Concerns about Coach Kelly

[IrishLax]

I was as amped up as anyone after CW's first two years, but at the same time, comments from Kirk Herbstreit, and other writers, bloggers...etc still stung when they would talk about ND's lack of defense...especially against elite teams. I, like many ND fans, would insist that it's growing pains..etc.

Recruiting class, after recruiting class just left a hollow feeling when the talent was loaded up along the offense, and the defense left over with the average at best prospects. (aside from Manti)

CW also could not manage his team, how many D-Coord's did he go through, all with different systems?

Also, aside from the skill positions, I feel like the other positions were neglected, and not developed. Sam Young for example, you can make an argument that he was worse after 4 years at ND then he was when he came in. Not to mention, CW did not see the value in a true strength, and conditioning program. But, from looking at him, is it really that surprising?

BK just feels different. He recruits to the needs of the team. Every player on ND's team had gotten better each game. BK is an incredible teacher, and leader.

I drink the Kool-aid as much as anyone on this board, but realistically, will he win a NC? Who knows. The stars would have to align perfectly, and a little Irish luck wouldn't hurt the cause. But I do think ND will be relevant again, and will be competing in BCS bowls with fair regularity.

To expand on this, the only position that really developed well under Weis was QB and TE. You can make an argument (and many analysts do) that even WRs were not developed well in catching technique or route running. And then there is Sam Young....

I read an article on him with the Cowboys. Basically, the essence of it all was that Sam Young has worlds of ability... and is going through the process of unlearning everything he was taught wrong at Notre Dame. Literally, the article features a lot of quotes from him and his position coach saying "well now that I'm doing this..." or "since Sam has learned this..." or "we're really happy with how he is progressing since we changed his technique on this..." The conclusion of the article is that he was a steal as a 6th round pick and might be a starter next year. I'll try to find the ESPN link in a bit, but you hit the nail on the head.

Weis just didn't have enough HC/GMish experience to really know how to run a team or get the right coaches in place to develop athletes into talented ball players.

 

[NewEnglandGuy]

"There’s Nothing 'Tuitt'"

Notre Dame Football Brian Kelly And Staff On Track

My man crushes on Kelly, Diaco, Alford, and Martin are at an all time high..well, until we bring home Title #12 that is.

 

[NDinL.A.]

maybe he got them ready for the NFL, but the most success from CW in the NFL has been the TE's.

Being a GVSU grad, and being there during Kelly's NC run (and one year of Chuck Martin's), my only concern about kelly now, is; does he stick around for more than 3 years? i hope and believe "yes", but this is a legitimate concern, is it not?

It's not a legitimate concern at all, at least for me. Say he has two more seasons at ND, and they are great. What is his step up? A college job? Please. He's been an ND fan for life, and winning at ND is unlike any other place - so any other job (assuming he's winning) is a step down.

And so that means the pros. Does he seem like a pro coach to you? He doesn't to me in the least. He has ZERO experience there (unlike most other coaches who have made the jump), and he just doesn't have the feel of a pro guy. And even if he did eventually want to make the jump, it ain't hapenning after only 2 more years, that's for sure. Even Pete Carroll, who desperately wanted to return to the NFL for redemption and his ego, stayed in the college game for almost a decade, despite unprecedented success.

I worry much more about Kelly winning here than Kelly leaving. (and I am a HUGE Kelly supporter)

 

[phork]

Another in a long list of I told you so. I know its way early to reflect on Kelly's career here, but its started.

 

[mgriff]

He's done a great job thus far, but there is still a long way to go. I would point you to the early careers of the last two head coaches. While Kelly didn't have the dramatic initial success, it can be perceived as slow and steady growth towards our ultimate goal of college football power. The signs are encouraging, but I would urge everyone to keep their perspective--we haven't done it yet, and there is still a long way to go.

 

[BeatSC]

More Monkeys off our back

More Monkeys off our back

It's not a legitimate concern at all, at least for me. Say he has two more seasons at ND, and they are great. What is his step up? A college job? Please. He's been an ND fan for life, and winning at ND is unlike any other place - so any other job (assuming he's winning) is a step down.

And so that means the pros. Does he seem like a pro coach to you? He doesn't to me in the least. He has ZERO experience there (unlike most other coaches who have made the jump), and he just doesn't have the feel of a pro guy. And even if he did eventually want to make the jump, it ain't hapenning after only 2 more years, that's for sure. Even Pete Carroll, who desperately wanted to return to the NFL for redemption and his ego, stayed in the college game for almost a decade, despite unprecedented success.

I worry much more about Kelly winning here than Kelly leaving. (and I am a HUGE Kelly supporter)

Despite a shaky start I think Kelly is the real deal. Unlike our previous 3 coaches he has proven himself as a winner at all levels of CFB. He has done this with 3 star or less talent. He made a few mistakes this year but look at what he had to deal with. Matt James death, Declan Sullivan's death, injuries to key positions like never before. A new and inexperienced QB (twice). We got legit beat twice this year and the coaching had alot to do with those losses. He was undefeated in November against what might be considered the toughest stretch. We routed a previously #5 ranked Utah, and beat USC away despite 4 QB TO's. HE also won a legit bowl game against another team (like USC) that was favored to beat us and we beat up on Miami like no other team in 2010. What Kelly will do with a top 10 rated class of athletes should scare alot of other schools out there. Im sure we will see some very good RB play in the future with whoever Kelly gets. Certainly better than anything CW was able to put on the field. Looking forward to the future with Kelly near and far.

 

[IrishLax]

While a lot of people are on the "don't get to happy!!" train... here is some food for thought:

Notre Dame gave up 4 offensive touchdowns in its last 5 games. Of those 4 offensive touchdowns, only the first drive of the game for Tulsa was a legitimate drive for a touchdown. USC took 4 plays to go 2 yards. Miami scored 2 TDs in garbage time with a lot of second teamers in. So Notre Dame gave up one legitimate offensive touchdown in its last 5 games.

My concerns with Kelly were that:
1. He had never recruited on the big stage
2. He had never really put together a formidable defense at the BCS level

In my mind, he has checked both of those off my list. I'm confident he can win (he's been doing it for 20 years) and I'm confident he will put a competent offense together. Does that mean he will win a title next year? Hell no. But it does mean that sooner rather than later we should be putting consistently competitive teams on the field. In my opinion, while there is no guarantee that he ever wins a title, I feel fully confident we will never see abominations like 3-9 under his tenure.

 

[Jerry]

My biggest concern with Kelly was that if he didn't win right away he wouldn't be able to recruit on past accomplishments (like Weis w/ his Super Bowl rings). And that bad recruiting classes could snowball.

If ND wins 5 games this year then they probably don't land Lynch, Williams and possibly Tuitt. Not to mention Golsen and a couple other guys.

Then next season there is a ton of pressure to win (as usual) and recruit off that winning to fill a lot of holes. This season ended up being perfect from a recruiting standpoint. They end the season making a ton of progress on defense, beating SC and winning a relatively easy bowl game but vs. a high profile opponent.

 

[Ironman8]

"There’s Nothing 'Tuitt'"

Notre Dame Football Brian Kelly And Staff On Track

My man crushes on Kelly, Diaco, Alford, and Martin are at an all time high..well, until we bring home Title #12 that is.

Great read man. Thanks!

 

[irishpat183]

Not worried about Kelly one bit. I said from the moment he got hired...He was made for a job like this. The only thing that held him back was availiblity. If you give a guy with this personality a national recruiting base, and the resources of Notre Dame...Watch out.

As for him taking off after three years? Not gonna happen. As I said with the two prior coaches...Whoever brings ND back to glory, will have a blank check. Nuff said.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I don't know how anyone could have predicted how good a Notre Dame level recruiter Kelly & Staff were going to be, but in this area one season DOES tell you that they have the talents for it. I have no concerns there at all, and had no opinions until the experiment was run.

Kelly also is innovative and not hamstrung by conservatism in "the ways things must be done". I like this about him very much, and did so at hiring time. Football evolves. I wanted a guy who would evolve with it---enough of a "student" to know what does work, and enough of a self-made man to break out of unhelpful boxes.

I wanted a guy who looked like Notre Dame, charmed everybody like a friendly Leprechaun, made good press, and was tough and authentic at the same time. Once I saw him in all these roles, I thought "Wow!"

The thing that all of us are going to have to live with is that Kelly thinks that players should know their jobs and execute them at a high level. Well, what's wrong with that?? It is because they aren't talented robots, still kids, and they're going to blow it sometimes. But Kelly's belief that they are ready, and NOT going to blow it, makes him a gambler in everyone else's eyes.

Kelly thinks certain fourth down plays should ALWAYS work, because he's counting on proper execution. He thinks that certain goalline passes are NEVER going to be intercepted, because he's expecting proper execution. Kelly doesn't think about what can go wrong---he assumes that it will go right.

Commentators have noticed this about our coach for quite some time, and he made one list pre-season of the ten coaches most likely to make an in-game decision which would cost his team a game. Some of those coaches made the list because they were TOO conservative [ex.Wannstadt]. Some made it because they were considered to be ...well...stupid [ex.Kiffen]. Some were judged too much of a gambler---like our guy.

Thing is, Kelly doesn't think he's gambling at the time, at least no more than any other play. That's why he said after Tulsa, the idea of not tossing it to Mike Floyd never crossed his mind. We're not going to like it when our miracleworker does those things, but that's our boy. We just need to get our younger boys ready to execute the way the Boss thinks they should.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

I don't know how anyone could have predicted how good a Notre Dame level recruiter Kelly & Staff were going to be, but in this area one season DOES tell you that they have the talents for it. I have no concerns there at all, and had no opinions until the experiment was run.

Kelly also is innovative and not hamstrung by conservatism in "the ways things must be done". I like this about him very much, and did so at hiring time. Football evolves. I wanted a guy who would evolve with it---enough of a "student" to know what does work, and enough of a self-made man to break out of unhelpful boxes.

I wanted a guy who looked like Notre Dame, charmed everybody like a friendly Leprechaun, made good press, and was tough and authentic at the same time. Once I saw him in all these roles, I thought "Wow!"

The thing that all of us are going to have to live with is that Kelly thinks that players should know their jobs and execute them at a high level. Well, what's wrong with that?? It is because they aren't talented robots, still kids, and they're going to blow it sometimes. But Kelly's belief that they are ready, and NOT going to blow it, makes him a gambler in everyone else's eyes.

Kelly thinks certain fourth down plays should ALWAYS work, because he's counting on proper execution. He thinks that certain goalline passes are NEVER going to be intercepted, because he's expecting proper execution. Kelly doesn't think about what can go wrong---he assumes that it will go right.

Commentators have noticed this about our coach for quite some time, and he made one list pre-season of the ten coaches most likely to make an in-game decision which would cost his team a game. Some of those coaches made the list because they were TOO conservative [ex.Wannstadt]. Some made it because they were considered to be ...well...stupid [ex.Kiffen]. Some were judged too much of a gambler---like our guy.

Thing is, Kelly doesn't think he's gambling at the time, at least no more than any other play. That's why he said after Tulsa, the idea of not tossing it to Mike Floyd never crossed his mind. We're not going to like it when our miracleworker does those things, but that's our boy. We just need to get our younger boys ready to execute the way the Boss thinks they should.

please! don't say hamstring or any variance there of!!
kidding...
this is a really good post friend of friends. and i agree. again, i've been following this guy for 12 years. you're not telling me anything i don't already know.

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

He never recruited elite talent, so that was a bit of a concern, but the product he was selling beforee was not the same thing as ND.

 

[irishpat183]

I don't know how anyone could have predicted how good a Notre Dame level recruiter Kelly & Staff were going to be, but in this area one season DOES tell you that they have the talents for it. I have no concerns there at all, and had no opinions until the experiment was run.

Kelly also is innovative and not hamstrung by conservatism in "the ways things must be done". I like this about him very much, and did so at hiring time. Football evolves. I wanted a guy who would evolve with it---enough of a "student" to know what does work, and enough of a self-made man to break out of unhelpful boxes.

I wanted a guy who looked like Notre Dame, charmed everybody like a friendly Leprechaun, made good press, and was tough and authentic at the same time. Once I saw him in all these roles, I thought "Wow!"

The thing that all of us are going to have to live with is that Kelly thinks that players should know their jobs and execute them at a high level. Well, what's wrong with that?? It is because they aren't talented robots, still kids, and they're going to blow it sometimes. But Kelly's belief that they are ready, and NOT going to blow it, makes him a gambler in everyone else's eyes.

Kelly thinks certain fourth down plays should ALWAYS work, because he's counting on proper execution. He thinks that certain goalline passes are NEVER going to be intercepted, because he's expecting proper execution. Kelly doesn't think about what can go wrong---he assumes that it will go right.

Commentators have noticed this about our coach for quite some time, and he made one list pre-season of the ten coaches most likely to make an in-game decision which would cost his team a game. Some of those coaches made the list because they were TOO conservative [ex.Wannstadt]. Some made it because they were considered to be ...well...stupid [ex.Kiffen]. Some were judged too much of a gambler---like our guy.

Thing is, Kelly doesn't think he's gambling at the time, at least no more than any other play. That's why he said after Tulsa, the idea of not tossing it to Mike Floyd never crossed his mind. We're not going to like it when our miracleworker does those things, but that's our boy. We just need to get our younger boys ready to execute the way the Boss thinks they should.

Yes, "that's our boy" but none of this is a good thing. As a head coach, you have to know when to walk away, and go for it. That is the one thing I don't like about Kelly. And I don't accept the excuse that "that's our boy". Every down, every game, is important. Treat it like so. I have all the confidence in the world in Kelly, but he needs to take a hard look at things like that...

 

[Old Man Mike]

I obviously agree that this is Coach's "weakness". That's why I discussed it. Nobody's perfect. Kelly will get better at this once he can get a fuller assessment of what everyone can and cannot do. First season was a bit too quick to do a good job at that. It's always a dichotomy isn't is? Do we want a coach who is so worried about what will go wrong that he plays not to lose [we know how that usually turns out]. Or do we accept a coach who is a touch overconfident in his players and goes for it? It's a tough line to walk every time, and I believe that nobody can do it. But you get better at it the more familiar with your players and your opponents you are. That familiarity requires a lot of on-field reps, even for Kelly.

P.S. in the heat of the game, there is not a lot of time [even with the harried-ness of a time-out] to meditate upon the "odds" et al of a certain approach. Kelly has to be a strong decision-maker. That strength of confidence, displayed openly and decisively, also maximizes the confidence of the team, and consequently success.

 

[betecd]

I think from a face value standpoint the biggest change from CW to the Kelly era has to be the quote from CW " If you are looking we are looking" This staff has addressed what type of players they want and they execute the right kind of plan to get and keep them. I know that one class does not make a program but what I am most pleased with is their overall plan.

 

[jason_h537]

I think from a face value standpoint the biggest change from CW to the Kelly era has to be the quote from CW " If you are looking we are looking" This staff has addressed what type of players they want and they execute the right kind of plan to get and keep them. I know that one class does not make a program but what I am most pleased with is their overall plan.

The "if you're looking, we are looking" thing is overblown.

1. After Weis got burned the 1st couple of years he would hold off on accepting verbals. He asked recruits to be 100% not just spur of the moment.

2. Weis said this but he also knew that certain players could not be replaced. Chris Martin started looking around and the staff did not exactly pull his offer.

A good example is Justice Hayes. He switched and the staff moved on. Hayes is a very good prospect but Kelly felt he could find another player to fit that role (Amir, McDaniel).

Tuitt and Lynch were still recruited because you can not find guys to replace them. Kelly told Tuitt on his in-home that the reason he was there is because Tuitt is a great player, he could find a good player elsewhere. Great players are another story.

 

[johnnykillz]

Kelly told Tuitt on his in-home that the reason he was there is because Tuitt is a great player, he could find a good player elsewhere. Great players are another story.

Here lies the ultimate truth...

Nice Jason.

 

[jakerbluegold]

My concerns about coach Kelly?

NONE!