What if CW Hadn't Been Fired?

[IrishJayhawk]

Kansas City would be 0-7

Not true. They are better because of him, but they have also totally bought into Haley this year. More than that, Romeo has completely changed the defense.

Charlie is good at his current job, no doubt. But, KC took their major steps last year, added McCluster and Thomas Jones, and have Jamal Charles with a year of experience.

 

[Junkhead]

Charlie Weis was a joke. His non emotional attitude got under my skin. He was so "ho-hum" and that infected his team and everyone was just used to losing. Does anyone remember the dismal 2007 season? He was not a head coach. The only thing he had going for him was one hand was slightly heavier than the other. I was glad to see him go.

I have to agree here. There are plenty of growing pains at the moment, and sadly they feel like an extension of the Weis years. Maybe once our players are in shape year-in/year-out, the injuries won't be so bad. I have been as disappointed in this season as anyone, but no way do I want Weis back. Good guy, not a head coach.

 

[PapaIrish37]

I understand the premise...

But, at this point for the most important part of that question (for me), it is too early to tell.

I was a CW supporter - didn't get on IE until they were looking for his replacement.

However, the thing that bothered me most the last couple of years was the way the team seemed to fold in November. I hate to say it but the players were soft and when the going got tough it seemed that CW lost the team other than a few of the inner circle (Jimmy, etc.).

So, for me it is too early to telll or draw conclusions. With 2 of the last 3 we have to play (and I am not even putting the 3rd in the W column yet), the injuries and the events of the last week it is going to be a huge uphill climb.

If the team still looks like the FIGHTING IRISH come December 1, regardless of the outcomes of the games, they may have taken a step forward. If not, even if we win 1 or even 2 of the last 3 this may have been a mostly wasted year except for a hopefully good recruiting one.

I think and hope BK is the right guy and we are getting a statue ready for him by a gate 10 - 15 years from now. If I said I was sure I knew that was going to happen - I would have used that crystal ball by now to build a huge fortune and ND would be naming some building after me in recognition of the $ I had sent their way.

In the meantime, I give BK and the team all of my support - GO IRISH!

 

[irishfan]

Well, if Weis had kept Corwin Brown at DC, we probably would have been in a BCS bowl last year, and absolute worst we would be 6-3 right now with or without Clausen and Tate. The defensive recruiting was turning around with Weis, no doubt about it. I think even with Tenuta at DC and no Clausen/Tate we would be above .500 right now. I'm happy we have Kelly, but I think Weis would have eventually turned this thing around.

 

[Rack Em]

Keep in mind that if Weis had stayed, Jon Tenuta would still be the Defensive Coordinator.

And we'd still be running ineffective blitz packages like 98562958270 times a game...

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Keep in mind that if Weis had stayed, Jon Tenuta would still be the Defensive Coordinator.

And we'd still be running ineffective blitz packages like 98562958270 times a game...

And you know this.....How???

 

[Junkhead]

Weis was a lame duck head coach. This thread is testament to how bad the past few weeks have been. Weis maybe would have a similar record at this point (no change of systems/ coaches), but Kelly is a much better head coach than Weis. It hasn't show much lately, but I can't believe this is even an issue.

 

[johnnykillz]

lol.

No issue brother. Only coulda woulda shouldas. BK is our man of the hour. I just think Weis wasn't so bad. He wasn't the problem.

I pray Kelly doesn't prove my statement testament.

 

[Honey Nut Irish]

I think conservatively one could say we would have at least one more win to this point, most likely 2, even maybe 3 more.

That being said, it was time for Charlie to go. But oh how I miss the pro-style offense!

 

[IrishBoy]

There is one thing I don't get. When Weis was hired, he had no head coaching experience prior to Notre Dame. We know what happened in 2007 so let's put that aside, 2005-2006 and 2008-2009, Weis team performed better than current Kelly's team. Weis' team showed a lot of fight. I don't see that now from Notre Dame. I expect Notre Dame to play well even thought we know they may make mistakes due to Kelly's first year. I see the team have no fire and look lost when they get on the field. It didn't happen under Weis. It's either these players are wrong for Kelly, because it does not fit into his system or they lost faith in Kelly. Yelling at his players is getting old. Top recruits will worry if they come to Notre Dame, will Kelly yell at them? If Notre Dame needs a lot of great recruits, they better come up with a lot better than yelling. I would rather to play for a coach who likes to motivate his players and positive attitude knowing we make mistake than play for a coach who screams all the time. Boring.

 

[irishandy]

Weis could recruit and that's all he could do. The biggest difference between Weis and Kelly is that Kelly has experience in college coaching where Weis didn't and Kelly is a proven winner at his prior jobs. I too support Kelly and the fanbase will have to give him time and patience. Although I do miss the pro style offense.

 

[IrishinSyria]

A coach can only do so much. It's the players who actually play. I think they would've been much better prepared for this season under Weis (we would have gone to a bowl: 15 extra practices right there. Same system on offense would have eliminated a lot of growing pains, etc...). Moving forward, Kelly can rebound, but there is no question the firing of CW set ND back at least a year. Sometimes you need to step back to spring forward, the open question is whether or not Kelly can be that slingshot.

 

[IrishBoy]

I agree i miss the pro style offense.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Weis could recruit and that's all he could do. The biggest difference between Weis and Kelly is that Kelly has experience in college coaching where Weis didn't and Kelly is a proven winner at his prior jobs. I too support Kelly and the fanbase will have to give him time and patience. Although I do miss the pro style offense.

Right. Weis had absolutely 0 success in any aspect of the game except for recruiting...


Does anyone remember 2004???? ANYBODY!

 

[phork]

BTW, the only reason I say Charlie would have been 8-4 is the fact his personnel are here and versed. Pro style recruits. Big run blocking juicy's...

And that also figures in a healthy Rudy, and Floyd. Now if Clausen and Tate would have stayed for their senior years, then we would have taken it all this year.

To be fair to BK, this isn't his personnel and they don't have the repetitions we needed.

If Weis would have had Diaco, we would have won 6 NCs by now.

And we would have run at least 60 - 100 screens this season.

6NCs? Err the defensive personnel is mediocre at best. I doubt Saban could whip these guys into a championship D.

I want CW back...Never wanted him gone.

Sorry about your luck.

The only thing I think would be different is that we would have beaten Tulsa. I think the rest would have played out the same. Maybe Dayne would have looked a lot better. The D would have been just as **** poor, maybe worse. Remember, what Charlie couldn't do was develop any player not a WR or QB. So, no change with the other players.

What he said.

 

[blnewcomer]

There is one thing I don't get. When Weis was hired, he had no head coaching experience prior to Notre Dame. We know what happened in 2007 so let's put that aside, 2005-2006 and 2008-2009, Weis team performed better than current Kelly's team. Weis' team showed a lot of fight. I don't see that now from Notre Dame. I expect Notre Dame to play well even thought we know they may make mistakes due to Kelly's first year. I see the team have no fire and look lost when they get on the field. It didn't happen under Weis. It's either these players are wrong for Kelly, because it does not fit into his system or they lost faith in Kelly. Yelling at his players is getting old. Top recruits will worry if they come to Notre Dame, will Kelly yell at them? If Notre Dame needs a lot of great recruits, they better come up with a lot better than yelling. I would rather to play for a coach who likes to motivate his players and positive attitude knowing we make mistake than play for a coach who screams all the time. Boring.

We have no idea the kind of relationship Brian Kelly has with his players. They may seem to disrespect him on the field when he is jawing down their throats but as I've said before, we don't know the extent of those confrontations. Other aspects to think about are the fact that these players are young and probably do not know how to deal with his fiery passion when it comes to positive reinforcement. I love his fire, his attitude, and his passion. It shows me he's got what it takes to coach this team the way they so badly need to be coached. I don't feel bad for those players getting screamed at. Coach Kelly is giving them all the resources they need to win. If a play isn't executed they way it was drawn up because one player took that play off or made a bonehead mistake, Kelly has every right to get on them. That's his right as head coach of the football team. I enjoy reading his lips and trying to figure out what he's saying. I find it humorous.

If "great" recruits are steered away from Notre Dame because the coach likes to yell alot then I don't want them here. That means they don't have the passion and fire it takes to win football games.

 

[jason_h537]

Hmmm, if Weis were here, we would probably have a better offense and would likely have a better record right now. Weis still needed to fix that D and his teams had a way of falling apart.

I still think it is too soon to question Kelly's job, and i wasn't a Kelly guy when we were looking for a coach.

 

[IrishBoy]

A coach can only do so much. It's the players who actually play. I think they would've been much better prepared for this season under Weis (we would have gone to a bowl: 15 extra practices right there. Same system on offense would have eliminated a lot of growing pains, etc...). Moving forward, Kelly can rebound, but there is no question the firing of CW set ND back at least a year. Sometimes you need to step back to spring forward, the open question is whether or not Kelly can be that slingshot.

You made a point. We have to wonder if Kelly's system really work for Notre Dame or not. Let's see how things unfold. It's evident that Weis players are not adjusted well into Kelly's offense. It remains to be seen, but if that's the case, we will not be talking about a National Championship for another 5 years or more when Kelly gets his own players. It takes time to turn things around. This is why we had to make sure if we had to fire Weis. He may need one or two more years to talk about National Championship whereas Kelly needs at least 5 years. This is why I think Notre Dame should have kept Weis for one more year. Why didn't Kelly stay with Cincinnati when they played against Florida before he went to Notre Dame? Is it because he didn't want Florida to expose his offense? I am not sure.

 

[IrishinSyria]

You made a point. We have to wonder if Kelly's system really work for Notre Dame or not. Let's see how things unfold. It's evident that Weis players are not adjusted well into Kelly's offense. It remains to be seen, but if that's the case, we will not be talking about a National Championship for another 5 years or more when Kelly gets his own players. It takes time to turn things around. This is why we had to make sure if we had to fire Weis. He may need one or two more years to talk about National Championship whereas Kelly needs at least 5 years. This is why I think Notre Dame should have kept Weis for one more year. Why didn't Kelly stay with Cincinnati when they played against Florida before he went to Notre Dame? Is it because he didn't want Florida to expose his offense? I am not sure.

Honestly, no time frame is big enough to schedule a NC anymore. Weis, Saban, Chip Kelly, Brian Kelly, it doesn't matter...ND should be aiming for 2-3 BCS appearances every 5 years (assuming BCS rules stay favorable towards the Irish). In the era of limited scholarships and players who are scared of the classroom, ND's no longer going to be the favorite in every game it plays more than once a decade or so.

 

[Rocket89]

I'll say this....if Charlie Weis' QB goes down early in a game, the Irish don't move the ball the rest of the game.

Just picture 2008-09 with all of the injuries the team is facing right now.

 

[irish1958]

Pro style offense means a good rum is 3 yards and a great run is 5 yards. A good offensive line is 350# per man and forms a pocket to keep the defensive line off the QB. A great running back is one who picks up the blitz and can get maybe 4 yards a try about half the time. All you need is a couple of receivers and a great QB with lead feet and a quick release. If you like this style, watch the NFL and any of those 32 teams. Talk about being boring!!!
In the pros great defense has five mammoth linemen (for rotation), one great pass rusher, and a strong secondary.
Did anybody see Auburn or Oregon play this week? Or
Ohio State, or Nebraska? Or watch any of the BCS games in the past several years?
Pro style offensives suck in college football. Open, spread, quick QBs, fast defensive players, quick offensive linemen who can open a few holes for a quick (not necessarily fast) TB, etc.
Kelly's problem is he has players recruited for Weis' pro style offense with no particular interest in defensive players (with one exception). His O-line cannot run block, his defensive ends cannot contain anything (how many times did Tulsa run abound end?) and his line backers cannot cover the pass (how many times did Tulsa throw a short crossing pass?). His receivers cannot separate (Tate and Floyd made a living on jump balls in tight coverage, not in getting open). The only two great receivers Kelly has are out (Kyle and Theo) and the only TB who can pick up and block the blitz is out.
Kelly cannot say any of this without throwing his players under the bus. But these are the problems.
If Weis were here we would be condemned to more of the same. He is back to where he is very good; he was a terrible college head coach and his last two years (with mainly his players) were worse that his first three (with players Ty recruited).
His two QBs are not burning up the NFL. Golden isn't so great in the NFL. How many offensive or defensive linemen from his teams are in the NFL. Holtz sent two or three every year. How many corner backs from ND are in the NFL? The only pass rusher is Tuck and Weis didn't recruit him.
With Kelly, ND has a chance to be good or great in college football; with Weis there was no hope.

 

[CanadianIrish]

His two QBs are not burning up the NFL. Golden isn't so great in the NFL. How many offensive or defensive linemen from his teams are in the NFL. Holtz sent two or three every year. How many corner backs from ND are in the NFL? The only pass rusher is Tuck and Weis didn't recruit him.
With Kelly, ND has a chance to be good or great in college football; with Weis there was no hope.

His two QBs play for god awful teams, and Golden's team isn't much better. He actually has several lineman playing the NFL, Olsen and Young were drafted last year.

Two of the three leading players for sacks in the NFL went to Western Michigan and Troy. Does that mean their coaches are amazing? David Garrard is third in the league in passer rating, should we try to get East Caroline's coach from nine years ago so that we can mold our young QBs?

Sorry, Weis didn't perform, but that argument is ridiculous.

 

[DCirishfan]

BTW, the only reason I say Charlie would have been 8-4 is the fact his personnel are here and versed. Pro style recruits. Big run blocking juicy's...

And that also figures in a healthy Rudy, and Floyd. Now if Clausen and Tate would have stayed for their senior years, then we would have taken it all this year.

To be fair to BK, this isn't his personnel and they don't have the repetitions we needed.

If Weis would have had Diaco, we would have won 6 NCs by now.

And we would have run at least 60 - 100 screens this season.

And fades from the one yard line.

 

[DCirishfan]

Pro style offense means a good rum is 3 yards and a great run is 5 yards. A good offensive line is 350# per man and forms a pocket to keep the defensive line off the QB. A great running back is one who picks up the blitz and can get maybe 4 yards a try about half the time. All you need is a couple of receivers and a great QB with lead feet and a quick release. If you like this style, watch the NFL and any of those 32 teams. Talk about being boring!!!
In the pros great defense has five mammoth linemen (for rotation), one great pass rusher, and a strong secondary.
Did anybody see Auburn or Oregon play this week? Or
Ohio State, or Nebraska? Or watch any of the BCS games in the past several years?
Pro style offensives suck in college football. Open, spread, quick QBs, fast defensive players, quick offensive linemen who can open a few holes for a quick (not necessarily fast) TB, etc.
Kelly's problem is he has players recruited for Weis' pro style offense with no particular interest in defensive players (with one exception). His O-line cannot run block, his defensive ends cannot contain anything (how many times did Tulsa run abound end?) and his line backers cannot cover the pass (how many times did Tulsa throw a short crossing pass?). His receivers cannot separate (Tate and Floyd made a living on jump balls in tight coverage, not in getting open). The only two great receivers Kelly has are out (Kyle and Theo) and the only TB who can pick up and block the blitz is out.
Kelly cannot say any of this without throwing his players under the bus. But these are the problems.
If Weis were here we would be condemned to more of the same. He is back to where he is very good; he was a terrible college head coach and his last two years (with mainly his players) were worse that his first three (with players Ty recruited).
His two QBs are not burning up the NFL. Golden isn't so great in the NFL. How many offensive or defensive linemen from his teams are in the NFL. Holtz sent two or three every year. How many corner backs from ND are in the NFL? The only pass rusher is Tuck and Weis didn't recruit him.
With Kelly, ND has a chance to be good or great in college football; with Weis there was no hope.

Best post of the week

 

[The Polish Irishman]

Does everyone forget that CW called B. Smith the best player on the defense last year?

 

[Rocket89]

His two QBs play for god awful teams, and Golden's team isn't much better. He actually has several lineman playing the NFL, Olsen and Young were drafted last year.

Two of the three leading players for sacks in the NFL went to Western Michigan and Troy. Does that mean their coaches are amazing? David Garrard is third in the league in passer rating, should we try to get East Caroline's coach from nine years ago so that we can mold our young QBs?

Sorry, Weis didn't perform, but that argument is ridiculous.

I rather liked his argument. I thought it was pretty solid.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

If CW hadn't been fired the Chiefs would suck!

 

[timm3117]

If Charlie was still here we would be an average team, like we were the 5 years we had him.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

I would have another season of telling my son its not ok to walk around with snot hanging from ur nose

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Kelly's offense will work when he gets his pieces, and I believe, will be night and day next season. They'll still lose a few games here and there because it's going to take until 2012 for the defense to catch up. They'll win 8 games next year.

CW was a terrible headcoach, how can you say his teams showed fight? what games were you watching? This team has known how to do nothing but lose for years.

No team is going to win 4 or 5 titles a decade. SC was the team from 2000-2006, then Florida was unbelievable for the last 5 seasons, and brought the hardware twice. But as soon as there 1 in a million difference maker leaves (Tebow/Bush/Leinert) they fall off. They won't win another title for awhile. Bama will have a 5 year run where they will compete in 1 more at least. Then be good, but not great, and another team will take over.

I do not see ND being able to maintain 5 to 6 year trends where they finish in the top 10 3 times, and top 5 3 times. But I do see them being in the top 25 7/8 years a decade, finishing in the top 15 4 or 5 years. Top 10 2 or 3 years. And top 5 2 times a decade, and playing for a title once.