Can any of Notre Dame's 2007-2009 struggles be placed on Jimmy?

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I hope things like this never catch on. Jimmy was such a special QB. His accuracy was ridiculous and he was tough. Played through injury his whole 3 years. We may never see a more talented QB at Notre Dame ever again. His offensive line was horrendous. The defense was horrendous.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Title2012, I repped you for that photo, but I hit the wrong button and cutoff my message to you. I can't stop chuckling at that pic and message. The thought of those two fingers...Ouch Doctor! Ay Papi!

 

[phgreek]

Yeah, 70s music...I tell ya...YouTube - K.C. and The Sunshine Band - Boogie Shoes

Seems to me Diaco and staff is simply coaching the classic 5-2 Okie. Now called the 3-4. I called Diaco a great DC within the first 3 games on this forum.

Whatever.

Ph. , you have alway been class.

you edited out the funiest part...about my sister and all...I don't have one, but if so you'd probably have made the approved list...err maybe not?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Nah Boss. Trust me. I would have made the list. The ladies, especially the sister you don't have, love to pet me. I enjoy getting petted by ladies...that...aren't there. Something like that.

I'm so cute and sexy, sometimes I lick myself.

Because I CAN.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Title2012, I repped you for that photo, but I hit the wrong button and cutoff my message to you. I can't stop chuckling at that pic and message. The thought of those two fingers...Ouch Doctor! Ay Papi!

Thank EDSBS for that one. Great blog.

 

[phgreek]

Nah Boss. Trust me. I would have made the list. The ladies, especially the sister you don't have, love to pet me. I enjoy getting petted by ladies...that...aren't there. Something like that.

I'm so cute and sexy, sometimes I lick myself.

Because I CAN.

ya know...you always say the stuff we are thinkin'...or wishin'

 

[irishtrain]

For me--disappointment by the fact that he did not return for a 4th year--he would have been excellant. These guys have to be off the charts to leave after 3 years and he was just coming into his own. Now he will struggle at the Sunday games and pray for a team to have patience. I dont think he made a wise decision. But who am I to speak for Jimmy Clausen.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Thank EDSBS for that one. Great blog.

They like to have someone stick two fingers up ...t

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I'm on the fence. He was brilliant in 09 and put up staggering numbers. He was really accurate. The defense was really bad. Really bad.

To the original point...no, the struggles weren't on Jimmy. But, in the end, QBs are evaluated by Wins and Losses. He was just okay in that category. His fault? Probably not much.

It was just a shame that he left. Having an experienced QB would have bridged the gap between the two systems...might have saved some heart ache this season.

That might be the legacy of 2008-09. The recruiting and some of the elite players seemed to put us back on the path after some lean years.

 

[Kingbish01]

Jimmy was great at ND, and so was Brady Quinn. But I think they will have similar NFL careers.

 

[irishpat183]

Some of these comments about Clausen are unbelieveable. I think his career was at the least a bit of a dissapointment. He was good passer, not great. And wasn't that great of a leader/field general. Was extremely immature(the fact that he left early when just about everyone knew he wasn't ready, really did it for me). Yes, he had gobs of talent, but didn't have the wins to show for it. You can blame defenses or whatever, but there are QB's with much less to work with, that won more than Jimmy did. And Weis can't be to blame either, he turned Brady Quinn from a 50% passer into a Heisman canidate.

I hate to rag on him, but it is what it is. Jimmy came in with all the high school accolades you could ask for, and an attitude (which isn't a bad thing all the time) but he never really hit that level. I'd say, B-, C+ career at ND. Leaving early (his CHOICE FYI, really cost him)

Quinn was a much better ND QB that didn't get the credit that he was due.

Now I'm gonna get slammed. But I'm sticking to my guns.

 

[Kingbish01]

I don't think you'll get slammed too bad, we all watched the games. He didn't beat one top 25 team his whole career at ND. Beat one rival, and that was a 3-9 Michigan team in '08. I would take Quinn over Jimmy everyday.

Here are his wins at ND:

Purdue twice
Mich St.
Nevada
Wash twice
B.C.
Wash St.
S.D. State
Mich
Stan twice
Navy (once)
Hawaii
Ucla
Duke

 

[irishpat183]

I don't think you'll get slammed too bad, we all watched the games. He didn't beat one top 25 team his whole career at ND. Beat one rival, and that was a 3-9 Michigan team in '08. I would take Quinn over Jimmy everyday.

Here are his wins at ND:

Purdue twice
Mich St.
Nevada
Wash twice
B.C.
Wash St.
S.D. State
Mich
Stan twice
Navy (once)
Hawaii
Ucla
Duke

Sometimes being a real fan means looking at your team from a different prospective. People claim it was the defense, or Charlie, the weather....but I have to say that Jimmy was as much to blame (if not more) than any of those factors. To be really honest? I never liked him after the presser for his announcement. I never thought he really fit in at ND.

Just my opinion.

 

[ACamp1900]

Jimmy was a great player and a good leader... The Golden Boy P.H. won the Heisman for a losing team, was he to blame???

It's a hard question to answer really, football is a team game so one player can not be held accountable, but since it is a team game win and loses as a team should weigh heavily into a players indy greatness... I'm not gonna say you can place struggles on him, but you can't say he's the greatest this and that without one single big win, and losing records against every single one of our main rivals... including Navy... well, there you have it.

 

[Rocket89]

Some of these comments about Clausen are unbelieveable. I think his career was at the least a bit of a dissapointment. He was good passer, not great. And wasn't that great of a leader/field general. Was extremely immature(the fact that he left early when just about everyone knew he wasn't ready, really did it for me). Yes, he had gobs of talent, but didn't have the wins to show for it. You can blame defenses or whatever, but there are QB's with much less to work with, that won more than Jimmy did. And Weis can't be to blame either, he turned Brady Quinn from a 50% passer into a Heisman canidate.

I hate to rag on him, but it is what it is. Jimmy came in with all the high school accolades you could ask for, and an attitude (which isn't a bad thing all the time) but he never really hit that level. I'd say, B-, C+ career at ND. Leaving early (his CHOICE FYI, really cost him)

Quinn was a much better ND QB that didn't get the credit that he was due.

Now I'm gonna get slammed. But I'm sticking to my guns.

I wouldn't slam that opinion, and of course Clausen's career was a bit of a disappointment. But I don't really agree with your total assessment.

I would say Clausen was a great passer. If he wasn't, who is? He had great touch, supreme accuracy, and set the single-season quarterback rating in 2009.

Wasn't a great field general? Eh...pretty debatable there. He was thrown into the fire as a freshman and continued to get better every year. His attitude rubbed the people the wrong way, but I don't think there's any doubt he was a warrior on the field. Playing hurt all the time and especially during his last season shows a lot of heart, especially when he put the team on his shoulders every game.

Immature? Again, he had a personality that rubbed people the wrong way. I definitely thought he matured as he got older. Him leaving early has nothing to do with his maturity so I would just dismiss that argument. And did "everyone know" he wasn't ready for the NFL? Because I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case.

So yeah the wins aren't there and that will always be the knock on Clausen. But it really wasn't his fault in most respects.

How does Weis turning Quinn into a Heisman candidate absolve him from failing to develop the program from 2007 to 2009? That's the weirdest logic I've ever seen.

A B- career or C+ career is pretty harsh. It seems like you're bothered that he left early and that he was the No. 1 recruit and should have achieved more. That's fair enough, but he had a lot going against him that Quinn didn't.

Quinn had a quality run game, Clausen never did.

Quinn had a decent defense, Clausen had bad ones (including perhaps the worst ever in 2009).

Stuff like that matters. I'd probably take Quinn's career (who wouldn't?) but Clausen clearly showed to me that he was the more talented and clutch player. It didn't result in more wins but how can anyone knock him and blame him for the losses and so few wins against good teams?

 

[Mirer3Powlus]

Why on Earth are some of you blaming Jimmy for leaving a year early? Everyone was slotting him as a top ten pick (and were subsequently SHOCKED when he fell as far as he did), and he would've had to learn a completely new offense in his senior year, which could probably have dropped his stock a fair amount. The reason Clausen came to Notre Dame was for Weis and the pro style offense that we were running, and when that left he had no other choice.

That... and I have no clue how you could watch the 2009 season and think he wasn't ready for the NFL. The guy threw four picks all season, and I think three of those were tipped. There was nothing left for him to learn at the college level.

 

[maison bleu]

IMO, he's always been massively over-rated. Wasn't he like 2 years older than most freshman when he arrived at ND? Could be why his upside has been so limited... He was as mature (physically) as he was ever going to get.

And as a pro? Here's the bottom line: as a Saints fan, I'm thrilled to have him playing in our division, as opposed to Sam Bradford or someone else with a real NFL future.

 

[Mirer3Powlus]

IMO, he's always been massively over-rated. Wasn't he like 2 years older than most freshman when he arrived at ND? Could be why his upside has been so limited... He was as mature (physically) as he was ever going to get.

And as a pro? Here's the bottom line: as a Saints fan, I'm thrilled to have him playing in our division, as opposed to Sam Bradford or someone else with a real NFL future.

Wow, I didn't that players peaked when they're 19!

And yeah, Clausen is obviously the reason why Carolina is down in the dumps. It couldn't be their constantly injured and patchwork O-Line, their under - performing running backs, or the fact that they have the worst receiving corps in the NFL... the guy in your icon is the one without an NFL future.

 

[irishpat183]

I wouldn't slam that opinion, and of course Clausen's career was a bit of a disappointment. But I don't really agree with your total assessment.

I would say Clausen was a great passer. If he wasn't, who is? He had great touch, supreme accuracy, and set the single-season quarterback rating in 2009.

Wasn't a great field general? Eh...pretty debatable there. He was thrown into the fire as a freshman and continued to get better every year. His attitude rubbed the people the wrong way, but I don't think there's any doubt he was a warrior on the field. Playing hurt all the time and especially during his last season shows a lot of heart, especially when he put the team on his shoulders every game.

Immature? Again, he had a personality that rubbed people the wrong way. I definitely thought he matured as he got older. Him leaving early has nothing to do with his maturity so I would just dismiss that argument. And did "everyone know" he wasn't ready for the NFL? Because I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case.

So yeah the wins aren't there and that will always be the knock on Clausen. But it really wasn't his fault in most respects.

How does Weis turning Quinn into a Heisman candidate absolve him from failing to develop the program from 2007 to 2009? That's the weirdest logic I've ever seen.

A B- career or C+ career is pretty harsh. It seems like you're bothered that he left early and that he was the No. 1 recruit and should have achieved more. That's fair enough, but he had a lot going against him that Quinn didn't.

Quinn had a quality run game, Clausen never did.

Quinn had a decent defense, Clausen had bad ones (including perhaps the worst ever in 2009).

Stuff like that matters. I'd probably take Quinn's career (who wouldn't?) but Clausen clearly showed to me that he was the more talented and clutch player. It didn't result in more wins but how can anyone knock him and blame him for the losses and so few wins against good teams?

A couple things:

Yes, Clausen made some throws that won games for us. No doubt. But again, they weren't against anyone significant. Quinn didn't really win any big games either, but he could beat the MICH's and Stan's and Navy's... and nearly beat USC (people forget that Quinn drove the field and won that game, had it not been for the D giving it up). Quinn won some games for us as well. While they may not have been thrillers, he won more against better opponents.

When it comes to him leaving early....he needed one more year. I didn't think he was ready mentally for the league. His game is cocky. Which isn't always a bad thing. But at times it really works against you. And guys with this kind of attitude generally aren't well recieved in the lockeroom. I have heard rumors that he wasn't a very popular guy in South Bend, could be rumors, but from the looks of him and how he acted, I don't think that's very far fetched. Jimmy NEEDED one more year.

As far as Weis goes, he was great at grooming starters and high caliber guys...especially offensive starters. He just didn't know how to build any depth or develop those 3 star guys. He did great with Quinn and Clausen...but Quinn is a little smarter, and more mature. And Quinn didn't have a defense to brag about either. It's just that Charlie had such a good offense that they could mask how bad the D was. They couldn't beat anybody that could score. So throw that argument out. ND's D has been bad for years. And I'd argue that Jimmy had just as good weapons around him as Quinn had. I think that's a wash.

And it does, in football, come down to the QB position. Like it or not. Great QB's can win without all-americans around them.

I know Jimmy is a golden god to some, but I never liked him all that much. Lotta hype and nothing to show for it.

 

[irishpat183]

Why on Earth are some of you blaming Jimmy for leaving a year early? Everyone was slotting him as a top ten pick (and were subsequently SHOCKED when he fell as far as he did), and he would've had to learn a completely new offense in his senior year, which could probably have dropped his stock a fair amount. The reason Clausen came to Notre Dame was for Weis and the pro style offense that we were running, and when that left he had no other choice.

That... and I have no clue how you could watch the 2009 season and think he wasn't ready for the NFL. The guy threw four picks all season, and I think three of those were tipped. There was nothing left for him to learn at the college level.

Look past the guys that slotted him as top 10. I never thought Jimmy was top 10 material. I wasn't shocked at all that he dropped. In fact, when watching the draft, the day of, most said that he'd drop. It was pre draft hype that deemed him top 10. I never thought Jimmy was mentally ready for the league.

 

[irishpat183]

IMO, he's always been massively over-rated. Wasn't he like 2 years older than most freshman when he arrived at ND? Could be why his upside has been so limited... He was as mature (physically) as he was ever going to get.

And as a pro? Here's the bottom line: as a Saints fan, I'm thrilled to have him playing in our division, as opposed to Sam Bradford or someone else with a real NFL future.

I agree with you to a point. I'm not ready to give up on him just yet. While I think he was a bit overrated, he is very, very talented. Lets see if his head catches up with his skill. It was his rookie year, and he was on the worst team in the NFL. Keep that in perspective

 

[Mirer3Powlus]

When it comes to him leaving early....he needed one more year. I didn't think he was ready mentally for the league. His game is cocky. Which isn't always a bad thing. But at times it really works against you. And guys with this kind of attitude generally aren't well recieved in the lockeroom. I have heard rumors that he wasn't a very popular guy in South Bend, could be rumors, but from the looks of him and how he acted, I don't think that's very far fetched. Jimmy NEEDED one more year.

You are making zero sense. You keep saying he needed to mature, but how was he going to change in his senior year from what he had become through his first three seasons? You really think him staying one more year would have completely changed his attitude and the person that he is? Jimmy sealed his fate in that regard the day he stepped foot onto the College Football Hall of Fame to announce his commitment to us. People had their opinions on him, and one more season wasn't going to change that.

You can have your own views on Clausen's career at Notre Dame and whether he lived up to the hype, because that's all fine and subjective, but you're flat out wrong if you are seriously trying to say that one more season under a completely different head coach with a completely different scheme around him would have benefitted his career in any way, especially when that offense is a pass - oriented spread that generally isn't well received by scouts and experts at the professional level. It's laughable that you're even trying to suggest this.

 

[irishpat183]

You are making zero sense. You keep saying he needed to mature, but how was he going to change in his senior year from what he had become through his first three seasons? You really think him staying one more year would have completely changed his attitude and the person that he is? Jimmy sealed his fate in that regard the day he stepped foot onto the College Football Hall of Fame to announce his commitment to us. People had their opinions on him, and one more season wasn't going to change that.

You can have your own views on Clausen's career at Notre Dame and whether he lived up to the hype, because that's all fine and subjective, but you're flat out wrong if you are seriously trying to say that one more season under a completely different head coach with a completely different scheme around him would have benefitted his career in any way, especially when that offense is a pass - oriented spread that generally isn't well received by scouts and experts at the professional level. It's laughable that you're even trying to suggest this.

So you think that players don't benefit (mentally) from staying for their senior season? And I'm the one that is not making sense........

It absolutely helps to have one more year under your belt. Especially a guy with his makeup. Might've humbled him to have to earn his spot under a new regime. I think it would've made all the difference in the world. And who's to say that Kelly wouldn't have been beneficial to Jimmy??? Yeah, new system, but I'm sure they would've found ways to make it work. Besides he dropped to the second round anyway, even with the system he was in.

Laugh all you want.

 

[DillonHall]

You are making zero sense. You keep saying he needed to mature, but how was he going to change in his senior year from what he had become through his first three seasons? You really think him staying one more year would have completely changed his attitude and the person that he is? Jimmy sealed his fate in that regard the day he stepped foot onto the College Football Hall of Fame to announce his commitment to us. People had their opinions on him, and one more season wasn't going to change that.

You can have your own views on Clausen's career at Notre Dame and whether he lived up to the hype, because that's all fine and subjective, but you're flat out wrong if you are seriously trying to say that one more season under a completely different head coach with a completely different scheme around him would have benefitted his career in any way, especially when that offense is a pass - oriented spread that generally isn't well received by scouts and experts at the professional level. It's laughable that you're even trying to suggest this.

Agree, given the circumstances mentioned here, it was the right move for Jimmy to leave for the NFL.

Hindsight is 20/20

 

[BurningRiver]

Apologies if this has been discussed, but is there any truth to the rumor that Clausen was not punched in a bar in SB as was reported, but rather by an upset teammate after he allegedly said "I can't wait to go to the NFL" after the UConn loss? I heard this from a friend a few months ago and wondered if that could be true.

But on the subject, I never really liked Jimmy from the second he made his flashy announcement at the HoF. I loved watching him play, especially during 2009, but I always questioned his maturity and attitude. I know his teammates backed him up when people questioned his leadership and locker room presence, but that's what teammates are supposed to do, right? I hope I'm wrong, but he just never seemed like a "team guy." Did you guys ever notice that after a TD was scored he would usually have to find guys to celebrate with, rather than guys going to him?

Also, his mullet at the beginning of '08 was a disgrace.

 

[Mirer3Powlus]

So you think that players don't benefit (mentally) from staying for their senior season? And I'm the one that is not making sense........

It absolutely helps to have one more year under your belt. Especially a guy with his makeup. Might've humbled him to have to earn his spot under a new regime. I think it would've made all the difference in the world. And who's to say that Kelly wouldn't have been beneficial to Jimmy??? Yeah, new system, but I'm sure they would've found ways to make it work. Besides he dropped to the second round anyway, even with the system he was in.

Laugh all you want.

I'm not going to laugh; I'll just pity you. I can tell that you're the kind of Domer who sits on his couch after Jimmy got done passing for fives scores and 340 yards against Stanford while making throws that Brady Quinn could never even dream of completing, screaming at the television and cursing the kid's name for not throwing six touchdowns instead. It must suck to be you.

Don't even dare blame Clausen for that loss against Stanford. Maybe the defense should have some way to stop Toby Gerhart while their quarterback played a near perfect game.

 

[irishpat183]

I'm not going to laugh; I'll just pity you. I can tell that you're the kind of Domer who sits on his couch after Jimmy got done passing for fives scores and 340 yards against Stanford while making throws that Brady Quinn could never even dream of completing, screaming at the television and cursing the kid's name for not throwing six touchdowns instead. It must suck to be you.

Don't even dare blame Clausen for that loss against Stanford. Maybe the defense should have some way to stop Toby Gerhart while their quarterback played a near perfect game.

How would you know what kind of domer I am? Because I don't think that Jimmy Clausen was nearly as good as advertised? Or because I think he left too early when it's obvious that he wasn't mature enough for the NFL?? That makes me pathetic?

And who brought up the Stanford game???......I didn't. Now you're picking and choosing. You want me to start throwing out games in which Jimmy played poorly?? Cause there are a few. And Quinn, was better than advertised/expected at his time at ND. Which is far more impressive than some 5 star kid like Clausen strolling on campus into the starting job. I have a lot more respect for Quinn

And it doesn't "suck to be me". Because I disagree with you about Jimmy Clausen? Are you 12 years old? It's actually fantastic to be me. I'm 29 years old, own my own small business, have a great family, and house on the golf course. What more could you ask for?

Take off the "Jimmy is my hero" tee-shirt for 5 mins. I'm simply giving my perspective. If you want to call names, don't respond to my comments.

 

[Kingbish01]

Apologies if this has been discussed, but is there any truth to the rumor that Clausen was not punched in a bar in SB as was reported, but rather by an upset teammate after he allegedly said "I can't wait to go to the NFL" after the UConn loss? I heard this from a friend a few months ago and wondered if that could be true.

But on the subject, I never really liked Jimmy from the second he made his flashy announcement at the HoF. I loved watching him play, especially during 2009, but I always questioned his maturity and attitude. I know his teammates backed him up when people questioned his leadership and locker room presence, but that's what teammates are supposed to do, right? I hope I'm wrong, but he just never seemed like a "team guy." Did you guys ever notice that after a TD was scored he would usually have to find guys to celebrate with, rather than guys going to him?

Also, his mullet at the beginning of '08 was a disgrace.

I heard that too, but Terry Tate confirmed that it was not true a few months back when I asked.

 

[irishpat183]

I heard that too, but Terry Tate confirmed that it was not true a few months back when I asked.

I heard that same thing. How did Terry Tate confirm it?(does he have a source or something) Just wondering.

 

[Kingbish01]

LOL...I can't believe Jimmy's mom used two other ND qb's as her screen name!