Immigration

[NDVirginia19]

 

[Blazers46]

They could GTFO of Minneapolis. That’s the recourse. These pussies are in full body armor and are tear gassing, shooting rubber bullets at, smashing car windows of and manhandling people on the streets of an American city and they are crying because they are being hit with snowballs. Pfy. That happens ant every Eagles game in the snow. Suck it the fuck up — should have expected this when they signed up to be jackbooted thugs.

I’m using your logic here, not my own,Couldn’t the same be said About the people who have died and been shot by ice? This is what they signed up for. Suck it up. Am I doing this right?

 

[NDWarrior]

The sloppy policy was opening the floodgates to Venezuelan and Colombian gangs and millions of others with little to no meaningful verification. That was dangerous and just plain stupid. It's weird taking lectures from the let's open the borders up and see what happens crowd. Pretending there was some neat administrative cleanup on the back end, especially in sanctuary cities, was always wishful thinking. We saw the impact when cities were overwhelmed, and we’ve all watched crime statistics get massaged to downplay what people are experiencing on the ground.

I don't think any reasonable person is gonna disagree with you here, but is the border not shut down pretty air tight at this point? Sure, some illegal aliens already here could become part of crime rings, but the vast majority here - many for asylum reasons - are hard-working, law-abiding individuals, especially because they know that if they stick out and do something wrong, it all ends and they are deported.

Clean up of current illegal bad elements and criminals should be targeted. I mean doesn't the admin and ICE/CBP have all kinds of technologies behind them to know who they're going after and where these targets reside, but instead they choose to mine for criminal illegals like their mining for gold, drilling, blasting, and removing large amounts of rock to create a massive pit to find where the gold resides.

This approach is like going into bars, universities, and even homes to go after Gen Z folks because we believe that youths are the ones driving drunk and killing people (some are even drinking illegally). If you're not in agreement with complete canvassing of entire neighborhoods and cities to find the youth responsible for drunk-driving deaths, then you don't care about those poor dead victims of drunk-driving fatalities. Obey the forces coming into your homes and places you frequent and work, laws and directed enforcement that could do a better job addressing this issue be damned!

I live in what is probably the most affluent zip code in the state, and we’re dealing with organized South American crews targeting homes. That didn’t come out of nowhere. We’ve also seen enforcement priorities flip in ways that pushed trafficking and criminal activity inland instead of stopping it at the border. Calling concerns about this “feelings based” is projection. What people are reacting to is reality, not cable news narratives. Creating martyrs in Minneapolis to turn immigration policy is feelings based.

I mean come on. There will always be crime. I too live in an affluent area of Orange County CA and there is still crime, but we see that the local police department is on the job and regularly post on social media about the criminal rings they have apprehended and yes, many times they are part of a group of immigrants guided by bad elements into committing these crimes. But we see the police are on the job and they drive awareness and watching out for your neighbors and crime being committed.

I don’t want to live in a country where repeated, preventable failures in immigration enforcement, deaths from people who should not be here, people burning in subways, truckers who should not be licensed plowing into teenagers, and whatever else that keep leading to innocent people being killed. Wanting functional borders and competent enforcement shouldn’t be controversial.

"... People who should not be here..." Well, that is the debate isn't it? This argument has been around since time immemorial (you know the recent examples of this). "Outsiders are bad and are the cause of all of our problems, get them out now!" America is a unique experiment and whether we like it or not, we're all descendants of immigrants, and you know the rest, etc. So, do we just not want brown-colored, foreign-speaking people to be in the country at all because they are criminals, don't want to assimilate, and are just exploited, taking low-paying jobs? If we remove all of them, our problems go away, and we experience a "Golden Age?" That's what this admin is telling the country and their ideal state is a white, Christian-Nationalist state where state and (Christian) religion are one and the same. We all wouldn't exist here today if the U.S. had become such a country and state.

Hey, immigration and path to citizenship policies, border control policies, what should be required of immigrants to become assimilated U.S. Citizens, levels of support for immigrants, are all valid debates, but this admin wants to bypass the debate and simply state how it's gonna be: White, Christian-Nationalist, no colors allowed, and if you are in disagreement, you're not a patriot and don't wish America to be great again. And by the way, if you have a different opinion, you have no say in this debate (by voting), because we're gonna do away with that thing called free and fair elections.

 

[RDU Irish]

Was he ordered to stay back, move away, or similar?

Or, are we just spitting out hypotheticals?

What was he under arrest for??

Stop being a retard. JFC - go intervene in the next traffic stop you come across and have your next of kin tell us how it works out hot shot.

 

[Bantry19]

Again, you may not like it, hell I may not like it, but what you’re calling agitating and interfering and blowing whistles or whatever, is protected.

That’s America for you. Love it or leave it.

The protestors who were removed yesterday are very different from the people observing, recording, and using their free speech.

Two totally separate situations not to be conflated.

People did not sign up to be shot by federal agents while exercising their rights. Federal agents do not have rights to shoot people they do not like.

This is America for you.

 

[NDVirginia19]

Again, you may not like it, hell I may not like it, but what you’re calling agitating and interfering and blowing whistles or whatever, is protected.

That’s America for you. Love it or leave it.

The protestors who were removed yesterday are very different from the people observing, recording, and using their free speech.

Two totally separate situations not to be conflated.

People did not sign up to be shot by federal agents while exercising their rights. Federal agents do not have rights to shoot people they do not like.

This is America for you.

Actually no, interfering with enforcement of the law is not protected speech or activity.

 

[TorontoGold]

Guns and kids is an entirely separate topic with an entirely separate range of policy choices.

I am calling the participants in MSP that are being dispatched on a funded, documented, and trained network to deploy tactics designed to prevent the enforcement of the law, tear down hotels believed to be housing ICE, or stopping locals indiscriminately believed to be ICE and demanding to see their ID to be in that last category.

You and Kamala Harris can't even tell me how many illegals came in during the Biden years. We only have a wide range of estimates. My recollection of the Obama era border policy was if you found yourself in the pokey and you were an illegal, you were probably gone. I just don't believe that policy option is on the table anymore in the era of reflexive resistance to Trump and sanctuary cities. I mean we have governors trying to undermine him abroad with kneepads. Not to mention the illegal immigrant population is so much higher now after Biden and the problem has evolved in the last decade. Trump has a different challenge than Obama did, also a very different mandate.

Pretty apt highlight as the "Left doesn't care about innocents!!!" gets shown to be quite the farce when looking at the full picture.

You literally said last year that 20M people flooded the border. No reasonable estimates even come close to that. We already had this discussion, and the total amount is magnitudes lower than the MSM narratives being parroted.

Evolved into what? There is infinitely better tracking now then there was under Obama. You have a much larger ICE apparatus. You're telling me that Trump can only hit Obama's numbers? If there is a much larger population, shouldn't Trump be able to surpass Obama?

Or, are we going to go with the idea that there is a secret cabal of "paid" socialist agitators that have been so successful in thwarting a force that is more well funded than militaries around the world. Literally more funding than the the South African army lmao. You want us to believe that the pink hairs can effectively take down a US police force? They can barely get my coffee order right and somehow they're supposed to be James Bond and Jason Bourne combined.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Of course it’s relevant! The entire justification I’ve heard for him being killed is he was resisting!

Resisting what?!? Resisting assault?

I've already clearly answered you twice. This is why we can't have reasonable informed discussions. You aren't interested in hearing other viewpoints, discussing intelligently, or at least learning someone else's view. You're simply being intentionally obtuse, going in circles, and just trying to obfuscate and sidetrack the debate. If you want to discuss or argue in good faith, get back to me.

 

[ozzman]

Sounds like all isn't hunky dory in ice-land.

ICE Unloads

Immigration officers speak out: “Fuck this.”

www.kenklippenstein.com

 

[Bishop2b5]

They could GTFO of Minneapolis. That’s the recourse. These pussies are in full body armor and are tear gassing, shooting rubber bullets at, smashing car windows of and manhandling people on the streets of an American city and they are crying because they are being hit with snowballs. Pfy. That happens ant every Eagles game in the snow. Suck it the fuck up — should have expected this when they signed up to be jackbooted thugs.

Why should they get out of Minneapolis? They're enforcing the immigration laws passed by a democratically elected Congress. That's their job. That's what LE and Federal agencies are supposed to do. Political agitators, criminals, and paid protestors not liking it is totally irrelevant. By your logic, all someone has to do to not obey the law or be subject to it is to just complain loudly enough about being held accountable or being cited or arrested. Why don't you try that the next time a cop stops you for speeding and let us know how it works out. The recourse is for the people of Minneapolis to follow the law, stop harboring criminals, stop harboring people here illegally, and stop interfering with LE and Federal agents doing their job and enforcing the laws.

 

[RDU Irish]

Pretty apt highlight as the "Left doesn't care about innocents!!!" gets shown to be quite the farce when looking at the full picture.

You literally said last year that 20M people flooded the border. No reasonable estimates even come close to that. We already had this discussion, and the total amount is magnitudes lower than the MSM narratives being parroted.

Evolved into what? There is infinitely better tracking now then there was under Obama. You have a much larger ICE apparatus. You're telling me that Trump can only hit Obama's numbers? If there is a much larger population, shouldn't Trump be able to surpass Obama?

Or, are we going to go with the idea that there is a secret cabal of "paid" socialist agitators that have been so successful in thwarting a force that is more well funded than militaries around the world. Literally more funding than the the South African army lmao. You want us to believe that the pink hairs can effectively take down a US police force? They can barely get my coffee order right and somehow they're supposed to be James Bond and Jason Bourne combined.

You are being purposefully obtuse. Obama numbers were heavily skewed by layups at the border.

Halfway down this page you will see a chart on interior versus border removals. Trump has the disadvantage of shutting down the border so he doesn't get to pad stats with bunnies.

"In 2009, 51 percent of interior removals were of individuals convicted of what DHS described as serious crimes. In 2016, DHS reported that more than 90 percent of interior removals were of noncitizens convicted of serious crimes."

I am still curious on self deportations. Admin claims 2.2M, no idea how they derive that number but it seems relevant and important. Why not highlight this pathway if you are REALLY that concerned about your neighbor?

Canadian Dollar won't offer a number to his liking on how many illegals are present, only scoffs at any number others throw out. Whether it is 10M or 20M - the target should be zero. I am not a fan of an exploitable underclass in my country. This isn't Abu Dhabi. If the Dems/communists were serious about the problem they would be advocating for a work visa, DACA visa with significant requirements such as no criminal record, no welfare and concede on "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" - a concept that makes lib/commies instantly drool on themselves when contemplated in any logical, adult, non-suicidal capacity.

 

[NDWarrior]

Why should they get out of Minneapolis? They're enforcing the immigration laws passed by a democratically elected Congress. That's their job. That's what LE and Federal agencies are supposed to do. Political agitators, criminals, and paid protestors not liking it is totally irrelevant. By your logic, all someone has to do to not obey the law or be subject to it is to just complain loudly enough about being held accountable or being cited or arrested. Why don't you try that the next time a cop stops you for speeding and let us know how it works out. The recourse is for the people of Minneapolis to follow the law, stop harboring criminals, stop harboring people here illegally, and stop interfering with LE and Federal agents doing their job and enforcing the laws.

To whatever degree you feel MSP citizens are following/not following the law and are interfering with LE and Fed. agents (and I do think there is a vast difference between MSP police / MN state officers and Federal "agents") is debatable, but where are you justified in saying "stop harboring criminals, stop harboring people here illegally?" If MSP residents were harboring hardened criminals, I think we all would have an issue with that - Right?

Even if you have a different opinion of to what extent Minnesotans are following the law and FE directives, how can you say this?
I have yet to read any stories or see any posts where neighborhood residents are doing what they're doing because they're secretly harboring known hardened criminals. In fact, where ICE is mostly going are areas that likely have very few hardened criminals. Why focus efforts on areas of diminishing returns?

Could there be an odd, isolated case? Sure. I see it as more they're defending their turf from indiscriminate canvassing of their 'hoods and harassment of their neighbors, some of whom I'm sure are undocumented immigrants, including ones trying to become documented via legal means, but who are not hardened criminals.

Come on man.

 

[Bantry19]

Why should they get out of Minneapolis? They're enforcing the immigration laws passed by a democratically elected Congress. That's their job. That's what LE and Federal agencies are supposed to do. Political agitators, criminals, and paid protestors not liking it is totally irrelevant. By your logic, all someone has to do to not obey the law or be subject to it is to just complain loudly enough about being held accountable or being cited or arrested. Why don't you try that the next time a cop stops you for speeding and let us know how it works out. The recourse is for the people of Minneapolis to follow the law, stop harboring criminals, stop harboring people here illegally, and stop interfering with LE and Federal agents doing their job and enforcing the laws.

By your logic, everyone should have shut up and paid King George.

 

[NDWarrior]

Why does ICE document their abductions with photos? Seems like they want to post that all over their website for propaganda purposes. Sick stuff.

 

[ND88]

Much of what we've read from the leftists on here the past few days reminds me of reading 1984. It's just saying exactly what they're supposed to say even if it's 100% contradicted by video or any other evidence. They look at video of Good hitting a cop with her car and without hesitation say, "She didn't hit him' and I think they almost believe it. Straight from 1984... that ability to hold two mutually exclusive thoughts at the same time and accept them both: "Of course I saw the video of the guy resisting or the woman hitting the cop. He didn't resist and she didn't hit the cop with her car." For them, the ultimate truth isn't reality or evidence, it's the party line.

Speaking of leftism, don't cite a book that is anti-totalitarian, because you misread it to mean anti-socialist. Feel free to have your opinions on what's going on, but leave Orwell out of it. Or I don't know, go back and reread it and study other works by Orwell. Please. For the sake of literacy. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

 

[TorontoGold]

You are being purposefully obtuse. Obama numbers were heavily skewed by layups at the border.

Halfway down this page you will see a chart on interior versus border removals. Trump has the disadvantage of shutting down the border so he doesn't get to pad stats with bunnies.

"In 2009, 51 percent of interior removals were of individuals convicted of what DHS described as serious crimes. In 2016, DHS reported that more than 90 percent of interior removals were of noncitizens convicted of serious crimes."

I am still curious on self deportations. Admin claims 2.2M, no idea how they derive that number but it seems relevant and important. Why not highlight this pathway if you are REALLY that concerned about your neighbor?

Canadian Dollar won't offer a number to his liking on how many illegals are present, only scoffs at any number others throw out. Whether it is 10M or 20M - the target should be zero. I am not a fan of an exploitable underclass in my country. This isn't Abu Dhabi. If the Dems/communists were serious about the problem they would be advocating for a work visa, DACA visa with significant requirements such as no criminal record, no welfare and concede on "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" - a concept that makes lib/commies instantly drool on themselves when contemplated in any logical, adult, non-suicidal capacity.

So wouldn't Trump similarly be able to get those layups if he "shutdown" the border? I'm not following.

In 2016 Obama was hitting 90%?

Because self-deportations are not something you can do functionally with government policy lmao. What do you want to do, offer each family $50K to leave? That's ridiculous. It's a labor markets that impact the self deportations.

I scoff at Drayer because I'm baffled at how routinely he gets shown to sensationalize and post outright incorrect figures. I know you at least put an ounce of care into your sourcing. MAGA_Man_69420 posting pictures of murdered people isn't a useful piece of info outside of Facebook groups.

Not a fan of exploitable underclass is a real howler, because there already is a pretty well established exploited underclass. They're the overly incarnated folks doing labor for like 10 cents an hour. But, please lecture me on how some random guy working the fields hurts your fee fees because you don't like to see him being exploited*****

****Still unclear what you mean by exploitation because giving poor people any sort of government assistance is reallllllyyyy bad and labor laws are just there to protect unions or whatever.

 

[GoIrish41]

Why should they get out of Minneapolis? They're enforcing the immigration laws passed by a democratically elected Congress. That's their job. That's what LE and Federal agencies are supposed to do. Political agitators, criminals, and paid protestors not liking it is totally irrelevant. By your logic, all someone has to do to not obey the law or be subject to it is to just complain loudly enough about being held accountable or being cited or arrested. Why don't you try that the next time a cop stops you for speeding and let us know how it works out. The recourse is for the people of Minneapolis to follow the law, stop harboring criminals, stop harboring people here illegally, and stop interfering with LE and Federal agents doing their job and enforcing the laws.

Not a big fan of Gandhi or MLK, I guess. Passive resistance works.

 

[Bantry19]

Canadian Dollar won't offer a number to his liking on how many illegals are present, only scoffs at any number others throw out. Whether it is 10M or 20M - the target should be zero. I am not a fan of an exploitable underclass in my country. This isn't Abu Dhabi. If the Dems/communists were serious about the problem they would be advocating for a work visa, DACA visa with significant requirements such as no criminal record, no welfare and concede on "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" - a concept that makes lib/commies instantly drool on themselves when contemplated in any logical, adult, non-suicidal capacity.

Wouldn't be the first time, but I'm confused. Are you saying work visas and DACA is a reasonable solution? Or, that Democrats should advocate for work visas and a DACA like solution?

 

[Irish#1]

Of course it’s relevant! The entire justification I’ve heard for him being killed is he was resisting!

Resisting what?!? Resisting assault?

Resisting may not be the correct term. What he did initially in getting involved is called obstruction which we all know is illegal.

 

[Sea Turtle]

 

[Bantry19]

Resisting may not be the correct term. What he did initially in getting involved is called obstruction which we all know is illegal.

Wrong.

 

[Irish#1]

Again, you may not like it, hell I may not like it, but what you’re calling agitating and interfering and blowing whistles or whatever, is protected.

That’s America for you. Love it or leave it.

The protestors who were removed yesterday are very different from the people observing, recording, and using their free speech.

Two totally separate situations not to be conflated.

People did not sign up to be shot by federal agents while exercising their rights. Federal agents do not have rights to shoot people they do not like.

This is America for you.

You mind sending me your address? I'll come over with a few friends with whistles and bullhorns to protest.

You're down playing blowing whistles like it's no big deal, but you want to know why they are doing it? Because they know that while at its core a whistle is a pretty harmless toy, but when you have a lot of people blowing, it's an agitator and they're looking to get a reaction from LE.

 

[Bishop2b5]

To whatever degree you feel MSP citizens are following/not following the law and are interfering with LE and Fed. agents (and I do think there is a vast difference between MSP police / MN state officers and Federal "agents") is debatable, but where are you justified in saying "stop harboring criminals, stop harboring people here illegally?" If MSP residents were harboring hardened criminals, I think we all would have an issue with that - Right?

Even if you have a different opinion of to what extent Minnesotans are following the law and FE directives, how can you say this?
I have yet to read any stories or see any posts where neighborhood residents are doing what they're doing because they're secretly harboring known hardened criminals. In fact, where ICE is mostly going are areas that likely have very few hardened criminals. Why focus efforts on areas of diminishing returns?

Could there be an odd, isolated case? Sure. I see it as more they're defending their turf from indiscriminate canvassing of their 'hoods and harassment of their neighbors, some of whom I'm sure are undocumented immigrants, including ones trying to become documented via legal means, but who are not hardened criminals.

Come on man.

Here's an example:



ICE's primary job is immigration, obviously. The focus has primarily been on removing illegal immigrants with serious criminal charges, but there's absolutely no reason they shouldn't and don't apprehend and remove ALL people who are in violation of our immigration laws. That's their job. When protestors are actively harassing ICE and other LE who are trying to arrest criminals, then yes, they most certainly are harboring criminals. They're interfering with the arrest of them. Some of those arrests are of people whose only crime is just violating our immigration laws (still a crime and subject to arrest and deportation), while some are arrests of violent criminals wanted for more serious crimes such as murder, rape, drug dealing, sex trafficking, child molesters, and etc.

The laws they are enforcing are ones passed by our democratically elected legislators. They are free to disagree with those laws and protest. They're free to campaign for legislative candidates who'll pass laws more to their liking. They're NOT free (nor protected by the First Amendment) to harass, let alone interfere with, LE and ICE doing their duty and enforcing the law. They're agitating to provoke. You know it, I know it, everyone knows that. Some just deny it, but we all know it. This has been the MO of the radical left for decades.

I never said they were intentionally harboring hardened criminals. That was the term you used. However, as in the video above, if you're interfering with them carrying out their duty to arrest illegals and many of those they're after are indeed serious offenders, isn't that exactly what you're doing? LE and ICE are trying to arrest rapists and murderers and such, and these paid protestors are doing everything they can to interfere, so yeah, they are harboring some bad people. And they're most certainly harboring thousands of people who are 100% here illegally, in direct defiance of our duly passed national immigration laws.

 

[Bantry19]

You mind sending me your address? I'll come over with a few friends with whistles and bullhorns to protest.

You're down playing blowing whistles like it's no big deal, but you want to know why they are doing it? Because they know that while at its core a whistle is a pretty harmless toy, but when you have a lot of people blowing, it's an agitator and they're looking to get a reaction from LE.

Well, see, my home is a private residence, and your 1st Amendment rights are limited here.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Speaking of leftism, don't cite a book that is anti-totalitarian, because you misread it to mean anti-socialist. Feel free to have your opinions on what's going on, but leave Orwell out of it. Or I don't know, go back and reread it and study other works by Orwell. Please. For the sake of literacy. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

I cited exactly what I meant to cite and correctly so. 1984 criticized the holding of mutually exclusive beliefs or ideas because the party told them to: knowing something, seeing it with your own two eyes, but swearing it didn't happen. That's exactly what some of the leftists in here do. They've seen video of the Good woman disobeying a direct and lawful order from an ICE agent and then striking him with her vehicle in multiple videos, and then they say it didn't happen. So yeah, they see something then swear they didn't see it because that's the party line.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Well, see, my home is a private residence, and your 1st Amendment rights are limited here.

You should read up on First Amendment rights. Harassing and interfering with law enforcement isn't covered and has been specifically ruled illegal. It allows citizens to film LE doing their job, but not stick cameras in their face to harass or interfere with them. It does not allow physical obstruction such as standing in their path, blocking their vehicles, obstructing them from entering a building, etc. It does not allow you to assault them nor to disobey lawful orders, nor to incite violence.

 

[Irish#1]

Well, see, my home is a private residence, and your 1st Amendment rights are limited here.

I'm free to stand on the sidewalk.

 

[Blazers46]

Well, see, my home is a private residence, and your 1st Amendment rights are limited here.

What if I am a self proclaimed member of the media? Don lemon didn’t have a problem with private property.

 

[Bantry19]

I'll make one more point about "interfering" or "obstructing" law enforcement.

If that's what's happening, why are we not seeing mass arrests of all these people interfering and obstructing on a daily basis? Why are there no convictions?

There are ~3,000 ICE agents in Minneapolis and another ~1,000 US Customs and Border agents.

Are they rendered helpless in the face of purple hairs?

Some may cross that line, and they should be dealt with due process in the spirit of accountability. Certainly, not by being put to death.

Some may teeter that line and be really annoying. It's up to law enforcement, who take an Oath to the Constitution, to respect people's rights to be really annoying. With that Oath comes great responsibility. We should expect nothing less than the very best from law enforcement. They should be the very best of us. And, when they're not, they MUST be held accountable.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Not a big fan of Gandhi or MLK, I guess. Passive resistance works.

I'm perfectly fine with MLK and Gandhi. They did it the right way. The paid agitators in MSP, though, are not engaging in passive resistance. They're actively interfering with the enforcement of the law by LE and Federal agents and assaulting those officers. That's not in any way protected by the First Amendment and is the exact opposite of passive resistance. If you don't like the laws, elect people to change them. Until then, stop making excuses for paid agitators to harass and interfere with those enforcing those laws.