Foreign Policy

[DillonHall]

This is the issue that needs to be answered. Very little attention being given to it yet (at least internationally). Lots of potential excuses being thrown out with very little real information.

Saw an interview between an Brett Weinstein and an independent writer who actually served in the Israeli army quite a while ago. She said that when she served on the border they would constantly be notified (by individuals monitoring sensors and cameras) to check out concerns along the border. Things as small as a cat. Given her experience, she basically said her mind can't comprehend how they breached so many areas of the border AND that it took HOURS for the Israeli army to respond.

I'm sure there will be a thorough investigation, but it's kind of ridiculous to expect that right now. They have much more pressing matters to attend to, including probably a prolonged land invasion.

For context, I don't think the 9/11 commission report was completed until 2004

 

[Bluto]

We should turn a blind eye while Israel does whatever they want to Gaza (hopefully they destroy it so that they never recover)

You do understand that there are Palestinians who are Christians and reside in Gaza?

 

[DillonHall]

You do understand that there are Palestinians who are Christians and reside in Gaza?

I don't see much value to keeping Gaza. There are at most 1000 Christians out of the 2.3 million. Why can't all the neighboring Arab countries take in the displaced Palestinian muslims?

 

[Bluto]

I don't see much value to keeping Gaza. There are at most 1000 Christians out of the 2.3 million. Why can't all the neighboring Arab countries take in the displaced Palestinian muslims?

Why can’t Europe relocate the Israelis?

 

[DillonHall]

Why can’t Europe relocate the Israelis?

Haha we'll never see eye to eye on this topic. Maybe we should give our land back to the Native Americans too?

That's not how the world works. Nobody says life is fair

 

[Blazers46]

Why can’t Europe relocate the Israelis?

Why can’t you offer your home? We can go around and around with this.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Why can’t Europe relocate the Israelis?

Because, Israel won the bloody war.

Why does the Ottman Empire no long exist and was carved up by the allies?

Because they won the bloody war.

Why did the United States and the Soviet Union run the world post ww2?

Because they won the bloody war

Israel isn't sharing their country with 8 million Palestinians anymore than Turkey and Iraq are going to allow a Kurdistan. It sucks for the Palestinians. Just like it sucked for the Kurds, the aborigines, the native Americans and every other people in history that lost a war and were displaced.

You pretend to be the most read poster on here yet you view the world as a naive child.

 

[Bluto]

Because, Israel won the bloody war.

Why does the Ottman Empire no long exist and was carved up by the allies?

Because they won the bloody war.

Why did the United States and the Soviet Union run the world post ww2?

Because they won the bloody war

Israel isn't sharing their country with 8 million Palestinians anymore than Turkey and Iraq are going to allow a Kurdistan. It sucks for the Palestinians. Just like it sucked for the Kurds, the aborigines, the native Americans and every other people in history that lost a war and were displaced.

You pretend to be the most read poster on here yet you view the world as a naive child.

Not naive. I’m just not a big fan of war, genocide and ethnic cleansing as a general rule of thumb. We can agree to disagree on that I suppose.

Has Israel “won” the war? It has been in a state of war/conflict more often than not since 1948.

Maybe Hamas wins this time. Does that mean they get to do what they want to the Israelis and you’ll be like “hey thems the breaks”?

 

[Bluto]

Haha we'll never see eye to eye on this topic. Maybe we should give our land back to the Native Americans too?

That's not how the world works. Nobody says life is fair

We should honor the treaties we signed with the Native Tribes and that might entail giving back some land. In fact that is the direction the Supreme Court has moved with the McGrit decision. Something like 3 million acres back to the Creek I think.

So, if I’m reading all these opinions right, violence is a ok as long as it serves one’s purpose and you win! Interesting.

 

[Bluto]

Why can’t you offer your home? We can go around and around with this.

To who?

Round and around about what? That Arabs always hated the Jews? That was you’re original point and it was demonstrably wrong.

 

[TorontoGold]

Not naive. I’m just not a big fan of war, genocide and ethnic cleansing as a general rule of thumb. We can agree to disagree on that I suppose.

Has Israel “won” the war? It has been in a state of war/conflict more often than not since 1948.

Maybe Hamas wins this time. Does that mean they get to do what they want to the Israelis and you’ll be like “hey thems the breaks”?

If we're going down the "war/genocide/ethnic cleansing are ok if you won" then I would reallllllyyyyyy love to hear the support for Pinochet/Castro/al-Assad/Mao they all fought against their dissidents and won. That wouldn't put a nasty little pickle in the very strong argument.

 

[ulukinatme]

While our State dept is testing policy on Twitter-

That Booker sign just reminded me of this. Does he know he's not in lockstep with the administration?

 

[DillonHall]

Violence/war is an ugly part of human history, but it's the main reason for the current world order. Nobody would objectively say that it's fair, but that's the world humans have always lived in. If Israel wants to keep the upper hand, they'll have to respond with excessive force to deter future attacks

 

[sixstar]

The conditions that Israel has fostered has lead to Hamas. After they deal with Hamas (I'll use bigly tough words - execute them like dogs), then they should look to repair their relationships with the Palestinians.

Again - please stop equating all Palestinians to Hamas. Oh thank god! They blew their roof off to let them know they're going to level their house, how nice lol. One of the only places in the world that has a beach and you can't leave by boat, even in Somalia you can escape by boat. Yeah Palestinians control Gaza, except for the land/air/sea blockades, electricity sold by Israel (after the Gaza grid got bombed), 4% of the water is drinkable - can't get any equipment in oh well! Literally chips are not allowed in. It's an open air prison.

Toronto only supports open air prisons for unvaccinated people.

 

[ab2cmiller]

 

[Sea Turtle]

Not naive. I’m just not a big fan of war, genocide and ethnic cleansing as a general rule of thumb. We can agree to disagree on that I suppose.

Has Israel “won” the war? It has been in a state of war/conflict more often than not since 1948.

Maybe Hamas wins this time. Does that mean they get to do what they want to the Israelis and you’ll be like “hey thems the breaks”?

I was a bit harsh in my response to you. I apologize.

Clearly nobody of sound mind is a fan of any of that. However, it's the reality of mankind since primates fought over water holes.

Unfortunately, it was 'thems the breaks' attitude toward the jews for 2,000 years after Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jews were slaughtered and driven from Israel in 70 AD.

The world is a cruel, brutal place where, unfortunately, might makes right.

 

[Bluto]

Interesting and very informative discussion of what’s currently going on in Israel and Palestine.

Would encourage anyone who wants to hear a rational and well balanced discussion to give it a listen.

 

[ulukinatme]

Raising future leaders.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

 

[Sea Turtle]

Over 1,300 Israelis cofirmed killed in this attack now. Is creeping towards actual 911 numbers now.

25 Americans killed.

 

[ulukinatme]

Why doesn't Gaza have running water? This is one reason. UN funded water pipes repurposed by Hamas.

 

[calvegas04]

 

[ab2cmiller]

Interesting and very informative discussion of what’s currently going on in Israel and Palestine.

Would encourage anyone who wants to hear a rational and well balanced discussion to give it a listen.

Listened to it. As they point out in the end, you are basically getting Bernie's beliefs on the issues as two of them were advisors for Bernie and evidently the podcast host is a Bernie fan as well.

I guess you could call it balanced from the perspective of they do call out Hamas. However, they seem to spend a majority of their time calling out Israel under the pretext of helping understand the history of the issue. They did provide some important perspectives in "how we got here".

For me though, all of their beliefs of what can happen or should happen going forward is based upon their belief that there is no existential threat to Israel from any militaries in the region. That's a pill I can't swallow.

 

[DillonHall]

Sadly there's no way to have a fruitful discussion about the Middle East. There's too much hatred/bad history on each side to compromise

 

[Sea Turtle]

 

[Sea Turtle]

 

[IRISHDODGER]

 

[DillonHall]

Media and universities are synonymously useless

 

[TorontoGold]

 

[Bluto]

Listened to it. As they point out in the end, you are basically getting Bernie's beliefs on the issues as two of them were advisors for Bernie and evidently the podcast host is a Bernie fan as well.

I guess you could call it balanced from the perspective of they do call out Hamas. However, they seem to spend a majority of their time calling out Israel under the pretext of helping understand the history of the issue. They did provide some important perspectives in "how we got here".

For me though, all of their beliefs of what can happen or should happen going forward is based upon their belief that there is no existential threat to Israel from any militaries in the region. That's a pill I can't swallow.

They did not call out Israel per se. They did spend a good amount of time being critical (rightfully so in my opinion) of Netanyahu. Those are two different things.

His government has been a complete disaster for Israel as well as the region and they pointed out that the latest events are a culmination of his blunders which included actively supporting Hamas as a strategy to keep Palestinians divided between Hamas and Fatah (who is non secular and recognizes the State of Israel btw).

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

As to “threats” to Israel, it is the only country in the region with nukes (I would count Pakistan as Asian) and has far and away the most military power along with the backing of the US making it the de facto super power in the region. What country/group in your opinion presents an existential threat to Israel given those circumstances?

Lastly, the two guests were advisors to Sanders which would imply they informed his opinions. Also, both are Jewish and have friends and family in the region on both sides. Waiving them off as simply parroting Sanders is lazy.