College Football: End of an Era

[Blazers46]

Regular students can hold jobs and make money however they see fit... football players can now do the same. I think that's been the point of the argument the whole time: football players are treated as employees AND have to uphold certain academic standards, but were not free to share in the profits of their enterprise.

I used to be part of the "their scholarship is their payment" crowd, but my personal views have evolved.

The guys at the top of the schools and the sport in general have already forever altered the landscape for the sake of lining their pockets to a deeper degree with TV money, and they did this before NIL was a thing... why shouldn't the players' benefits also increase?

Fair point and I agree.

For the sake of argument I talk to a number of research students at Notre Dame, a lot of them make about $40,000 per year that they receive as a stipend from the graduate program. I think they may have even bumped that up to about $45,000. That money is well-deserved. I have never heard anyone argue that graduate students should not be receiving these stipends. I am not sure how much these research departments at Notre Dame generate but I would assume it’s a lot of money. I really do not see how football is any different in regard to generating revenue. Obviously one is a game played on a field for entertainment purposes, but if you are generating revenue for the university, just like your average research graduate student I have no problem with you getting paid your fair share.

 

[rikkitikki08]

The first thing I thought about was how this is going to royally screw up a lot of olympic sports across the country

I have no problem with kids making money but the universities paying for it outright is going to open a whole new can of worms I don’t believe is going to be good for the longevity of college sports

 

[Hautian Domer]

Yep that's it for me. Why doesn't anyone think of the poor schools? How are the players going to be expected to compete for championships? They're getting paid now! No other sports league's have players competing AND getting paid. Wow!


Distinct wank off

It’s not the “poor schools,” it’s that the entire product has been tainted.

Either you’ve been comatose, a SEC fan, or just generally a casual fan if you think the product has moved into a positive direction the past 20-25 years.

We’ve had no parity / SEC reign, conference re-alignments/conference deaths (RIP PAC 12, 100+ year conference, rivalries and traditions), rivalries ruined (Nebraska-Oklahoma, Texas-Texas A&M, Oregon-Oregon State, Washington - Washington State, Pitt-Penn State, Nebraska-Colorado, Kansas-Missouri, etc), two league “super conference” (SEC and B1G) rendering all others obsolete (who really cares to watch those other conferences now), piped in music/“DJs” at games taking over the band, paying players, players transferring at the drop of a hat, players opting out, and so forth….

It’s not the same. It’s changed drastically and overnight. But if you love the new changes, more power to you.

 

[Hautian Domer]

Maybe paying players will help some with parity, but I’m dubious of that. I don’t think schools like Baylor, SMU, Wake Forest, Oklahoma State will be able to “buy” a championship. Who knows? Maybe I’m wrong, but if they do, it’ll be a one-off and they won’t be building or maintaining a program. It’ll just be that — a purchased championship. Neat…

I have a feeling the SEC schools (due to talent proximity) and your traditional “big programs” (Ohio State, Oregon, USC, Michigan and such) will stay in power, if not increase.

 

[Ndaccountant]

It’s not the “poor schools,” it’s that the entire product has been tainted.

Either you’ve been comatose, a SEC fan, or just generally a casual fan if you think the product has moved into a positive direction the past 20-25 years.

We’ve had no parity / SEC reign, conference re-alignments/conference deaths (RIP PAC 12, 100+ year conference, rivalries and traditions), rivalries ruined (Nebraska-Oklahoma, Texas-Texas A&M, Oregon-Oregon State, Washington - Washington State, Pitt-Penn State, Nebraska-Colorado, Kansas-Missouri, etc), two league “super conference” (SEC and B1G) rendering all others obsolete (who really cares to watch those other conferences now), piped in music/“DJs” at games taking over the band, paying players, players transferring at the drop of a hat, players opting out, and so forth….

It’s not the same. It’s changed drastically and overnight. But if you love the new changes, more power to you.

It has changed. But it's popularity has grown too. It's difficult to see change, but that's the world in a nutshell.

 

[Blazers46]

Maybe paying players will help some with parity, but I’m dubious of that. I don’t think schools like Baylor, SMU, Wake Forest, Oklahoma State will be able to “buy” a championship. Who knows? Maybe I’m wrong, but if they do, it’ll be a one-off and they won’t be building or maintaining a program. It’ll just be that — a purchased championship. Neat…

I have a feeling the SEC schools (due to talent proximity) and your traditional “big programs” (Ohio State, Oregon, USC, Michigan and such) will stay in power, if not increase.

I’m not sure what the alternative is. It’s cringy seeing all the money being thrown around and the players not seeing any of it. But it’s also changing the dynamics of college football. What would be a healthy solution? Creating a NFL G League?

 

[Ndaccountant]

As we said before, ND invented the alt jersey and we forgot that. You can also point to ND being the pioneer on the TV revenue landscape.

1950 ND and a few other schools entered into contracts to televise regionally, which the NCAA freaked out about and it lead to threats of antitrust lawsuits (sound familiar?). NCAA controlled TV rights thereafter, but ND experimented with workarounds, including broadcasting the games the night after they were played.

By the early 80s, schools realized they could broadcast many more games and filed antitrust with the NCAA and won, which meant schools now co trolled their TV rights. Most schools, including ND, negioted jointly thru the CFA. That was until 1991, when ND left the CFA and entered into agreement with NBC. From there, the SEC then left and got their CBS contract and we all know what has played out the last 30+ years.

But we need to remember that ND pioneered much of this over the last 80 years. We may dislike the change as the money grew exponentially, but ND started the domino chain.

 

[Ndaccountant]

By the way, ND leaving the CFA also changed the landscape of conference affiliation. When ND bolted the CFA, many schools realized the money they were leaving on the table by not aligning more strategically to negotiate TV revenue. That is when the more prominent Independent schools joined conferences.

 

[Domina Nostra]

You should be able to profit off of your abilities, period. Being a college athlete shouldn’t preclude you from doing so. If kids can rake millions for unboxing toys on YouTube, then so should Sam Hartman. If some college kid can make millions streaming himself playing video games on Twitch, then so should Audric be able to.

The “they get a full ride” argument is so tired. Look, I fully value education—especially a college education. I had a full academic ride that paid for just as much of my schools as any athlete at Indiana State. And what did I bring to the table for the university? An uncanny ability to miss way too many of my 8am classes after consuming a few dozen too many Busch Lattes.

Let the kids make scratch off their abilities and their willingness to put their bodies on the line to make literal billions for the university. The education just isn’t an equitable ROI in the year of our lord 2023.

Tired? All the "pay the players" people are confusing the right for dedicated athletes to play minor league professional sports--which no one disputes--and the right of a bunch of schools to set up amateur sports teams comprised of their students, to benefit the students and the schools.

If college football, like college swimming, generated no income, no one would argue that a football scholarship to, say, Notre Dame or Duke was worthless. It's only arguably worthless once the pie get big enough to drive people crazy wondering why they aren't getting a slice.

And whether an education from many colleges is "worth it" has become an open question. Obviously Indiana State and Northwestern are going to pose a different analysis. But baseball players at Indiana State aren't going to get paid anything one way or the other. There will be no money. And a degree from Northwestern is valuable.

And why on Earth should any taxpayer support a university team of non-students that divides any profits from the sport among the athletic department, coaching staff, and players? What does that have to do with anything? That sounds to me like a minor league team.

"Introducing, the Tuscaloosa Crimson Tide, brought to you by Limbaugh Toyota and the University of Alabama."

No doubt, the colleges have created the problem by focusing on maximizing university income at the expense of everything else--including the athlete's educations. But that doesn't mean that amateur sports is some crime against the working class.

 

[NDohio]

If the players are paid directly by the Universities then maybe, just maybe, these employees can be signed to multi-year contracts and the portal craziness may slow down.

 

[jprue24]

Let me shed a tear for these poor academic institutions that paid 200 million in coaching buyouts in 2023.

Fuck them and the bed the made themselves because they arrogantly believed that they would continue to get away with this. Even after the winds had clearly changed. This is fantastic news. Less exploitation is always good.

If accurately compensating labor breaks an organization, then that gravy train deserves to be broken.

 

[AvesEvo]

The argument I always hear for paying athletes, at least football and men's basketball, is that they make the university millions of dollars. I think this gives the impression that admin is using these sports to make themselves rich, but for the most part, isn't that money invested into academic departments, scholarships, other sports and activities, and coach pay?

 

[TorontoGold]

Do you only post in sarcasm? You sound like a 12 year old.
What is the point of students and players pretending they're the same when one of those groups is being converted to employees?

And Jordan Faison is as much Rudy as Clay Mathews was.

If you have no understanding of how college football is devolving into minor league football, like I said congrats. For those that it's clear to, it's a depressing time.

Should I be upset that my finance job doesn't feel like Wolf on Wall Street? Seriously, if your reality isn't the same as a dramatized movie and you're upset, it may be time to take a step back and reevaluate.

I think I have a fairly good understanding of the direction of how CFB is developing, and players having increased bargaining power is hardly near the top of my concerns. I would maybe start with the consolidation of schools into a few conferences.

 

[stlnd01]

The argument I always hear for paying athletes, at least football and men's basketball, is that they make the university millions of dollars. I think this gives the impression that admin is using these sports to make themselves rich, but for the most part, isn't that money invested into academic departments, scholarships, other sports and activities, and coach pay?

I mean, these universities are either public or tax-exempt nonprofits. They are not (at this point anyway), owned by investors who are seeking a return (i.e. "get rich.". They're pretty much legally obligated to re-invest the money back into the institution in one way or another. After they pay their coaches and massive athletic department staff of course.

I still contend that all this would've been avoided if they'd given players a cut of video game and jersey sales 15 years ago, instead of suspending kids because someone bought them dinner. But here we are.

 

[GowerND11]

I think it is totally understandable for those of us that have been fans of college football for a long time are feeling a certain way.

I think it's also totally understandable that people are in favor of change in regards to player compensation and more.

 

[a mike]

Its going to be amusing watching legislators/public opinion want both a free market compensation model for football and basketball players while also having an expectation to maintain Title IX at the same time

I've got to no problem with the players getting theirs and the colleges having to pony up

But now I don't think legislators/public opinion have a leg to stand on attempting to force schools to keep around their non-revenue generating sports

Can't have it both ways

And if they drop Title IX every school in the country will drop their non-revenue generating sports the very next day

Then no athletic scholarships for thousands of graduating high school kids each year

 

[Irish du Nord]

Im curious how this would apply to walk ons from an roster number point of view

 

[HouseofPain]

What is amazing to me is how ND sat on all the money for all that time. How they didnt want to pay the big coach salaries, do the upgrades for amenities, etc for so long just raking in the big bucks. Yet now, they open the purse strings because they have no choice. It is either that or become irrelevant and they know it. But even with all the expenditure, ND still makes a mountain of cash. Just wonder who was pocketing all the money all that time when they didnt want to spend any of it?

 

[Blazers46]

Should I be upset that my finance job doesn't feel like Wolf on Wall Street?

If I had to pick one IE poster that was on Cocaine it would have been you. I’m sorely disappointed you post some of this stuff clean. 😜

 

[ColinKSU]

Regular students can hold jobs and make money however they see fit... football players can now do the same. I think that's been the point of the argument the whole time: football players are treated as employees AND have to uphold certain academic standards, but were not free to share in the profits of their enterprise.

I used to be part of the "their scholarship is their payment" crowd, but my personal views have evolved.

The guys at the top of the schools and the sport in general have already forever altered the landscape for the sake of lining their pockets to a deeper degree with TV money, and they did this before NIL was a thing... why shouldn't the players' benefits also increase?

I was definitely in the "scholarship is the payment" camp, but it's harder and harder to think of a defense when one side gets more unbelievably rich with each contract, while the side that the sport literally can't exist without remains unpaid.

 

[ColinKSU]

Its going to be amusing watching legislators/public opinion want both a free market compensation model for football and basketball players while also having an expectation to maintain Title IX at the same time

I've got to no problem with the players getting theirs and the colleges having to pony up

But now I don't think legislators/public opinion have a leg to stand on attempting to force schools to keep around their non-revenue generating sports

Can't have it both ways

And if they drop Title IX every school in the country will drop their non-revenue generating sports the very next day

Then no athletic scholarships for thousands of graduating high school kids each year

It's almost like the current conference structure that sees UCLA Men's and Women's tennis travel to Piscataway, New Jersey, for a regular season contest with Rutgers that no one knows is happening is completely unsustainable outside of a handful of sports.

 

[ColinKSU]

Checkmate to all the dorks who say stars don’t matter in recruiting.

 

[forkbeard3777]

Checkmate to all the dorks who say stars don’t matter in recruiting.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

It has changed. But it's popularity has grown too. It's difficult to see change, but that's the world in a nutshell.

Attendance is down overall (though the last two years have bumped upwards) and the higher television ratings are an illusion brought about by changes in how they are calculated.

CFB's popularity peaked about 20 years ago. They have just gotten a lot better at monetizing popularity.

 

[Blazers46]

Attendance is down overall (though the last two years have bumped upwards) and the higher television ratings are an illusion brought about by changes in how they are calculated.

CFB's popularity peaked about 20 years ago. They have just gotten a lot better at monetizing popularity.

I have been curious about that. There were stadiums I went to years ago with a packed stadium only to return last season and it seemed down. And maybe it’s my old age and people grow out of things but my usual group of friends that talk sports seem to be a little less interested in the game but still keep up with the scores.

 

[forkbeard3777]

What's next? The players bringing a declaratory judgment action for determination of their status (i.e., they are "employees" and not "students")?

The positive is if they're employees, then the contractual relationship should, in theory, result in less roster volatility. You can now make them sign multi-year contracts, set a salary cap, and buyout.

 

[Blazers46]

What's next? The players bringing a declaratory judgment action for determination of their status (i.e., they are "employees" and not "students")?

The positive is if they're employees, then the contractual relationship should, in theory, result in less roster volatility. You can now make them sign multi-year contracts, set a salary cap, and buyout.

Imagine a player suing Rivals or 247 for a bad star rating.

 

[forkbeard3777]

Attendance is down overall (though the last two years have bumped upwards) and the higher television ratings are an illusion brought about by changes in how they are calculated.

CFB's popularity peaked about 20 years ago. They have just gotten a lot better at monetizing popularity.

Attendance is definitely down at LSU. TS is damn near empty in the 3rd and 4th quarters. A lot of that has to do with other factors, however (cost, the world's worst traffic and contraflow, the university's admin. making it more difficult to park and tailgate, people would rather tailgate and/or watch it on the tv, the more "corporate" atmosphere).

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I have been curious about that. There were stadiums I went to years ago with a packed stadium only to return last season and it seemed down. And maybe it’s my old age and people grow out of things but my usual group of friends that talk sports seem to be a little less interested in the game but still keep up with the scores.

I'm having trouble finding numbers that go back further (google gets worse every year) but here's what I can find in a CBS article which has a chart going back to 2014:

2014	44,603	-1,068
2015	43,933	-670
2016	43,612	-321
2017	42,203	-1,409
2018	41,856	-347
2019	41,477	-379
2021	39,848*	-1,629
2022	41,840	+1,992
2023	41, 867^	+27

EDIT: I see google's generative AI is telling me that in 2008 it was 46,971 per game

 

[a mike]

CFB's popularity peaked about 20 years ago.

Spectator sports will slowly decline in popularity over time as the younger people who are used to more of the ad hoc/niche and generally short duration type entertainment get older and older people who grew up watching entertainment thru a more traditional TV format die

Same phenomenon that has happened to the newspaper and magazine industry slowly over time. And will eventually happen to the network stations like ABC, NBC, CBS

Just way more competing entertainment options available nowadays than 20-30 years ago