Russia Invades Ukraine

[TorontoGold]

England is already turning. There are quite a few mayors that are Muslim. There's a report showing a lot of new housing is being built near mosques and Muslim centers specifically for the Muslim population.

Would you be ok with this happening in the US?

 

[BuaConstrictor]

When a group of people move into your country and want to change the cultural to where the fled from rather than assimilate.

Is assimilation required?

 

[Tejas]

Is assimilation required?

Maybe not, but leave the grooming gangs and knife attacks at home. Those seem to be a problem.

 

[calvegas04]

Is assimilation required?

I think if you move somewhere you should respect their culture, history and way of life.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

I think if you move somewhere you should respect their culture, history and way of life.

low hanging fruit... Native Americans would like a brief word.....

anyways.......we don't even do that here as non-immigrants. We constantly update laws and our own culture as we progress through time.

Would you then advocate that if anyone from a different cultural background not try to effect change in their new location here in the US? Why is this mindset exclusive to immigrants?

 

[Sea Turtle]

It is bad for cultural identity. When a group of people move into your country and want to change the cultural to where the fled from rather than assimilate.

I have seen videos of Muslims in the UK wanting to pass Muslim laws.

It's never a good situation when people who you graciously take in aren't assimilating. Once more, its worse when they have open disdain for your country, values and religion. You get a state within a state, no go zones, terrorist attacks and mutual contempt.

How anybody could be ok is this is beyond me. They are either self loathing or wanting 'payback' for historical injustices.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Would you be ok with this happening in the US?

Nobody who has any sense in the US would be ok with this. Only tankies would be. In fact, they would cheer for it.

 

[TorontoGold]

Nobody who has any sense in the US would be ok with this. Only tankies would be. In fact, they would cheer for it.

What do you mean? If it was legally done, what would the issue be?

 

[Tejas]

Aren't the Somalians doing this in Minnesota? They aren't very pro Christian or even very tolerant of Christians. I heard.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Aren't the Somalians doing this in Minnesota?

There are roughly ~100,000 Somalis in Minnesota.
Minnesota has a population of nearly 6 million people.

 

[Tejas]

There are roughly ~100,000 Somalis in Minnesota.
Minnesota has a population of nearly 6 million people.

My bad, I didn't mean they were trying to take over the entire state. Moreso smaller communities within the state.

 

[Sea Turtle]

What do you mean? If it was legally done, what would the issue be?

The issue is the same issue that Muslim nations make when they declare in their constitutions that their nation is and must be Islamic. The same issue that China, japan and Poland have that they want their countries to remain so.

The United States is a western nation with western judeo Christian values and we want it to remain so. If a Muslim wants to live under sharia law, they can do it at the pleasure of 54 other nations.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

take over

Moreso smaller communities within the state.

Define "take over". It's sociologically true that "like" groups tend to live together. That's nearly universally true.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

we want it

Who is "we?"

Also, what do you think there are more of in the US? White Christian Nationalists who want to live under a theocracy of Christianity(bad/illegal) or Sharia Law(bad/illegal) advocates?

 

[TorontoGold]

The issue is the same issue that Muslim nations make when they declare in their constitutions that their nation is and must be Islamic. The same issue that China, japan and Poland have that they want their countries to remain so.

The United States is a western nation with western judeo Christian values and we want it to remain so. If a Muslim wants to live under sharia law, they can do it at the pleasure of 54 other nations.

I'm not following, in your first paragraph you rightfully point out the ridiculousness of living in a theocracy but then state that the US should be governed by "Christian values".

I think it's harmful to label Muslims as a monolith and represented by only the most extreme people who want absolute submission to the most radical beliefs.

Look at it this way, I live near/in a very Jewish neighborhood. On Saturday's a lot of places are closed. No big deal, I'll go there when they're open. Should I look at it as an afront to the existence of the country? No, you'd be crazy to say that they should be assimilating into my religious beliefs.

FTR - I find it really destructive to include "judeo" in the discussion because there is a huge difference in representation of Jewish people, and that including them in this type of rhetoric leads to unhinged pyscho's saying shit like "wow jews controlling the media/government".

 

[BuaConstrictor]

unhinged pyscho's saying shit like "wow jews controlling the media/government".

Why would they care?! They have the same belief system as us!

basically..to say...I highly doubt that the same people that tout the "Judeo-Christian" values for what they want the country to look like would be fine with that pendulum swinging to the "Judeo" side of the things.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I'm not following, in your first paragraph you rightfully point out the ridiculousness of living in a theocracy but then state that the US should be governed by "Christian values".

I think it's harmful to label Muslims as a monolith and represented by only the most extreme people who want absolute submission to the most radical beliefs.

Look at it this way, I live near/in a very Jewish neighborhood. On Saturday's a lot of places are closed. No big deal, I'll go there when they're open. Should I look at it as an afront to the existence of the country? No, you'd be crazy to say that they should be assimilating into my religious beliefs.

FTR - I find it really destructive to include "judeo" in the discussion because there is a huge difference in representation of Jewish people, and that including them in this type of rhetoric leads to unhinged pyscho's saying shit like "wow jews controlling the media/government".

The bible is judeo christion. You have the old and new testament. Jesus is a Jew as were the the first Christians. The value of the ten commandments is ingrained in our culture. So that's where the judeo comes from. And while we have failed in our past to a degree, I believe jews have been treated far better here than elsewhere. I don't advocate for going as far as Islamic countries do to ensure their religion dominates. But it does need to be honored and valued.

So I am fine with muslim immigrants who do their best to jump into the melting pot of the US. I work with some kurds and they are great. They love the US, there are American flags on government buildings alongside their own in Kurdistan. Just like i am fine with legal immigrants from mexico and Central and South America, Jews, etc.They are good family centered people who are catholics or jewish and share our values.

I am an individual with my own unique perspectives, just like you. I have my own biases, strengths and weaknesses.I just am much more comfortable with immigrants who seem to love our country and values.

And you're right. The Saturday thing isn't a big deal. By the way, thanks for that tax link. We got it figured out. The problem is we owe $3,500 😞

 

[Tejas]

Define "take over". It's sociologically true that "like" groups tend to live together. That's nearly universally true.

Flood a specific area with Somali people. Minnesota has the largest Somali population in America, Little Mogadishu. Somali gangs, rising crime rate, poverty, and Sharia law. Probably a no go zone for me. A lot of ISIS recruits come from there.

 

[TorontoGold]

The bible is judeo christion. You have the old and new testament. Jesus is a Jew as were the the first Christians. The value of the ten commandments is ingrained in our culture. So that's where the judeo comes from. And while we have failed in our past to a degree, I believe jews have been treated far better here than elsewhere. I don't advocate for going as far as Islamic countries do to ensure their religion dominates. But it does need to be honored and valued.

So I am fine with muslim immigrants who do their best to jump into the melting pot of the US. I work with some kurds and they are great. They love the US, there are American flags on government buildings alongside their own in Kurdistan. Just like i am fine with legal immigrants from mexico and Central and South America, Jews, etc.They are good family centered people who are catholics or jewish and share our values.

I am an individual with my own unique perspectives, just like you. I have my own biases, strengths and weaknesses.I just am much more comfortable with immigrants who seem to love our country and values.

And you're right. The Saturday thing isn't a big deal. By the way, thanks for that tax link. We got it figured out. The problem is we owe $3,500 😞

I think the difference that you and I have is that I perceive the "Western" cultural identity as one that is a melting pot of all religions and not a dominant one. I think the second you start picking winners and losers based on religion that's a dark path to go down. Certainly seems to be the antithesis of the people who left the Old World for the New.

We are all going to get along better with those that share similar cultural upbringings and what not, but I don't believe in writing an entire religion off because of the extreme elements.

You owe $3,500? Just double check that you can't make "catch up" contributions, sometimes these sorts of accounts will allow you to withdraw but you have the chance to contribute the amount back into the account to wipe out any possible excess tax. I'm not sure on the rules with a 529 account but something to research.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I think the difference that you and I have is that I perceive the "Western" cultural identity as one that is a melting pot of all religions and not a dominant one. I think the second you start picking winners and losers based on religion that's a dark path to go down. Certainly seems to be the antithesis of the people who left the Old World for the New.

We are all going to get along better with those that share similar cultural upbringings and what not, but I don't believe in writing an entire religion off because of the extreme elements.

You owe $3,500? Just double check that you can't make "catch up" contributions, sometimes these sorts of accounts will allow you to withdraw but you have the chance to contribute the amount back into the account to wipe out any possible excess tax. I'm not sure on the rules with a 529 account but something to research.

That's fair and we'll reasoned. I appreciate it. I'm sorry that we got off to such a bad start over a year ago. I don't know it all and am wrong at times. I was wrong about the hip hop culture thing back then. My wife had to tell me 'honey you're confusing that with inner city gang culture. Yes, black, white, Latino, Korean, islamic, etc. gang culture is awful'

So that's why I started sending you olive branches awhile back because I was wrong and I do think you're a good man. It's good to be able to debate and have conversations with you, Seek, GAT, etc.

 

[Tejas]

Can someone start Toronto a Dear Abby tax thread?

 

[TorontoGold]

Can someone start Toronto a Dear Abby tax thread?

lol my personal tax exposure is limited in the US, mostly just corporate tax work in KY/CA/GA/OH/PA/NY

 

[Tejas]

lol my personal tax exposure is limited in the US, mostly just corporate tax work in KY/CA/GA/OH/PA/NY

That's ok buddy, I think you'll do great. IE Taxman

 

[BuaConstrictor]

The bible is judeo christion

The Quran also notes and accepts the divine inspiration of the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels so it's not as though those who practice Islam are throwing the Judeo-Christian tradition away. They acknowledge the divinity of the texts. Also, if we are being honest Jesus is more highly revered/respected by Islam than he is by the Jewish faith.

 

[Sea Turtle]

 

[NorthDakota]

There are roughly ~100,000 Somalis in Minnesota.
Minnesota has a population of nearly 6 million people.

Minneapolis has less than half a million people. If we include St. Paul they are at like 750K. I'm sure some are in the suburbs, some are in St. Cloud, but it is its not really ~100,000 of 6 million. It's probably more like 100,000 out of like 1-2 million. All the sudden that concentration is much higher.

They are all also younger. Like half of them are under 18. Another 25% are under 35. So that population is going to grow like a weed relative to others. Only 20% of Minneapolis is under 17. Another 35% are between 18-35. No idea how many of them are U of M students, but it's a giant school and most of them do not stay in Minneapolis.

It is not ideal. I don't know that I would blame Somalis for Minneapolis downturn, but I don't think they've been real great either. Would need to defer to posters who spend more time there. I only go for concerts and baseball games.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Minneapolis has less than half a million people. If we include St. Paul they are at like 750K. I'm sure some are in the suburbs, some are in St. Cloud, but it is its not really ~100,000 of 6 million. It's probably more like 100,000 out of like 1-2 million. All the sudden that concentration is much higher.

They are all also younger. Like half of them are under 18. Another 25% are under 35. So that population is going to grow like a weed relative to others. Only 20% of Minneapolis is under 17. Another 35% are between 18-35. No idea how many of them are U of M students, but it's a giant school and most of them do not stay in Minneapolis.

It is not ideal. I don't know that I would blame Somalis for Minneapolis downturn, but I don't think they've been real great either. Would need to defer to posters who spend more time there. I only go for concerts and baseball games.

You probably spend more time in Fargo than I do, so I'll defer to your take, but the Somali population there seems to have done a much better job of integrating into the community and culture, and haven't been nearly as much of a crime problem as in Minneapolis. At least that's been the impression I've gotten.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Minneapolis has less than half a million people. If we include St. Paul they are at like 750K. I'm sure some are in the suburbs, some are in St. Cloud, but it is its not really ~100,000 of 6 million. It's probably more like 100,000 out of like 1-2 million.

He specifically mentioned the entire state at the beginning of this.. That's why I used state-wide numbers. The Somali pop in MN/SP is around 80k.

There has also been no real causation yet between the Somali population and crime rate either.

Refugee populations are hard on any area from a resource allocation perspective, but what I find problematic is terms like "taking over" and "weeds" and other posters saying they won't visit because of it. I happen to enjoy the hell out of MN/SP and their food/culture is fantastic.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

You probably spend more time in Fargo than I do, so I'll defer to your take, but the Somali population there seems to have done a much better job of integrating into the community and culture, and haven't been nearly as much of a crime problem as in Minneapolis. At least that's been the impression I've gotten.

My best friend and his wife lived in Moorehead while she got her doctorate at NDSU. There was definitely an influx of Somalians where they lived, but they never had any crazy crime issues. Stolen Amazon packages were there biggest problem from what I was told.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Stolen Amazon packages were there biggest problem from what I was told.

and those were bc of your friend!