Investigation Into Declan Sullivan's Death

[phgreek]

Notre Dame investigation will look at workplace safety rules - ESPN

Brian Kelly has made it clear that it was his decision to practice last Wednesday despite the weather warnings. However, we are going to have to wait until a lawsuit is filed or the results of the investigation are made public to know whos decision it was to send Declan into the scissor lift.

If it was Kelly's call handed down to their Video Coordinator, then there is no doubt in my mind that Kelly needs to step up and resign his position as Head Coach.

Someones head needs to roll over this act of negligence turned into a tragic event. Whether its Swarbrick or Kelly.

...actually this article makes it pretty clear to me Kelly is further from this than I thought...

"As a student worker, Sullivan reported to a video coordinator who oversees filming for the athletic department. Messages left at the home and office of coordinator Tim Collins were not immediately returned Friday."

The Athletic Department is owned by.....Jack Swarbrick, who manages Tim Collins, who managed Declan Sullivan.

It would appear Declan Sullivan was matrixed to the football program...

In my estimation Kelly and Co. would send Tim Collins their daily requests for Videography (i.e. what shots they needed) Tim would parse and send the student Videographers out.

Kelly deciding to practice has nothing to do with Videography safety policies and procedures...Nothing!

Kelly deciding to practice had nothing to do with Declan Sullivan's training, or lack thereof...Nothing!

Now, if Kelly told Tim Collins he'd get him fired or something, or if he himself ordered Sullivan up the lift ...I see the issue...but it appears thats not the case.

As well, I am guessing Tim Collins was not outside when the accident happened. He was probably cutting video or coordinating video for another program.

What you might find is the training was in place, the lift's maintenance was in order, the procedures were known...and the kid went up anyway.

Now what do you do?

We will know when the investigation is done...and it appears there is some confusion as to who should have ensured Declan Sullivan's safety training...so it may turn out heads will roll...but it isn't a necessity to conclude this investigation with that kind of activity.

 

[Jerry]

From what I've been reading (which is probably going on 30+ articles) I don't think Kelly has day to day command of the video department. I think there is standard protocol that offense, defense and special teams are filmed every day. So the team went about practice and the videographers went about filming and somebody probably should have said not to go up in these conditions.

 

[DomerBoy]

Only way Kelly is fired is if he directly ordered him up there despite having knowledge that the winds may topple the scissor lift.

 

[skipholtzplease]

It's nice to see that plausible deniability stills works pretty well.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...actually this article makes it pretty clear to me Kelly is further from this than I thought...

"As a student worker, Sullivan reported to a video coordinator who oversees filming for the athletic department. Messages left at the home and office of coordinator Tim Collins were not immediately returned Friday."

The Athletic Department is owned by.....Jack Swarbrick, who manages Tim Collins, who managed Declan Sullivan.

It would appear Declan Sullivan was matrixed to the football program...

In my estimation Kelly and Co. would send Tim Collins their daily requests for Videography (i.e. what shots they needed) Tim would parse and send the student Videographers out.

Kelly deciding to practice has nothing to do with Videography safety policies and procedures...Nothing!

Kelly deciding to practice had nothing to do with Declan Sullivan's training, or lack thereof...Nothing!

Now, if Kelly told Tim Collins he'd get him fired or something, or if he himself ordered Sullivan up the lift ...I see the issue...but it appears thats not the case.

As well, I am guessing Tim Collins was not outside when the accident happened. He was probably cutting video or coordinating video for another program.

What you might find is the training was in place, the lift's maintenance was in order, the procedures were known...and the kid went up anyway.

Now what do you do?

We will know when the investigation is done...and it appears there is some confusion as to who should have ensured Declan Sullivan's safety training...so it may turn out heads will roll...but it isn't a necessity to conclude this investigation with that kind of activity.

Thank you.

Moreover, who's to say Kelly even knew the safety limitations of these things? Has anyone ever heard of them blowing over? If anything, the fact that BK coached in the Mid-West for so long, without ever hearing of such an accident, obviates any potential negligence.

 

[kmoose]

How about we wait until there is enough information to reasonably determine for ourselves whose responsibility this was, before narrowing the options for the employment axe to just Brian Kelly and/or Jack Swarbrick?

 

[dskoo65]

The coach should quite because an accident happened that never occured before and there werent guidlines to direct the coach? get real please!

in law there is a reasonable person standard.

would a "reasonable person" think that in unusually high winds, having someone in a lift 40feet off the ground was dangerous. Kelly said at his post gamer that the winds werent anything he hasnt experienced many times before. that statement was a cover you a** statement, much as Swarbricks were, and has no credibility.

if nobody directed them to film in that wind and they just automatically went up, then likely no individual will be deemed as being negligent as far as being fired goes, but the university will be deemed as negligent for not having the proper safety checks in place for all weather situatoions.

forgetting the law, it wasnt reasonable to have a lift go up on a day like that. if anyone directed them to film that day, they should (and i expect will) be asked to resign/be fired.

it shouldnt matter whether it was the head coach or someone else.

the argument that "it wont bring Declan bacK", while true, holds no water. if that were the standard, nobody would ever be held accountable for any death resulting from negligence.

 

[skipholtzplease]

Thank you.

Moreover, who's to say Kelly even knew the safety limitations of these things? Has anyone ever heard of them blowing over? If anything, the fact that BK coached in the Mid-West for so long, without ever hearing of such an accident, obviates any potential negligence.

That these machines have printed wind limitations is pretty clear evidence that people have indeed "heard of them blowing over." At Colorado in 1996 a cameraman narrowly escaped death from such a fall. Potential negligence is very much an issue here. That the machine's wind limitations were nearly doubled on that day precludes this situation from being considered a "freak" accident.

 

[dskoo65]

From what I've been reading (which is probably going on 30+ articles) I don't think Kelly has day to day command of the video department. I think there is standard protocol that offense, defense and special teams are filmed every day. So the team went about practice and the videographers went about filming and somebody probably should have said not to go up in these conditions.

so doesnt that mean if a decision is made that there can be a "safe and productive practice" outdoors (as Kelly himself put it) that he knows they are going to film...not saying he and he alone is responsible....probably there were failures by multiple people.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Immature. But its to be expected online.

When you grow up, get married, have kids, and get a job where you are responsible for a staff then you would understand.

Pot calling the kettle...

And also when you grow up, you can get online and request that someone get fired or resign, even though you have ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS.

Because that's what mature people do.

Incidentally, there was a "situation" where a D1 college athlete died somewhat recently. The head coach himself changed the practice routine, and it is theorized the excessive workout led to the death. That coach is still coaching.

People who go rushing for someone's head, in a rush to judgement, over a situation they know nothing about and have no stake in the situation whatsoever are the troublemakers.

 

[NankerPhelge]

Pot calling the kettle...

And also when you grow up, you can get online and request that someone get fired or resign, even though you have ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS.

Because that's what mature people do.

Incidentally, there was a "situation" where a D1 college athlete died somewhat recently. The head coach himself changed the practice routine, and it is theorized the excessive workout led to the death. That coach is still coaching.

People who go rushing for someone's head, in a rush to judgement, over a situation they know nothing about and have no stake in the situation whatsoever are the troublemakers.[/QUOTE]

This is the most sensible thing that has been said on this idiotic thread, and should be the final word before it is shut down.

 

[Stoic]

How about ND gives a scholarship out in the name of Declan Sullivan in vediography.. The Declan Sullivan scholarship fund. That's best way let somebody be known forever..

 

[johnnykillz]

Wow. How about no, "I Don't Miss Charlie"...

WTF?

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[TerryTate]

Where the hell were you guys earlier today when this &(*# was posting?


You take work way too seriously.

 

[tko]

Where the hell were you guys earlier today when this &(*# was posting?


You take work way too seriously.

you need to go back and manage your people, LOLOL

 

[IrishInFl]

I'll tell you what's going on... IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!1!

 

[Stoic]

Where the hell were you guys earlier today when this &(*# was posting?


You take work way too seriously.

Well we don't have the luxury of floating in a pool all day, basking in the warm weather with laptop in lap drinking a mojito..

 

[TerryTate]

you need to go back and manage your people, LOLOL

Well we don't have the luxury of floating in a pool all day, basking in the warm weather with laptop in lap drinking a mojito..

LMAO - if only I were so lucky.

 

[TDHeysus]

If the shift manager was on duty and passed down an order to the head of cart retrieval to send his employee into a parking lot in the midst of a thunderstorm to collect metal shopping carts, then the responsibility for the death falls on the shift manager.

If the shift manager wasn't present and the head of cart retrieval made that decision for his employee then he would be held responsible. Or better yet if the shift manager told the head of cart retrieval to tell his employee to remain inside, and the head of cart retrieval went against his order and sent his employee outside. Then he would be held responsible.

Thats typically the way it works.

I want to split hairs here, please bare with me. Im not taking his side at all. However,

I believe his above scenario is how the real world works. Its how I understand it to be, and its how I've seen it done in the past. By no means do I agree with it, matter of fact, I hate it. But there is truth in the above scenario. As far as how blame gets placed, and who gets that blame.

splitting the hairs:
I have no idea how this fits into this tragedy over the death of Declan Sullivan. I have no clue if BK will be implemented in this or not. But you can bet, someone is getting fired. its might the low man on the totem pole and you never hear about it, or it might go to someone 'bigger' but someone will lose their job. thats just the way corporate is. In the corporate world, if no one gets fired, its almost like nothing was done about it. Again I dont agree, its just the way it is.

(a little off topic, but another example of corporate BS)

"If it looks bad, it is bad." (no matter how good it really is.)

that is another hard one for me to get past. I have seen good, effective programs scrapped because some 'corporate' person didnt like the way something looked, even when the program was producing results. I have seen effective programs, replaced for ineffective programs and it makes no sense. I rationalize this in my head by reminding myself, "thats the way they want it."

it wont ever make sense to me, but I do understand thats is how the game is played.

 

[Stoic]

LMAO - if only I were so lucky.

I guess that's my fantasy..

YouTube - Mojito

 

[TerryTate]

I guess tat my fantasy..

YouTube - Mojito

Once the weather gets above 70, I pound mojitos

 

[PapaIrish37]

TT - sorry, I was at work all day but someone has to earn the money to buy all those GE products to support you, your salary and all those minions of yours - LOL.

Call me a homer but enjoyed reading this on the Notre Dame Go Irish blog:

NOTRE DAME GO IRISH BLOG -- A NOTRE DAME BLOG: The University of Notre Dame -- An Easy Target

What everyone needs to do is wait until more info is known. We know little right now. ND will do the right thing. Until the investigation is done and it is released any speculation (or accusations or assumptions) are ill founded at best and malicious at worst.

We should all say a prayer for Declan, his family, his friends and ALL who have been impacted by this tragedy.

 

[IrishLax]

It's funny I just got out to Tucson where I am doing tower work on the border. I was talking to our resident tower expert yesterday and he said he 100% blamed the kid and that if it was a regular employee and, unless he was ordered under threat of losing his job to go onto the left after raising concern, all of the responsibility lies with him.

Granted, this guy is ex-military, has been doing this kind of work for 30 years and has lost two fingers to tower climbing and has seen multiple horrific accidents/deaths so maybe he is a little jaded. But he is also an absolute expert on this kind of thing.

He also said that most scissor lifts have an alarm that goes off when they are swaying too much and that operators are supposed to obey that tip alarm. Just some food for thought for everyone so quick to blame people in this society.

 

[TerryTate]

It's funny I just got out to Tucson where I am doing tower work on the border. I was talking to our resident tower expert yesterday and he said he 100% blamed the kid and that if it was a regular employee and, unless he was ordered under threat of losing his job to go onto the left after raising concern, all of the responsibility lies with him.

Granted, this guy is ex-military, has been doing this kind of work for 30 years and has lost two fingers to tower climbing and has seen multiple horrific accidents/deaths so maybe he is a little jaded. But he is also an absolute expert on this kind of thing.

He also said that most scissor lifts have an alarm that goes off when they are swaying too much and that operators are supposed to obey that tip alarm. Just some food for thought for everyone so quick to blame people in this society.

Whoa, what the hell do you do?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

F off

Hey Terry, where do we get this kind of crap from? I've been away a couple of days, and come back to this? Lets just sit around and have a conversation about whether we should bench Dayne Crist!

 

[TerryTate]

Hey Terry, where do we get this kind of crap from? I've been away a couple of days, and come back to this? Lets just sit around and have a conversation about whether we should bench Dayne Crist!

What did I do wrong?

 

[IrishLax]

Whoa, what the hell do you do?

A lot of what I do is classified but I took a job out of school doing engineering for a small government contractor. We recently finished working on the Secure Border Initiative and right now I am doing structural inspection of the remote video surveillance tower network in the Tucson Sector.

 

[TerryTate]

A lot of what I do is classified but I took a job out of school doing engineering for a small government contractor. We recently finished working on the Secure Border Initiative and right now I am doing structural inspection of the remote video surveillance tower network in the Tucson Sector.

Sounds sweet. Xe-type stuff, haha.

I don't like heights though...

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogtrotter07
Hey Terry, where do we get this kind of crap from? I've been away a couple of days, and come back to this? Lets just sit around and have a conversation about whether we should bench Dayne Crist!

What did I do wrong?

Dear Terry,

I reread what I wrote, and have no excuse for the ambiguous nature of my posting. I certainly can see how you may have taken it as a slam to your comment. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact you are and have been in my opinion one of the most levelheaded posters I have known.

It may have helped if I said "Right On!" first, to your comment, and something derogatory about the thesis behind the whole thread. I was tired, just back from the hospital; yet that is no excuse. What I was trying to say was, "this thread is crap, and I agreed with your statement." And boy, did that come out wrong!

Here is my deal: people are writing threads doubting the qb, and most of the skilled players, the head coach, and the defensive coordination, the AD and just about everyone and everything else; like these individuals have all have all of the answers, like they know more, or could do better in the current situation. It's all speculation, drama, or BS leading to more controversy. The pinnacle is to try to hang BK out for the terrible tragedy. I cannot see how any fan could do that without all of the facts in or even known.

If I have a further point, it is that free speech is great, mindless drivel is something else! Thanks for jumping in and sticking up for the good guys! Sorry about my kluge.

Sincerely,

BT

PS Oh, yeah, and thanks for asking me what I meant before you jumped into a personal tirade against me for my lame post!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Sounds sweet. Xe-type stuff, haha.

I don't like heights though...

Yeah, you might fall off the ladder dropping sombody.