Another Shooting

[TorontoGold]

You mock but poverty is something very real and can be very much a mindset. Problem is parents don’t know how to raise their children… the destruction of community and family is huge. When we have weak communities and weak families we spawn weak people.

I mock it because it is being pushed by the same group that hyper focus in on individualism and getting "there's" no matter the cost. The same group that believes anyone advocating for change in the current system as beggars or lazy.

You can not have this late stage capitalism and then complain about the lack of family unit and community. When you have the systems in place pitting the people against each other, prime example is the whole healthcare for immigrants thing - society is broken when you have people that think that the solution is just taking away the healthcare but not providing it for free to it's own citizens.

 

[Irish#1]

Come on man. This like one step away from blaming avocado toast. It is impossible for a giant number of families which grows larger every year, and it's not because people have iphones.

That's BS. People have always struggled with the cost of living and raising a family. You give up those things you can afford to have a stay at home parent. All of that stuff adds up to a good chunk of change. I use to buy Starbucks every day on the way to work. When I realized I was spending $100 a month, I stopped. At that point in my life it wasn't that I couldn't afford it. It was a realization that I was wasting money on something I could do without. I still get Starbucks once in a while, but no where near what I did.

- This message brought to you by someone who lived it and succeeded.

 

[GATTACA!]

It’s not that hard, really. It’s such an easy read for me. The stats in all the things that matter are and have been trending in the wrong direction for years. Mental health issues, religious affiliation, single parent homes, marriage rates… families and communities are not strong and that is what good societies are built on.

I agree with most of your list. The root cause of most of this IMO is money. Money makes the world go round, and as income inequality continues to grow people will continue to be too stressed out and not have any free time to be able to address any of it.

 

[Irish#1]

It's just a question of want. Being poor is a mindset. Parent's just simply don't want to raise their kids, they'd much rather be at work because it's just a choice to stay at home!

- This message brought to you by the same people who think the younger generation is lazy

Always good to hear about raising a family from the crowd that's not married and doesn't have kids.

 

[Blazers46]

I agree with most of your list. The root cause of most of this IMO is money. Money makes the world go round, and as income inequality continues to grow people will continue to be too stressed out and not have any free time to be able to address any of it.

We have the richest poor people on the planet. While I agree money makes things happen, I don’t agree the richest poors on the planet are doing stupid shit because of it directly… maybe if you go back to mindset and entitlement/expectations…. but that’s not necessarily a money issue it’s an expectations/societal issue placed upon them.

 

[TorontoGold]

Always good to hear about raising a family from the crowd that's not married and doesn't have kids.

Explain to us your great wisdom on how to make it work on a single income. Your experience on how to change a diaper is something I don't understand, but I certainly understand how finances work and that's what is being discussed. It's great you were able to do this 30/40 years ago, your kids certainly appreciated this but this is not a reality for the great majority of people.

 

[Blazers46]

Explain to us your great wisdom on how to make it work on a single income. Your experience on how to change a diaper is something I don't understand, but I certainly understand how finances work and that's what is being discussed. It's great you were able to do this 30/40 years ago, your kids certainly appreciated this but this is not a reality for the great majority of people.

I think we’re having the wrong conversation still. A single income family, or a dual income family… people aren’t deciding to either pay rent or have a kid that is a school shooter. It’s very possible to have a strong family unit when both parents work. Is it harder, sure. The question we should be asking is how the hell are you so disconnected from your child that they are writing manifesto’s and talking about these sorts of things and it goes unnoticed? And then is able to grab a gun from somewhere and walk out of the house with it. I have a dual income family and thats not possible in my home.

 

[GATTACA!]

We have the richest poor people on the planet. While I agree money makes things happen, I don’t agree the richest poors on the planet are doing stupid shit because of it directly… maybe if you go back to mindset and entitlement/expectations…. but that’s not necessarily a money issue it’s an expectations/societal issue placed upon them.

Wealth is relative. Idc how rich you are compared to other people globally. If you have to work two jobs to barely make your rent payment it doesn't matter.

You guys all want to romanticize the nuclear family from the 50s, but then balk and call it communism when it's pointed out that the average tax rate for the .01% was 55% in 1950. It's 30% now.

 

[Blazers46]

I mock it because it is being pushed by the same group that hyper focus in on individualism and getting "there's" no matter the cost. The same group that believes anyone advocating for change in the current system as beggars or lazy.

You can not have this late stage capitalism and then complain about the lack of family unit and community. When you have the systems in place pitting the people against each other, prime example is the whole healthcare for immigrants thing - society is broken when you have people that think that the solution is just taking away the healthcare but not providing it for free to it's own citizens.

So fix capitalism and my neighbor will like me more? Seems stupid.

 

[Blazers46]

Wealth is relative. Idc how rich you are compared to other people globally. If you have to work two jobs to barely make your rent payment it doesn't matter.

You guys all want to romanticize the nuclear family from the 50s, but then balk and call it communism when it's pointed out that the average tax rate for the .01% was 55% in 1950. It's 30% now.

If you have to work 2 jobs to make rent your community is broken not your income.

 

[TorontoGold]

So fix capitalism and my neighbor will like me more? Seems stupid.

Seems stupid to expect your neighbor to care about you because just want them to.

 

[GATTACA!]

So fix capitalism and my neighbor will like me more? Seems stupid.

Give people the ability to enjoy their lives and community will grow.

 

[TorontoGold]

I think we’re having the wrong conversation still. A single income family, or a dual income family… people aren’t deciding to either pay rent or have a kid that is a school shooter. It’s very possible to have a strong family unit when both parents work. Is it harder, sure. The question we should be asking is how the hell are you so disconnected from your child that they are writing manifesto’s and talking about these sorts of things and it goes unnoticed? And then is able to grab a gun from somewhere and walk out of the house with it. I have a dual income family and thats not possible in my home.

My comment wasn't WRT school shooters. Just because Irish#1 was able to do to raise 5 kids on a single income in the 80's and expects others to do that today is detached from reality.

Totally agree that school shooters have terrible parents, throw them in jail with the kids too.

 

[Blazers46]

Seems stupid to expect your neighbor to care about you because just want them to.

I 100% agree. Except I don’t expect them to. I care about them and hope they reciprocate… if they don’t we learn and move on.

 

[Blazers46]

Give people the ability to enjoy their lives and community will grow.

They have the ability, they just don’t know how.

 

[Blazers46]

My comment wasn't WRT school shooters. Just because Irish#1 was able to do to raise 5 kids on a single income in the 80's and expects others to do that today is detached from reality.

Totally agree that school shooters have terrible parents, throw them in jail with the kids too.

I think school shooter parents represent most parents and most parents are terrible parents that just so happen to raise a kid that didn’t shoot anyone to despite being a shitty parent/person.

 

[drayer54]

I still find it interesting we still have people cheering on a CEO shooter and then another left wing person decides to go shoot at Christian kids.

 

[Blazers46]

I still find it interesting we still have people cheering on a CEO shooter and then another left wing person decides to go shoot at Christian kids.

Biden, the leader of the stricter gun laws fan club pardons his son for gun charges, CEO gets shot the convo turns to healthcare. People don’t care about guns.

 

[Irish#1]

Explain to us your great wisdom on how to make it work on a single income. Your experience on how to change a diaper is something I don't understand, but I certainly understand how finances work and that's what is being discussed. It's great you were able to do this 30/40 years ago, your kids certainly appreciated this but this is not a reality for the great majority of people.

I'm disappointed you're not getting this with you being the smartest guy in the room. We're talking about raising a family and having a parent around the kids most of the time. Blazer is right. You can do it with both working, but it puts a strain on the family. But we're not talking about macro economics. We're talking about simple finances and the ability to live off one income so a parent is around the kids more. That's why I said it wasn't impossible.

If only one parent works, you only need one car.
Car payment saved $500 - $800 a month
Car insurance saved $100 a month
Gas saved $150 - $300 a month
Not eating out 4-5 times a week $100 - $300
Cutting cable/streaming subscriptions $100 - $150 a month

That's $950 - $1,650 right there. Then you have stuff unnecessary purchases like Starbucks or buying the latest Yeti or some other designer thermal mug, etc., etc., etc..

 

[Irish#1]

Wealth is relative. Idc how rich you are compared to other people globally. If you have to work two jobs to barely make your rent payment it doesn't matter.

You guys all want to romanticize the nuclear family from the 50s, but then balk and call it communism when it's pointed out that the average tax rate for the .01% was 55% in 1950. It's 30% now.

I can't speak to the 50's or 60's when it comes to raising a family. I was still a kid. I started raising our first in '73. The tax rate may be different, but it's all relative. Wages and prices were much lower but it wasn't easy. I think my salary in '73 was around $6,000 - $6,500 a year.

If you're working two jobs to barely pay your rent, then you should evaluate where you're living or look for a better paying job.

 

[GATTACA!]

I can't speak to the 50's or 60's when it comes to raising a family. I was still a kid. I started raising our first in '73. The tax rate may be different, but it's all relative. Wages and prices were much lower but it wasn't easy. I think my salary in '73 was around $6,000 - $6,500 a year.

If you're working two jobs to barely pay your rent, then you should evaluate where you're living or look for a better paying job.

Adjusted for inflation $6,500 in 1973 equals just over $48,000 in todays dollars. The median individual income in 2023 was just over $48,000. So nearly identical.

Meanwhile the average house in 1973, adjusted for inflation, cost $189,500. In 2023 the average cost by comparison was $440,300.

Same story with cars, same story with college educations, same story with healthcare costs, child rearing, nearly everything. So no it's not as simple as just finding a better job or moving, and it's not because people have ipads or take lavish vacations (lol).

 

[Blazers46]

If you're working two jobs to barely pay your rent, then you should evaluate where you're living or look for a better paying job.

Not only where you’re living but HOW you are living. I’ve seen people move away thinking they will solve all their problem but they move their problems with them.

Adjusted for inflation $6,500 in 1973 equals just over $48,000 in todays dollars. The median individual income in 2023 was just over $48,000. So nearly identical.

Meanwhile the average house in 1973, adjusted for inflation, cost $189,500. In 2023 the average cost by comparison was $440,300.

Same story with cars, same story with college educations, same story with healthcare costs, child rearing, nearly everything. So no it's not as simple as just finding a better job or moving, and it's not because people have ipads or take lavish vacations (lol).

Things are more expensive. Adjust. For example what’s wrong with dual family households? What’s wrong with downsizing? Shit, my dad rode his bike to work his whole life. I’ve lived with roommates and dual families. Make it work. Sure it’s easier to get “free” government, take the fish or learn how to fish.

 

[GATTACA!]

For example what’s wrong with dual family households?

Less time to spend raising your children. That's the entire reason this discussion started. Amongst a plethora of other reasons.

Ofc everyone needs to adjust and does. But they will be miserable while doing it. Making a fraction of the proportional wages that their predecessors did, because billionaires and mega corporations are raping everyone for their own gain. So it's no surprise that mental health issues continue to rise, homelessness continues to rise, suicides, credit card debt, crippling medical debt, foreclosures. How could they not?

JuST MaKe IT Work.

What sage advice.

 

[Blazers46]

Less time to spend raising your children. That's the entire reason this discussion started. Amongst a plethora of other reasons.

Ofc everyone needs to adjust and does. But they will be miserable while doing it. Making a fraction of the proportional wages that their predecessors did, because billionaires and mega corporations are raping everyone for their own gain. So it's no surprise that mental health issues continue to rise, homelessness continues to rise, suicides, credit card debt, crippling medical debt, foreclosures. How could they not?

JuST MaKe IT Work.

What sage advice.

A dual family household cuts the rent/overhead by half meaning you work less… meaning you see your kids less? What are your plethora of other reasons? Less space, oh no. You have to coexist with people, fuck sake…

We live in different worlds and I feel bad for you. You make life seem so miserable. You say money is the cure all, have at it.

 

[RDU Irish]

I'm disappointed you're not getting this with you being the smartest guy in the room. We're talking about raising a family and having a parent around the kids most of the time. Blazer is right. You can do it with both working, but it puts a strain on the family. But we're not talking about macro economics. We're talking about simple finances and the ability to live off one income so a parent is around the kids more. That's why I said it wasn't impossible.

If only one parent works, you only need one car.
Car payment saved $500 - $800 a month
Car insurance saved $100 a month
Gas saved $150 - $300 a month
Not eating out 4-5 times a week $100 - $300
Cutting cable/streaming subscriptions $100 - $150 a month

That's $950 - $1,650 right there. Then you have stuff unnecessary purchases like Starbucks or buying the latest Yeti or some other designer thermal mug, etc., etc., etc..

We are on to Stanley's now, old man.

We paid a mint for day care - it was pretty much a wash after tax on that second salary but you have to chase that brass ring! Stay at home is not "not working" - you are saving an absolute pile doing it right. If you have two kids in day care - that is easily $2500/month plus another $1000/month you save with your time to cook, clean and shop smart. That is easily a $60k/year pre-tax job equivalent.

Kids are expensive AF but a large part of that is keeping up with the Joneses. Town baseball may not be good enough for your little Jeter but $50 for a season versus $500 per weekend tournament 300 miles away needs to be back in the discretionary, not necessity category. When we moved in 2009 I bought a three year old Sienna with under 20k miles for $18k - that's paid off in two years with no money down and your $800/month car payment and then $0 for the next decade if you take care of it. Or pay $350/month for five years if $800 is too much. Buy used, take care of it and own it long after the payments are done rather than investing in a new depreciating asset when you can't afford your rent.

 

[RDU Irish]

A dual family household cuts the rent/overhead by half meaning you work less… meaning you see your kids less? What are your plethora of other reasons? Less space, oh no. You have to coexist with people, fuck sake…

We live in different worlds and I feel bad for you. You make life seem so miserable. You say money is the cure all, have at it.

I have a client running out of money in her 70s who refuses to take action. My team made a 10 point action list included getting a roommate (she can't afford the home she owns and lives in alone), claim $300/month SNAP eligibility, lunches at the Senior Center, volunteer at church instead of giving money you can't afford (amongst a pile of other charities she is giving to), consider moving in with one of your kids..... not a fun list of options but she is too prideful to do any of them. She will be bankrupt in three years with much worse options than today. People in our country are horrendously entitled even when facing imminent failure.

 

[GATTACA!]

A dual family household cuts the rent/overhead by half meaning you work less… meaning you see your kids less? What are your plethora of other reasons? Less space, oh no. You have to coexist with people, fuck sake…

That would be a great solution if house prices hadn't more than doubled since the idilic times you and Irish#1 are referencing. Yes if both parents are working 40+ hours per week vs one being home taking care of their children they will see their children less. Seems pretty straight forward.

Less space? Idk what you're even talking about.

The drawbacks to having one parent not be able to stay home beyond less time rearing children would be homemaking. If both parents are working full time jobs things like cooking, cleaning, bill paying, errands, etc all get shoved into nights and weekends.

We live in different worlds and I feel bad for you. You make life seem so miserable. You say money is the cure all, have at it.

Yes people outside of your bubble are miserable. I have a great life and am not miserable. My wife and I both have great jobs and can support our family. But I have compassion for the giant portion of my generation that is fucked by economic factors that are outside of their control. It's frustrating to see people ignore the obvious facts of the situation and blame it on them all being lazy or dumb and saying they should just stop spending money on vacations lol.

 

[Blazers46]

That would be a great solution if house prices hadn't more than doubled since the idilic times you and Irish#1 are referencing. Yes if both parents are working 40+ hours per week vs one being home taking care of their children they will see their children less. Seems pretty straight forward.

Less space? Idk what you're even talking about.

The drawbacks to having one parent not be able to stay home beyond less time rearing children would be homemaking. If both parents are working full time jobs things like cooking, cleaning, bill paying, errands, etc all get shoved into nights and weekends.

Yes people outside of your bubble are miserable. I have a great life and am not miserable. My wife and I both have great jobs and can support our family. But I have compassion for the giant portion of my generation that is fucked by economic factors that are outside of their control. It's frustrating to see people ignore the obvious facts of the situation and blame it on them all being lazy or dumb and saying they should just stop spending money on vacations lol.

Dual family household not dual income family. Huge difference. Multiple families equal more workers in the home meaning less hours per person needed. Pretty straightforward.

 

[GATTACA!]

Dual family household not dual income family. Huge difference. Multiple families equal more workers in the home meaning less hours per person needed. Pretty straightforward.

Should we address income inequality and corporate greed? Or force people to shack up like cockroaches?

Pretty straightforward.

 

[Blazers46]

That would be a great solution if house prices hadn't more than doubled since the idilic times you and Irish#1 are referencing. Yes if both parents are working 40+ hours per week vs one being home taking care of their children they will see their children less. Seems pretty straight forward.

Less space? Idk what you're even talking about.

The drawbacks to having one parent not be able to stay home beyond less time rearing children would be homemaking. If both parents are working full time jobs things like cooking, cleaning, bill paying, errands, etc all get shoved into nights and weekends.

Yes people outside of your bubble are miserable. I have a great life and am not miserable. My wife and I both have great jobs and can support our family. But I have compassion for the giant portion of my generation that is fucked by economic factors that are outside of their control. It's frustrating to see people ignore the obvious facts of the situation and blame it on them all being lazy or dumb and saying they should just stop spending money on vacations lol.

I have lived in both bubbles. Dirt poor Elkhart kid. Now I am coasting but it took lots blood sweat, stress and tears. I was a social worker for 10+ years but I do more outside of the weird red tape of government and social worker bullshit standards. I give more of my time and money to people I don’t know than I do know. You don’t believe in people, you believe in government.