because he's unhappy. He asked about coaching but coaching isn't his issue. He wants to bitch. Several people responded from different perspectives but the only ones he agreed with were those who also want to bitch because THEIR expectations aren't being met such as the "I expected the BCS".

The USC win doesn't count although it's the only one in a decade. The MSU win doesn't count although they're a ranked team. The Utah win doesn't count although it was the first win over a ranked team in several years.

Domer4ever would have fired Parshegian. Ara won the games ND was supposed to win but had a terrible time with USC and let's not mention Purdue. Holtz won a National Championship in '88 but by '94 Vinny Cerrato's talent was graduated and Holtz lost back to back games to unranked BC and BYU. That was the year Holtz tried to transform the team from the smash Triple Option to the Blarney Offense. He had the same coaches but was installing a new system and struggled going 6-5-1. OL coach Joe Moore fought Holtz over the transition for 2 years. In '96 ND lost beat 6th ranked UTX, then lost soundly to 4th ranked OSU then beat 16th ranked UW soundly. Air Force came to South Bend and ND lost in OT as the mighty Air Force defense outweighed by more than 50 pounds per man held ND to some 60 yds rushing. The next week Holtz started a true freshman Defensive Lineman, Brad Williams at RG and the Irish rolled over Navy in Dublin. The 10th ranked Irish closed the season with OT loss to Southern Cal. Domer4ever would have fired Holtz as well. Leahy went undefeated for 4 seasons but Domer4ever would have sacked him in 1950 when ND had more losses in one season then they had in 17 years, 4. Devine won a NC but lost that season to unranked Mississippi. Had to be the coaching. Then there was that coach that skipped a game to scout an opponent for NEXT year. ND lost so Domer4ever wouldn't have kept him either.

Most people on this board pegged ND preseason to be 8-4, and they have a good probability of achieving that. I remember people touting Crist for Heisman citing gaudy numbers. I recall people projecting 13-0 IF the OLine and QB questions were resolved. One was, the other wasn't and my 13-0 forecast went by the board. Preseason I posted USF would be ND's more important game. Not the toughest, the most important. I was scoffed at soundly. No one forecast 10 turnovers, just like nobody forecast a snap through the QB's legs at the goal line which would be returned for a TD. Don't recall anyone forecasting Jonas's TD plunge turned stripped, turned into a TD for USF either. Must be the coaching.

As for your signature win so oft repeated in this thread, Domer4ever, if Luck has the worse game of his life and throws 5 ints, would that indicate the ND program suddenly is Top 5 caliber? If Rees throws for 3 TDs and hits 70% of his passes and Cierre runs for 150 will ND beat LSU in a bowl game? And if ND loses by 3 TDs as Luck has a career night will ND be New Mexico? No, this is a program in transition on offense, on defense, and unlike Rockne's, Leahy's, and Ara's Era, Kelly only gets 20 hours a week to practice the players. I don't understand the lack of blocking on punts but I did hear the man say, it will have to wait until after the season. His decision, as is, who plays QB, what plays get called, the defensive scheme, and to whom he extends a scholarship offer.

 

[phork]

Brian Hardin via Twitter:

Weis had a fantastic record as well....

Bullshit analogy. This is football, not life. I expect a lot from this team and i was pissed during the win, but count me as one who is very happy that at least we got the W. And i consider myself to be very successful in life.

Funny you say that since someone in another thread said that perspective employers try to look for "winners" while defending Tommy's record.

I expect big picture improvement, not day in day out perfection. Is this a better team than last year? Without a doubt. Was last years team better than the year before? Absolutely. Kelly has a plan and we have made unquestionable progress with that plan. I don't understand where the problem is.

Better than last year? Going to be heading into a bowl game at 8-4 after Stanford bends us over the bed again. With "close" victories vs BC and Wake it is possible that we go 8-5, again.

I then provide as exhibit 'A' the Michigan Wolverines. The last 3 years have been the historically worst teams in UM history, we managed 1 victory. Then comes this year. New coach, new offensive system, new defensive system. Hoke is killing it in recruiting and winning on the field. They are going to finish 10-2 and quite possibly with a BCS bowl in the works. They are the #1 or #2 recruiting class with more to add.

By way of comparison, all of Boise's opponents this season have combined to beat eight BCS teams. Eight. And not particularly good ones: Ole Miss (2-9/0-7), Miss St. (5-6/1-6), Tennessee (5-6/1-6), Vandy (5-6/2-6), Florida (6-5/3-5), Auburn (7-4/4-3), Kentucky (4-7/1-6) and Washington St. (4-7/2-6).

That means the eight BCS teams that Boise's opponents have beaten have one decent win between them (not as good as ND's win over MSU) and are a combined 14-45 in their respective conferences. That is horrible.

I continue to think that some ND fans don't have a good sense of the college football landscape. They only see ND and therefore focus on all of its flaws. We certainly aren't perfect, but we're not nearly as bad as some people seem to think.

By comparison Boise ripped all of their opponents a new one, with the exception of TCU which is a good team in their own right.

 

[BobD]

Offense, Defense, Special teams and Coaching

Offense, Defense, Special teams and Coaching

WE HAVE A NEED FOR SPEED!!!!


Everytime I watch highlights of the weeks games on TV, it looks as if someone hit a slow motion button while showing our game, either that or a fast forward for the other games. We look slow, act slow, react slow, we are SLOW. I think we have a need for speed more than anything else. Thoughts? Is it just me? How can we fix it?

 

[DillonHall]

By way of comparison, all of Boise's opponents this season have combined to beat eight BCS teams. Eight. And not particularly good ones: Ole Miss (2-9/0-7), Miss St. (5-6/1-6), Tennessee (5-6/1-6), Vandy (5-6/2-6), Florida (6-5/3-5), Auburn (7-4/4-3), Kentucky (4-7/1-6) and Washington St. (4-7/2-6).

That means the eight BCS teams that Boise's opponents have beaten have one decent win between them (not as good as ND's win over MSU) and are a combined 14-45 in their respective conferences. That is horrible.

I continue to think that some ND fans don't have a good sense of the college football landscape. They only see ND and therefore focus on all of its flaws. We certainly aren't perfect, but we're not nearly as bad as some people seem to think.

Who doesn't dispute that Boise State has an easy schedule every year?

 

[tko]

Punt return team - SUCKS! Them as a whole!

QB play - Average. Tommy has done alright but not what BK wants or needs for HIS offense. Yes that makes a difference.

Defense - beyond better but the pass defense still hurts

Turnovers - will kill anyone. (See OK State)

Alex Flanagan - Pound that mouthRun Game - lacked when Jonas went down

BK - we are over .500 under him already = happy(ish)

BK RECRUITS = FUTURE!


I think we need to calm ourselves. BK has a plan and is sticking with it. Close games with BC or not. A win is a win to him. It is more about getting the team where they need to be day in and day out. He cares just as much about winning behind the scene as he does ON THE SCENE! We are on the right track. Time will tell guys. Stay positive.

That Jumbotron will tell USC and Kitty they suck. PROMISE!

AMEN!!!!

 

[Old Man Mike]

This is a well-coached football team.

It is lumbered with lack of speed in an offense which requires speed for optimization, yet generally functions pretty well.

It is lumbered with lack of speed in a defense where speed is an absolute requirement for being proof against the 21st century offenses, yet usually performs astonishing well. [Diaco's ability to work with what he has continues to astonish me, although his bend-don't-break general philosophy does not please persons wanting a sack or an interception on every play].

It is finding a way to win games even when the players aren't always cooperating. [ i.e. dropping passes, misreading routes, fumbling, kicking out of bounds, refusing to scramble run regardless, losing composure on penalties, breaking contain because they just want to smash in there --- etc, and NO that's not usually on the coaches. That's players who aren't concentrating every play].

The players must improve themselves at a certain point. Example: Ruffer and Turk decided to work their MINDS through this. Jonas did that too as he tells us. Cave quit giving the snap away by HIM working on it. Trevor Robinson got better when HE decided to change his attitude about some elements of his conditioning and play. There are successes like that all over the roster, but not everywhere. The coaches can do only so much re-making, essentially, an entire team both physically and mentally. I believe that like Kelly says every time: this team is making progress in all these areas every week. [one might also admit occasionally that our opponents are neither stupid nor incapable of analyzing film. They will figure some things out; worse so for us as they have more film to analyze].

At this stage of the season, Coach and the staff have "cured" most of the things that they can cure, given the limitations they have to work under. Tommy's limitations have been lived with because Coach thought that it was more important to go 9-4 this year that 5-7 with a really rough learning-from-scratch QB process. He is going to let the 9-4 play out and see what he has next year. I'm entirely with him on this. What an un-great season it would have been to lose 6 out of the first seven for instance. Doubtless recruiting would have been great, too.

Diaco has had to live with very poor instincts and speed vs the pass and outside game in his LB corps all year. Do we blame him for the players he has?? One doesn't just snap ones fingers and get all the recruits that one wants. It is going to take some time to build the defensive speed and coverage personnel. Everyone else in the country wants those people too.

This could go on interminably. But... This is a well-coached team. Thank God we have them.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

We have the worst fans in college sports.

I agree that we're making progress. My problem personally is that I predicted the BCS for this team, and we're not going to reach that goal.

The problem is your unrealistic prediction. We came into this season with very little depth at several key positions, and a QB controversy. Unsurprisingly, those two weaknesses-- which aren't the coaching staff's fault-- are largely responsible for our only 3 losses this season.

I hope you are right, but I wouldn't relate wins with great coaching. This is a very talented football team that has won games against a fairly cupcake schedule. I will take any win they can get...but I want to see them step up agianst the big boys and win as opposed to what have seen in the 3 losses this year.

Sagarin currently ranks ND's SoS at 25th. Only 9 of the 24 teams ranked ahead of us have played a harder schedule. I expect we'll finish with a top 20 SoS after the Stanford game, and for the 2nd year in a row, 8 or 9 of our opponents should finish the season bowl eligible.

Once again, the problem is with your expectations, and not with Kelly. Our schedule is far tougher than you seem to think it is.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I agree that we're making progress. My problem personally is that I predicted the BCS for this team, and we're not going to reach that goal.

Well, that's a 'you' problem. I predicted 9-3 and hoped for 11-1, because the problems with this program run so deep that it's going to take awhile to clean up. We also had 4 QBs getting reps during the spring and early fall camp because our #1 guy is a headcase with a history on injury problems, our #2 guy is severely limited (and turned out to be our best option), and our most talented QBs were talented enough to warrant looks. If you have 4 QBs you don't have one, and you expected this to be a BCS team?

And you don't go to a BCS game with the problems outlined above (and many more) with our schedule. Call it a bunch of cupcakes all you want, but you're showing your ignorance when you say that. Instead of starting off with 2 patsies like most teams (Alabama had 4 INTs IN 3 QUARTERS of their first game...but they played Kent St), we start off with South Florida, who treated their pilgrimage to South Bend like their Super Bowl. Then we go to Michigan and play their first night game ever. Then we play Mich St. Then we go to Pitt and play at 12 in the afternoon after playing 3 emotional games. Then we go to Purdue and play a rival in a night game on the road in their Super Bowl. Then we get a week to get ready for the triple option of Air Force, a team good enough to almost beat OK the year before. Then we get a bye and play USC, a top 10 team. The we get a week to prepare for the option of Navy.

How is that cupcake? The way our schedule is set up every year sets any ND coach up to fail. Thank God next year we get Navy and then Purdue first. (Then the nightmare begins.) So save it with the cupcake schedule b.s. You are highly misinformed if you believe our schedule is soft.

 

[tko]

This is a well-coached football team.

It is lumbered with lack of speed in an offense which requires speed for optimization, yet generally functions pretty well.

It is lumbered with lack of speed in a defense where speed is an absolute requirement for being proof against the 21st century offenses, yet usually performs astonishing well. [Diaco's ability to work with what he has continues to astonish me, although his bend-don't-break general philosophy does not please persons wanting a sack or an interception on every play].

It is finding a way to win games even when the players aren't always cooperating. [ i.e. dropping passes, misreading routes, fumbling, kicking out of bounds, refusing to scramble run regardless, losing composure on penalties, breaking contain because they just want to smash in there --- etc, and NO that's not usually on the coaches. That's players who aren't concentrating every play].

The players must improve themselves at a certain point. Example: Ruffer and Turk decided to work their MINDS through this. Jonas did that too as he tells us. Cave quit giving the snap away by HIM working on it. Trevor Robinson got better when HE decided to change his attitude about some elements of his conditioning and play. There are successes like that all over the roster, but not everywhere. The coaches can do only so much re-making, essentially, an entire team both physically and mentally. I believe that like Kelly says every time: this team is making progress in all these areas every week. [one might also admit occasionally that our opponents are neither stupid nor incapable of analyzing film. They will figure some things out; worse so for us as they have more film to analyze].

At this stage of the season, Coach and the staff have "cured" most of the things that they can cure, given the limitations they have to work under. Tommy's limitations have been lived with because Coach thought that it was more important to go 9-4 this year that 5-7 with a really rough learning-from-scratch QB process. He is going to let the 9-4 play out and see what he has next year. I'm entirely with him on this. What an un-great season it would have been to lose 6 out of the first seven for instance. Doubtless recruiting would have been great, too.

Diaco has had to live with very poor instincts and speed vs the pass and outside game in his LB corps all year. Do we blame him for the players he has?? One doesn't just snap ones fingers and get all the recruits that one wants. It is going to take some time to build the defensive speed and coverage personnel. Everyone else in the country wants those people too.

This could go on interminably. But... This is a well-coached team. Thank God we have them.

so we're assuming a stanford loss and a bowl win or the other way around?

 

[Old Man Mike]

We aren't assuming anything. I do not speak for anyone but myself, and that, when it comes to crystal-gazing is worse than flawed. My best guess is that we do not win against Stanford but do win against the bowl opponent. It could almost as easily happen the opposite way.

 

[DillonHall]

Well, that's a 'you' problem. I predicted 9-3 and hoped for 11-1, because the problems with this program run so deep that it's going to take awhile to clean up. We also had 4 QBs getting reps during the spring and early fall camp because our #1 guy is a headcase with a history on injury problems, our #2 guy is severely limited (and turned out to be our best option), and our most talented QBs were talented enough to warrant looks. If you have 4 QBs you don't have one, and you expected this to be a BCS team?

And you don't go to a BCS game with the problems outlined above (and many more) with our schedule. Call it a bunch of cupcakes all you want, but you're showing your ignorance when you say that. Instead of starting off with 2 patsies like most teams (Alabama had 4 INTs IN 3 QUARTERS of their first game...but they played Kent St), we start off with South Florida, who treated their pilgrimage to South Bend like their Super Bowl. Then we go to Michigan and play their first night game ever. Then we play Mich St. Then we go to Pitt and play at 12 in the afternoon after playing 3 emotional games. Then we go to Purdue and play a rival in a night game on the road in their Super Bowl. Then we get a week to get ready for the triple option of Air Force, a team good enough to almost beat OK the year before. Then we get a bye and play USC, a top 10 team. The we get a week to prepare for the option of Navy.

How is that cupcake? The way our schedule is set up every year sets any ND coach up to fail. Thank God next year we get Navy and then Purdue first. (Then the nightmare begins.) So save it with the cupcake schedule b.s. You are highly misinformed if you believe our schedule is soft.

I wasn't saying that we had an easy schedule overall. Instead, I pointed out that the teams that we have beaten aren't that good. In general, people on this board need to stop putting words in my mouth...And as for it being my 'BCS problem,' it's also Kelly's because that was his stated goal at the start of the year and even up until the USC game. I don't make my own predictions just on the fly; I listened to what Kelly had to say throughout training camp and based my prediction so that it reflected his goals for the season. I realize hindsight is 20/20, but before the first snap of the season, many people, including Kelly, targeted the BCS for the 2011 season.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Better than last year? Going to be heading into a bowl game at 8-4 after Stanford bends us over the bed again. With "close" victories vs BC and Wake it is possible that we go 8-5, again.

Absolutely better than last year. And if you can't see it then you're not paying attention. We got smoked by Stanford last year, scored basically no points against an AWFUL Michigan defense, lost to Tulsa, got hammered by Navy, struggled for 3 quarters against BC, beat Army only 24-3, and beat USC despite ourselves and with the all-world QB out.

This year, USF was a mess, but again, you don't start the year with them schedule makers. You start w/ Kent St so you can work through your mistakes. The Michigan game...we completely outplayed them for 3 quarters, and they are a top 15 team. Turnovers and a meltdown. Ugh. Then we beat a top 12 team, handily. Then we played Pitt on the road and got by with a close win, but after 3 emotional games, fine. Then we HAMMERED Purdue. We HAMMERED AF. We played a top 7 USC team closer then Oregon did last night (until the crazy 4th quarter) and if not for a fumble from our senior QB, we might have beaten them. We HAMMERED Navy. We beat a good Wake team on the road. We HAMMERED Maryland. And we sucked yesterday. But how many teams did we blow out last year? How many this year?

Look at almost every single stat from last year to this. We are improved everywhere. Look at our lines...our O-line has been dominant. We are running for more yards, and passing for more yards, despite a weak-armed QB. And our D-line has been decimated by injuries and we are still holding up thanks to great recruiting and great player development.

Now, they are still major areas to improve, and I'm not satisfied for sure. But the arrow is pointing in the right direction, no doubt. Don't look at one bad game (EVERY team has them) and think we haven't improved. We have.

 

[50milesSE ND]

When rebuilding a program the progress you make daily is what is important, not necessarily the wins you get on a weekly basis. We all want to win that's being a fan, but get past the what ifs. Understand that this is going to be a slow evolving process that is reconfiguring how things are done. I have been a fan for as long as I remember so I'm in it for the long haul. That's why people get divorced vs staying married these days. Instant gratification is want people want, but when things get tough just move on. We as fans (weird as it may sound) are married to this program, are in for the long haul. Commitment to doing things the right way will show its benefits in the near future be patient good things will come..

 

[Buster Bluth]

So much stupidity on this thread. I want to hand out neg reps left and right for some of this nonsense.

Let's just all agree that the "Brian Kelly offense" is being held back by mediocre QB talent so you're seeing a ton of horizontal passing because the defense knows Rees can't run or throw vertically. Kelly needs to keep the ball moving around and to keep Kuechly in check somewhat. Even a pass to the flats for a loss of three can be a gain ultimately because the LB's have to respect it.

Remember in 2009 when Spaziani's zone made Clausen struggle so much? Now imagine what a guy like Rees would do against it? It wasn't pretty and it probably wasn't going to be regardless of our expectations.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I wasn't saying that we had an easy schedule overall. Instead, I pointed out that the teams that we have beaten aren't that good. In general, people on this board need to stop putting words in my mouth...And as for it being my 'BCS problem,' it's also Kelly's because that was his stated goal at the start of the year and even up until the USC game. I don't make my own predictions just on the fly; I listened to what Kelly had to say throughout training camp and based my prediction so that it reflected his goals for the season. I realize hindsight is 20/20, but before the first snap of the season, many people, including Kelly, targeted the BCS for the 2011 season.

In general, you need to stop saying those things or stop back-pedaling from them. You called it a 'fairly cupcake schedule'. I responded to that. Are you denying that you said that? Again, if you call it that, then you are showing your ignorance on the matter, and you need to re-read my other post to better understand how difficult the schedule really is, with the way it is set up.

And of course Kelly targeted the BCS, as he should. EVERY TOP 25 COACH SAYS THAT!!! Before the season, did you think that 25-30 teams would make the BCS? Did you think Stanford, Arkansas, Boise St, Oregon, LSU, AZ St, Alabama, Arkansas, Miss St, Clemson, Va Tech, FSU, OK, OK St, TX A&M, Mich St, Wisc, Nebraska, etc were all going to make the BCS too? Because their coaches set that as their goal as well.

So instead of looking at it objectively, you listened to coach-speak and now you feel burned. Kelly also said that the team is getting better and that the program has made huge strides. You don't believe him there but you DO believe him when he says BCS??? Sorry, I'm having a hard time following when you believe him and when you don't.

 

[DillonHall]

In general, you need to stop saying those things or stop back-pedaling from them. You called it a 'fairly cupcake schedule'. I responded to that. Are you denying that you said that? Again, if you call it that, then you are showing your ignorance on the matter, and you need to re-read my other post to better understand how difficult the schedule really is, with the way it is set up.

And of course Kelly targeted the BCS, as he should. EVERY TOP 25 COACH SAYS THAT!!! Before the season, did you think that 25-30 teams would make the BCS? Did you think Stanford, Arkansas, Boise St, Oregon, LSU, AZ St, Alabama, Arkansas, Miss St, Clemson, Va Tech, FSU, OK, OK St, TX A&M, Mich St, Wisc, Nebraska, etc were all going to make the BCS too? Because their coaches set that as their goal as well.

So instead of looking at it objectively, you listened to coach-speak and now you feel burned. Kelly also said that the team is getting better and that the program has made huge strides. You don't believe him there but you DO believe him when he says BCS??? Sorry, I'm having a hard time following when you believe him and when you don't.

You are an embarrassment as a mod. I have never used the term 'cupcake schedule' in my life.

I listened to Kelly during camp because I had nothing else to judge it on (unfortunately I don't have the privilege of viewing practices). Now that we see the product on the field and the inconsistency, it's difficult to believe these improvements are being made 'behind the scenes.'

 

[NDinL.A.]

You are an embarrassment as a mod. I have never used the term 'cupcake schedule' in my life.

I listened to Kelly during camp because I had nothing else to judge it on (unfortunately I don't have the privilege of viewing practices). Now that we see the product on the field and the inconsistency, it's difficult to believe these improvements are being made 'behind the scenes.'

Whoops, got you and domer4ever confused. Thought I was arguing with him; he was the one who said that. My apologies.

But you're embarrassing yourself as a poster and a fan nonetheless. Keep ignoring everything I write that makes you look bad...that's fine, but you can't run from it. You listened to a coach talk BCS and expected to get there, and now you're kicking and screaming b/c it didn't happen. You listening to coach-speak and taking it as Gospel is a you problem, not a ND problem. There were 30 other coaches who said BCS was a goal, so I'm assuming that mistakenly thought there would be 30 teams in BCS games, right?

You don't need to see practices to see progress or problems. You can read articles from those that are there. You can view the roster. You can watch the year's previous games and see what the team has coming back and what they lose. Etc etc etc. I've never done what you did there. It's called having your own mind and looking at things as objectively as possible (which is tough b/c we're all fans), gathering info from different places and then going off of that. You blindly went off coach-speak and you got burned, and now you're bitching about it. Talk about embarrassing.

I'm pretty sure you're a really intelligent guy, so it's hard to believe that you actually believed what BK said and took it as Gospel without any other info (shm)

 

[Patulski]

Is this serious? Only here would people question if we have had a program changing win after a win. Did we have the opportunity to have one before the game today? And if it isnt MSU, then who this year? Stanford? Last time I checked that game hasnt happened yet.

There is no such thing as a program changing win, in the present..That's a concept that comes as hindsight when a team ramps up to another talent level-which is a gradual process- or if the previous staff was truly horrible (1963 ND).

People probably would say that Lou beating USC in 1987 was a program changing win, but we beat Michigan the next year (which was a high profile win) because of emerging stars like Ricky Watters, Rocket, Boo Williams, Arnold Ale, Andre Jones etc, and having the opposing kicker miss a field goal that he hit earlier in the game.

If that Michigan win occurred today, NDNation would be moaning how awful Tony Rice's passing was after that game, how terrible a coach Holtz was for not being able to develop a QB (in his 3rd year) who could complete easy passes, and would have been certain we could never win a NC with such a one dimensional offense.

 

[MNIrishman]

Reps for LA on this one, just don't understand this guy

 

[Grahambo]

I fail to see the cupcake schedule analogy.

USF had an entire summer to prepare for us. If Jonas (Bless his heart) doesn't get stripped, even if we settle for 3 points, I'm confident that outcome is different.

Michigan. They lose to MSU who we beat. A Top 20 team in the country.

MSU. A legit Top 15 team in the country. They have wins over Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, and OSU. We beat them.

Pitt. I believe they are on coach number 3 in one calendar year. 5-5 team who has wins over USF, CONN, and Louisville. 3 of the 5 losses are by 4 points or less.

Purdue. I think a pretty decent year for Purdue's standard. Wins over Illinois and OSU.

AFA. Triple option attack. #3 in rushing. #27 in points scored

USC. Turns out most were wrong about USC and they are a legit Top 10 team this season. They lost to ASU and Stanford but took Stanford 3OT to do it. Just beat Oregon too. If Crist doesn't fumble, maybe he is getting his own movie made about him.

Navy. Uncharacteristic year for them but they are in transition with starting QBs.

Wake Forest. They lose by 3 to Clemson who gets pounded by NC State who lost to Wake earlier in the year. Top win is Florida State.

Maryland. All sorts of problems over there.

BC. Biggest win is NC State.

Stanford. Up next and certainly is beatable.

Sagarin ranks us in the Top 25.

 

[DillonHall]

Whoops, got you and domer4ever confused. Thought I was arguing with him; he was the one who said that. My apologies.

But you're embarrassing yourself as a poster and a fan nonetheless. Keep ignoring everything I write that makes you look bad...that's fine, but you can't run from it. You listened to a coach talk BCS and expected to get there, and now you're kicking and screaming b/c it didn't happen. You listening to coach-speak and taking it as Gospel is a you problem, not a ND problem. There were 30 other coaches who said BCS was a goal, so I'm assuming that mistakenly thought there would be 30 teams in BCS games, right?

You don't need to see practices to see progress or problems. You can read articles from those that are there. You can view the roster. You can watch the year's previous games and see what the team has coming back and what they lose. Etc etc etc. I've never done what you did there. It's called having your own mind and looking at things as objectively as possible (which is tough b/c we're all fans), gathering info from different places and then going off of that. You blindly went off coach-speak and you got burned, and now you're bitching about it. Talk about embarrassing.

I'm pretty sure you're a really intelligent guy, so it's hard to believe that you actually believed what BK said and took it as Gospel without any other info (shm)

You're right, I guess I got 'burned' by coach speak. But the reports out of camp were very positive (especially regarding the freshmen and Dayne Crist), so I thought that, combined with the way we finished 2010, that the BCS was a realistic goal this season. And you predicted 9-3, which isn't too far from the BCS either.

 

[enrico514]

This is definitely a "well coached" team. If you haven't seen the progress individual players and the team has made... you are blind. There's no doubt parts of our game still need to improve greatly but I believe they will be addressed with time.

 

[Patulski]

Our O will only go as far as our O-line carries us, and we do not have an elite O-line that can consistently get yards when it needs to against better front 7's. Every time we face a solid front 7, we struggle, which will be the case again against Stanford.

Still football is a team game, and our D was good enough to win the game. But when our D faces elite O-lines, they struggle too.

For us to win we need to improve all areas of our team, but as it always does in football, it starts at the line of scrimmage.

Let's just all agree that the "Brian Kelly offense" is being held back by mediocre QB talent so you're seeing a ton of horizontal passing because the defense knows Rees can't run or throw vertically. Kelly needs to keep the ball moving around and to keep Kuechly in check somewhat. Even a pass to the flats for a loss of three can be a gain ultimately because the LB's have to respect it.

Remember in 2009 when Spaziani's zone made Clausen struggle so much? Now imagine what a guy like Rees would do against it? It wasn't pretty and it probably wasn't going to be regardless of our expectations.

 

[DillonHall]

I fail to see the cupcake schedule analogy.

USF had an entire summer to prepare for us. If Jonas (Bless his heart) doesn't get stripped, even if we settle for 3 points, I'm confident that outcome is different.

Michigan. They lose to MSU who we beat. A Top 20 team in the country.

MSU. A legit Top 15 team in the country. They have wins over Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, and OSU. We beat them.

Pitt. I believe they are on coach number 3 in one calendar year. 5-5 team who has wins over USF, CONN, and Louisville. 3 of the 5 losses are by 4 points or less.

Purdue. I think a pretty decent year for Purdue's standard. Wins over Illinois and OSU.

AFA. Triple option attack. #3 in rushing. #27 in points scored

USC. Turns out most were wrong about USC and they are a legit Top 10 team this season. They lost to ASU and Stanford but took Stanford 3OT to do it. Just beat Oregon too. If Crist doesn't fumble, maybe he is getting his own movie made about him.

Navy. Uncharacteristic year for them but they are in transition with starting QBs.

Wake Forest. They lose by 3 to Clemson who gets pounded by NC State who lost to Wake earlier in the year. Top win is Florida State.

Maryland. All sorts of problems over there.

BC. Biggest win is NC State.

Stanford. Up next and certainly is beatable.

Sagarin ranks us in the Top 25.

Let me clarify: I know that we have a tough schedule this year (as usual); I have never stated otherwise. However, I pointed out that the teams that we have beaten, with the exception of Michigan State, have struggled this year. SOS is irrelevant in THIS discussion because we lost to those teams (i.e. it doesn't dispute that we haven't beaten the best teams on our schedule, again, with the exception of MSU).

And I don't understand the reasoning behind the USF game; we had just as much time as they did to prepare for that game.

I understand that ND is everyone's 'big game.' As coach has said, our guys have to match that intensity so that that element becomes a non-factor (easier said than done; it goes against human nature).

 

[Grahambo]

Let me clarify: I know that we have a tough schedule this year (as usual); I have never stated otherwise. However, I pointed out that the teams that we have beaten, with the exception of Michigan State, have struggled this year. SOS is irrelevant in THIS discussion because we lost to those teams (i.e. it doesn't dispute that we haven't beaten the best teams on our schedule, again, with the exception of MSU).

And I don't understand the reasoning behind the USF game; we had just as much time as they did to prepare for that game.

I understand that ND is everyone's 'big game.' As coach has said, our guys have to match that intensity so that that element becomes a non-factor (easier said than done; it goes against human nature).

I wasn't trying to target you with my post. Just the argument in general. Two of our three losses this year are by Top 15 teams so it's not like we are getting beat by actual cupcakes. If I recall correctly USF was poised to win the Big East this year and started out 4-1 then fell apart for whatever reason. We easily beat ourselves into two of the three losses (ten turnovers). USC is really good this year and Barkley is playing his way into the #1 overall pick this year. Who knows how that game goes if Crist doesn't fumble.

SOS is tough to sell because teams you beat lose to teams they should have beat. Teams you lose to lose to teams they should have beat or win games they weren't supposed. Does that make you any better or any worse then what you really are? Who really knows but you are what your record says you are. I argued for a 9-3 season this year. A win at Stanford is viable.

They played in the classic trap game last night and came out victors, wasn't pretty but got the W.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

WE HAVE A NEED FOR SPEED!!!!


Everytime I watch highlights of the weeks games on TV, it looks as if someone hit a slow motion button while showing our game, either that or a fast forward for the other games. We look slow, act slow, react slow, we are SLOW. I think we have a need for speed more than anything else. Thoughts? Is it just me? How can we fix it?

Of course we need speed, but I know you are not arguing that BC has more speed than us. What we need is our coach to be rational with regards to the QB situation. I think everybody and their mother gets it that Tommy is his boy. But like any boy who is not performing, he needs to be disciplined. Sit him down for a series.

God I would love to know what the real reason is for our QB fiasco. Performance is definitely not it. It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[BobD]

I think we're a very well coached team, unfortunately we lack some things that can't be coached.