Grass Length at ND Stadium

mgriff

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University of Notre Dame Official Athletic Site

Here's a little change of topic for you IE. One of the first statements out of Jack Nolan's mouth was that the field is cut pretty short, with a little hand gesture that made the comparisons to the Weis era rather apparent, in my view at least. I've heard explanations that they had to keep the grass long because of the harsh environment and that it was Charlie trying to negate other teams' speed. I think, if Charlie did it intentionally, that it was a bonehead move. Hurting other teams speed negates our speed. Now I know some of you will argue we have no speed, but that's bullshit. We have players with speed and I cannot imagine while Charlie would want to keep it long because he hurt us as well. So what do you think IE--was it legitimately weather, or was it done intentionally, and if so, why, because it harmed our team's speed as well?
 

Irish_Angst

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I always thought the grass was longer because Kentucky Blue Grass (or Poa, if you will... and you will) needed to be to stay healthy.

But, as usual, I'm probably wrong and Poa was a ploya to slow down the playaz.

(Man... I need to go to bed)
 

BGIF

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University of Notre Dame Official Athletic Site

Here's a little change of topic for you IE. One of the first statements out of Jack Nolan's mouth was that the field is cut pretty short, with a little hand gesture that made the comparisons to the Weis era rather apparent, in my view at least. I've heard explanations that they had to keep the grass long because of the harsh environment and that it was Charlie trying to negate other teams' speed. I think, if Charlie did it intentionally, that it was a bonehead move. Hurting other teams speed negates our speed. Now I know some of you will argue we have no speed, but that's bullshit. We have players with speed and I cannot imagine while Charlie would want to keep it long because he hurt us as well. So what do you think IE--was it legitimately weather, or was it done intentionally, and if so, why, because it harmed our team's speed as well?


Ground crews have been doing this for a century at least in baseball. Wetting down the field, adjusting the grass height, etc. to negate speed. Others teams complain about but do the same thing. Some teams would raise or lower the height of the center of the field to their advantage (Running downhill).

Don't know how much of a factor it is or if it's more of a head game. MBeckha probably wrote a paper on it.

We did have players with speed but '05 Southern Cal had a hell of a lot more than we did. The gap is closing but they should still have a speed edge.
 

dshans

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I say we refer any and all grass related questions to GO IRISH and NDOM.
 

BGIF

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I say we refer any and all grass related questions to GO IRISH and NDOM.

They'd have the field looking like that 25 acre burning golf course.


I can see GO IRISH on one side of the stadium leading a cheer,

INHALE


while NDOM is on the other side of the stadium responding AFTER the NBC TV timeout with a volley cheer of

EXHALE


Might get everybody on their feet.

And sell a lot of nachos.



The Indiana Excise Police would be waiting outside the stadium with 1600 buses to take everybody downtown for processing.
 
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tankjeep

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They'd have the field looking like that 25 acre burning golf course.


I can see GO IRISH on one side of the stadium leading a cheer,

INHALE


while NDOM is on the other side of the stadium responding AFTER the NBC TV timeout with a volley cheer of

EXHALE


Might get everybody on their feet.

And sell a lot of nachos.



The Indiana Excise Police would be waiting outside the stadium with 1600 buses to take everybody downtown for processing.



that's funny right there......
 

DirtySecret

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This is a hybrid. This is a cross, ah, of Bluegrass, Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia. The amazing stuff about this is, that you can play 36 holes on it in the afternoon, take it home and just get stoned to the bejeezus-belt that night on this stuff.
 

Rocket89

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I wrote a long piece on this during the offseason. I'm a proponent of putting in field turf. I believe ND has the money to properly maintain it (you see a lot of H.S. injuries on field turf because those schools don't have large enough budgets to maintain the surfaces) and for the vast majority of people (especially watching on TV) you can't tell it's not "real" grass.

It's been a highly debatable issue as to why ND's field has been such a mess in recent years. Honestly, no one but the maintenance crew probably knows for sure.

My guess was that at some point bad turf was laid down, and once you go through that whole process and you realize it's more or less a failure, you can either keep it or drop hundreds of thousands of dollars to rip it out and start over. In most cases, time is an issue if you want to start over.

The exact same scenario happened at Ohio State a few years ago. They went to put in natural grass and the sod was terrible, so they ripped it out and installed FieldTurf.

The other issue is what happened during the stadium renovation. We know they put state of the art draining pipes and all that good stuff underneath the ground. But that was over 15 years ago, before people had cell phones, so I think the technology available today has made leaps and bounds in this department.

As far as I know, they have not upgraded the pipes and drainage system, but I could be wrong. I've said if we're not going to put in 100% FieldTurf, then we should adopt the Lambeau Field model.

They currently redesigned their drainage systems underground with the best technology available and went with the a hyrbid turf that is something like 97% real grass with 3% synthetic fibres to keep the field strong, yet give the same characteristics of a natural surface.

I think this should be a definite option for Notre Dame. You'll notices that a lot of the NFL teams that have "grass" surfaces are actually using these hybrid surfaces. Denver and Pittsburgh are two that come to mind.

I believe that there are only a very small amount of teams in the colder areas of the country still using 100% natural grass. The Bears, Browns, Penn State, UConn and of course Notre Dame are just about the only ones left.

I think it's largely true that they have grown the grass out a little longer at ND Stadium because the Kentucky Blue Grass that is not a particularly strong species and is easily killed, more or less. Check out the corner of the end zone near the tunnel where everyone walks sometime during the season, you'll notice it has turned into mostly dirt with just a very thin layer of grass.

But if you grow out the grass longer, the field gets sloppy in the form of huge divots (we've all seen those) and the longer grass is not condusive to planting and changing directions (Kamara vs. USC??). Then again, with the grass short, we run the risk of the field becoming thin and dirt-like, or if it rains, incredibly muddy...not really a better situation.

Interestingly, Purdue is one of the only teams in the colder regions of the country to use Bermuda grass. They also have the Prescription Athletic Turf (which they invented in 1974) which is known as the best draining system out there.

You would think ND would have this system in place, but as far as I know, we do not. Even though the Bears use real grass, they have the PAT underneath. So do a bunch of other NFL teams and Michigan, Ohio State and Iowa in college.

Whatever happens, it seems that ND Stadium needs an upgrade of some sort, whether it be putting in a new high-tech drainage system, the PAT, or using hyrbid grass, or going full FieldTurf.
 

IrishGiant

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Ground crews have been doing this for a century at least in baseball. Wetting down the field, adjusting the grass height, etc. to negate speed. Others teams complain about but do the same thing. Some teams would raise or lower the height of the center of the field to their advantage (Running downhill).

Don't know how much of a factor it is or if it's more of a head game. MBeckha probably wrote a paper on it.

We did have players with speed but '05 Southern Cal had a hell of a lot more than we did. The gap is closing but they should still have a speed edge.

Indeed they have. It wouldn't surprise me if teams do this in the NCAA's. The Giants had natural grass at Giants Stadium in the late 90's to early 00's and it turned to a muddy quagmire by the end of the 1st quarter. Opposing teams used to hate coming to NY, especially the skill teams. The Giants didn't care as they have always been built on strong defense, and a power running game. When the Giants won the 2000 NFC Championship Game the late great Wellington Mara even called it a "Field of painted mud". While the Giants didn't switch to grass to intentionally gain an advantage (so they say), it had a desirable side effect.
 

mgriff

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Rocket89,
That was the kind of response I was looking for. Thanks very much.
 

Irish_Angst

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This is a hybrid. This is a cross, ah, of Bluegrass, Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia. The amazing stuff about this is, that you can play 36 holes on it in the afternoon, take it home and just get stoned to the bejeezus-belt that night on this stuff.

Outstanding.

+1
 

GO IRISH!!!

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They'd have the field looking like that 25 acre burning golf course.


I can see GO IRISH on one side of the stadium leading a cheer,

INHALE


while NDOM is on the other side of the stadium responding AFTER the NBC TV timeout with a volley cheer of

EXHALE


Might get everybody on their feet.

And sell a lot of nachos.



The Indiana Excise Police would be waiting outside the stadium with 1600 buses to take everybody downtown for processing.

Oh, there are just so many possibilities for this one! Me and NDOM leading cheers would be awesome!

"WE GOT CHRONIC YES WE DO, WE GOT CHRONIC HOW 'BOUT YOU?!?"

Instead of highlights on the jumbo tron we would just show Always Sunny In Philadelphia episodes.
 

tommyIRISH23

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I think Weis bought into the possibility that it slowed down opponents. The man was "too matter of fact", he never had any hope/trust/belief in anything that was outside of his control. He did not have faith in anyone but himself, in hindsight..he really contradicted many of the things ND embodies..myths, legends..etc

Kelly seems like he gets it. He is a blend of toughness, and appreciation for what ND is. He is not a willingham who soley believed that ND would recruit and coach itself.
 

irishtrain

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I think kelly is saying i dont care how fast you are WE are going to be faster.
 

mjbirish

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I think Weis bought into the possibility that it slowed down opponents. The man was "too matter of fact", he never had any hope/trust/belief in anything that was outside of his control. He did not have faith in anyone but himself, in hindsight..he really contradicted many of the things ND embodies..myths, legends..etc

Kelly seems like he gets it. He is a blend of toughness, and appreciation for what ND is. He is not a willingham who soley believed that ND would recruit and coach itself.

AMEN!!!
 

phgreek

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I think kelly is saying i dont care how fast you are WE are going to be faster.

Agree...its kinda the John Wooden Philosophy of focusing on the things you can control, being the best YOU can be, and playing your game...because of that philiosophy he didn't spend alot of time scouting...he spent it on developing his guys in his system.
 

BGIF

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Agree...its kinda the John Wooden Philosophy of focusing on the things you can control, being the best YOU can be, and playing your game...because of that philiosophy he didn't spend alot of time scouting...he spent it on developing his guys in his system.

Wooden didn't have to spend time scouting. He had the best talent money could buy. Year after year after year.
 

RyCo1983

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This is a hybrid. This is a cross, ah, of Bluegrass, Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia. The amazing stuff about this is, that you can play 36 holes on it in the afternoon, take it home and just get stoned to the bejeezus-belt that night on this stuff.

WELL PLAYED!
I love me some Caddyshack
 

phgreek

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Wooden didn't have to spend time scouting. He had the best talent money could buy. Year after year after year.

...just going off what the man has said and written about his approach/philosophy...he claims, and gets alot of credit for developing players...I'm always interested in coaches who win...however, B-ball is just not something I care enough about to go beyond what the guy says he did to win...if you say he cheated...well, I'm certainly not the guy to refute it.
 

BGIF

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...just going off what the man has said and written about his approach/philosophy...he claims, and gets alot of credit for developing players...I'm always interested in coaches who win...however, B-ball is just not something I care enough about to go beyond what the guy says he did to win...if you say he cheated...well, I'm certainly not the guy to refute it.

There was a documentary done on it. I've seen it. Shocked me. There was a UCLA booster (Gilbert) that that made the Fab 5 small peanuts. UCLA players were bought for more than a decade. Wooden denied any knowledge of the payments.

Here's a small piece on it from his wikipedia file. The footnotes at that site like investigative articles from a half dozen major papers across the country on the subject.

Wooden's comments on his "lack of knowledge" are similar to Pete Carroll's over Bush. A major difference is that UCLA's extra benefits weren't for a single player but extended over a decade for a PROGRAM.

And Digger stopped 2 of his streaks with real student athletes.

John Wooden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Criticism of Wooden with regard to his stewardship of the UCLA basketball program has most often focused on his failure to investigate or curtail his players' involvement with Sam Gilbert, a UCLA booster who was a prominent figure in the players' circle in the late 1960's and throughout the 1970s.[44][45][46][47] A 1981 investigation by the Los Angeles Times found that Gilbert had regularly arranged to procure items such as automobiles, clothing and airline tickets for UCLA players, and in so doing, apparently committed numerous violations of NCAA regulations.[48][49][45] The investigation did not uncover evidence that Wooden had explicit personal awareness of Gilbert's activities.[45] However, Gilbert's overall influence in the lives of the players was so well-known,[50] the Times reporters concluded that if Wooden was not cognizant of the specifics of Gilbert's favors for players, it was only because Wooden made no effort to discover those details.[45][51]

For his part, Wooden acknowledged that he had always felt uneasy about Gilbert's relationship with the players, but steadfastly denied having knowledge at the time of anything done by Gilbert that was in violation of NCAA regulations.[45][46][52][53] He also asserted that both he and UCLA athletic director J.D. Morgan had advised players to steer clear of Gilbert, but that ultimately they could not control the players' or Gilbert's actions.[54] Given what later came to light, however, Wooden granted that he may have had "tunnel vision"[52][45] and that he perhaps "trusted too much". Nonetheless, Wooden said that his "conscience [was] clear" with regard to his own role in the matter.[45]

Back to grass
 

phgreek

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There was a documentary done on it. I've seen it. Shocked me. There was a UCLA booster (Gilbert) that that made the Fab 5 small peanuts. UCLA players were bought for more than a decade. Wooden denied any knowledge of the payments.

Here's a small piece on it from his wikipedia file. The footnotes at that site like investigative articles from a half dozen major papers across the country on the subject.

Wooden's comments on his "lack of knowledge" are similar to Pete Carroll's over Bush. A major difference is that UCLA's extra benefits weren't for a single player but extended over a decade for a PROGRAM.

And Digger stopped 2 of his streaks with real student athletes.

John Wooden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Back to grass

...WOW, this seems to not be "out there" that much...thanks for the info...no more wooden quotes or references...I liked Digger...

agreed...back to grass...

in his radio show Kelly said he had it cut short on the practice field and the game field...says he wants a fast track...I hope that means we have speed, or game speed or something that resembles speed on D...
 

NDOM

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Sorry I'm a bit late but did someone say GRASS???? BGIF AND GOIRISH......Funny posts fo sho. I laughed my ass off at those. :)


No, but seriously, did someone say GRASS?
 

MirageSmack

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My guess is Weis got what he wanted. Certain teams (and fans) were fascinated with the length of our grass, so I guess it did get into their heads.
 
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