Spring Practice 2023

[Pennick44]

I don't care if Buchner outplays Hartman every practice from here to the first game. There is virtually zero chance he starts over Hartman.

You want to see the quickest way to put yourself on the hot seat? Take a transfer with Hartman's college history and then sit him and play a kid who's done very little in his career up to this point. First bad game that Buchner has, there would be a ton of second guessing from virtually everyone. I can only imagine the howls from virtually every ND fan and media representatives.

Unless MF's got the biggest balls in the universe, he will make the smart choice and start Hartman regardless of performance in the spring or summer.

That is a sure way to lose a team. If Buchner is much better than Hartman, he has to be the starter.

 

[ulukinatme]

Arguably not the most embarrassing thing to happen in that 2013 home opener.

Courtesy of MS Paint Like a Champion Today

 

[Luckylucci]

 

[PutuporShutup]

That is a sure way to lose a team. If Buchner is much better than Hartman, he has to be the starter.

Game film is valuable. Buchner played almost as bad as you can last year. But he played good enough in practice to be quickly named starter over pyne, and pyne ended up looking and playing better than him in games. That’s saying something because pyne did not play good. It would have to be really hard to trust a player OVER Hartman to start season when that person has thrown 4 awful pick 6s in just over 100 attempts. 2 in his last game vs a bad D that was depleted.

I hope he improves a ton and gets some action and series this year and lights it up. Maybe he would earn more pt and or starter in 24, but don’t see even if he plays a bit better than Hartman in practice how you role him out as starter to begin the 23 season. Games matter. Hartman would have to be awful. I honestly think it’s poor planning on ND if Hartman isn’t getting at least 60% of reps with starters right now. He needs to build chemistry.

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

rico

Game film is valuable. Buchner played almost as bad as you can last year. But he played good enough in practice to be quickly named starter over pyne, and pyne ended up looking and playing better than him in games. That’s saying something because pyne did not play good. It would have to be really hard to trust a player OVER Hartman to start season when that person has thrown 4 awful pick 6s in just over 100 attempts. 2 in his last game vs a bad D that was depleted.

I hope he improves a ton and gets some action and series this year and lights it up. Maybe he would earn more pt and or starter in 24, but don’t see even if he plays a bit better than Hartman in practice how you role him out as starter to begin the 23 season. Games matter. Hartman would have to be awful. I honestly think it’s poor planning on ND if Hartman isn’t getting at least 60% of reps with starters right now. He needs to build chemistry.

lmaooo 4 pick 6's in 100 attempts jesus christ. how can anyone take him seriously

 

[317Irish]

You guys just feed off each other’s negativity don’t ya?

 

[PutuporShutup]

rico


lmaooo 4 pick 6's in 100 attempts jesus christ. how can anyone take him seriously

Not even sure what that means…. It’s the worst thing a qb can do when it’s their fault. I’ve never seen anything like it in so few attempts. Really think the coaches have full trust in him? We all know he has ability, that’s not the issue.

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

You guys just feed off each other’s negativity don’t ya?

it is why the notre dame fanbase is immune to shit talk. There is nothing you can do to us the post season hasn't already

 

[PANDFAN]

I like those guys at ISD. They do a pretty good job breaking stuff down and they're likeable.

But what's up with Greg's constant sniffle? Either that guy has a massive coke habit or he's had the same cold for years.

Maybe I'm being petty, but man it's distracting.

I can't listen to him for this reason and have mentioned this exact thing

 

[Irish du Nord]

it is why the notre dame fanbase is immune to shit talk. There is nothing you can do to us the post season hasn't already

Yeah we have it so hard, the second most successful program of all time

 

[Deirishpisser]

Game film is valuable. Buchner played almost as bad as you can last year. But he played good enough in practice to be quickly named starter over pyne, and pyne ended up looking and playing better than him in games. That’s saying something because pyne did not play good. It would have to be really hard to trust a player OVER Hartman to start season when that person has thrown 4 awful pick 6s in just over 100 attempts. 2 in his last game vs a bad D that was depleted.

I hope he improves a ton and gets some action and series this year and lights it up. Maybe he would earn more pt and or starter in 24, but don’t see even if he plays a bit better than Hartman in practice how you role him out as starter to begin the 23 season. Games matter. Hartman would have to be awful. I honestly think it’s poor planning on ND if Hartman isn’t getting at least 60% of reps with starters right now. He needs to build chemistry.

you are an idiot.

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

Yeah we have it so hard, the second most successful program of all time

Assuming you'd only put BAMA ahead of us?

But I mean I've been a fan for about a decade now, and every time the lights are really on us we get our shit pushed in, without exception - unless you count the 2020 win over Clemson, I suppose. Just makes it tough to get too cocky.

 

[317Irish]

Assuming you'd only put BAMA ahead of us?

But I mean I've been a fan for about a decade now, and every time the lights are really on us we get our shit pushed in, without exception - unless you count the 2020 win over Clemson, I suppose. Just makes it tough to get too cocky.

I’m not sure you’re using the correct noun above.

 

[PutuporShutup]

you are an idiot.

Thank you for letting me know who you are. When that’s all you can respond with to a pretty factual post, I better understand who I’m dealing with.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I come here every day for no other reason than to make sure there are no injuries. Let's just get to May and start thinking about Navy ASA humanly P.

 

[dublinirish]

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

 

[PutuporShutup]

Pyne didn’t acquire all that game experience because he was better in games. It’s disingenuous to use his game performance as a barometer for measuring Buchner’s “progression” last season. There was no progression. He was injured. So, there’s that.

Never alluded to that, but he did play better. My point was same season, same supporting cast, pyne was better but not good/great either. Pyne had a 155 rating in 2022, buchner was 122.

With buchner, it didn't look like there was any progression from 2021 to 2022 (My opinion).

My other point is how bad buchner was in those 3 games, you have a 6th year QB that's played well and poised in a lot of big games with FAR LESS talented supporting cast. Hartman is far from the top QB in college but he's darn good. Hard to trust buchner over him even if he's playing a little better than hartman in practice.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Never alluded to that, but he did play better. My point was same season, same supporting cast, pyne was better but not good/great either. Pyne had a 155 rating in 2022, buchner was 122.

With buchner, it didn't look like there was any progression from 2021 to 2022 (My opinion).

My other point is how bad buchner was in those 3 games, you have a 6th year QB that's played well and poised in a lot of big games with FAR LESS talented supporting cast. Hartman is far from the top QB in college but he's darn good. Hard to trust buchner over him even if he's playing a little better than hartman in practice.

We're just going to conveniently ignore the stark difference in OLine play from September on? Got it.

And as frustrating as a few of the plays Buchner made in the Gator Bowl were, there were also more than enough dynamic plays that showcased his abilities, plays that Pyne was never capable of making. He put on full display how high his ceiling is in the Bowl game. And one of those mistakes, the INT at the goal line, was more on Rees for dialing up that play call in that situation. He knows better than anyone whether or not his QB has sound decision making, and we were absolutely pounding the rock on that tired defense at that point in the game.

I agree with you that Hartman should and likely will start, but the Pyne > Buchner theory is an absolute joke of a take.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Two random thoughts:
1. The coaching staff told Drew that Buchner was starting the bowl game over him, early. So the discussion of who the staff evaluated as the better QB in uninjured head-to-head competition should be no discussion. This is from me despite my greatest admiration for Drew.
2. Comment that Sam Hartman is "far" from the best college QB this season is at a minimum strongly debatable and for me just dead wrong. We will see, but SuperSam HAS already been "super" and, HIGHLY impressive in every way. I wonder how many pro scouts think that if he has just a normal season for him he wouldn't be highly drafted. "Drafted at all" means one of college's best.

 

[CoachB]

We're just going to conveniently ignore the stark difference in OLine play from September on? Got it.

And as frustrating as a few of the plays Buchner made in the Gator Bowl were, there were also more than enough dynamic plays that showcased his abilities, plays that Pyne was never capable of making. He put on full display how high his ceiling is in the Bowl game. And one of those mistakes, the INT at the goal line, was more on Rees for dialing up that play call in that situation. He knows better than anyone whether or not his QB has sound decision making, and we were absolutely pounding the rock on that tired defense at that point in the game.

I agree with you that Hartman should and likely will start, but the Pyne > Buchner theory is an absolute joke of a take.

Honestly, I skipped most of that debate as I came for spring camp news. All I read in that whole debate was this very last sentence, and duh! Is someone actually debating that Pyne is better than TB12? 😂

 

[PutuporShutup]

We're just going to conveniently ignore the stark difference in OLine play from September on? Got it.

And as frustrating as a few of the plays Buchner made in the Gator Bowl were, there were also more than enough dynamic plays that showcased his abilities, plays that Pyne was never capable of making. He put on full display how high his ceiling is in the Bowl game. And one of those mistakes, the INT at the goal line, was more on Rees for dialing up that play call in that situation. He knows better than anyone whether or not his QB has sound decision making, and we were absolutely pounding the rock on that tired defense at that point in the game.

I agree with you that Hartman should and likely will start, but the Pyne > Buchner theory is an absolute joke of a take.

I still don't understand what you think is a joke. That he didn't play poor? That the pick 6's aren't awful and insane he has that many already?

I agree the play call was awful by rees vs south carolina but that doesn't excuse buchner's inability to run/read a simple play that lead to a 100 yard pick 6 on first and goal from the 7. Buchner was under absolutely NO pressure, and if he waited a split second longer Evans clears all the traffic. Buchner also didn't even look to see where he was throwing it. Again, all this on first and goal from the 7 and why the trust can't be super high yet with buchner.




The view from the 42 second mark shows everything from the qb's angle really well.

As to your point about the oline. I honestly think a big part of the oline struggles were due to buchner, how teams defend him, and his poor job with protections/reads. Why do I think that? The oline looked much better in pass pro after buchner got hurt, then they looked terrible again vs south carolina when he came back. Buchner was getting hammered vs south carolina. I believe it was something like he got hit 10 times in 35 drop backs. Maybe it had a bit to do with competition but Ohio State, Marshall, South carolina were not good defenses.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Two random thoughts:
1. The coaching staff told Drew that Buchner was starting the bowl game over him, early. So the discussion of who the staff evaluated as the better QB in uninjured head-to-head competition should be no discussion. This is from me despite my greatest admiration for Drew.
2. Comment that Sam Hartman is "far" from the best college QB this season is at a minimum strongly debatable and for me just dead wrong. We will see, but SuperSam HAS already been "super" and, HIGHLY impressive in every way. I wonder how many pro scouts think that if he has just a normal season for him he wouldn't be highly drafted. "Drafted at all" means one of college's best.

I think i mainly agree with these two points. Drew just isn't that good and has hardly any room to dare I say "Grow". lol My thought is that buchner clearly looked better in practice than pyne and it just didn't translate to games, or they went in on buchner due to potential. I think we beat south carolina handily by 20+ if pyne is QB that game. Yes buchner made some amazing throws but he did too much of the complete opposite, and struggled on short throws. South Carolina with all the people missing, was not very good.

I said Sam is far from the best QB in college and I stand by that. He is worlds away from Caleb Williams ability. That doesn't mean Hartman isn't a really good college QB. I'm high on him and think he could have a top 5 college QB type year, but that doesn't mean he's on Calebs level.

 

[IrishLion]

I think i mainly agree with these two points. Drew just isn't that good and has hardly any room to dare I say "Grow". lol My thought is that buchner clearly looked better in practice than pyne and it just didn't translate to games, or they went in on buchner due to potential. I think we beat south carolina handily by 20+ if pyne is QB that game. Yes buchner made some amazing throws but he did too much of the complete opposite, and struggled on short throws. South Carolina with all the people missing, was not very good.

I said Sam is far from the best QB in college and I stand by that. He is worlds away from Caleb Williams ability. That doesn't mean Hartman isn't a really good college QB. I'm high on him and think he could have a top 5 college QB type year, but that doesn't mean he's on Calebs level.

You could make an argument that Pyne would have been a sitting duck against South Carolina, and the pass game wouldn't have been there had he played, as South Carolina wouldn't have respected him as a run threat, and would have dropped 8 and made Pyne look like a deer in the headlights.

Buchner made 2-3 HUGE plays with his legs that Pyne couldn't have made, as well as a deep throw to Lenzy that Pyne likely doesn't get off, and they helped win the game. He offset two bad mistakes with 4+ great plays. Pyne is a net neutral, generally, and would have likely been the same in the bowl game. A net neutral loses the bowl game, imo.

People hate hearing it, but Buchner needs more seasoning, simple as that. Keeping him healthy to GET that experience is a different debate/issue/argument entirely.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

You could make an argument that Pyne would have been a sitting duck against South Carolina, and the pass game wouldn't have been there had he played, as South Carolina wouldn't have respected him as a run threat, and would have dropped 8 and made Pyne look like a deer in the headlights.

Buchner made 2-3 HUGE plays with his legs that Pyne couldn't have made, as well as a deep throw to Lenzy that Pyne likely doesn't get off, and they helped win the game. He offset two bad mistakes with 4+ great plays. Pyne is a net neutral, generally, and would have likely been the same in the bowl game. A net neutral loses the bowl game, imo.

People hate hearing it, but Buchner needs more seasoning, simple as that. Keeping him healthy to GET that experience is a different debate/issue/argument entirely.

There were two throws that came to mind that I was going to highlight but I decided to cut my losses and stop arguing with these clowns. The throw you mentioned to Lenzy, and that incredible play he made to Jayden Thomas on third and long when he threw the ball with a defender right in his face and connected for a first down. That throw was unbelievable.

EDIT: Found the clip. Just absurd.

 

[PutuporShutup]

You could make an argument that Pyne would have been a sitting duck against South Carolina, and the pass game wouldn't have been there had he played, as South Carolina wouldn't have respected him as a run threat, and would have dropped 8 and made Pyne look like a deer in the headlights.

Buchner made 2-3 HUGE plays with his legs that Pyne couldn't have made, as well as a deep throw to Lenzy that Pyne likely doesn't get off, and they helped win the game. He offset two bad mistakes with 4+ great plays. Pyne is a net neutral, generally, and would have likely been the same in the bowl game. A net neutral loses the bowl game, imo.

People hate hearing it, but Buchner needs more seasoning, simple as that. Keeping him healthy to GET that experience is a different debate/issue/argument entirely.

Completely possible. This is an opinion, but watching the season and hearing freeman compliment pyne on managing the game (clemson great example) i really think he got ND in the right protections/fits and slight changes to run plays that maybe buchner wasn't mentally able to do at a high clip. I feel that is part of why buchner got lit up vs SC. That's why i'm sure pyne would have been hit, but I don't think as much vs SC. Also, I don't think all of buchners great plays offset 2 pick 6's. Those are such game changers. I do like that he kept battling and didn't fold. Last point on this, south carolina was missing so many key players. I remember reading something like they were without 5 CBs, 2 of which were starting and 2 starting dline players and a few other key reserves on defense. Then on offense 2 starting wrs, starting te, starting rb. That was a completely depleted team. On offense we were missing our best player, and on D we had foskey out and Jayson injured.

 

[ThePiombino]

Courtesy of MS Paint Like a Champion Today

The day the internet peaked.

 

[FWIrish4]

There were two throws that came to mind that I was going to highlight but I decided to cut my losses and stop arguing with these clowns. The throw you mentioned to Lenzy, and that incredible play he made to Jayden Thomas on third and long when he threw the ball with a defender right in his face and connected for a first down. That throw was unbelievable.

EDIT: Found the clip. Just absurd.

Came here to post this exact throw. This is not an everyday throw that anybody can complete. That is elite body control with accuracy throwing off platform, creates an arm angle to get the ball out AND takes a hit. That’s his ceiling and not many in CFB have that. If he can reach it consistently is the question and I love hearing he’s having a good spring.

 

[ulukinatme]

There were two throws that came to mind that I was going to highlight but I decided to cut my losses and stop arguing with these clowns. The throw you mentioned to Lenzy, and that incredible play he made to Jayden Thomas on third and long when he threw the ball with a defender right in his face and connected for a first down. That throw was unbelievable.

EDIT: Found the clip. Just absurd.

Rewatching the highlights again months later, a few takeaways:
Buchner really can be special, he really just needs to clean up some of the turnovers. I'll support whoever is under Center always though.
I don't wanna hear any slander of my guy Diggs again. He took a lot of crap for a fumble in the Fiesta Bowl, but he was huge in that SC bowl game with 169 total yards from scrimmage and two scores. He broke away on two long plays to house it, he's a difference maker.
I said it before, but I gave Lenzy a lot of crap at the beginning of the season and thought he was holding the offense back. He got better under Stuckey and made significant contributions as the year went on, including the bowl game. I'm glad he decided to come back last year.
I completely missed the nasty shot that Ben Mo took in the 3rd quarter.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Rewatching the highlights again months later, a few takeaways:
Buchner really can be special, he really just needs to clean up some of the turnovers. I'll support whoever is under Center always though.
I don't wanna hear any slander of my guy Diggs again. He took a lot of crap for a fumble in the Fiesta Bowl, but he was huge in that SC bowl game with 169 total yards from scrimmage and two scores. He broke away on two long plays to house it, he's a difference maker.
I said it before, but I gave Lenzy a lot of crap at the beginning of the season and thought he was holding the offense back. He got better under Stuckey and made significant contributions as the year went on, including the bowl game. I'm glad he decided to come back last year.
I completely missed the nasty shot that Ben Mo took in the 3rd quarter.

Few question what buchner can do, for me it's consistency, decision making, and can he be accurate enough with his throwing motion change from a few years ago. The mental side is always the most important especially with elite talent.