No more national anthem at pacifist Indiana college

[NDFan4Life]

Goshen - A small northern Indiana college has decided to stop playing "The Star-Spangled Banner" at sporting events after starting to do so for the first time last year.

Goshen College's board of directors says it will find an alternative that honors the country and the Mennonite Church-affiliated school's pacifist traditions.

The 1,000-student college has been playing an instrumental version of the national anthem, followed by a peace prayer, before games and other events. Some were upset with the school's decision last year because the song's lyrics contain references to using war and military might to defend the country.

Art professor John Blosser tells The Goshen News that there is much national pride at the school, but that most people aren't going to blindly accept what the country does.

No more national anthem at pacifist Indiana college - 13 WTHR

Edited to add link from Goshen College:

Goshen College Board of Directors ask for alternative to playing the national anthem

 

[Veer option]

Damned America hating, borscht eating, vodka swilling, pinko commies.

 

[NDFan4Life]

Damned America hating, borscht eating, vodka swilling, pinko commies.

There's nothing wrong with vodka.

Especially in White Russians or Bloody Marys.

 

[Veer option]

Too right, I apologize to all the vodka swillers in IE.

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

From what I understand, the Mennonites do not try to support things relating to war. But it is as much their right to do so as it is a christian organization to be closed Sunday. Religious freedom allows this.

To me, it's no different than ND telling me I can't be hired to a job over there because I am pro-choice, and they believe in pro-life.

 

[JadeBrecks]

"goshen college athletics" did they ever even have a chance to play it? They stopped playing it at athletic games. Did they even have a team for any sport?

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

My cousin is actually going to attend this fall on a softball scholarship.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Pacifists annoy me.

 

[phgreek]

Goshen - A small northern Indiana college has decided to stop playing "The Star-Spangled Banner" at sporting events after starting to do so for the first time last year.

Goshen College's board of directors says it will find an alternative that honors the country and the Mennonite Church-affiliated school's pacifist traditions.

The 1,000-student college has been playing an instrumental version of the national anthem, followed by a peace prayer, before games and other events. Some were upset with the school's decision last year because the song's lyrics contain references to using war and military might to defend the country.

Art professor John Blosser tells The Goshen News that there is much national pride at the school, but that most people aren't going to blindly accept what the country does.

No more national anthem at pacifist Indiana college - 13 WTHR

Edited to add link from Goshen College:

Goshen College Board of Directors ask for alternative to playing the national anthem

Good for them, more power to them...alot of good folks died to give them the right to do this.

I think people start to get angry when their response to Goshen's choice is questioned...here is what I mean...

Goshen discontinued the use of National Anthem. Its their right. In response, I have the right to ban the hiring of Goshen students...and to ban the use or reference of any research products, publications, or findings from use in any ongoing works in any of my companies. I further have the right to terminate any contracts they may have with any of my companies. I further have the right to reccomend against issuance of federal money to this institution in deference to another which more closely represents my values, since they get some level of funding with my tax dollars.

People go nuts when the response is to withdraw support in any way from a place like this...the claims will be censorship, intimidation, blah, blah blah. Bottom line is, they don't have a warm fuzzy over the national anthem...similarly I don't have a warm fuzzy for them

we both should pull our support from the thing we don't agree with under the same protections...right?

Hey and next time we have a war here...I'll vote for letting them try that pacifism out...we'll use the troops elsewhere...

 

[ryno 24]

I live in Goshen and very few people want the college around and what it stands for

 

[dshans]

I live in Goshen and very few people want the college around and what it stands for

So you've polled each and every resident, including those employed by the college and attending the college?

Warmongers **** me off.

Let the feathers fly.

 

[ThePiombino]

Will the school also no longer be accepting government funding of any sort? Didn't think so...

 

[pkt77242]

Will the school also no longer be accepting government funding of any sort? Didn't think so...

I am not a pacifist, but I will defend them here. How does your logic make any rational sense?

What now to be an American you have to believe that war is the answer? or maybe if someone disagree with one part of the government they should just move to Canada (note the sarcasm)?

Most of us disagree with one or multiple things that the government does but that doesn't make us unamerican.

 

[pkt77242]

They could play a song like America the Beautiful before their games. A nice patriotic song.

 

[phgreek]

Will the school also no longer be accepting government funding of any sort? Didn't think so...

They will gladly put their hand out like any other school, and take this nation's money.

No Rockets red glare, No bombs bursting in air...The United States would have been a short-lived notion.

To me it is the grandest form of hypocrisy...but it is their right to do so.

It is our right to be offended, and to act accordingly...something folks who instigate things like this hate to hear.

 

[phgreek]

So you've polled each and every resident, including those employed by the college and attending the college?

Warmongers **** me off.

Let the feathers fly.

Come on Dshans...its not like he said it was an official poll...its his take...

What constitutes a War Monger...? Someone (me) who believes war is the last step in diplomacy (although lately everyone seems to think diplomacy means appeasement). War is a measure that should be avoided...and we sure do let politicians screw it up, at least once a generation...but it is a necessary part of being a Nation.

No feathers...although I will await my normal grammar beat down.

 

[military_irish]

The country was formed from fighting wars and protecting our freedoms. The song was not written to support or encourage war in the future but rather to show appreciation for the men and women who fought to form this country.

On that note these freedoms are also the reason we still fight today. To give anyone and everyone the right to do whatever they please within their constitutional rights.

 

[dshans]

Will the school also no longer be accepting government funding of any sort? Didn't think so...

Do they get government funding as it is?

Does any government funding, for whatever reason, involve a clause that states "You must play the National Anthem at any sports event, should you have any" or your funds are revoked?

Would this be at all similar to Notre Dame's possible refusal to host a sitting United State's president speaking at a commencement?

Would this be at all akin to the US government paying obscene amounts of money to the likes of Halliburton and Blackwater while being scammed in efforts not in our best interest?

****, ****, ****. Wrap damn near anything in the US flag with strains of the National Anthem wafting in the breeze and it becomes damn near "gospel" to far too many. No matter what. As long as it involves ordnance.

I "came of age" in the '60's. Uncle Sam and the SSS wanted to draft me (I drew #34 in the lottery as a freshman at ND) to participate in a war I felt was folly and indefensible. I neither wanted to kill nor be killed. As a product of a Catholic upbringing my odds of being granted CO status, surprisingly were in the negative. This in spite of Jesus' "Turn the other cheek" and other pacifist teachings.

Most of you are too young to know that "The Hippie Sixties" were pretty much a load of PR bull****. LBJ was replaced by Nixon (with his "secret plan" to end the war) by a huge margin – backed by a not-so-silent-majority wielding hammers and hard hats with flag decals plastered on the sides.

I bid farewell to Sunday Mass and reflexively and mindlessly standing, hand over heart, to the National Anthem played so blithely and meaninglessly at sporting events of every ilk.

 

[irishpat183]

Good for them, more power to them...alot of good folks died to give them the right to do this.

I think people start to get angry when their response to Goshen's choice is questioned...here is what I mean...

Goshen discontinued the use of National Anthem. Its their right. In response, I have the right to ban the hiring of Goshen students...and to ban the use or reference of any research products, publications, or findings from use in any ongoing works in any of my companies. I further have the right to terminate any contracts they may have with any of my companies. I further have the right to reccomend against issuance of federal money to this institution in deference to another which more closely represents my values, since they get some level of funding with my tax dollars.

People go nuts when the response is to withdraw support in any way from a place like this...the claims will be censorship, intimidation, blah, blah blah. Bottom line is, they don't have a warm fuzzy over the national anthem...similarly I don't have a warm fuzzy for them

we both should pull our support from the thing we don't agree with under the same protections...right?

Hey and next time we have a war here...I'll vote for letting them try that pacifism out...we'll use the troops elsewhere...

Amen, bro! It's amazing that they don't realize that they wouldn't be here without those willing to pull a trigger.

 

[Rhode Irish]

It takes all kinds in this world. I'm not going to begrudge anyone their worldview. I'm not a pacifist, but there are worse things to be. If they want to honor their country by choosing a different patriotic song, that doesn't offend me even though I love our national anthem. I have been to Fort McHenry, where Francis Scott Key wrote the anthem during a British attack on the fort, multiple times. I'm moved by the story. If others aren't that is their right. I don't see it as anything to get upset about.

 

[ACamp1900]

It's their right,... more power to them...

but on a side note... in all due respect, speaking on a poster I have respect for and who is rightfully on my "friends list," it never seizes to amaze me how some people can live in this country,... earn a top education, in this country,... make a good living and life for themselves, in this country.... enjoy all the freedoms that this country alone has given them and theirs, then speak things like the National Anthem is "mindless and meaningless"... I never understood that mindset... never will.

 

[Veer option]

brb checking your friends list.

 

[NDFan4Life]

I guess I'll chime in here since I opened this can of worms.

I'm going to agree with phgreek on this one. It's they're (the college's) choice not to play the national anthem. At the same time, it's my perogative not to send my kids to that college.

I wasn't pleased when ND invited Obama to speak a few years ago, but that's they're choice. I still love ND, so in the grand scheme of things, it really didn't matter.

I'll go back to swilling my vodka now.

 

[Old Man Mike]

To add a little factual information into to this hate-slinging thread: [quite disgusting all around to me, but at least it's in the Leprechaun Lounge so I must "obey" everyone's right to throw rocks at one another].

Goshen College received government money in the form of two grants in 2010: 1). a grant from the Department of Health and Human Services for tuition assistance for graduate school nursing students; and 2). a grant from the Department of Education to support a "Campus Center for Childcare" for children of low-income students. I trust that everyone will make of that what they will.

It reminds me a bit of the old story about Stalin. He stated that contrary to external opinion, he was quite patient with people objecting to his policies. When that statement was met with raised eyebrows, he said: Oh yes. I listen and hear them out. Then I order them shot. [he then went back to his vodka].

It's a great hatin' world to live in. We need all the threads on this sort of thing that we can get.

 

[ACamp1900]

indeed, let's not have a fairly resonable dialogue about this, when we can just call it a hate thread, and compare it to Stalin shooting people in the streets... lol

way to stay above it all Old Man

 

[Old Man Mike]

Leprechaun Lounge --- nobody stays above it all here. I have the same right here as anyone to express my opinion. Just because you don't like it, you respond with yours. I accept your right to do so, even though you made it personal and my post was generically disapproving. But, hey!, if it makes you happy, have a ball.

 

[ACamp1900]

Addressing a poster and explaining why is too personal and 'disgusting all around to you"... but making a sweeping comparrison of many posters to Stalin is neither?... right.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I grew up in Goshen, raised as a Mennonite and attended Goshen College. I will try to answer any questions any of you might have to the best of my ability but with the understanding that I am just one person with one view that may not be consistent with others that are Mennonite or went to Goshen College.

Part of the problem as it relates to Goshen College's decision, is that there is not one consistent view as it relates to the National Anthem within the Mennonite community or for that matter the concept of a "Just War". Goshen College was going to upset many people in the Mennonite community no matter what decision they made. Believe it or not, not all Mennonites would agree with the College's decision.

The Mennonite community is made up of a wide spectrum of people, on one end some of who would be called extremely conservative and the other end some who would be called progressive. (I can hear you laughing at the thought of a progressive Mennonite).

As it relates to the National Anthem at a Goshen College ball game, the views within the Mennonite community would range from belief that only prayer should be offered up prior to the game to others fully supporting the playing of the National Anthem while proudly singing with hands on our hearts.

As it relates to war, some would view all war as wrong. Others would view war as a last resort but can be justified under certain circumstances. Some would believe that under no circumstances could they serve in the military, even in a non-combat role. Others would have no problem serving in non-combat roles, while others have even served in combat roles.

I would say that most Mennonites love this country and the religious freedoms that we have here. This is especially true when viewed in the light of the persecution that the Mennonite Church has had through history. They know we are lucky to live in such a free country and I would say many truly appreciate the soldiers who sacrificed their very lives so that we can have those freedoms. I can see why many would view that as hyprocritical.

I love this country and wish Goshen College would've decided to play the National Anthem, but I still respect the choice that they have made although I'm still a bit confused as to the Board's recommendation that an "alternative" that honor's country be implemented. I suppose that could mean "God Bless America", but at this point I'm not really sure.

 

[Old Man Mike]

ab2cmiller: applaud everything about your post.

 

[ACamp1900]

As do I... see mike, we can agree on something.