College Football: End of an Era

Jiggafini19Deux

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I've got no problem with NIL, collectives, players getting straight-up paid to play, etc. There's a stupid amount of money being thrown around in the sport, idc that the players are getting a piece now. That's not what's ruining the sport (certain teams have always been paying their players, the sport hasn't suddenly been soiled... but that's in "The Bagman" thread).

HOWEVER.... I think free, no-penalty transfers COMBINED with NIL/collectives is a problem. They need to find a way to walk back the roster churn. There needs to be some incentive for schools to recruit guys that will stay and develop, there needs to be incentive for PLAYERS that will stay and develop, and there needs to be a penalty if you want to jump around for the second time in 2 years.

I'm okay with a free, one-time transfer... but a 4th-year player getting a waiver to attend his 3rd school, happening all over the sport, seems weird to me. I can't explain it. My beliefs on the free market for players' services mean I should also support the free, unfettered movement of athletes as they see fit. But I don't.
I think this is where most people are at. There isn't this kind of movement in the four North American professional leagues.

That being said, when people like Saban and Dabo blow smoke about how things need to change, you can't help but laugh. These guys were the ones who had it all five years ago and now things changed for them so they want to walk it back to where things were when they were on top. It's only natural that human instinct would make these guys try to hold onto what they have rather than lose it, but ultimately their words ring hollow. Especially Saban. I can't even imagine what kind of under the table things were happening in that program prior to NIL.

I'm a lot more focused on who is saying everything is destroyed and ending in addition to what their motives might be for saying it.
 

Lberry

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He's right as always. You can have NIL, you can have transfer portal, but they need to be mutually exclusive. It's not more complicated than that. NIL no limit, but only to school you commit to. Or transfer across the world, but not due to tampering/NIL.

This solution should take 10 minutes. If players don't like it they don't have to go to college for free.
 
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ndfanatic78

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I've got no problem with NIL, collectives, players getting straight-up paid to play, etc. There's a stupid amount of money being thrown around in the sport, idc that the players are getting a piece now. That's not what's ruining the sport (certain teams have always been paying their players, the sport hasn't suddenly been soiled... but that's in "The Bagman" thread).

HOWEVER.... I think free, no-penalty transfers COMBINED with NIL/collectives is a problem. They need to find a way to walk back the roster churn. There needs to be some incentive for schools to recruit guys that will stay and develop, there needs to be incentive for PLAYERS that will stay and develop, and there needs to be a penalty if you want to jump around for the second time in 2 years.

I'm okay with a free, one-time transfer... but a 4th-year player getting a waiver to attend his 3rd school, happening all over the sport, seems weird to me. I can't explain it. My beliefs on the free market for players' services mean I should also support the free, unfettered movement of athletes as they see fit. But I don't.
I dont think there should be any penalties as far as institutions making kids sit if they transfer. I am basically at the point if the coaches can do it than so should the kids. Maybe the collectives can start making the kids sign multi-year contracts like the coaches do and include buyout clauses if they want to transfer. The down side to that is if the kid doesn't work out you are stuck paying him even if he's not productive on the field.
 
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benneboy

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He's right as always. You can have NIL, you can have transfer portal, but they need to be mutually exclusive. It's not more complicated than that.

NIL no limit, but only to school you commit to. Or transfer across the world, but not due to tampering/NIL.

This solution should take 10 minutes, not complicated. If players don't like it they don't have to go to college for free.
He's right about the transfer portal. The NIL stuff comes off as sour grapes. It would be the equivalent of Mark McGuire getting all up in arms if baseball were to legalize steroids and that impacted his career.
 

Ndaccountant

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It's as popular as ever. The players are actually getting paid for their services and getting their piece of the pie. They are no longer indentured servants, as for the majority of kids, the education they received wasn't worth the piece of paper their diplomas were printed on if they even got one. I would hardly say the sport is destroyed because the kids actually can make money while playing in college and have the right to move freely and not be held hostage by one university.
Agree. As a fan of one school, I don't like the challenges it presents. However, I do think it's equitable considering how much money people are making on this. ESPN just agreed to spend 8B to cover the CFP. As of now, the players see nothing of that. It's far from balanced even with these changes.
 

Ndaccountant

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He's right as always. You can have NIL, you can have transfer portal, but they need to be mutually exclusive. It's not more complicated than that. NIL no limit, but only to school you commit to. Or transfer across the world, but not due to tampering/NIL.

This solution should take 10 minutes. If players don't like it they don't have to go to college for free.
So, everyone associated with the sport can move freely and get paid except for the players? Nah.

Make them employees, which won't happen because it would require revenue sharing and that is much more painful for the schools. Put a scholarship as a contract and the players are free to sign any length coming out of school. Put school or player options on it. That fixes both issues easily, but messes up the schools that have been fiscally irresponsible with the imbalanced windfall from college athletics the last 20+ years.
 

forkbeard3777

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I've got no problem with NIL, collectives, players getting straight-up paid to play, etc. There's a stupid amount of money being thrown around in the sport, idc that the players are getting a piece now. That's not what's ruining the sport (certain teams have always been paying their players, the sport hasn't suddenly been soiled... but that's in "The Bagman" thread).

HOWEVER.... I think free, no-penalty transfers COMBINED with NIL/collectives is a problem. They need to find a way to walk back the roster churn. There needs to be some incentive for schools to recruit guys that will stay and develop, there needs to be incentive for PLAYERS that will stay and develop, and there needs to be a penalty if you want to jump around for the second time in 2 years.

I'm okay with a free, one-time transfer... but a 4th-year player getting a waiver to attend his 3rd school, happening all over the sport, seems weird to me. I can't explain it. My beliefs on the free market for players' services mean I should also support the free, unfettered movement of athletes as they see fit. But I don't.
I agree with all this; however, if we press forward with a “pay for play” system, there needs to be some contractual protections and incentives, imo.
 

Huntr

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Federal judge issues an injunction against the NCAA re:NIL rules.

There are now no NCAA restrictions on NIL.

 

stlnd01

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It is really remarkable how much the NCAA fucked themselves over by not allowing players to get a cut of video game money and jersey sales 15 years ago. Like any business relationship, there needed to be some give and take, and the people running college sports just took and took.
 

Huntr

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It is really remarkable how much the NCAA fucked themselves over by not allowing players to get a cut of video game money and jersey sales 15 years ago. Like any business relationship, there needed to be some give and take, and the people running college sports just took and took.


Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

Just took a bit to get there.
 

irishff1014

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I mean, he’s largely right. What we’ve created is an unrestricted, free agency “pay for play” system. Players receiving a cut from the sale of their jerseys or from EA Sports NCAA Football = NIL. The latter isn’t the driving force that governs our current system.

It’s just an example of what’s tarnishing college football and its traditions and ultimately making it more and more generic.

He was a main player in this. And now everyone one is doing it on his level he quit.
 

Wild Bill

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About tIt's as popular as ever. The players are actually getting paid for their services and getting their piece of the pie. They are no longer indentured servants, as for the majority of kids, the education they received wasn't worth the piece of paper their diplomas were printed on if they even got one. I would hardly say the sport is destroyed because the kids actually can make money while playing in college and have the right to move freely and not be held hostage by one university.
The current popularity of the sport has nothing to do with players getting paid. The masses aren't tuning in bc the freshman backup QB got a sweet nil package.
 

ndfanatic78

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The current popularity of the sport has nothing to do with players getting paid. The masses aren't tuning in bc the freshman backup QB got a sweet nil package.
Never said it was the most popular because of anything. My point was that nothing is destroying the sport, not players making money or players being able to transfer. In spite of that the game it’s at its most popular state. I know I didn’t quote it but I was responding to the point that people were saying they are destroying the sport. I mean to destroy the sport wouldn’t it need to be losing popularity? Wouldn’t it need to be losing money? Wouldn’t it need to be losing participants? Wouldn’t it need fans to stop consuming the merchandise and media? None of that is happening.
 
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HouseofPain

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Never said it was the most popular because of anything. My point was that nothing is destroying the sport, not players making money or players being able to transfer. In spite of that the game it’s at its most popular state. I know I didn’t quote it but I was responding to the point that people were saying they are destroying the sport. I mean to destroy the sport wouldn’t it need to be losing popularity? Wouldn’t it need to be losing money? Wouldn’t it need to be losing participants? Wouldn’t it need fans to stop consuming the merchandise and media? None of that is happening.
With that said, American morality is at its all time low and let's face it, Americans are all about themselves and their wants/desires with zero regard for doing what is right. This is by far the most al-about-me generation the world has ever seen.
 

Giddyup

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That may be true but there is still a ton of good out there if u shut down the social media and get out in the real world.
 

ndfanatic78

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With that said, American morality is at its all time low and let's face it, Americans are all about themselves and their wants/desires with zero regard for doing what is right. This is by far the most al-about-me generation the world has ever seen.
I don’t see that. Everyone always think they live in the worst of times. Charities are taking in massive funds. I see people helping others all the time. Crime is/has been on a constant decline, with blimps in the rise of crime here and there, but since stats have been collected it is on the decline over time. This country was founded on individualism, selfishness, and looking out for yourself so I think we have come a long way. I don’t see the bleakness you do.
 
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Lberry

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With that said, American morality is at its all time low and let's face it, Americans are all about themselves and their wants/desires with zero regard for doing what is right. This is by far the most al-about-me generation the world has ever seen.
This view of SF (or LA, Portland, NY, Chicago for that matter) is a perfect visualization of the arc America is on. People who chalk it up as "every gen says that" are off, IMO. It shouldn't be a surprise, almost every civiliations that rises declines after a peak around ~250 years.

 
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1rishftw

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This view of SF (or LA, Portland, NY, Chicago for that matter) is a perfect visualization of the arc America is on. People who chalk it up as "every gen says that" are off, IMO. It shouldn't be a surprise, almost every civiliations that rises declines after a peak around ~250 years.


Using random ass twitter edits as proof 😂
 

1rishftw

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Want to talk objectively? Poverty levels? Homeless? ODs? Suicide rate? Diagnosed depression? Population health?

You're way out of your league here.
Not like society hasn't degraded obviously but it's naive to think the early to mid 1900s were "peak america" they had their faults as well
 

ndfanatic78

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Not like society hasn't degraded obviously but it's naive to think the early to mid 1900s were "peak america" they had their faults as well
Like segregation and lynchings, the whole need to create the FBI because of the crime wave, and that thing called the great depression. Let’s see the rise of fascism, the continued eradication of the First Nations, and the mass polluting of water ways. The subjugation of the working class, the sweat shops, and horrendous hygiene. Not to mention the horrendous conditions for women rights. The doctors were actually prescribing tobacco. Bloodletting was an actual medical practice. The early 1900’s was such a great time, for the top 10% male white property owners. It’s so crazy how people glorify the past when again by every measurable statistic things are better today even though we still have a long way to go.
 
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stlnd01

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I could stand outside my office building in downtown Boston any day next week and shoot something resembling that video of The Good Old Days.

I could go back to 1928 or 1946 or whenever that video came from and find images of crime and urban squalor that would resemble whatever you think goes on in Chicago today.

Objectively, sure, some things are worse than they used to be (overdose deaths, for instance).
Others? Better. (Since 1950, average life expectancy in the US has risen by a decade). People believe what they want to believe, about a lot of this stuff. Every generation has its challenges.

None of it has fuckall to do with the popularity of college football or whatever started this conversation.
 

Wild Bill

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Never said it was the most popular because of anything. My point was that nothing is destroying the sport, not players making money or players being able to transfer. In spite of that the game it’s at its most popular state. I know I didn’t quote it but I was responding to the point that people were saying they are destroying the sport. I mean to destroy the sport wouldn’t it need to be losing popularity? Wouldn’t it need to be losing money? Wouldn’t it need to be losing participants? Wouldn’t it need fans to stop consuming the merchandise and media? None of that is happening.
Proponents of the current system like to highlight the sport's popularity as evidence of its success, implying a correlation between the two. Maybe that wasn't your intent, but it's often the underlying motive when people bring up the sport's popularity in these discussions. The real driving force behind this surge is gambling, plain and simple.

NIL has zero impact on the audience. Casual fans have no clue what the hell is going on and gamblers are only concerned with their own financial gains. Opinions are likely divided among loyal fans, and my guess is that only a minimal number of fans opposed to NIL have actually stopped watching the games.

The transfer portal does add some buzz to the sport during the offseason, no doubt. Player movement generates clicks and increases podcast audiences, but does it actually translate to more people actually watching the games? Hard to say. The gains made by some teams through player movement may be offset by losses experienced by others. So, is there a net increase in viewership overall? Maybe but it's not moving the needle like gambling.

The bolded is a very relevant question, posed rhetorical way (I believe), and it shouldn't be. Most businesses and/or entities, even those at the top, are just a few poor decisions or policy changes away from disaster, and college football is no exception. I'm sure the people in charge point to the ratings to justify their decision making, and mistakenly believe that things can only improve from here.

Maybe they'll continue boosting viewership through gambling, capitalizing on the perpetual influx of 18-year-olds who are dying to piss away their money on a parlay. I would prioritize building a loyal fanbase alongside catering to the degenerate gamblers. I really don't know how to acheive this, but a guy like Saban may have some insights. I understand it's very fashionable to dismiss Saban's recent comments, and perhaps those in charge will do just that. His comprehension of the sport is unparalleled. Not only in terms of football knowledge but also in running a program, dealing with boosters, administration, staff, and players. He understands the intricacies better than anyone, and only a fool would ignore his advice, criticisms, or warnings.
 

NDRock

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I always laugh when the previous generation talks about how bad the current generation is. Who the hell do you think raised them? I’m 47, been hearing the same thing my whole life. Older people always think they were smarter, tougher, and more hard working than today’s kids.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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I always laugh when the previous generation talks about how bad the current generation is. Who the hell do you think raised them? I’m 47, been hearing the same thing my whole life. Older people always think they were smarter, tougher, and more hard working than today’s kids.
Same. I leave shit talking about younger generations to others. I'm 46 and I honestly have zero beef with Millennials or Gen Z. They've come up through an entirely different world than I ever did.
 

forkbeard3777

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How Alabama moved from Nick Saban to Kalen DeBoer in 49 hours.

Pretty good read if you have the time. This one passage really stuck out to me:

Once back in Tuscaloosa, as Saban began meeting with players, it became even more apparent to him that his message wasn't resonating like it once did.

"I thought we could have a hell of a team next year, and then maybe 70 or 80 percent of the players you talk to, all they want to know is two things: What assurances do I have that I'm going to play because they're thinking about transferring, and how much are you going to pay me?" Saban recounted. "Our program here was always built on how much value can we create for your future and your personal development, academic success in graduating and developing an NFL career on the field.

"So I'm saying to myself, 'Maybe this doesn't work anymore, that the goals and aspirations are just different and that it's all about how much money can I make as a college player?' I'm not saying that's bad. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying that's never been what we were all about, and it's not why we had success through the years."
 

NDFAN420

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Jiggafini19Deux

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"Our program here was always built on how much value can we create for your future and your personal development, academic success in graduating and developing an NFL career on the field.
Says the guy who received multiple bonuses of $100K plus for having graduation rates that didn't even touch 90% when he was at Alabama.

Give me a fucking break already.
 
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