Irish4Life09
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I was thinking the same thing.
'12 IN QB Gunner Kiel (Cincinnati Transfer)
- Thread starter Maddog77
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Irish4Life09
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awesome,thanks.
DillonHall
Tommy 12-2
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No problem, now go educate your friends!
Gunner did not perform well at the final competition. He did make the tv show but did not finish in the final 11. Got ripped by the guys. I could be wrong but I think they said he was not competitive or did not step up. Sorry I just remeber him getting eliminated.
NDdomer2
Local Sports vBookie
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He did get eliminated. I stayed up way to late one night watching the whole show. However, getting eliminated in a 7 on 7 atmosphere with no rush, no pads, and Trent Dilfer as the coach doesn't exactly equal the determining factor of success at the college level.
I completely agree. Previous post made it sound as though he perform well at the elite 11. Not that it means much but that is why I said something.
woolybug25
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Who ripped him? I never read or saw that anywhere. The counselors (current CFB QB's) voted him as one of the top five of the entire event. There is a lot that goes into the final 11 they choose. Most analysts said that he was special at times, and inconsistent at times. I never saw anyone say that he wasn't competitive or "didn't stand up" (how do you "stand up" in a 7-on-7?)The biggest conversation coming out of it was whether he or Winston were the best QB in the class, not on whether he was a top 11 QB. If they really didn't think he was a top 11 QB, then why do they have him ranked as their #2 QB?
He also won the gag award of "Tightest Shirt"... so he had that going for him.
DillonHall
Tommy 12-2
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Oops, my bad. I don't know anything about elite 11 and I didn't watch any of it.
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HereComeTheIrish
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Hell, I would have thrown any game that gravy training moron coached in. I totally understand what happened now.
bert2834
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woolybug25
#1 Vineyard Vines Fan
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But he was 11-2 as a starter for the Baltimore Ravens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
haha, Johnnykillz could have been 11-2 on that team.
Terry Tate would have been undefeated
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HereComeTheIrish
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But he was 11-2 as a starter for the Baltimore Ravens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Awwwww....hell no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
anarin
They call me Chuck.
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But he was 11-2 as a starter for the Baltimore Ravens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God that sounds eerily similiar to a Rees argument
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HereComeTheIrish
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God that sounds eerily similiar to a Rees argument
It's only for 5 more days.....
J
johnnykillz
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J
johnnykillz
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Catch your breath, Terry.
Riddickulous
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Gentlemen, gentlemen. On topic, please.
J
johnnykillz
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Here come the truck stick!
Did you watch the elite 11 competition? He did not even finish in the top 11. It was on tv. The counselors were not happy with his performance. Said something about not stepping up to the competition in drills or some sort. Like I said it was awhile ago but I remember having a slght chuckle over it.
Also it is not just 7v7. It was film study, drills, and 7-7.
ESPN RISE Elite 11 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Sweetness34
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Who cares that he didn't get in the Elite 11. I know there are some of the best college players that made it but it doesn't equal college success, remember that Zach Frazer and Mitch Mustain among other guys who didn't pan out made the 11. In the right system and situation Gunner will be fine. Come on, with a name like Gunner he can't help but be good.
Old Man Mike
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....one can't help but wonder what the point is of demeaning some recruit because of some particular camp activity [even that of which seems to be under some dispute], when people who do evaluations across the country, including our Coach and staff, believe that he is one of if not the best QB prospect out there???
Board behavior continues to puzzle me and lead me to the conclusion that hundreds of PhD dissertations are available analyzing the bulletin board remarks of sports team posters. Perhaps the relaxation drug and alcohol companies would be willing to sponsor the research.
I will, to add to the prospective data, chip in with: Gunner Kiel looks like a great High School Quarterback prospect to me, and I believe that any team in the country would like to sign him. Please come to Notre Dame and "Welcome" with open arms if you do, young man.
Regarding who gets on the field: Kelly will do what he does every time --- open competition and next-man-in. Yes, Tommy will be hard to displace next year, but if anyone's good enough on the single criterion of "who gives us the best chance to win games NOW", then that person will be in the game.
Board behavior continues to puzzle me and lead me to the conclusion that hundreds of PhD dissertations are available analyzing the bulletin board remarks of sports team posters. Perhaps the relaxation drug and alcohol companies would be willing to sponsor the research.
I will, to add to the prospective data, chip in with: Gunner Kiel looks like a great High School Quarterback prospect to me, and I believe that any team in the country would like to sign him. Please come to Notre Dame and "Welcome" with open arms if you do, young man.
Regarding who gets on the field: Kelly will do what he does every time --- open competition and next-man-in. Yes, Tommy will be hard to displace next year, but if anyone's good enough on the single criterion of "who gives us the best chance to win games NOW", then that person will be in the game.
ndcoltsfan2010
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Lets not kid ourselves here.., Gunner is a heck of a quarterback and is one of the best out there. Wherever he ends up (hopefully to ND) he will have a shot to be a tremendous asset. I am rooting for this young man to commit to ND because I think he can really help us and be the quarterback of the future. He will also help our chances with some other recruits out there that are considering us as well. C'mon Gunner..., South Bend will welcome you with open arms,
rtrn2glory
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i would certainly love to read about the QB competition this spring if we can land gunner...talk about needing to bring your A game to every practice.
woolybug25
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I'm well aware of what it was and I did watch it. I don't recall a single person "ripping him" (they're not in the business of "ripping" high school kids at a friendly camp) and every analyst report after it said that he was one of the most impressive guys there. It is still just a camp, anyone that is going to make their complete prospect evaluation off of a single camp has bought into the whole 7-on-7 craze and disregarding the other 99% of what goes into talent evaluation.
If you want to believe that he isn't good because of a single camp, good for you. I will base my evaluation of him on the tape, his stats, his physical traits, and years of evaluation from people that do it for more than 5 day spans.
Wooleybug...
at what point did I say he was not any good? Every post dealt with correcting someone who stated he made the elite 11. He did not. Also stated that they said something negative about him but could not remember what. He was eliminated for a reason and they did say it. Just not sure what it was. Agreed that it was a few days and does not matter much. Just talking about elite 11 and you stuck your nose in a conversation and assumed I meant something different than I said.
at what point did I say he was not any good? Every post dealt with correcting someone who stated he made the elite 11. He did not. Also stated that they said something negative about him but could not remember what. He was eliminated for a reason and they did say it. Just not sure what it was. Agreed that it was a few days and does not matter much. Just talking about elite 11 and you stuck your nose in a conversation and assumed I meant something different than I said.
Old Man Mike
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There's been so much talk at cross-purposes on the thread about Kiel and the Elite 11, that I thought that it must be more complicated than how people are portraying it [a situation regretfully common on the board]. I went fishing about on google and came up with some quotes which may or may not be useful to anyone's assessments. [all of these are from persons watching the event in person, usually services like Rivals or Scout]:
" Kiel entered the event as one of, if not the most highly-touted prospect in the 2012 class and overall met expectations. He is a physically great looking prospect on the hoof who is a better athlete than you might think. He possesses a big arm and a very tight, compact delivery, that, at times, is so tight that he can look tense in the upper body. He has good feet, is accustomed to working from under center and out of the shotgun and, at times, displayed real arm talent to stretch the field with power and velocity. Kiel throws surprisingly well on the move and is very natural doing it. He is one of those guys who could be a deceptive runner in a spread scheme and also be a bonafide pocket passer. His scheme versatility is impressive". [sounds terrible to me, eh?
"Though he has been one of the top quarterbacks all week, Kiel hasn't necessarily been head and shoulders above the competition. On Wednesday, with all the variables thrown together, he showed why he is regarded as the top quarterback recruit in the nation. He went 7-for-8 on the afternoon, his only incompletion coming on a dropped pass. Every throw was on the money and had some heat behind it. Even his cadence was NFL caliber, showing command at the line of scrimmage and almost drawing his own players off-sides with his hard counts." [yep, he did just terrible].
Then several others emerged as very good performers, especially a guy named Winston. "It's going to be an interesting debate [over who is the best prospect] because Kiel performed really well during certain times of the event but Winston was consistently more impressive throughout the entire showcase". [hmmm...someone looked a little better? Disastrous!].
Different evaluator than previous quoted: "OK, so maybe it's a cop=out to choose 1A and 1B, but there's not a lot that separates the physical ability of Winston and Kiel. Kiel has a big, big arm, but he seems content to throttle down and work on his release. [we should remember that this Elite 11 is a Teaching Camp, not a Glory Camp --- the media will make it the latter]. He's almost flicking his wrist now and generating spin and velocity... and accuracy. His release has gotten quicker over the last year that we've seen him [Kiel participated in the 2010 event], and he still makes all the throws".
" Kiel entered the event as one of, if not the most highly-touted prospect in the 2012 class and overall met expectations. He is a physically great looking prospect on the hoof who is a better athlete than you might think. He possesses a big arm and a very tight, compact delivery, that, at times, is so tight that he can look tense in the upper body. He has good feet, is accustomed to working from under center and out of the shotgun and, at times, displayed real arm talent to stretch the field with power and velocity. Kiel throws surprisingly well on the move and is very natural doing it. He is one of those guys who could be a deceptive runner in a spread scheme and also be a bonafide pocket passer. His scheme versatility is impressive". [sounds terrible to me, eh?
"Though he has been one of the top quarterbacks all week, Kiel hasn't necessarily been head and shoulders above the competition. On Wednesday, with all the variables thrown together, he showed why he is regarded as the top quarterback recruit in the nation. He went 7-for-8 on the afternoon, his only incompletion coming on a dropped pass. Every throw was on the money and had some heat behind it. Even his cadence was NFL caliber, showing command at the line of scrimmage and almost drawing his own players off-sides with his hard counts." [yep, he did just terrible].
Then several others emerged as very good performers, especially a guy named Winston. "It's going to be an interesting debate [over who is the best prospect] because Kiel performed really well during certain times of the event but Winston was consistently more impressive throughout the entire showcase". [hmmm...someone looked a little better? Disastrous!].
Different evaluator than previous quoted: "OK, so maybe it's a cop=out to choose 1A and 1B, but there's not a lot that separates the physical ability of Winston and Kiel. Kiel has a big, big arm, but he seems content to throttle down and work on his release. [we should remember that this Elite 11 is a Teaching Camp, not a Glory Camp --- the media will make it the latter]. He's almost flicking his wrist now and generating spin and velocity... and accuracy. His release has gotten quicker over the last year that we've seen him [Kiel participated in the 2010 event], and he still makes all the throws".
Old Man Mike
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Concerning the final Elite 11: this group was chosen by Trent Dilfer, it is his list. I have nothing against Trent Dilfer, by the way. This is just to point out that the eleven were one man's opinion and not all men's opinion. Dilfer said that picking eleven was extremely tough. I have not read what his criteria were. If someone knows what they were maybe they have an educated opinion about why Kiel did not make the list and whether that omission was reasonable/just.
Some quotes:
"Dilfer choked up a few times Friday as he announced the final 11-man group, cut from 24 quarterbacks in attendance this week.... Head coach at the five-day event, Dilfer, ... emphasized the competition was fierce and that every quarterback performed well."
"Former NFL quarterback Trent Dilfer, who coached the Elite 11 finals, said he admired Kiel's leadership on the field. He is far from shy around teammates in public. Dilfer said he noticed similarities between Gunner and a young Manning.
Think of Peyton in his first couple years in the NFL, Dilfer said. "He was a total goofball, and now he is one of the best marketing tools in the history of sports. He's got one of the most dynamic personalities out there. I would say that there's a lot of Peyton Manning in Gunner Kiel". [concerning whether Gunner has the total "seriousness" to get Trent to rate him above the 11 all-day-on-the-job-at-camp guys: let those who have ears hear.]
Others in authority positions in the camp also rated players separately from Dilfer:
"The college quarterbacks who worked as counsellors ... devised their own list of awards, headlined by a top five of Mangum, Winston, Burcham, Robinette, and [OH NO!!] Gunner Kiel."
Well, he surely seems to have been pedestrian at the Elite 11.
Go Gunner!! Choose ND!!!
Some quotes:
"Dilfer choked up a few times Friday as he announced the final 11-man group, cut from 24 quarterbacks in attendance this week.... Head coach at the five-day event, Dilfer, ... emphasized the competition was fierce and that every quarterback performed well."
"Former NFL quarterback Trent Dilfer, who coached the Elite 11 finals, said he admired Kiel's leadership on the field. He is far from shy around teammates in public. Dilfer said he noticed similarities between Gunner and a young Manning.
Think of Peyton in his first couple years in the NFL, Dilfer said. "He was a total goofball, and now he is one of the best marketing tools in the history of sports. He's got one of the most dynamic personalities out there. I would say that there's a lot of Peyton Manning in Gunner Kiel". [concerning whether Gunner has the total "seriousness" to get Trent to rate him above the 11 all-day-on-the-job-at-camp guys: let those who have ears hear.]
Others in authority positions in the camp also rated players separately from Dilfer:
"The college quarterbacks who worked as counsellors ... devised their own list of awards, headlined by a top five of Mangum, Winston, Burcham, Robinette, and [OH NO!!] Gunner Kiel."
Well, he surely seems to have been pedestrian at the Elite 11.
Go Gunner!! Choose ND!!!
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