Let's Take the Fake Out of College Football

[PJWhitfield]

OK, Notre Dame does it right, a 96 graduation rate for football players. Only 17 teams in the FBS schools score 80 or better. ... What if N.D. announced that it would no longer put a team on its schedule unless it had a graduation rate of 80 or better? Talk about shaking the thunder down from the sky. Hey, if only 57 percent (Auburn) of your players graduate, are you really a COLLEGE team? How about 55 percent (Alabama), 52 percent (Ohio State), 51 percent (Michigan State), 50 percent (Texas) or 46 percent (Oklahoma)?

 

[kmoose]

What if N.D. announced that it would no longer put a team on its schedule unless it had a graduation rate of 80 or better?

You'd be playing the Blue-Gold game, every week.

But at least every week would be a home game.

 

[Irish4Life09]

OK, Notre Dame does it right, a 96 graduation rate for football players. Only 17 teams in the FBS schools score 80 or better. ... What if N.D. announced that it would no longer put a team on its schedule unless it had a graduation rate of 80 or better? Talk about shaking the thunder down from the sky. Hey, if only 57 percent (Auburn) of your players graduate, are you really a COLLEGE team? How about 55 percent (Alabama), 52 percent (Ohio State), 51 percent (Michigan State), 50 percent (Texas) or 46 percent (Oklahoma)?

Do you really feel like only playing Harvard,Duke,Yale,etc.? I'd rather kill myself.

 

[IrishLax]

OK, Notre Dame does it right, a 96 graduation rate for football players. Only 17 teams in the FBS schools score 80 or better. ... What if N.D. announced that it would no longer put a team on its schedule unless it had a graduation rate of 80 or better? Talk about shaking the thunder down from the sky. Hey, if only 57 percent (Auburn) of your players graduate, are you really a COLLEGE team? How about 55 percent (Alabama), 52 percent (Ohio State), 51 percent (Michigan State), 50 percent (Texas) or 46 percent (Oklahoma)?

The problem is if the NCAA said "you must graduate 75% of your players to play in a bowl game" all of those teams would then just cheat academically to ensure that they met the metrics. This already happened at Auburn with sociology "independent study" courses a couple years ago before a professor exposed it.

 

[fightincolts]

Do you really feel like only playing Harvard,Duke,Yale,etc.? I'd rather kill myself.

We'd still lose to Stanford...

 

[PLACforever]

We should start a conference with only those schools - at least we'd get to play in a BCS game every year!

 

[jason_h537]

This really bothers me. People say college football is just a farm system for NFL. Let's take the SEC out of the equation because we know where they stand. A football roster is 85 men. Take even the most talented USC team, how many players in a single season eventually got a shot at the league? 20-30?

That leaves over 40-50 guys who will never see a snap at the next level. That is the majority of the squad that will at least leave with a degree from a major university. Take a school like Illinois, USF, Iowa St and that number grows. Now look at Tulsa, Toledo, and Nevada who most know they will never be a pro but at least will get a quality education

it's easy to read about Auburn and Ohio St and gt mad but in the grand scheme of things, it's an isolated incedent

 

[Old Man Mike]

Maybe there's another way to look at this. I've found that in almost anything you can rarely change the "other guy" and basically have moral duty concerning one's OWN behavior.

I see this football situation as Notre Dame [and a small number of other schools] as waging a magnificent all-odds-against battle and everyone in the nation realizing it, whether they'll admit it or not. Because we are the standard bearers [with the service academies, Stanford, Northwestern etc] , of this "higher ground" and because Notre Dame is the shiningest light of them all, sociologically at least, we will be hated and grudgingly admired at the same time.

Notre Dame's role is the noble knight who will not give in. And the greater the Dragons, the nobler. I actually have enjoyed "in ancient times" when "Ol'Notre Dame" won over all, and moreso when the "all" were careless monsters. I think that with Kelly, we can rise up and smite the Evil Empires again.

This task is the task of legends. This example that we give to the world is vital. With what is now the right ingredients, I want us to show the world that going the high road can still be the way. We need the Message of Notre Dame more and more. And if this sounded over-the-top to anyone, I mean it EXACTLY with the fire and imagery that I wrote into it. God Bless Notre Dame and blow the semi-pro bastards off the field!!!

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Maybe there's another way to look at this. I've found that in almost anything you can rarely change the "other guy" and basically have moral duty concerning one's OWN behavior.

I see this football situation as Notre Dame [and a small number of other schools] as waging a magnificent all-odds-against battle and everyone in the nation realizing it, whether they'll admit it or not. Because we are the standard bearers [with the service academies, Stanford, Northwestern etc] , of this "higher ground" and because Notre Dame is the shiningest light of them all, sociologically at least, we will be hated and grudgingly admired at the same time.

Notre Dame's role is the noble knight who will not give in. And the greater the Dragons, the nobler. I actually have enjoyed "in ancient times" when "Ol'Notre Dame" won over all, and moreso when the "all" were careless monsters. I think that with Kelly, we can rise up and smite the Evil Empires again.

This task is the task of legends. This example that we give to the world is vital. With what is now the right ingredients, I want us to show the world that going the high road can still be the way. We need the Message of Notre Dame more and more. And if this sounded over-the-top to anyone, I mean it EXACTLY with the fire and imagery that I wrote into it. God Bless Notre Dame and blow the semi-pro bastards off the field!!!

Great post sir. Geez, I just went to Youtube and had to watch "Here come the Irish" YouTube - Here Come the Irish of Notre Dame, sort of as a chaser to that shot of adrenaline...

 

[A Pac]

Great post. I totally agree. It's sn absolute joke that some teams put little focus on academics. This is the exact argument I make when people say that football players should be paid. If we pay them, then we should pay all students on scholarship: the women's teams and kids on academic scholarships should get paid too. Aren't they using their gifts too? It's not fair. It's also why I get pissed when guys like Chris Johnson want a pay raise from $2 million a year. What's the average yearly income for a college dropout? He should try to live on that for a year and see if he still wants a pay increase.

 

[ACamp1900]

Let's take the Fake out of College Football

Let's take the Fake out of College Football

^^^

I love the idea of the thread title... But how exactly do you intend to make Bama take all those banners down???

 

[NankerPhelge]

Just think, if we could have done that last year, we would have beaten Michigan State.

 

[Irish in Hudson]

Maybe there's another way to look at this. I've found that in almost anything you can rarely change the "other guy" and basically have moral duty concerning one's OWN behavior.

I see this football situation as Notre Dame [and a small number of other schools] as waging a magnificent all-odds-against battle and everyone in the nation realizing it, whether they'll admit it or not. Because we are the standard bearers [with the service academies, Stanford, Northwestern etc] , of this "higher ground" and because Notre Dame is the shiningest light of them all, sociologically at least, we will be hated and grudgingly admired at the same time.

Notre Dame's role is the noble knight who will not give in. And the greater the Dragons, the nobler. I actually have enjoyed "in ancient times" when "Ol'Notre Dame" won over all, and moreso when the "all" were careless monsters. I think that with Kelly, we can rise up and smite the Evil Empires again.

This task is the task of legends. This example that we give to the world is vital. With what is now the right ingredients, I want us to show the world that going the high road can still be the way. We need the Message of Notre Dame more and more. And if this sounded over-the-top to anyone, I mean it EXACTLY with the fire and imagery that I wrote into it. God Bless Notre Dame and blow the semi-pro bastards off the field!!!

Well said Sir.

 

[IrishLax]

Just think, if we could have done that last year, we would have beaten Michigan State.

hahahahaha

 

[twig21]

Great post sir. Geez, I just went to Youtube and had to watch "Here come the Irish" YouTube - Here Come the Irish of Notre Dame, sort of as a chaser to that shot of adrenaline...

Is that the 3min video that start with Lou Holtzs speech about repspect?

 

[GreatGolson]

Do you really feel like only playing Harvard,Duke,Yale,etc.? I'd rather kill myself.

we would be undefeated every year....

 

[irishtrain]

Maybe there's another way to look at this. I've found that in almost anything you can rarely change the "other guy" and basically have moral duty concerning one's OWN behavior.

I see this football situation as Notre Dame [and a small number of other schools] as waging a magnificent all-odds-against battle and everyone in the nation realizing it, whether they'll admit it or not. Because we are the standard bearers [with the service academies, Stanford, Northwestern etc] , of this "higher ground" and because Notre Dame is the shiningest light of them all, sociologically at least, we will be hated and grudgingly admired at the same time.

Notre Dame's role is the noble knight who will not give in. And the greater the Dragons, the nobler. I actually have enjoyed "in ancient times" when "Ol'Notre Dame" won over all, and moreso when the "all" were careless monsters. I think that with Kelly, we can rise up and smite the Evil Empires again.

This task is the task of legends. This example that we give to the world is vital. With what is now the right ingredients, I want us to show the world that going the high road can still be the way. We need the Message of Notre Dame more and more. And if this sounded over-the-top to anyone, I mean it EXACTLY with the fire and imagery that I wrote into it. God Bless Notre Dame and blow the semi-pro bastards off the field!!!

ONE OF OUR BEST POSTS. THANK YOU MIKE

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

Marge, do you mind if I play Devil's Advocate? Marge: why sure Homie. (Cut to Homer playing pinball game called Ddevil's Advocate)

I think the only reason this bothers us so much is because we as fans are forced to route for kids who are really intelligent. We route for a school that enforces academic standards. As some of you know, I am a die hard UCONN basketball fan. If I am not mistaken, they have one of the worst graduation rates in the Big East, if not the country. Do you think I care? I don't. I think we care because we see the success of other schools who have poor academic standards. Perhaps its jealousy. I know some of you geniunely care about Notre Dame's academic integrity, but I'm sorry, I don't. It will be sweeter if they win a BCS bowl game after the recent struggles though.

Now if you really want to get deep, auburn has 85 kids on their roster, Im guessing 5-10 could hack it academically at ND. But for those players who have no business being in college and grew up in poor areas where education is of zero importance, football gives the player a chance to make it out of their situation for 1-4 years and if they move on to NFL, maybe the rest of their life. A chip and chair is all you need (chip and a dream too).

But this post is only if you allow me to play Devil's Advocate...

 

[Old Man Mike]

Sorry, DA...I care. I REALLY care. That's me. That's the only one I can make decisions for. But Notre Dame is part of me and I am part of it. It's not just football.

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

I know Old Man Mike, I know. That's why I love your posts because I belive all of your words. I'm just more cynical. Probably to a fault.

 

[irishtrain]

Mike and I have had this conversation before and my take is they dont have to be exactly like the student body in choice of study just in the education process and succeeding. In other words graduating. Notre Dame will take care of the process of molding them but I do not think ball players should be held to the exact standards of the student body. With that said what goes on in the SEC or any other football factory is not college education. Its semi pro football, let me change that its pro football.

 

[Old Man Mike]

To the Train: Yes, right on. Whoever the kid, and whoever the Institution, they should make a very large effort to allow those guys to grow into full persons intellectually, skillfully, as good citizens and neighbors---as well as physical specimens. I'd even sit back and applaud "practical skill-type" degrees [plumbers/welders/house-builders/ auto-makers/ machinists etc etc ] if that's the way FSU and Alabama and Oklahoma had to go, if they added to that the "skills" of being a good person with a spiritual base and moral-caring and....you get it. If the meathouses would try HARD to mature their young charges into real people, then OK. In WAY too many cases I don't see it. At Notre Dame, the whole way of life is built in. As a Catholic School I guess we have it "easy", but the State guys could at least make an effort.

 

[irishtrain]

To the Train: Yes, right on. Whoever the kid, and whoever the Institution, they should make a very large effort to allow those guys to grow into full persons intellectually, skillfully, as good citizens and neighbors---as well as physical specimens. I'd even sit back and applaud "practical skill-type" degrees [plumbers/welders/house-builders/ auto-makers/ machinists etc etc ] if that's the way FSU and Alabama and Oklahoma had to go, if they added to that the "skills" of being a good person with a spiritual base and moral-caring and....you get it. If the meathouses would try HARD to mature their young charges into real people, then OK. In WAY too many cases I don't see it. At Notre Dame, the whole way of life is built in. As a Catholic School I guess we have it "easy", but the State guys could at least make an effort.

This is good stuff and the vocations that you speak of are honorable and needed. Notre Dame would never have welding or plumbing etc but it doesnt mean you cant own your own business and have 25 welders/plumbers or any other practical skill company with that many employees. By the way John Huarte owns one of the largest ceremic tile marble and decorative stone business in the entire united states. There was no major for that other than the school of business. The core here is your thoughts on success in the classroom and the code of the school. Thats why we all respect Notre Dame. I'm way past playing the game like the 'factories' its about time Notre Dame is appreciated nationally as they start winning again while doing it right. Lastly Mike you and I both know that has been what attracted the nation to Notre Dame years ago, winning football with real college people.

 

[PJWhitfield]

A lot of good comments here. Here's my last thought: Even if Notre Dame set the screen for opponents at an 80% and up graduation rate, you still get a fairly decent list of opponents. Northwestern, Duke, Rice, Navy, Boston College, Rutgers, Stanford, Air Force, Army, Penn State, Southern Mississippi, Washington, Cincinnati and Miami Fla. Knock the screen down to 70% and you can pick up names like Iowa, Connecticut, Illinois, SMU, North Carolina, Virginia, Missouri and Texas Christian. The important thing I think isn't to set up a holier-than-thou stance (which I'm sure the Notre Dame haters would accuse the school of) but to spotlight the issue and maybe put a little pressure on the laggards. If Notre Dame's goal was truly to look holier than thou then the current situation is ideal for that. But I think Notre Dame could use its scheduling to leverage the issue, and bring those who aren't thinking enough about the issue up to speed. As far as getting the percentage up with hollow studies, that's fairly easy to identify. The percentage is just one tool of many when evaluating future opponents.

 

[BGIF]

Marge, do you mind if I play Devil's Advocate? Marge: why sure Homie. (Cut to Homer playing pinball game called Ddevil's Advocate)

I think the only reason this bothers us so much is because we as fans are forced to route for kids who are really intelligent. We route for a school that enforces academic standards. As some of you know, I am a die hard UCONN basketball fan. If I am not mistaken, they have one of the worst graduation rates in the Big East, if not the country. Do you think I care? I don't. I think we care because we see the success of other schools who have poor academic standards. Perhaps its jealousy. I know some of you geniunely care about Notre Dame's academic integrity, but I'm sorry, I don't. It will be sweeter if they win a BCS bowl game after the recent struggles though.

Now if you really want to get deep, auburn has 85 kids on their roster, Im guessing 5-10 could hack it academically at ND. But for those players who have no business being in college and grew up in poor areas where education is of zero importance, football gives the player a chance to make it out of their situation for 1-4 years and if they move on to NFL, maybe the rest of their life. A chip and chair is all you need (chip and a dream too).

But this post is only if you allow me to play Devil's Advocate...

About a dozen years ago an Auburn alunmus, a former football player, sued the university because he was a functional illiterate. He was waived through grade school. His HS coaches argued "football will keep him in school" and he continued to be promoted. Auburn, I'm sure didn't want to be the first one to so "no, earn your grades."

I was told by an SEC Commisioner a few years ago that an Auburn player was the reason for the minimum Test Score requirement by the NCAA. He had an ACT score of 7. During that same player's senior season, a reporter covering the Tigers broke a story that the players hadn't attended classes since the first week of class. It was then midweek before the IronBowl. When asked if that was true, Auburn Head Coach Pat Dye tersely responded, "How should I know if a player attends classes, I'm the football coach not a professor." It was confirmed as true and the player still played in the IronBowl against archrival Alabama and he also played in New Year's Day bowl. That's the same Pat Dye that the NCAA required Auburn to remove as head coach as part of their penalty in the Eric Ramsey pay for play scandal. Auburn allowed Dye to resign then he was appointed "Special Assistant to the University President" - for life.

About a half dozne years later, after a reporter broke a story that there was something like 6 SEC players that had played in a bowl game one year without passing a single course, the SEC President's were so outraged that they instituted an SEC rule that a player must pass (that's a "D") two courses in the Fall semester to be eligibile to play in a bowl game. He could take 6 courses and get 4 "F"s but as long as he passed 2 he was eligiible to play in a bowl.

The President of OSU was "outraged" when he learned that Katzenmoyer was a Senior without a declared major. He was "stunned" to learn that not all colleges in the OSU system required Seniors to declare a major. He was not outraged that Katzenmoyer took 3 cakes course in summer school Aceing them all. Nor was he outraged that Katzenmoyer didn't attend classes during the Fall of his senior year.

I forget the names of the Georgia prof and Tennessee prof that blew the whistle on their schools academic abuses which actually inflated horrendous graduation rates.

 

[IrishLax]

Wait.. Auburn has already been caught in a pay for play scandal before Cam Newton??

 

[Old Man Mike]

Many years ago there was a running joke about a player like BGIF describes. The entire campus was up in arms [this was not Auburn, but allegedly fictional] because the English prof was going to flunk the star thereby making him ineligible. The president of the University called the prof in and applied huge pressure.

The prof caved. He said: alright!! I give up!! If this guy can get EVEN ONE LETTER CORRECT in spelling a word I'll pass him!! The jock was called in and the President , head coach, and major donors sat in audience. "OK, Murphy [I have to use a name of my own ethnicity so no one will get pi*sed off], OK Murphy, spell the word 'coffee'!" --- "Oh heck prof, that's easy! K-A-W-P-H-Y.!!!".

The player played for showing signs that he knew several letters of the alphabet, and was trying really hard.

 

[BGIF]

Wait.. Auburn has already been caught in a pay for play scandal before Cam Newton??

Auburn is among the NCAA's leader is probations.

The early 90's scandal I believe referred to improper "loans" to players. Pat Dye reportedly used influence with a bank to get "loans" for players. At the time Dye was AD as well as football coach.

The most interesting connection was the CEO of the bank involved was a mover and shaker on the Auburn Board of Trustees who frequently meddled in the running of the football program. Talk aobut "Lack of Institutional Control".

Remember the NCAA wanted Dye severed from the program. That's when he resigned and was appointed to "Special Assistant to the President". Did I forget to mention Dye was on the Board of Trustees of that bank?

I believe it was the CEO's jet that was used a few years ago to send a the then Auburn AD (Dye was Special Assistant to the President) and the Auburn President to meet clandestinely with Petrino while Tuberville was still coaching at Auburn. The AD and Pres both lost their jobs (as did Tuberville after that scandal blew over).

The FDIC took over the bank in 2009 in the midst of the banking meltdown.

Bobby Lowder, Colonial Bancgroup, the FDIC and Auburn football - The Curious Capitalist - TIME.com

 

[BGIF]

Many years ago there was a running joke about a player like BGIF describes. The entire campus was up in arms [this was not Auburn, but allegedly fictional] because the English prof was going to flunk the star thereby making him ineligible. The president of the University called the prof in and applied huge pressure.

The prof caved. He said: alright!! I give up!! If this guy can get EVEN ONE LETTER CORRECT in spelling a word I'll pass him!! The jock was called in and the President , head coach, and major donors sat in audience. "OK, Murphy [I have to use a name of my own ethnicity so no one will get pi*sed off], OK Murphy, spell the word 'coffee'!" --- "Oh heck prof, that's easy! K-A-W-P-H-Y.!!!".

The player played for showing signs that he knew several letters of the alphabet, and was trying really hard.

There is no truth to the rumor started by Alabama fans that Bo Jackson's real first name was Bob but he had trouble spelling big words.

 

[BGIF]

Google Cam Newton and Colonial Bank.

I'm sure it's all coincidental.