UFOs, Paranormal, Pseudoscience Thread

[arahop]

 

[Henges24]

Oversight Committee on UAPs is LIVE now

 

[arahop]

Oversight Committee on UAPs is LIVE now

Really amazing stuff today. And this is just the start. The stigma and disinformation of this phenomenon not being real should be pretty much eviscerated after today.

there is clearly information and documentation/ data that they couldn't release and that exists for so much bipartisan cooperation.

Monumental day for those that have followed this phenomenon. I have for about 30 years now. I'm no OMM but it's as real as death and taxes.

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[Old Man Mike]

Committee meeting was very encouraging. Grusch did not add much more to his previous NewsNation comments, BUT he DID promise to reveal a LOT of specifics to this subcommittee in a follow-up closed session. How much of that leaks out to us will be a crapshoot, but it should be the catalyst for something --- maybe something big. The key to the committee impact was the other two guys Graves and Fravor. Their testimony was highly credible and left almost NO slack for BS waffling about this being secret human technology or some goofy misperception. Fravor was POWERFUL in his assertions about the "impossible" flight characteristics, and Graves piled on dozens of witnesses in his files to that just in the last decade. (both military and civilian pilots.) So Grusch had a perfect environment --- he didn't have to give details with these two guys as bracketing his testimony with concrete stuff. He still needs to actually deliver, but at least his claims have contextual imagineability due to Fravor and Graves (and, although not credited, the 70 years of research that the civilians like myself have provided and saved from oblivion.)

 

[Giddyup]

Neener Neener

 

[dublinirish]

Correct me if I’m wrong but everything Grusch said he knows he learnt from other people?


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[arahop]

Committee meeting was very encouraging. Grusch did not add much more to his previous NewsNation comments, BUT he DID promise to reveal a LOT of specifics to this subcommittee in a follow-up closed session. How much of that leaks out to us will be a crapshoot, but it should be the catalyst for something --- maybe something big. The key to the committee impact was the other two guys Graves and Fravor. Their testimony was highly credible and left almost NO slack for BS waffling about this being secret human technology or some goofy misperception. Fravor was POWERFUL in his assertions about the "impossible" flight characteristics, and Graves piled on dozens of witnesses in his files to that just in the last decade. (both military and civilian pilots.) So Grusch had a perfect environment --- he didn't have to give details with these two guys as bracketing his testimony with concrete stuff. He still needs to actually deliver, but at least his claims have contextual imagineability due to Fravor and Graves (and, although not credited, the 70 years of research that the civilians like myself have provided and saved from oblivion.)

Grusch is who he says he is and has the clearance and ( which only goes so far and it's clear to me that there is sort of shadow government under the guise of contractors and national security) I found him to be highly credible. This was well calculated and he was clear that he believed that others would testify under the right circumstances. This is just the start and my hope and belief is that soon there will be an established data collection agency of some sort leading to more scientific data.

Grusch also went on record that we have recovered Technology and Biological Bodies that are not human. He added the most groundbreaking information IMOThat's incredible and it's clear that Congress and others believe the claims. He's basically verifying that most UFO enthusiasts have long suspected going back to at least Roswell. We have recovered craft and Non Human Biological entities in said craft. No one has ever gone on record under oath.

Fravor and Graves were exceptional in their testimony and I was impressed that Congress had clear intention and were well prepared with their questions leaving no doubt about the reality of the phenomenon. Corbell, Knapp, Mellon, Elizondo and many others in the UFO community have done an outstanding job in getting the pertinent information to move this forward. I believe it will snowball and carry a lot of momentum going forward. This is the government disclosing that this is real phenomenon. People want disclosure and this is it.

Would love for Cooper and Mitchell to be alive and to have witnessed this. I find it ironic that the skeptics and debunkers rely on believing and even championing that the Government couldn't and wouldn't suppress this. It's clear that there is an agency that is above the law and above the Constitution. People believe in God's and religion throughout the world without any data or scientific evidence.( not attacking religion/theology)

We've had scientific evidence for decades that this is real. We haven't been alone and probably never have been on this Earth

It's a big Universe or possibly universes out there.



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[arahop]

Correct me if I’m wrong but everything Grusch said he knows he learnt from other people?


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Very credible witnesses who have been involved in the "dark programs". many others (highly credible) over the years including Gordon Cooper.. this isn't a one off account. If this this were a court of law. The data and witness testimony would have concluded this to be true

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[Old Man Mike]

... patience gentlemen. We still have to get the inside documents
As in a homicide, "we need a body." As for me, I'll be happy with a solid piece of alien technology.
When I got a tiny piece of metal to test for isotope abnormalities, that was a very rare moment.
I really want to see the documented data. Games, even outrageous games can be played.

That's why Fravor's and Graves' data supercede Grusch's currently. When Grusch delivers,
hopefully his data will far supercede theirs.

 

[arahop]

This is event described by Graves is surreal, I haven't heard this account at Vandenberg Air Force Base

100 yard square UFO came out of the ocean and zipped away.






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[Old Man Mike]

Yep. And I have more than a dozen "big'uns" that size or greater in my files.

 

[arahop]

Turns out that a lot of what Bob Lazar was most likely true. Element 115, reverse engineering, debunkers will talk about how he fabricated his college credentials. If you hang around long enough the impossible becomes reality

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[arahop]

Turns out that a lot of what Bob Lazar was most likely true. Element 115, reverse engineering, debunkers will talk about how he fabricated his college credentials. If you hang around long enough the impossible becomes reality

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[Old Man Mike]

... for the rest of IE: FWIW, I don't believe any of Bob Lazar's story for a lot of reasons I've left on here before.

There are far better claimants to some of those types of spectacular things.

 

[Meatloaf]

... for the rest of IE: FWIW, I don't believe any of Bob Lazar's story for a lot of reasons I've left on here before.

There are far better claimants to some of those types of spectacular things.

I watched a documentary about Bob and the only thing I came away with is the guy is a narcissist and a pathological liar. It seems like he's developed a following because he confidently avows what conspiracy theorists "know" about UFOs.

 

[IrishLion]

Lazar’s best ally is his consistency. His story has been the exact same for 30+ years, or since whenever the first time he talked about his experience was.

I guess he could be a very smart guy AND a fraud, so he might very well know that his best path to believability is consistency, so he hasn’t embellished or expanded beyond what he’s told from the start on purpose.

Or, it could be that he’s always just shared what he knows or experienced, and has no reason to say otherwise. Idk.

It wouldn’t surprise me if his story were “true,” but not to the extent that he thinks or believes. He readily admits that some of the things he saw could have been purposeful disinformation, either to catch moles/leaks or to mask the things that were real. But I’d take it a step further and say that maybe he wasn’t working with the government at all like believed, but caught up in a private contractor deal… and that’s why he was treated so poorly, and why they helped wreck his personal life.

 

[arahop]

Element 115 true, Reverse engineering , long speculated and that was part of the hearing is true. Worked at Los Alamos, also verified. Understood that the phenomenon flight characteristics manipulate gravity. Most likely.
Talked about how craft rotate before during flight, proved true.

So a lot of what he has talked about is fact.

I'm not vouching for his character but he knew a lot of stuff that panned out.

I know OMM perspective ( and I respect and understand that POav)but there is truth to what he was talking about IMO The fact that he lied about his academic history or the fact that banged on some prostitutes doesn't make him less credible to me.



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[arahop]

I agree that he was probably working for a private contractor.


Side note
Pretty interesting that Lockheed when pressed about UAP technology deferred to the US government. Also interesting that there hasn't been an outright denial.

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[arahop]

Rear Admiral backs Grusch, as do many others . very important to note that the Admiral is a consultant for Ocean STL amd also a part of the research committee at Harvard in the Galileo Project.

For those that doubt Grusch's claims, A lot of important people are in the know as well.




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[arahop]

Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet

"I too have been read into special access programs, and I understand how Department of Defense classification systems and authorities work. His (David Grusch's) testimony is 100 percent credible."

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[BleedBlueGold]

1.) So far, my big take away is that these UAPs, which act in ways unlike anything we're capable of understanding, are essentially confirmed 100% real as described UNDER OATH to the US Congress oversite committee. The fact that every single news network and public citizen isn't talking about THAT alone is mind blowing. Forget the speculation as to what it is, where it came from, is it ET or human reverse-engineering, etc. Highly technical aerospace craft that defy current human's understanding of physics are out there. Period.

2.) Where can I read more detailed info about the Vandenberg AFB sighting? That's fascinating.

3.) Can someone fill me in on the who's who in UFO media? George Knapp, Jeremy Corbell, Ross Coulthart, Leslie Kean are some that I've been following recently. I've noticed Jeremy essentially take credit for the hearing taking place. But (being a Blink 182 fan for years) have also heard Tom Delonge take credit for the slow release of info via his To The Stars company. Are either Tom or Jeremy that tied into this scene to have these claims be believed? Do they work together?

 

[ndfanatic78]

... for the rest of IE: FWIW, I don't believe any of Bob Lazar's story for a lot of reasons I've left on here before.

There are far better claimants to some of those types of spectacular things.

But isnt Lazar the whole reason the public learned about Area 51? Wasn't he the first to publicly acknowledge its existence and was proven right about it or was there someone earlier that he may have learned about it from?

 

[Old Man Mike]

On "Media Sources" --- this is one person's opinion, which is based upon decades of UFO work, and therefore is full of historical bias --- therefore you must take it with salt (as it is "conservative" despite the writer being utterly convinced of UFO reality):

A. UFOs have been so mocked and "forbidden" for so long, that highly trained researchers have been driven into largely private not-public non-exposed lives. Thus ALL the really good researchers are mostly unknown. Since they know so much, they know what is terrible bunk along with what is astonishingly true. They realize that there are almost no questions about UFOs that have simple and simple-minded answers --- all real answers are complex, deep, and "long." This is the group of people that you want to find if you're lucky.

B. There are many opportunities in modern media to make livings in the business of selling startling UFO claims. It does not matter to the media whether these claims are true or not, just that they are startling. These opportunities for the clever have attracted persons who don't really care what is correct. This applies to both the claimants and the commentators heading these "documentaries." IF a "commentator" decides to really go for it and make this gig his/her source of income, then there is pressure to keep delivering whether there is any truth to deliver or not. They become quite happy to accept and present crap with a wink, take the cash, and go onto the next piece of garbage. These are the people, for the most part, that you, the public, actively now see displaying themselves on TV and internet sites. If you are unlucky, you get fooled by their schtick.

C. So who is "A" and who is "B"?

Remembering that "A's" are more conservative yet take more work reading and are less cheap thrill in nature, the best scientific organizations working in the US are the SCU of Robert Powell (Scientific Committee on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) who have a couple of web presences, plus annual conventions, and recently had two pieces on NewsNation interviews (Rich Hoffman and Robert Powell.) The second top quality organization is, unfortunately, in the process of refurbishing it's website --- The Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS.) This is the group originally founded by Dr. J. Allen Hynek. Anything you read there is essentially gold.

Close to SCU and CUFOS in responsibility is the NICAP website run by Fran Ridge. Fran is a lifetime field researcher who has also been bombarding Congress and AARO with documented UFO information, as has Jan Aldrich, who has sent copies of my book (UFOs and Government) to basically every interested congressperson and office. Of all the Pop media people there are two that I would basically trust: Journalist Leslie Kean and blogster Ben Hanson. I don't know Mr. Hanson, but my listening to him has shown a sensible person. Both have been part of the media coverages lately, and Leslie for two decades. For responsible notices of on-time news, read the news columns on the ANOMALIST website. These are collected and annotated by a good friend and top quality mind, Bill Murphy.

"B's"? Some of your favorites are "B's". This includes George Knapp. He MIGHT be accurate occasionally, but he has made a living for four decades pumping out stories like clockwork, and not necessarily well researched. This goes back to his Art Bell and Robert Bigelow days, when both persons in their different ways required him to produce excitement on the clock. The female twin of this was Linda Moulton Howe who became even less discriminating. When I look at Ross Coulhart I get similar shallow research and put it out there vibes; same with Corbell. Nick Pope is a complete sell-out clown --- note his regular howler appearances on Ancient Aliens, where he has negotiated a regular paycheck. His UK UFO desk assignment was a basement-level joke by the way, where he doesn't seem to have even known the extent of the earlier UK files. ... a government incompetent who however has the savvy to exploit his old title. I and my buddies also think that Lue Elizondo started OK but is heading down the Nick Pope path now that he's exhausted what he actually knows. Newbies like Tom Delonge might be a wide-eyed hoper as far as I know, but he rarely knows what he's talking about. MAYBE he gets some truth once in a while, but at base he is a naive sponge.

As I said --- my "feelings" not yours --- but these comments would be nearly 100% agreed to by the forty top UFO North American researchers all of whom I know well. ..... we could all be wrong.

p.s. anyone who is quick to want to take credit for things is both immature, self-aggrandizing, and not my guy.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Thank you so much, Mike.

Unfortunately for all the "A's" you mentioned, few, if any, have the kind of media production behind them like Corbell, Knapp, etc. The "B's" make it easy for regular people, like me, to digest whatever it is they're selling via youtube, podcasts, twitter, etc. I appreciate you essentially re-directing me towards a more studied and respectable group I can follow. Perhaps there will come a time (soon) when this field will no longer be mocked or ridiculed and those you've mentioned can rise up above the shadows of "anonymity" and be at the mainstream forefront of this revolutionary time period in global history. I say this half-jokingly, but perhaps the "A's" should hire production teams, social media teams, website teams like the "B's" in order to make the UFO topic "cool" and appeal to the everyday Joe. I feel if more people apply pressure to those in Government (across the world), perhaps that will be the tipping point to finally unveiling the truth. Exciting times. Thanks again.

 

[Old Man Mike]

... "hire teams etc. ... "
ALL of the world's best UFO experts do their research on their own time and their own dime, very much like a serious hobby. We are also scattered country wide (some world wide) and cannot even manage "club status." There is NO "hiring" any professionals to go fancy-media-public. Sites like Fran Ridge's NICAP site are a ONE-Man unfunded operation requiring having no life otherwise. Fran himself admits that he's probably certifiable, but he thinks the subject too important to quit. It is a similar state of mind for the rest of us. Robert Powell's SCU group of scientists has been slowly built over a decade plus of being VERY patient. It STILL has no funding, and people do it on their dimes. These people are ATLASes. Ridge and Powell carry these things on their backs. No "rich guy" steps up and funds anything that requires depth and patience, since the rich guys are just having their own fun with their money, and want "Results Now" ( I saw this first hand with Bigelow. It's why Knapp got his money not CUFOS.) Unless a majorly rich guy dropped out of the sky with patience and the attitude of funding an organization with paid personnel for the longer term (and he won't), none of this hiring anyone will happen. Believe me, we have already dreamt up the details of most of this sort of thing --- not being stupid ... just poor.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Didn’t mean to imply that unfunded research would yield cheap or easy mass media marketing. I simply get excited over the topic and selfishly would ingest any additional info I could get, podcasts and YouTube lectures being the main medium I gravitate towards due to the amount of time I spend commuting for work.

With that said, I wonder if some crowd funding could help start a discussion regarding some form of media content? It’s not terribly expensive to create a modern website with Facebook and Twitter links. Same goes for shooting video content and uploading it to YouTube (which can also be linked into the site). Heck, I bet there are web designers on IE who would do it for free.

I’m a fan of the subject. And anywhere people like me can submerse themselves with good, reputable content, the better.

 

[arahop]

So Corbell and Knapp sit on stuff for sometimes years and release it when it's appropriate to without blowing the cover of their sources.

They are a HUGE part of the reason the Congressional meeting took place. I'm okay with people making money on the subject but those two haven't made wild amounts covering and championing disclosure.

Most in the scientific community aren't as well versed and researched as OMM. Read his UFOs and Government. It's a scientific approach that shows how idiotic and contradictory our government has been on the subject with a never ending plethora of credible witness and data.

The problem with a lot of the scientific community and the research (and this is not aimed at OMM.) They defy our physics and the very nature of our physical reality...
How much can science advance if our physics and propolsion can't prove what's happening?
In other words we have theories on what's happening but can't prove it until we unlock the science or material science.

As for me, that's why this is so big to get this to Congress. Grusch isn't some one off whistleblower, he's vetted and isn't at total liberty to disclose what he's seen is person, that time will come IMO. If you read between the lines on his statements he clearly has in fact seen the technology first hand, as have the other credible sources with the clearances who have come forward.

Grusch is doing interviews with his lawyer by his side Chuck McCullough

As far as the governments role in hiding this under the cloak of Private industry and classified National defense has all been a complete cover up. We are talking about the biggest paradigm shift in human history, only to be outdone by the 2nd coming of Jesus if that's what you believe in.

Replace government/ private industry with devil in the quote below. UFOs/ UAPs being the subject

" The greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince the world that he didn't exist "


This has been going on at least 80 years and people are a lot less naive and gullible. The naive and gullible are now hiding their heads in the sand. It's a tough pill to swallow for us as a species who is about to find out that we aren't at the top of the food chain so to speak





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[Old Man Mike]

"Naive and gullible" ... well, I'll wait to see if that changes.

The government has it's time-proven ways of mitigating this "undesirable" public interest in things. It to some degree (and by unknown means) has always been able to use the two most influential print mechanisms (The NYT and the WSJ) to blunt interest in their readership (the only readership they know makes a difference to forcing action and academic attitudinal change) to spin topics. (Their editors are fantastically adept at headline manipulation, even to the point that the headline defeats information down in the article itself --- one of those two even emphasized the one contrary congress clown's views over even Grusch's, Burchett's, Luna's etal in its "coverage".) So I'll wait for the 45 second US attention span to click in. It reminds me of the commercial where the clown-goon young adult gets some money and someone asks him if he wants to start a fund for college. The actor gets a remarkably brilliant moronic grin on his face and says "I'm thinking Wings." ... and buys a bunch of the sponsors chicken. That's modern America. Who really cares if the wings keep coming.

 

[arahop]

I agree OMM. The stigma still is alive and well and a lot of MSM still has the shitty grin when they interview people trying to drop the bomb of knowledge to everyone.

Me personally I don't feel like I need disclosure from the President or Government,
But most people will.

The scientific certainly needs it to study what's going on...it appears the private sector has probably gone as far as they can with recovered material...It feels like are in the middle of a paradigm shift

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[arahop]

Gary Nolan Stanford and Avi Loeb Harvard also head the Galileo And Copernicus projects. These guys aren't your average Joe's. We will get a lot more information from them in the future. I don't count on NASA at all.






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