The Latest article from SBT on Elizabeth Seeberg

k1ssme1m1r1sh

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Notre Dame's reaction to latest Chicago Tribune story on Seeburg investigation - wsbt.com

This is the response on WSBT's website. I hate coming into work and my Tribune is laying on my desk with this garbage. Why is the Chicago Tribune (the writers of the article in the original post) so concerned with S Bend? Anyway, South Bend is crazy with haters and ND die hards all arguing over this case. Aye yi yi. I wanted to post the original article like the person who started the thread, but I didn't want to upset anyone on here. But honestly, between this and the Sullivan case I can assure you, from being in the Bend everyday, it's being taken care of.
 

IrishLax

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A much more reasonable article, but still they go out of their way to gloss over what they want to gloss over and subtly spin some parts to make it look like ND pulled a "cover up" when really they followed procedure to the letter. The story can be summed up like this:

1. No one knows what happened, but it wasn't rape. Hence why it is hard to bring any charges at all.

2. She had a longstanding history of mental problems that only gets one sentence when it is the single most important and complicating fact here.

3. The University isn't disclosing information until the investigations conclude. What exactly is wrong with that? Why in this society now do people hate due process and due diligence so much?
 

IrishLax

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Notre Dame's reaction to latest Chicago Tribune story on Seeburg investigation - wsbt.com

This is the response on WSBT's website. I hate coming into work and my Tribune is laying on my desk with this garbage. Why is the Chicago Tribune (the writers of the article in the original post) so concerned with S Bend? Anyway, South Bend is crazy with haters and ND die hards all arguing over this case. Aye yi yi. I wanted to post the original article like the person who started the thread, but I didn't want to upset anyone on here. But honestly, between this and the Sullivan case I can assure you, from being in the Bend everyday, it's being taken care of.

See how much clearer that statement reads than the article? Because it makes sense. ND has been doing everything by the book from the start.
 

irish1958

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Guilty until proven innocent. How do you prove a negative?
I have two daughters, so I am sympathetic to this type of charge, but there must be some sort of proof.
 

IrishLax

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Guilty until proven innocent. How do you prove a negative?
I have two daughters, so I am sympathetic to this type of charge, but there must be some sort of proof.

Exactly. I thought the Duke lacrosse scandal taught people that. But I guess I have too much faith in America to learn their lesson.
 

Irish Insanity

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Appears to me to be a response by the family for not getting what they wanted how they wanted it. There is very little, maybe not any, proof that has surfaced yet towards the initial allegations. Other authorities have looked into this and ND handling of it and have yet to make any statement of finding truth in the way the family and media are painting it. Until any solid evidence surfaces and actions are taken the media should find a more solid story to report
 

devolg

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Something I posted elsewhere today where the overwhelming response is that ND is and always has, attempted to sweep this under the rug...

Its incredible the amount of people who hijack a tragedy like this to promote their own agenda. Everything's a conspiracy. They already have a deep seeded hatred for those they feel are more privileged than they & deep down they want things... like this to be true so they have more justification for their disdain. They refuse to entertain the possibility that an investigation is ongoing and not yielding the results they'd hoped. Whats more is these people are the sole reason this family are not privy to the name of the accused. This witch hunt mentality in our society doesn't allow for the accused to stand innocent until proven guilty.
 

tommyIRISH23

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I think it's a little more then fuel. Sexual Assault is an indictable offense, and with the system I am familiar with, should have been passed to the Pros. Office. immediately. It sounds like there is more evidence of incompetence, then a deliberate cover up concerning the campus police.

The sexual assault statutes can be gray in some areas, and without her here to be interviewed to compare her story with his, or her motives behind the filing the report, it will be very difficult to charge anyone.

Whether there is any merit to the story, or not, the campus police have to follow procedure, and investigate all criminal activity. Apparently, someone dropped the ball there. Now, you either have a sexual deviant walking free with a dead victim. Or, you have a troubled, and dead victim whom accused a individual, and University of a terrible crime, and now a potential cover up. Whether the University tried to cover it up or not, it's image is going to be scarred by many nomatter what the truth is.

That's what happens when you don't have a thorough investigation from the beginning.
 

k1ssme1m1r1sh

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The biggest argument here, seems to be because she had a DNA kit done. Well let me explain why. Before I came to work where I am now, I worked for St Joseph Regional Med Center in South Bend. They have a group of doctors and nurses specifically trained in forensics of sexual assault. They are called in to interview a victim and they go to great lengths to make sure every detail is covered. They are mandated to do a DNA kit. A DNA kit does not just include the typical exam of the typical area of the body, it is also scraping under fingernails, shining a black light on clothing...etc. The statement the victim made clearly states, that the person stopped because he was interrupted by his cell phone and did not describe penetration. But this group of nurses and docs go to Memorial hospital as well. And this is why a DNA kit was collected. That fact alone doesn't mean there was an actual rape comitted. But we are not a judge or jury we should not brand this young man and tarnish his career until solid, concrete evidence comes back from the evidence collected to pin point guilt.
 

tommyIRISH23

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The biggest argument here, seems to be because she had a DNA kit done. Well let me explain why. Before I came to work where I am now, I worked for St Joseph Regional Med Center in South Bend. They have a group of doctors and nurses specifically trained in forensics of sexual assault. They are called in to interview a victim and they go to great lengths to make sure every detail is covered. They are mandated to do a DNA kit. A DNA kit does not just include the typical exam of the typical area of the body, it is also scraping under fingernails, shining a black light on clothing...etc. The statement the victim made clearly states, that the person stopped because he was interrupted by his cell phone and did not describe penetration. But this group of nurses and docs go to Memorial hospital as well. And this is why a DNA kit was collected. That fact alone doesn't mean there was an actual rape comitted. But we are not a judge or jury we should not brand this young man and tarnish his career until solid, concrete evidence comes back from the evidence collected to pin point guilt.


I agree. But the problem is that somewhere along the line the ball was dropped with this investigation. I don't think it was a cover-up, I just think the campus police tried to handle it, and it blew up in their faces. There seems to be a lot of missing pieces of the puzzle that were late being checked, and they got caught backtracking.

Again, this policy from where I am from is that the local municipality would take the report, then immediately file it to the Prosecutor's Office, where their investigators would handle the investigation.

A thorough investigation can't be done at this point, and now you are stuck with "he said, she said", a dead girl, and the reputation of all three parties being tarnished. People are going to conjure up their own theories, and opinions that have no substance. Some media outlets are going to run with it saying ND covered it up. Some are going to label the poor girl as a mentally unstable head-case that just wanted attention. And some are going to label that football player as a deviant, and the death of a young girl, in some peoples eyes, is going to be pinned on him. The truth likely will never come out at this point.
 

Kingbish01

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I don't want to know a name, but does anyone know what grade the player is in?? I think I heard freshman before, is this true?
 

IrishLax

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I agree. But the problem is that somewhere along the line the ball was dropped with this investigation. I don't think it was a cover-up, I just think the campus police tried to handle it, and it blew up in their faces. There seems to be a lot of missing pieces of the puzzle that were late being checked, and they got caught backtracking.

Again, this policy from where I am from is that the local municipality would take the report, then immediately file it to the Prosecutor's Office, where their investigators would handle the investigation.

A thorough investigation can't be done at this point, and now you are stuck with "he said, she said", a dead girl, and the reputation of all three parties being tarnished. People are going to conjure up their own theories, and opinions that have no substance. Some media outlets are going to run with it saying ND covered it up. Some are going to label the poor girl as a mentally unstable head-case that just wanted attention. And some are going to label that football player as a deviant, and the death of a young girl, in some peoples eyes, is going to be pinned on him. The truth likely will never come out at this point.

Was it? Serious question, not rhetorical or busting your chops at all, I think that question gets to the core of the problem. I just think there is no evidence that ND did anything wrong at all or that anyone is guilty of anything.

There are thousands of sexual assaults and rape cases brought at universities across the country every year. Most of them go nowhere, a minority ever result in a party being found "guilty." I'm finding the assumption that just because NDSP, who is a fully vested police department, didn't immediately notify the prosecutor on day 1 of the investigation they screwed up to be a very false assumption. No prosecutor would ever prosecute a case like this without more information, so what's the point? There is just a very serious lapse in logic going on by a lot of media members and such because they want to make use.

The facts of the case are this: a girl with serious self esteem and anxiety issues put herself in a one-on-one situation with a guy. Something happened, she says it was an unwanted advance and he says it was consensual. There was no sex. After that it is fuzzy... but it seems like her anxiety issues caused her to take her life as the investigation was progressing.

There are no facts that ND did anything wrong, that NDSP did anything wrong or even that the person in question is guilty of anything. There is a lot of smoke... but until the investigation concludes and someone shows me fire I will not jump to conclusions and wish the media used some better judgement on how they present their "facts." But just like with the Duke lacrosse case, everyone assumed with 99.99% certainty that they were guilty and then it turned out they did absolutely nothing and the accuser was crazy. Do we not learn from mistakes anymore?
 

tadman95

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Sorry guys but why would anyone here need to know a name? What purpose do you have in knowing?

Unfortunately it's probably just a matter of time before it breaks which will do a lot of damage to someone if he's not guilty.
 

phork

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I don't think its that simple. Now correct me if I am wrong but I do believe that prosectors office initially claimed that the SB Police did not file a report and share the information. I believe they recanted that statement later and said that all procedures were followed properly.

Now keep in mind that this is a criminal case which will eventually lead to a civil matter. Nobody should be saying anything in regards to the facts of this case publicly. The fact is that no one, including the Tribune, knows jack squat about whats happened or is happening. Newspapers are in the death throws now because all you see any more are sensationalistic stories, usually about Lohan, Hilton or Beiber. Half these guys are just pissed off that the can see an end to their job.
 

jonesman

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Guys,
I am the biggest ND fan imaginable, but I must say that this thing stinks a little and NOT in ND's favor. As many of us have said, "where this is enough smoke, there is likely some fire." I have young daughters of my own and will tell you that I would go to the other end of the Universe to find out what happened here.

Further, I do not think they would have stopped me from going directly to Brian Kelly's office for a meeting with him and the player in question. I would demand answers. In the end, there may be no charges, but I would need answers just like these parents.

I think the player owes a conversation to the family apologizing and explaining himself. I don't care if the girl had some mental issues, the incident in question definitely had some weight on her suicide.

I wish the family best of luck in their search for answers.

As for some of you responding here, you sound like the same UF fans I found blinded by fandom when Demps had his issues.
 

IrishLax

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Guys,
I am the biggest ND fan imaginable, but I must say that this thing stinks a little and NOT in ND's favor. As many of us have said, "where this is enough smoke, there is likely some fire." I have young daughters of my own and will tell you that I would go to the other end of the Universe to find out what happened here.

Further, I do not think they would have stopped me from going directly to Brian Kelly's office for a meeting with him and the player in question. I would demand answers. In the end, there may be no charges, but I would need answers just like these parents.

I think the player owes a conversation to the family apologizing and explaining himself. I don't care if the girl had some mental issues, the incident in question definitely had some weight on her suicide.

I wish the family best of luck in their search for answers.

As for some of you responding here, you sound like the same UF fans I found blinded by fandom when Demps had his issues.

What did Demps do? He wasn't the one who sent his GF a text saying "time to die bitch" right?
 

Irish Houstonian

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A much more reasonable article, but still they go out of their way to gloss over what they want to gloss over and subtly spin some parts to make it look like ND pulled a "cover up" when really they followed procedure to the letter. The story can be summed up like this:

1. No one knows what happened, but it wasn't rape. Hence why it is hard to bring any charges at all.

2. She had a longstanding history of mental problems that only gets one sentence when it is the single most important and complicating fact here.

3. The University isn't disclosing information until the investigations conclude. What exactly is wrong with that? Why in this society now do people hate due process and due diligence so much?

Plus, the one and only disprovable allegation -- that the player and his friend were "communicating on their phones" with one another prior to the attack -- has been 100% disproven.

Talk about "privilege" versus privilege -- they hire the attorney who prosecuted Governor Ryan, at about $1,000 an hour, to interject into a case that, by all accounts, is dead-end, based on a single, metaphysical fact: the "fear in the room".

I think the phone records here may reveal more than the Seebergs intend -- the supposed "assault" ends when he gets another text message. He must not be very adamant about raping if he'd rather be responding to a text message.
 

IrishLax

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Plus, the one and only disprovable allegation -- that the player and his friend were "communicating on their phones" with one another prior to the attack -- has been 100% disproven.

Talk about "privilege" versus privilege -- they hire the attorney who prosecuted Governor Ryan, at about $1,000 an hour, to interject into a case that, by all accounts, is dead-end, based on a single, metaphysical fact: the "fear in the room".

I think the phone records here may reveal more than the Seebergs intend -- the supposed "assault" ends when he gets another text message. He must not be very adamant about raping if he'd rather be responding to a text message.

So they proved there was no phone communication prior to the "assault" by looking at phone records? I'll take your word on that, but that's hilarious if they left out that detail intentionally.
 

devolg

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Just posted by WNDU

St. Joseph County Prosecutor: No criminal charges in sexual assault allegation by late student against Notre Dame football player.
 

AlbuquerqueIrishFan

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Sorry guys but why would anyone here need to know a name? What purpose do you have in knowing?

Unfortunately it's probably just a matter of time before it breaks which will do a lot of damage to someone if he's not guilty.

Ahhh...curiousity. Not to mention the implications it could have on that particular player. If he's kicked out of school, that affects our team on the field, in recruiting to replace him, position battles, etc. But mostly out of curiosity for my own selfish needs.
 

phgreek

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Notre Dame's reaction to latest Chicago Tribune story on Seeburg investigation - wsbt.com

This is the response on WSBT's website. I hate coming into work and my Tribune is laying on my desk with this garbage. Why is the Chicago Tribune (the writers of the article in the original post) so concerned with S Bend? Anyway, South Bend is crazy with haters and ND die hards all arguing over this case. Aye yi yi. I wanted to post the original article like the person who started the thread, but I didn't want to upset anyone on here. But honestly, between this and the Sullivan case I can assure you, from being in the Bend everyday, it's being taken care of.

Good post...good insight...

Why hasn't someone come to the Seebergs and told them the money they are paying this "high profile lawyer" is wasted. Based on what I see, Notre Dame simply cannot give them what they are asking for. Trying to define what "transparent" means, and making it sound like it trumps due process is simply silly...

My heart goes out to Mr. Seeberg. If I put myself in his shoes...I get it. Lots going on in his head right now, not the least of which has to do with Paternal instincts...maybe some regret...it doesn't matter to him his daughter is gone...her issues with mental illness do not compute...he's still doing what his heart says to do as her dad...in many ways he has no choice. And of course the Tribune will keep stoking him by distorting what he can expect/demand from ND...I'm sure they actually think they can "shame" ND into breaking the law to sooth Mr. Seeberg... and the "high Profile Lawyer" will try and add credibility to all of this...so he can stay in the limelight...the die is cast...and we'll all have to watch this poor guy wrestle his grief in public...good work tribune, high profile lawyer...we see grief they hear CHACHING!

In the end, none of it will change the findings...none of it will change the process...none of it will change the law. If there is disciplinary action taken, none of this will have influenced that process either.
 

tommyIRISH23

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Was it? Serious question, not rhetorical or busting your chops at all, I think that question gets to the core of the problem. I just think there is no evidence that ND did anything wrong at all or that anyone is guilty of anything.

There are thousands of sexual assaults and rape cases brought at universities across the country every year. Most of them go nowhere, a minority ever result in a party being found "guilty." I'm finding the assumption that just because NDSP, who is a fully vested police department, didn't immediately notify the prosecutor on day 1 of the investigation they screwed up to be a very false assumption. No prosecutor would ever prosecute a case like this without more information, so what's the point? There is just a very serious lapse in logic going on by a lot of media members and such because they want to make use.

The facts of the case are this: a girl with serious self esteem and anxiety issues put herself in a one-on-one situation with a guy. Something happened, she says it was an unwanted advance and he says it was consensual. There was no sex. After that it is fuzzy... but it seems like her anxiety issues caused her to take her life as the investigation was progressing.

There are no facts that ND did anything wrong, that NDSP did anything wrong or even that the person in question is guilty of anything. There is a lot of smoke... but until the investigation concludes and someone shows me fire I will not jump to conclusions and wish the media used some better judgement on how they present their "facts." But just like with the Duke lacrosse case, everyone assumed with 99.99% certainty that they were guilty and then it turned out they did absolutely nothing and the accuser was crazy. Do we not learn from mistakes anymore?


I only can speak for what information I am given. But the "he said, she said" and the "they didn't hand the case over timely" to the "yeah they did hand it over", just doesn't sit right. It seems that their are people trying to cover themselves. I do not think it is ND trying to cover anything, rather a screw up on the Law Enforcement end. It's not that they didn't hand the investigation over on day 1 that is the problem, it's the not checking phone records immediately, not interviewing friends..etc. The Prosecutor's Office isn't just prosecutor's (attorneys), they have teams of detectives divided up into Units (Sexual Assault, Narcotics, Homicide, Major Crimes, Domestic Violence) that investigate all INDICTABLE a.k.a Felony criminal activity. The campus police department, I have to imagine, is not equip to handle such investigations. They will have one of their detectives work with a Pros. Office. Investigator. Then, if such fact finding warrants a arrest the case will go in front of a Grand Jury.

That is my point, the remark you made about no evidence. There is none. None to charge anyone, and none to clear anyones name. The girl dying really screwed any chance of finding out if what she said is true or not. We are just left with a ugly situation that will be fuel to irresponsible journalism, people developing their own scenarios, and a family that will have no closure and be left wondering.


The facts of the case are this: a girl with serious self esteem and anxiety issues put herself in a one-on-one situation with a guy. Something happened, she says it was an unwanted advance and he says it was consensual. There was no sex. After that it is fuzzy... but it seems like her anxiety issues caused her to take her life as the investigation was progressing.


The girls issues do not matter. Example, a hooker who working gets raped, if shes working or not, if she says "no stop" its still rape. Did the girl say no? What was the advance? Did he stick his fingers in her? Did he take off her shirt and touch her? Did he coerce her into it? Was she willing to participate? Was she drunk, and the next day embarrassed, so she cried assault? Did she have a boyfriend, and she was afraid he'd break up with her? Did she have some kind of issue with the player that she wanted revenge? There are so many questions that have to be taken in with sexual assault cases. I am not by any means saying the player did anything wrong. I just think a lot of those questions were not asked at the time they were supposed to be. And, by time flags were thrown by the family, that answers could not be gotten because Lizzy was dead. A thorough investigation from the start would have stopped this circus from the start.


I am not assuming anyone was guilty. As with the Duke case, a proper investigation did not take place, and look what you got. I just wish that all steps were followed because ND would not be in this mess. There would be little room left for ridiculous assumptions if all the evidence was gathered correctly. Now, we have are going to have ridiculous claims of conspiracy's, ND football cover ups, and ND damning articles by irresponsible tabloid journalists who represent credible media sources. It just flat out sucks.
 
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