Politics

[TorontoGold]

Stay focused. The discussion was about kids and trans care, not overall healthcare.

Remember when you didn't respond to Gattaca trying to engage in a discussion with you? You saying someone else should stay focused is hilarious.

To my post - It highlights that GOP'ers don't actually care about all kids, they just care about making trans kids lives worse.

 

[RDU Irish]

Stay focused. The discussion was about kids and trans care, not overall healthcare.

Vortex, engaged. Crap, looks like I'm getting drawn in!

Can we call it what it is. The American Sick Care System. Our culture looks to everyone put themselves to pursue life, liberty and happiness. Doctors don't have time for healthy people, they want frequent fliers. Once you are on a pill you have to come back to get it refilled. Once you are on a pill, you are closer to your second pill than going back to none. Horse paste for 2 cents is laughable, must go for new shiny, unproven object and mock the cheap decades old pill into oblivion. Only new designer stuff works (as long as you ignore the mile long fine print of side effects that may include rectal bleeding, cancer, loss of sight, shortness of breath, diarrhea, toes to fall off, hair loss, hair gain, do not take if you are pregnant or overweight or underweight, if you bleed from your ear holes please consult your doctor.)

We want kids getting free sick care so we can get more of them treated ASAP for ADHD, depression or anxiety. 11% of Americans over age 12 are on depression meds. One fifth of adults have received mental health treatment in the last 12 months - 16% taking some type of medication - the side effect of most being as bad or worse than the problem they claim to help.

Products - Data Briefs - Number 76 - October 2011.

Products - Data Briefs - Number 419 - October 2021.

Keep in mind that "healthcare" includes gender affirming care and fertility treatments but not hearing aids or dental work.

 

[GATTACA!]

Agreed on the first part - If republicans wanted to fix it they would have passed comprehensive reform under Trump. They fought him the whole way and wouldn't even fund the wall.

Vehemently disagree on placing this on businesses - now that one out of ten people in this country are here illegally it is pretty damn ridiculous put the full force of the legal system on businesses and individuals for hiring the people the government enabled across the border. Absurd to let these people in and THEN forbid them from working to support themselves unless they steal someone's identity or work in the black market economy. First act in our country is to break the law (entering illegally) and the system is set up such that they pretty much HAVE to keep breaking the law to support themselves which has no negative consequence for them..... but fine the business - brilliant! And all anyone wants to talk about is pathways to citizenship or else you are a racist xenophobes.

I'm not blaming the businesses. If the laws aren't going to be enforced then they'd be stupid not to take advantage of the cheap labor. If the Texas GOP and their constituents want to continue to cry about illegal immigration they should do something about the actual problem. Stopping their businesses from hiring illegals is about 10x easier and more cost effective than building a 1,200 mile wall.

I was asked what actions the state of Texas could take right now to stop illegal immigration since border security is a federal responsibility. The answer is to remove the incentive for people to cross the border in the first place. Why are people only flooding in through Mexico and not Canada? It's simple economics. If the people trying to get here could no longer support themselves once they came in illegally they would stop doing it.

Republicans suck worse than Dems on this issue by a mile - because they stand for nothing. They use the "business hiring illegals" cudgel just as much as Dems b/c they shake down their donors to get feds to look the other way.

The truth is that neither side actually cares. Both parties know that illegal immigration is a net positive economically. Illegals pay more than their fair share in taxes and do menial jobs that American citizens don't want to do at salaries that would otherwise be illegal. The price to the economy of hypothetically removing every illegal with a snap of your fingers would be astronomical. Prepare to pay $13 for a carton of strawberries, etc. Not to mention the long term consequences of not replacing the losses of our rapidly dropping fertility rate.

 

[Irish#1]

Remember when you didn't respond to Gattaca trying to engage in a discussion with you? You saying someone else should stay focused is hilarious.

To my post - It highlights that GOP'ers don't actually care about all kids, they just care about making trans kids lives worse.

I did respond to him, but glad I was able to make you laugh.

 

[TorontoGold]

I did respond to him, but glad I was able to make you laugh.

You responded to this one? Would be nice to read your thoughts on it.

Asking qualifiers means there's presumably some set of circumstances that would make you feel it was appropriate, no?

 

[Irish#1]

Vortex, engaged. Crap, looks like I'm getting drawn in!

Can we call it what it is. The American Sick Care System. Our culture looks to everyone put themselves to pursue life, liberty and happiness. Doctors don't have time for healthy people, they want frequent fliers. Once you are on a pill you have to come back to get it refilled. Once you are on a pill, you are closer to your second pill than going back to none. Horse paste for 2 cents is laughable, must go for new shiny, unproven object and mock the cheap decades old pill into oblivion. Only new designer stuff works (as long as you ignore the mile long fine print of side effects that may include rectal bleeding, cancer, loss of sight, shortness of breath, diarrhea, toes to fall off, hair loss, hair gain, do not take if you are pregnant or overweight or underweight, if you bleed from your ear holes please consult your doctor.)

We want kids getting free sick care so we can get more of them treated ASAP for ADHD, depression or anxiety. 11% of Americans over age 12 are on depression meds. One fifth of adults have received mental health treatment in the last 12 months - 16% taking some type of medication - the side effect of most being as bad or worse than the problem they claim to help.

Products - Data Briefs - Number 76 - October 2011.

Products - Data Briefs - Number 419 - October 2021.

Keep in mind that "healthcare" includes gender affirming care and fertility treatments but not hearing aids or dental work.

Bonus points for the fine print.

Went to the doctor in December for arthritis in my hip. Been tolerating it for about 5-6 years. For the last year it's gotten to the point where it was waking me up 3-4 times a night. Physician Assistant gives me a med but doesn't want me to use it unless necessary because it raises BP. Got in to see my regular doc last week. He says the new med doesn't affect BP and, it is one that has to been taken regularly to build up as it doesn't provide immediate relief. He also switched my BP medicine from what she prescribed. This is twice now where two different PA's acted like they know what is best for me without listening to what I was telling them. At least my doctor listens.

 

[Irish#1]

You responded to this one? Would be nice to read your thoughts on it.

 

[TorontoGold]

Live look at you trying to respond to someone else who isn't me with actual words and thoughts that aren't "Toronto Man BAD"

 

[RDU Irish]

I'm not blaming the businesses. If the laws aren't going to be enforced then they'd be stupid not to take advantage of the cheap labor. If the Texas GOP and their constituents want to continue to cry about illegal immigration they should do something about the actual problem. Stopping their businesses from hiring illegals is about 10x easier and more cost effective than building a 1,200 mile wall.

I was asked what actions the state of Texas could take right now to stop illegal immigration since border security is a federal responsibility. The answer is to remove the incentive for people to cross the border in the first place. Why are people only flooding in through Mexico and not Canada? It's simple economics. If the people trying to get here could no longer support themselves once they came in illegally they would stop doing it.

The truth is that neither side actually cares. Both parties know that illegal immigration is a net positive economically. Illegals pay more than their fair share in taxes and do menial jobs that American citizens don't want to do at salaries that would otherwise be illegal. The price to the economy of hypothetically removing every illegal with a snap of your fingers would be astronomical. Prepare to pay $13 for a carton of strawberries, etc. Not to mention the long term consequences of not replacing the losses of our rapidly dropping fertility rate.

You are correct that deporting all the illegals is impractical and economically suicidal. Work visas and a promise you will never be granted citizenship seems like a fair trade to me. If you don't come in the front door legally then citizenship should be off the table. Force those illegals into the black market so they can be more easily exploited - great idea. Uniparty likes exploitable people.

Why not prosecute businesses for serving illegals? Or jail teachers that teach them and administrators that enroll them in school? Why do the people hiring them have to pay the fines and take more blame than the politicians who perpetuate the problem and individuals who break the law in the first place? Punish the evil businesses because it's easy?

Immigration policy is economic policy - we aren't far off on that concept. Big door, visas galore and clean pathways for citizenship where it makes sense. Education visas should be recruiting the best and the brightest to stay with pathways for citizenship. If you give work visas and green cards - you have something meaningful to take away if they F up. It is just insulting to demand more documentation of citizens than you to visitors, legal or not.

 

[Irish#1]

Nancy, Nancy, Nancy

 

[Irish#1]

Live look at you trying to respond to someone else who isn't me with actual words and thoughts that aren't "Toronto Man BAD"

Nah, he’s a lot younger and better looking than me.

 

[GATTACA!]

You are correct that deporting all the illegals is impractical and economically suicidal. Work visas and a promise you will never be granted citizenship seems like a fair trade to me. If you don't come in the front door legally then citizenship should be off the table. Force those illegals into the black market so they can be more easily exploited - great idea. Uniparty likes exploitable people.

Why not prosecute businesses for serving illegals? Or jail teachers that teach them and administrators that enroll them in school? Why do the people hiring them have to pay the fines and take more blame than the politicians who perpetuate the problem and individuals who break the law in the first place? Punish the evil businesses because it's easy?

I think you must be missing the context of my posts. I'm not arguing that they should do this or that it's a good idea. In fact I think it's a pretty bad idea for the reasons I already listed. Someone asked me what Texas should do if THEY wanted to stop illegal immigration since border security isn't under their purview.

Cracking down on hiring illegals is just one idea of something they could have done at any point themselves since they've been complaining about this. But they won't address it because stopping illegal immigration would hurt them more than it helps them.

I never said businesses were evil. I actually said they would be dumb not to take advantage of the laws not being enforced. Enforcing those laws, to me is the most effective way to actually stop illegals from coming here. They won't be motivated by not being able to eat at restaurants (would you plan on checking IDs at every Chipotle?) Or not being able to send their kids to public schools. Whose interests is it in to have a bunch of illegal illiterate kids running around that can't even speak english?

Immigration policy is economic policy - we aren't far off on that concept. Big door, visas galore and clean pathways for citizenship where it makes sense. Education visas should be recruiting the best and the brightest to stay with pathways for citizenship. If you give work visas and green cards - you have something meaningful to take away if they F up. It is just insulting to demand more documentation of citizens than you to visitors, legal or not.

I agree with you on this, but the truth of the matter is that there are far more illegals in this country that overstayed their visas then there are that came across the border undocumented. That system needs a major overhaul too.

Immigration in general needs to be completely reworked but you're going to have republicans fighting against it at every turn because they know who most of those latinos will end up voting for once they gain citizenship.

 

[GATTACA!]

Nancy, Nancy, Nancy

Based. Lmao.

 

[ulukinatme]

Number of top surgeries done in the US was 282 in 2021 lol.

CDC says there was 3,659,289 so there were ~18,662 deaths at a rate of 5.1, at 4.3 you get ~15,735.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr020.pdf

There's more kids dying at birth than are getting top surgery by 10x if you just get to CA's levels, oh and the kids getting top surgery aren't dropping dead after it.

Pretty easy subject for Republicans to voice their concern on it, supposed to be the sanctity of life party, right? All children matter?

This is just an easy showcase that GOP'ers don't care about kids, it's never been more obvious than with trans kids.

That's some great logic, lets apply that to abortions now. How many babies get aborted each year? It's estimated that 930,160 abortions were performed in 2020. There's exponentially more babies dying in the womb than there are dying of other factors. Liberals strongly favor abortion, the number one killer of babies.

This is just an easy showcase that Democrats don't care about kids. They only care about killing them and mutilating the healthy ones.

BTW, the other five leading cause of death in babies are: birth defects, preterm birth/low birth weight, sudden infant death syndrome, injuries(suffocation, etc), maternal pregnancy complications. I'd love your input how the US can makeup that .8 difference given those factors. Canada has the same factors except they've swapped the last one for infections. Infections should be easier to control than pregnancy complications, but that's just me.

Just because you don't use your access to healthcare doesn't mean that there are people without that wouldn't use it. Also you say you don't go until something is wrong, lots of people don't even have that option. Or will brush off the obvious signs of something being horribly wrong in the hopes of it going away because they're so scared of going into insane healthcare debt.

Junk food isn't any more prevalent in the US than it is in Canada or the UK. The obvious reason our results are worse is because of access. Big insurance companies have brainwashed people into thinking the American way is the only way because they're the ones that make record breaking profit off of it every year.

That should never be a thing for the greatest country in world.

I was just making a point about culture. Many Americans may have access to health care, but that doesn't mean they use it. Junk food may also be prevalent in Canada, but 68.4 (per 100,000) Americans die every year due to obesity while only 40.8 Canadians die of the same. Obesity isn't the only difference. While smoking has been dropping for the last few decades, 92.6 Americans (per 100,000 again) die each year due to smoking related complications compared to 69.4 Canadians. We also have double the number of road accidents in comparison. I won't get into homicides. All those are factors in our lower life expectancy. Healthcare access is certainly a factor, I agree with you there, but it's not the only factor and probably not the biggest one. If it all came down to healthcare access we wouldn't have countries like Cyprus ahead of us with only 66% of their population insured. So obviously there are other factors like I mentioned that contribute to our lower life expectancy. We can certainly improve that number by reducing costs for middle class citizens, and we should be pushing for that, but tackling the other factors would go a long way too.

Why is life expectancy in the US lower than in other rich countries?

Americans have a lower life expectancy than people in other rich countries despite paying much more for healthcare. What factors may explain this?

ourworldindata.org

 

[Irish#1]

That's some great logic,

I'm still trying to figure out how having a baby (pretty much a natural process) and elective trans surgery for kids are related?

 

[RDU Irish]

I think you must be missing the context of my posts. I'm not arguing that they should do this or that it's a good idea. In fact I think it's a pretty bad idea for the reasons I already listed. Someone asked me what Texas should do if THEY wanted to stop illegal immigration since border security isn't under their purview.

Cracking down on hiring illegals is just one idea of something they could have done at any point themselves since they've been complaining about this. But they won't address it because stopping illegal immigration would hurt them more than it helps them.

I never said businesses were evil. I actually said they would be dumb not to take advantage of the laws not being enforced. Enforcing those laws, to me is the most effective way to actually stop illegals from coming here. They won't be motivated by not being able to eat at restaurants (would you plan on checking IDs at every Chipotle?) Or not being able to send their kids to public schools. Whose interests is it in to have a bunch of illegal illiterate kids running around that can't even speak english?

I agree with you on this, but the truth of the matter is that there are far more illegals in this country that overstayed their visas then there are that came across the border undocumented. That system needs a major overhaul too.

Immigration in general needs to be completely reworked but you're going to have republicans fighting against it at every turn because they know who most of those latinos will end up voting for once they gain citizenship.

Enforcing those laws on citizens while not enforcing the laws on illegals is reprehensible to me. I use the examples of turning illegals away in other areas to illustrate how it is "unfair" and "dangerous" to the illegals to deny them services but fining businesses is hunky dory. I appreciate you are not taking that full angle but it is the common theme in the debate that seems only motivated by maintaining the cluster F rather than even trying to fix it.

You might have missed the part where I said citizenship is off the table. I would take birthright off the table too. If I was a woman studying abroad and had a kid in Ireland would that baby be Irish? Hell no. Same rules as normal countries. Dreamers get visas and maybe a really long pathway to citizenship highly predicated on not being a criminal.

Latinos share a lot more R values than D values at the end of the day. Cubans and Venezuelans are as red as they come which should tell you something. The culture is as strong on family values and Christianity as any. Many that are legal have a lot of animosity toward illegal immigration b/c they had to work hard to do it right. Real conservatives see Latinos as a growth engine to embrace for philosophical reasons where RINOs only know how to buy votes through pandering, thus the belief that they need to grant amnesty to not be hated.

 

[ulukinatme]

I'm still trying to figure out how having a baby (pretty much a natural process) and elective trans surgery for kids are related?

Meteorologists confirmed via Doppler Radar that vortex signatures were spotted somewhere around post 27,517.

 

[TorontoGold]

That's some great logic, lets apply that to abortions now. How many babies get aborted each year? It's estimated that 930,160 abortions were performed in 2020. There's exponentially more babies dying in the womb than there are dying of other factors. Liberals strongly favor abortion, the number one killer of babies.

This is just an easy showcase that Democrats don't care about kids. They only care about killing them and mutilating the healthy ones.

BTW, the other five leading cause of death in babies are: birth defects, preterm birth/low birth weight, sudden infant death syndrome, injuries(suffocation, etc), maternal pregnancy complications. I'd love your input how the US can makeup that .8 difference given those factors. Canada has the same factors except they've swapped the last one for infections. Infections should be easier to control than pregnancy complications, but that's just me.

Abortions? Oh boy here we go 3rd trimester abortions are not anywhere close to 930,160 lol. Of course, you know that. Even more those 3rd trimester abortions are rarely done because the mother wants to abort that. Again, you already know that.

I'm still trying to figure out how having a baby (pretty much a natural process) and elective trans surgery for kids are related?

Must be a day ending in y if you're confused, maybe you're still trying to come up with original thoughts and not just chiding me that has you all turned around.

 

[drayer54]

Democrats have created a country where illegals can walk across the border, assault a cop, and then walk free.




Democrats being effective-

 

[Sea Turtle]

Democrats have created a country where illegals can walk across the border, assault a cop, and then walk free.




Democrats being effective-

What a spirit of lawlessness our society has become.

 

[GATTACA!]

What a spirit of lawlessness our society has become.

I think we should put and end to it by electing a president facing 91 criminal charges. Surely he respects the letter of the law.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I can't believe decriminalizing drugs led to more crime. I'm absolutely shocked. I had it on really good authority from all my leftist acquaintances that it would reduce crime and was a win-win for all.

 

[Irish#1]

Abortions? Oh boy here we go 3rd trimester abortions are not anywhere close to 930,160 lol. Of course, you know that. Even more those 3rd trimester abortions are rarely done because the mother wants to abort that. Again, you already know that.



Must be a day ending in y if you're confused, maybe you're still trying to come up with original thoughts and not just chiding me that has you all turned around.

Well, we all know you're the smartest guy here and me, I'm just an old boomer who wakes up confused on what day it is, but happy that I didn't piss the bed.

If you want to clarify how having a baby and elective trans surgery relate, then I'll be happy to read your post.

 

[Irish#1]

Democrats being effective-

This is like the guy that got a wish from the genie and wished his dick touched the ground. The genie granted his wish by removing his legs.

 

[TorontoGold]

Well, we all know you're the smartest guy here and me, I'm just an old boomer who wakes up confused on what day it is, but happy that I didn't piss the bed.

If you want to clarify how having a baby and elective trans surgery relate, then I'll be happy to read your post.

The point was hypocrisy in seeing outrage over trans surgery that happens to a handful of people per year vs something that indicates babies are dying a rate that is higher than a peer country.

I was questioning why there is a hyper fixation on this incredibly fringe thing vs another fringe thing that actually shows babies dying.

So, are you going to respond to Gattaca's question on your qualifiers or is it just going to be me more "vortex vortex vortex"

 

[Sea Turtle]

The point was hypocrisy in seeing outrage over trans surgery that happens to a handful of people per year vs something that indicates babies are dying a rate that is higher than a peer country.

I was questioning why there is a hyper fixation on this incredibly fringe thing vs another fringe thing that actually shows babies dying.

So, are you going to respond to Gattaca's question on your qualifiers or is it just going to be me more "vortex vortex vortex"

He's passionate about something he feels is wrong. Some people are passionate about other fringe things, like protecting Sea Turtles 😀

 

[ulukinatme]

He's passionate about something he feels is wrong. Some people are passionate about other fringe things, like protecting Sea Turtles 😀

Right. There's a lot of problems in the world. Discussing one particular issue doesn't mean a completely different issue isn't wrong also. Does Greta fight for them all, or is she focused mostly on climate?

 

[drayer54]

Starting to think Democracy is a failed experiment.

Bob Menendez is still being kept in the Senate by Chuck Schumer.
Omar is declaring allegiance to Somalia as a member of the House.




Now this,

Defund the police champion Cori Bush, who has worked hard to make St. Louis even more dangerous has been paying lots of money for security services from her now… husband.



The grown ups are in charge…

 

[RDU Irish]

I think a large swath of the populace expects this level of self dealing (Bush and Willis) and even congratulates them for "grabbing that bag" - not unlike Trump getting $300k of hair styling for his wife on the PAC dime. Same energy "defending" Biden's corruption - don't care and maybe even like that my side gets rewarded for their efforts.

Menendez and Omar are straight up treasonous - which should make them unelectable. How TF broken is the electorate that puts those MFers back in office and its not even close?

 

[Bluto]

I don't think anyone will argue with the fact that Biden has been a disaster.

Biden is going to crush Trump in the general. The GOP knows it too.

It’s kinda funny watching them driving full speed towards the cliff on that and not doing anything about it other than kiss the drivers ass.