Word Question

[IrishinSyria]

Ok, this has been bothering me all day. A little background first; I was talking with a friend who recently converted to Islam (actually, she was always kind of Muslim, but now she's hijabed up and praying 5 times a day) which is cool. As she was explaining it to me though, she started talking about how, examining her life, it felt like more than a coincidence; every step she had taken, every event in her life had lead her to this point.

Once again, cool. But this reminded me of one explanation for why all the rules of physics work to create the perfect conditions for life: because if they didn't, life wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be around to observe the non-conducive set of rules. So my question is this: does anybody know what that type of explanation is called?

 

[jason_h537]

uhhh singularity?

 

[Irish Insanity]

sorry I have not a clue. But while working today I was approached by someone who asked how I was doing. My response was 'well its Thursday, would be better if it was Friday.' He responded by telling me that one day I will look back a wonder where all my days have gone and conclude that maybe I shouldn't have wished all my days away like I was doing today. And actually he was right. So from now on I shall not wish my days away, but rather spend each day cellebrating the life/time I have.

 

[BGIF]

... So from now on I shall not wish my days away, but rather spend each day cellebrating the life/time I have.

... typing on an internet message board.

 

[Irish Insanity]

well hell yes! To fit more into my day I multitask. Surf the net while I drop the kids off at the pool.

 

[ACamp1900]

Intelligent Design falls under what you are talking about

 

[BGIF]

... , she started talking about how, examining her life, it felt like more than a coincidence; every step she had taken, every event in her life had lead her to this point.

... So my question is this: does anybody know what that type of explanation is called?

Qadar.

Divine Destiny.

Preordainment.

Predestination.

"So it was written"


I'm not very knowledgeable about the Muslim faith but have had that explained to me.

Similar to a someone stating "God called me to my ministry," or "... to become a doctor and save lives ..." etc. It's a powerful concept/belief in many religions.

 

[ACamp1900]

Qadar.

Divine Destiny.

Preordainment.

Predestination.

"So it was written"


I'm not very knowledgeable about the Muslim faith but have had that explained to me.

Similar to a someone stating "God called me to my ministry," or "... to become a doctor and save lives ..." etc. It's a powerful concept/belief in many religions.

Devine Providence can be added to that I suppose...

 

[BGIF]

Intelligent Design falls under what you are talking about

No.

Intelliigent Design is late 20th century (1990's) spin to get around Tennessee v. Scopes, The Butler Act being declared unconstitutional, MacLean v. Arkansas, Edwards v. Aguillard, etc, etc, etc. which overturned the teaching of doctrine in public schools. Think not. Try taking a Catholic or Jewish or Muslim "bible" into a public school. Only King James need apply.

The Santorum Amendment in No Child Left Behind is a measure to placate those who want religion taught in public schools.

 

[BGIF]

...
Once again, cool. But this reminded me of one explanation for why all the rules of physics work to create the perfect conditions for life: because if they didn't, life wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be around to observe the non-conducive set of rules. So my question is this: does anybody know what that type of explanation is called?

This paragraph brings to mind Newton's Universe Theory which explained the universe as a clock God created but runs on the Laws of Physics.

There are probably other terms that fit your description but that's one I've come across over the years.


Fascinating topic.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

well hell yes! To fit more into my day I multitask. Surf the net while I drop the kids off at the pool.

You can get on the net while taking the Browns to the Super Bowl?

 

[IrishinSyria]

Determinism or Predestination are probably the closest terms to what I'm talking about, but neither feels quite right.

Both of them refer to current or future events being determined by past events. What I'm thinking of is past events being explained by current reality. (i.e. it was this, because if it wasn't, now wouldn't be.)

Thanks for the replies btw. Weird topic for a football message board.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Ok, this has been bothering me all day. A little background first; I was talking with a friend who recently converted to Islam (actually, she was always kind of Muslim, but now she's hijabed up and praying 5 times a day) which is cool. As she was explaining it to me though, she started talking about how, examining her life, it felt like more than a coincidence; every step she had taken, every event in her life had lead her to this point.

Once again, cool. But this reminded me of one explanation for why all the rules of physics work to create the perfect conditions for life: because if they didn't, life wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be around to observe the non-conducive set of rules. So my question is this: does anybody know what that type of explanation is called?

Could the word you are looking for be "Epiphany?" Sounds like either a life changing event, or some brainwashing. My question about what I highlighted in your post is: Do YOU know what are asking? Who said "ALL rules of physics work to create the perfect conditions for life: because if they didn't, life wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be around to observe the non-conducive set of rules?" Methinks the premise could sound backwards. Doesn't physics try to explain or understand before it tries to create? I have no clue buddy. Just talking football with you...

I like MIrish's posts. Reminds me of a time I lived near my homeblood. My father called me up one random Tuesday and said "Hey, Come on over. We're grilling some steaks." I asked, "What's the occasion?" He said, "Umm.. Tuesday."

 

[IrishinSyria]

Could the word you are looking for be "Epiphany?" Sounds like either a life changing event, or some brainwashing.

Well for her, yes. Epiphany, life changing event and brainwashing are all excellent terms to describe this event.

My question about what I highlighted in your post is: Do YOU know what are asking?

I do, but not well enough to express it clearly.

Who said "ALL rules of physics work to create the perfect conditions for life: because if they didn't, life wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be around to observe the non-conducive set of rules?" Methinks the premise could sound backwards. Doesn't physics try to explain or understand before it tries to create? I have no clue buddy. Just talking football with you...

Punt? Just kidding... let me give this another crack. How do you explain the fact that Earth, the only life bearing planet that we know of, is just the right distance from the sun to support life? Is it some huge coincidence? Is it intelligently laid out? Does it have something to do with physics? Yes, maybe and yes, but there's also a more simple (and lazy) answer: if Earth were not in the perfect orbit, then we would not be around to ask why not. It's this kind of "logic" that I'm trying to remember the name for.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

A Quark in the system.

Quark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[tankjeep]

fate

 

[NankerPhelge]

The infinite love of God for us?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

The infinite love of God for us?

Oh sweet Diaco, I hope not. If the recent past is an example of God's love and plan for me, I'm counter planning an epiphany and going atheist.

No. Worse. I'm going Tweener.

 

[TerryTate]

Oh sweet Diaco, I hope not. If the recent past is an example of God's love and plan for me, I'm counter planning an epiphany and going atheist.

No. Worse. I'm going Tweener.

Join the dark side...

 

[TDHeysus]

What I'm thinking of is past events being explained by current reality.

I think depending on your own philosophy, it falls under fate or destiny.

Could the word you are looking for be "Epiphany?" Sounds like either a life changing event, or some brainwashing."

i dont associate Epiphany with brainwashing. For me an Epiphany happens when you get a moment of clarity over a subject or subject(s) that you have long been associated with.

For me, the 'moment of clarity' with regards to an epiphany usually has a positive aspect to it.

I played 'rock-style' drums from 1986-2007, until my drum epiphany happen after watching 80year old Joe Morello play. I realized when/if I make it to 80, I wont be playing rock music, it will most likely be jazz or some type of varation of fusion. Since that day my whole drumming life has turned in a drastically different, but positive direction towards jazz/fusion and away from rock.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I think depending on your own philosophy, it falls under fate or destiny.



i dont associate Epiphany with brainwashing. For me an Epiphany happens when you get a moment of clarity over a subject or subject(s) that you have long been associated with.

For me, the 'moment of clarity' with regards to an epiphany usually has a positive aspect to it.

I played 'rock-style' drums from 1986-2007, until my drum epiphany happen after watching 80year old Joe Morello play. I realized when/if I make it to 80, I wont be playing rock music, it will most likely be jazz or some type of varation of fusion. Since that day my whole drumming life has turned in a drastically different, but positive direction towards jazz/fusion and away from rock.

That's why I stuck in the word "or." "Or" is a "conjunction" used to connect words, phrases, or clauses representing alternatives.

You described an "epiphany."

I think. I don't know. I just epiphanied on my lawn.

 

[dshans]

My eyebrows hurt from thinking about this. Ibuprofen hasn't helped. A mental review of all I've read, heard or hypothesized hasn't provided an answer.

I know it's a serious question and I don't mean to be (too?) flippant, but I'll go with "Magic" until I get bowled over by an epiphany.

 

[TDHeysus]

That's why I stuck in the word "or." "Or" is a "conjunction" used to connect words, phrases, or clauses representing alternatives.

You described an "epiphany."

I think. I don't know. I just epiphanied on my lawn.

Yea, i just misread what you typed. I understand what you were saying (now)

 

[ACamp1900]

No.

Intelliigent Design is late 20th century (1990's) spin to get around Tennessee v. Scopes, The Butler Act being declared unconstitutional, MacLean v. Arkansas, Edwards v. Aguillard, etc, etc, etc. which overturned the teaching of doctrine in public schools. Think not. Try taking a Catholic or Jewish or Muslim "bible" into a public school. Only King James need apply.

The Santorum Amendment in No Child Left Behind is a measure to placate those who want religion taught in public schools.

what are you talking about???... the idea of intelligent design, no matter where it came from, can fit int what the TC talked about... and the theories behind it have been pondered for thousands of years...

so...


YES.


That's like saying Newton's theory of "Universal Gravitation" is not relevant to a discussion on why things fall over because when he sat under the tree all he wanted was a stupid apple.

NCLB has nothing to do with anything excpet making my life hard.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I think my "backstory" to the question probably threw people off the scent. For now I'm going with "reverse-determinism" but I know 100% for sure that that's not what I was going for.

The puzzle looks easy when it's solved.

 

[NankerPhelge]

I have thought about his all day, and have come to the conclusion that any serious discussion I could offer about this would probably not be appropriate for the message board. But, in short, I see what you are describing as very similar to the theological belief (especially from the Catholic viewpoint) that all exists according to God's plan, and that we, as imperfect beings (the created, not the Creator) are simply not equipped to know the complete answer. For example, something that I perceive as horrible in the present moment might, ultimately, contribute to God's plan. Like if I develop terminal cancer and die a slow, horrible, painful death, but through that I, and more importantly my children, are brought to a stronger faith and ultimate union with God, which is the ultimate good and purpose of our existence, then that is ultimately a good thing. I know that's not all that clear, but it's the best I can do here in a short amount of space.

Also, the situation you describe strikes me as being extremely similar to one of the common arguments for "proving" the existence of God through the reason. You know, if you find yourself on a desert island and have never seen a human being, and one day you stumble upon a beautiful, working, watch on the beach, what is the more reasonable conclusion? That this precise instrument just randomly "happened?" Or that something so beautiful and so precise had to be created by someone with the intelligence and means to do that. And then, extrapolate that to all creation that we can perceive. I think that is called the teleological argument for the existence of God, but I am not sure at the moment.

I know, short shrift to such a deep and provocative question. Hope I contributed something worthwhile, anyway.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I have thought about his all day, and have come to the conclusion that any serious discussion I could offer about this would probably not be appropriate for the message board. But, in short, I see what you are describing as very similar to the theological belief (especially from the Catholic viewpoint) that all exists according to God's plan, and that we, as imperfect beings (the created, not the Creator) are simply not equipped to know the complete answer. For example, something that I perceive as horrible in the present moment might, ultimately, contribute to God's plan. Like if I develop terminal cancer and die a slow, horrible, painful death, but through that I, and more importantly my children, are brought to a stronger faith and ultimate union with God, which is the ultimate good and purpose of our existence, then that is ultimately a good thing. I know that's not all that clear, but it's the best I can do here in a short amount of space.

Also, the situation you describe strikes me as being extremely similar to one of the common arguments for "proving" the existence of God through the reason. You know, if you find yourself on a desert island and have never seen a human being, and one day you stumble upon a beautiful, working, watch on the beach, what is the more reasonable conclusion? That this precise instrument just randomly "happened?" Or that something so beautiful and so precise had to be created by someone with the intelligence and means to do that. And then, extrapolate that to all creation that we can perceive. I think that is called the teleological argument for the existence of God, but I am not sure at the moment.

I know, short shrift to such a deep and provocative question. Hope I contributed something worthwhile, anyway.

You're definitely on the right track. It is, in fact, a response to the same set of facts you describe. However, and this is what I have done a poor job communicating, it comes to a radically different conclusion than the one you describe.

Basically, it is a given that there is an almost infinite series of low-probability events/laws that act as prerequisites for life.

One way to explain it is god: everything is so complex that there must be a great organizer who has set everything in motion.

Another way to explain it is what I'm looking for: Past events define the current question. It may seem phenomenal to us that things worked out exactly how they did, but it only seems that way because that's what happened. If gravity worked a little differently for example, and a race of nitrogen-breathing creatures evolved on Mercury, they would marvel at how everything worked out exactly as needed for them to exist. Or, alternatively, the question would never be asked because things didn't work out.

To scale the question back to the human scale, say you're walking on a road. The road forks several times, and each time you go down a random direction. When you get to your destination, you will look back on your journey and think: wow, what are the odds that I would end up here? I had to take exactly the right path. However, say you took a different turn. You would end up at a different destination, yet you would have a similar thought: what are the odds? I had to take exactly the right turns to get here. And so on. So while there may only be a small probability of you ending up at any specific destination, there is a much larger probability of you ending up at a destination (in this case, 100%).

 

[NankerPhelge]

Tough question. I've got some research to do, and then I'll make it a point to respond. Will be after February 18th. May not have a definitive answer, but sure I will have some new ideas.

 

[BeauBenken]

Sounds to me like the word you may be looking for is luck or chance...if you take God out of the equation and ask how did we end up like this, here, capable of living and all that stuff...it'd be by chance