'11 TX ATH Cam McDaniel (Signed Notre Dame LOI)

[GEORGIA DOMER]

toby geirhart three star out of high school some white boys slip through the cracks

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Please explain to me why you think Savon is so much better than Cam or how they are not even close. I think the repeatedly seeing comments like that are very irritating. If someone would tell me that we just signed the fastest shuttle time running back in high school history I would not make comments like that, considering how he performed at his level of competition as well.

As far as Cam's level of production at the highest level of football in Texas, I mean what he did was impressive, but Coppell is year in and year out one of the best programs in the country. At some point aren't the players a product of the system?

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

or is the system is a product of the players that go thru it?

 

[rtrn2glory]

prolly a little bit of both.

 

[IlovethehireofCoachKelly]

Alright guys... time for some clarity:

Savon Huggins, Amir Carlisle and Cam McDaniel all have very different games. Arguing who is "better" is completely asinine... and it's even more crazy to do so before they have ever stepped on the college practice field.

What I will say in defense of Cam is that white RBs are both rare and consistently underrated by recruiting services when you consider measureables and stats. No prospect is ever a slam dunk, but Cam McDaniel has the measureables, stats and game film to be at least a low 4*... but somehow on rivals he isn't even one of the 55 ranked RBs. To illustrate my point, not one of the ranked RBs on rivals is white... but BK chose to offer a guy like Cam over a guy like Remound. Remound was a 4* (#17) from Indiana and considered a heavy Notre Dame lean but never got an offer despite visiting many times and is on his way west to Stanford. Obviously, there is something there that the coaches like.

Does Cam have the same potential as Savon to be an every down feature back? No, not really. But they both have potential to be very effective contributors at the next level and I would be shocked if Cam does not have a big play or two before his time in South Bend is done.

Explain in detail!!

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Explain in detail!!

Explain in detail why him having the "fastest shuttle time in high school football history" is why he is better than Huggins and why he would be a better every down back? By the way that fastest time ever that everyone keeps mentioning is not even the one listed on the recruiting sites...odd.

Someone better tell BK there is no need to move Theo back to RB because we got McDaniel. The fastest shuttle time ever!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I think people are sleeping on Cam. Seems like he is the exact type that could exceed his "ranking". Whether he is better than Savon at this point, I doubt that many scouts could be that wrong. But what they are at this point is not really important. I wouldn't be surprised if Cam is one of those "fan favorite" types and has a pretty good college career by the time it is all said and done.

Okay, okay. I hate to get into this debate. But I just can't stop myself . . .

There is a wide receiver at the University of Toledo, as a sophomore that made All MAC special teams as a returner, Eric Page. Eric is a case in point. He is an incredibly gifted athlete with a couple of issues. (No one knows how fast or strong he is.)

Eric made second-team all state quarterback, Division I in Ohio as a junior. Our own Dan McCarthy was the first-team selection. Eric had a couple of problems as a high school athlete. I was just talking to his former high school head coach. Eric was a kid who was an upper 4.3 or better forty as a fifteen-year-old. But he was emotionally immature, and let the schoolwork slide. That with the fact that he was playing out of position, made him unappealing as a recruit, to the services. You have commercial entities that come in to “rate” players, and this is what programs see when they go fishing. Because he didn’t have more size and a better classroom track record, everyone saw him as a risky proposition. This coach, friend of mine shared with me some of what the different services had to say.

Because this kid was in the 5’9” to 5’11” range and since he was at the quarterback position and no one took the time to evaluate his hands, or route running ability, Toledo got an All-MAC performer, who will probably finish with all of the schools reception records, as a gift. And Eric will be drafted, and probably have a decent pro career. It is not just me that says so. Ricky Upchurch, the last great ballplayer out of Springfield High School (Holland, Oh) agrees. He had a fair career with Denver, himself.

So the bottom line is, here you have a freakish good athlete, that because he appears to be a risk, the recruiting services “black ball” to promote their own more favored choices, and to keep their reputations safe. Thank God there are programs like Kelly’s that don’t accept the spoon-fed drivel of the recruiting services, that go out and find their own players!

 

[IrishLax]

Explain in detail!!

I need to explain in detail why someone who is shifty runner with great balance and versatility listed at 5'11" 192 with good but not elite speed would not be in a situational timeshare with other running backs who are stronger and/or faster? What part is not plainly obvious? Sigh.. here goes...

Savon is the kind of guy who, if he reaches his potential, could end up being an NFL type player. Good speed, size, power combined with lateral quickness, balance and vision means he has no real weaknesses. Cam is smaller, hypothetically slower (because all we have are junk 40 times), weaker with probably better balance, agility and intangibles. Cam is your prototypical 3rd down or "flex" back who could be a great fit in our offense but Savon is the kind of guy who can be effective in nearly any situation in any kind of offense. The end.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Okay, okay. I hate to get into this debate. But I just can't stop myself . . .

There is a wide receiver at the University of Toledo, as a sophomore that made All MAC special teams as a returner, Eric Page. Eric is a case in point. He is an incredibly gifted athlete with a couple of issues. (No one knows how fast or strong he is.)

Eric made second-team all state quarterback, Division I in Ohio as a junior. Our own Dan McCarthy was the first-team selection. Eric had a couple of problems as a high school athlete. I was just talking to his former high school head coach. Eric was a kid who was an upper 4.3 or better forty as a fifteen-year-old. But he was emotionally immature, and let the schoolwork slide. That with the fact that he was playing out of position, made him unappealing as a recruit, to the services. You have commercial entities that come in to “rate” players, and this is what programs see when they go fishing. Because he didn’t have more size and a better classroom track record, everyone saw him as a risky proposition. This coach, friend of mine shared with me some of what the different services had to say.

Because this kid was in the 5’9” to 5’11” range and since he was at the quarterback position and no one took the time to evaluate his hands, or route running ability, Toledo got an All-MAC performer, who will probably finish with all of the schools reception records, as a gift. And Eric will be drafted, and probably have a decent pro career. It is not just me that says so. Ricky Upchurch, the last great ballplayer out of Springfield High School (Holland, Oh) agrees. He had a fair career with Denver, himself.

So the bottom line is, here you have a freakish good athlete, that because he appears to be a risk, the recruiting services “black ball” to promote their own more favored choices, and to keep their reputations safe. Thank God there are programs like Kelly’s that don’t accept the spoon-fed drivel of the recruiting services, that go out and find their own players!

I don't understand, is Cam McDaniel related to Eric Page? Excuse the sarcasm, but I do get what you are saying. The scouts have their own biases and agendas and so on and so forth.
I want to again be clear that I believe Cam was a great pick up from the staff. He is a guy that has the potential to out perform his rankings. I just hate getting into these typical arguements about how a current ND committ is better than a guy committed at a rival school or that we are fading with (i.e. Savon). Everyone was all over him until we started telling ourselves that he was going to Rutgers.

 

[rtrn2glory]

he will get a shot in the league, but if he's 5'9" I'm 6'10". Toledo coaches have said that he times in the 4.5 range in the 40, but he is explosive and will be a huge asset for Toledo in the return game for the next two years, just like he was this year. He reminds me of the Holliday kid from LSU. This alone will get him looks at the next level.

 

[IrishLax]

Oh, and lastly one of the reasons I'm high on Cam is that I trust BK's evaluation of talent a lot more than any recruiting service. See: all of the 2 and 3 star players he turned into pros and Cinci. If he thinks someone can play and offers them but does not offer a guy like Remound Wright... that tells me Cam fits with what he wants to do.

With that being said, to everyone who cannot see that Savon is a better EDB **prospect** than Cam... you are kidding yourself. They may both go on to have great careers but Savon, at this point in time, projects much better at the D1 level for that role.

 

[IlovethehireofCoachKelly]

Explain in detail why him having the "fastest shuttle time in high school football history" is why he is better than Huggins and why he would be a better every down back? By the way that fastest time ever that everyone keeps mentioning is not even the one listed on the recruiting sites...odd.

Someone better tell BK there is no need to move Theo back to RB because we got McDaniel. The fastest shuttle time ever!

I never indicated Cam was better. You indicated that Savon and him were not even close and Cam can not be an every down back. I just wanted an explaination for such a biased remark. So far you are running in cirles with no point.

 

[ND101]

Cam McDaniel

Cam McDaniel

His name just sounds like a winner kind of like Colt Mccoy or Tim Tebow. When I hear or read his name I just get the feeling he must be a stud.

 

[IlovethehireofCoachKelly]

I need to explain in detail why someone who is shifty runner with great balance and versatility listed at 5'11" 192 with good but not elite speed would not be in a situational timeshare with other running backs who are stronger and/or faster? What part is not plainly obvious? Sigh.. here goes...

Savon is the kind of guy who, if he reaches his potential, could end up being an NFL type player. Good speed, size, power combined with lateral quickness, balance and vision means he has no real weaknesses. Cam is smaller, hypothetically slower (because all we have are junk 40 times), weaker with probably better balance, agility and intangibles. Cam is your prototypical 3rd down or "flex" back who could be a great fit in our offense but Savon is the kind of guy who can be effective in nearly any situation in any kind of offense. The end.

This still really explains nothing other than your point of view.

 

[IrishLax]

This still really explains nothing other than your point of view.

Neg reps. You're being exceedingly annoying now. I gave you specific attributes and explained why one guy projects as a prototypical 3rd down back and why one projects as a more complete back. If you aren't going to clearly state specific points that you disagree with and/or present a counter argument to support your point of view then don't bother posting.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I never indicated Cam was better. You indicated that Savon and him were not even close and Cam can not be an every down back. I just wanted an explaination for such a biased remark. So far you are running in cirles with no point.

I was merely asking you to state your point because you were clearly taking the back seat and were taking the antagonist approach. Sorry, you insinuated it then while not clearly articulating it, is that better? I think you need to go kick rocks at this point.

 

[JughedJones]

Neg reps. You're being exceedingly annoying now. I gave you specific attributes and explained why one guy projects as a prototypical 3rd down back and why one projects as a more complete back. If you aren't going to clearly state specific points that you disagree with and/or present a counter argument to support your point of view then don't bother posting.

And.....Boom goes the dynamite.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

This still really explains nothing other than your point of view.

Isn't that what everyone posts on message boards? As far as I know you nor anyone else on this board is an expert on recruiting, we all just post our thoughts and ideas and defend them. I will come to you next time for advice.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I'm not a scout, and I am not saying McDaniel is better than Huggins or anyone else. But I will say that from watching his film I was really impressed with his shiftiness and his field vision, and pleasantly surprised with his strength. When he starts playing against better competition in college - guys who are faster, stronger and better coached - he may not break as many big plays or be quite as difficult to tackle, but I think some of that can translate to the next level. He also seemed to have pretty good hands as a receiver out of the backfield. Cam probably will not be a Heisman winner, but I think it would be a mistake to write him off in terms of being someone that can be dynamic with the ball in his hands. I think he and Golson are two recruits that could be big producers in BK's offense in a couple of years that people aren't excited enough about. Hopefully I'm not attaching my wagon to the wrong horse, here, but I like the kid.

 

[gspjeb]

amazing.....and we have never seen the guy perform in a ND uniform. I am really excited about Cam and think he has a great upside. He was in arguably one of the toughest high school programs in the nation....excelled there....has a better 40 time.....off the charts shuttle time.....is a shifty runner etc etc. I think we should be thanking our luckys stars we have him and hope he doesnt read this board.

Huggins would be a great get.....but it is anybodys guess who will be better in college. Statistically, Cam has better competition and times. Not saying Huggins won't be great and I would like to have him but I think we will be just fine without him.

Niklas....now that would be nice

 

[ab2cmiller]

It's clear that Cam is a quality recruit and could end up being a good running back or slot receiver or wherever else Kelly would want him to play. Yes, he may be underrated, but to me it is clear that Kelly thinks a lot more of Huggins as a running back.

Kelly extended an offer to Huggins back in Feb of last year and has hotly pursued him for quite some time. Cam was extended an offer only after Hayes decommitted back at the end of November.

Here is a post from Huggins thread:

I have a little bit of info from the South Bend Tribune about Huggins:

All the right moves?


Long before sophomore running back Cierre Wood showed off some crowd-awing moves Saturday on his way to a career-high 94-yard rushing day and his first collegiate touchdown, Kelly showed off a pretty smooth move of his own.

The ND coach cut sharply to the right after running out of the Notre Dame Stadium tunnel and ran straight for elite running back prospect Savon Huggins on the Irish sideline. Kelly greeted him with a combo handshake/hug,

Huggins, a 6-foot, 190-pounder from St. Peter's Prep in Jersey City, N.J., and his family were on an official visit to Notre Dame

I don't know how many recruits Kelly made a special effort to go up to immediately after running out of the tunnel, but I'm guessing there are very few.

I think it's clear the Kelly thinks Huggins is an elite talent. Please don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have Cam but as it pertains to RB evaluation, I'll rely on Kelly. All of which points to Kelly believing that Huggins is the better RB prospect.

 

[koonja]

It's clear that Cam is a quality recruit and could end up being a good running back or slot receiver or wherever else Kelly would want him to play. Yes, he may be underrated, but to me it is clear that Kelly thinks a lot more of Huggins as a running back.

Kelly extended an offer to Huggins back in Feb of last year and has hotly pursued him for quite some time. Cam was extended an offer only after Hayes decommitted back at the end of November.

Here is a post from Huggins thread:



I don't know how many recruits Kelly made a special effort to go up to immediately after running out of the tunnel, but I'm guessing there are very few.

I think it's clear the Kelly thinks Huggins is an elite talent. Please don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have Cam but as it pertains to RB evaluation, I'll rely on Kelly. All of which points to Kelly believing that Huggins is the better RB prospect.

If we could choose one or the other, I'd hope it was a unanimous Savon... I understand people want to speculate about 'RKG', but guess what? Savon is rated higher by experts, and BK wants him bad. So, I'll be happy with the RB positiong regardless, but if I had to choose, it'd be Savon in a landslide.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I'm sure there are people out there somewhere who flat-out love Cam and really do think he is better than Huggins. But I don't think that someone talking up Cam or saying they think he can be a good player should be taken as a knock on Huggins. I am one who thinks Cam will be better than expected by the recruiting services, but I would very much like to get Huggins, too. I'm not saying Cam is better than Savon, just that I like Cam.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

amazing.....and we have never seen the guy perform in a ND uniform. I am really excited about Cam and think he has a great upside. He was in arguably one of the toughest high school programs in the nation....excelled there....has a better 40 time.....off the charts shuttle time.....is a shifty runner etc etc. I think we should be thanking our luckys stars we have him and hope he doesnt read this board.

Huggins would be a great get.....but it is anybodys guess who will be better in college. Statistically, Cam has better competition and times. Not saying Huggins won't be great and I would like to have him but I think we will be just fine without him.

Niklas....now that would be nice

I am sorry but why should we be hoping that he doesn't read this board. Did we say something bad? Are you afraid his feelings would be hurt? Do you think recruits value my or your opinion?

 

[MirageSmack]

I love me some Cam.

 

[IlovethehireofCoachKelly]

Neg reps. You're being exceedingly annoying now. I gave you specific attributes and explained why one guy projects as a prototypical 3rd down back and why one projects as a more complete back. If you aren't going to clearly state specific points that you disagree with and/or present a counter argument to support your point of view then don't bother posting.

You are absolutely right about your observations, well at least we all know what is going to happen and the fact that we are only going to see Cam on third downs and Savon is going pro. Irishlax, you and that other guy who is still running in circles try to explain why they are not even close, are a joke if you get upset about this. But since you already knew what was going to happen with both players and their future in football looks like I'm the joke. I was just getting annoyed constantly reading people predicting what is gonna happen. You don't have any clue what is going to happen and your guess is as good as any other person who spends all on here acting like an analysis. If both player have a great career in highschool football, but one is both faster and quicker than the other. I just can not see how or why you get your predictions other than thier star rankings. I guess maybe your a star fanatic. If cam was five stars, is he still just going to be used as the flex back on third downs?

 

[IlovethehireofCoachKelly]

I am sorry but why should we be hoping that he doesn't read this board. Did we say something bad? Are you afraid his feelings would be hurt? Do you think recruits value my our your opinion?

We dont value yours...you have explained nothing.

 

[JughedJones]

You are absolutely right about your observations, well at least we all know what is going to happen and the fact that we are only going to see Cam on third downs and Savon is going pro. Irishlax, you and that other guy who is still running in circles try to explain why they are not even close, are a joke if you get upset about this. But since you already knew what was going to happen with both players and their future in football looks like I'm the joke. I was just getting annoyed constantly reading people predicting what is gonna happen. You don't have any clue what is going to happen and your guess is as good as any other person who spends all on here acting like an analysis. If both player have a great career in highschool football, but one is both faster and quicker than the other. I just can not see how or why you get your predictions other than thier star rankings. I guess maybe your a star fanatic. If cam was five stars, is he still just going to be used as the flex back on third downs?

My girlfriend always gets on me for acting like an analysis....but seriously folks.....


Why are you acting like a tool dude? Are you saying that no one is allowed to state their opinions on a message board unless it's backed with incontrovertible facts? If that's the case this place would get pretty boring real fast.

And stop acting like a tool.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

We dont value yours...you have explained nothing.

I am cool with that. Just one question though, why do scouts even exist? If it was as easy as putting everyones 40 times and shuttle times on a piece of paper we wouldn't need them. I already mentioned before that my opinion as to why Cam had such impressive stats in hs was that I feel he is a product of a system. Why would Texas or A&M or TT let this kid out of the state if they didn't have reservations about his game? Are you suggesting that all college programs are star struck? I believe Huggins is stronger and more explosive than Cam is. He is a better fit as an every down back because he has a more traditional running style and can take the every down punishment. Traditionally guys with Cam's build and frame have not been able to take the hits as an every down back. I know there are exceptions to the rule, but these scouts and analysts have access to data we don't have. Cam is shifty and quick but I believe he needs space to get down the field, which is probably one of the reason IrishLax suggested he would be a great situational player. You might argue that Cam is a better fit for BK's offense, but I don't really think you can argue that Cam is a better RUNNING BACK than Huggins. Don't scouts factor in the level of competition when they scout these kids? Essentially you are saying that scouts don't know ish and that if the kid puts up yards and runs a great shuttle or 40 no one should question his ability at the next level. At this point you are reminding me of that annoying little kid that asks "why?" to everything you try to say to them. Is this a racial thing because your posts are beginning to reek of it?

 

[IrishLax]

You are absolutely right about your observations, well at least we all know what is going to happen and the fact that we are only going to see Cam on third downs and Savon is going pro. Irishlax, you and that other guy who is still running in circles try to explain why they are not even close, are a joke if you get upset about this. But since you already knew what was going to happen with both players and their future in football looks like I'm the joke. I was just getting annoyed constantly reading people predicting what is gonna happen. You don't have any clue what is going to happen and your guess is as good as any other person who spends all on here acting like an analysis. If both player have a great career in highschool football, but one is both faster and quicker than the other. I just can not see how or why you get your predictions other than thier star rankings. I guess maybe your a star fanatic. If cam was five stars, is he still just going to be used as the flex back on third downs?

This whole post just proves you basically did not read anything I said or lack the reading comprehension to digest my analysis. In response to the two parts I've bolded, here are some quotes from my posts:

"in defense of Cam is that white RBs are both rare and consistently underrated by recruiting services when you consider measureables and stats. No prospect is ever a slam dunk, but Cam McDaniel has the measureables, stats and game film to be at least a low 4*"

"BK chose to offer a guy like Cam over a guy like Remound. Remound was a 4* (#17) from Indiana and considered a heavy Notre Dame lean but never got an offer despite visiting many times and is on his way west to Stanford. Obviously, there is something there that the coaches like"

"Does Cam have the same potential as Savon to be an every down feature back? No, not really. But they both have potential to be very effective contributors at the next level"

"lastly one of the reasons I'm high on Cam is that I trust BK's evaluation of talent a lot more than any recruiting service. See: all of the 2 and 3 star players he turned into pros and Cinci. If he thinks someone can play and offers them but does not offer a guy like Remound Wright... that tells me Cam fits with what he wants to do"

"to everyone who cannot see that Savon is a better Every Down Back **prospect** than Cam... you are kidding yourself. They may both go on to have great careers but Savon, at this point in time, projects much better at the D1 level for that role"

I clearly am NOT getting my 'predictions' from star rankings as I explicitly state that I don't feel the star rankings are a good indicator. In fact I have a whole post dedicated to how I think stars are flawed. Second, the words you try to put in my mouth are laughable. I clearly have expressed the opinion that they both have oodles of potential and no one knows what will happen BUT that Cam *projects* as a very good 3rd down/flex back and that Savon *projects* better as an EDB because of the attributes I've listed. Think Brandon Jackson for the Packers who is a good pass catcher and is pretty quick and shifty but who did not play all that well in the every down back role after Ryan Grant went down this year. Anyways, this is my last post on this matter, it is getting tiresome. Can't wait to look back on this thread in a couple years.