‘23 VA ATH Brandyn Hillman (Michigan Verbal)

[IrishLion]

Right. “Shopping Down the Same Aisle”

I bet he would be playing at LSU no problem.

You talk about LSU a lot. Maybe join Tiger Droppings and go talk to those guys.

 

[pumpdog20]

Loy says Michigan as of now for him

He can get into Michigan but not ND?

No way... if so, time to riot

 

[Sea Turtle]

Why would Freeman be upset at ND for this? He chose to recruit and accept the young man’s commitment. He either didn’t do the due diligence or he took a gamble and it didn’t pay off. This is on Freeman either way.

Yeah, and why would Kelly be upset at ND....

Kelly and Rees probably made the right decision.

 

[Luckylucci]

Yeah, and why would Kelly be upset at ND....

He coached 12 seasons at ND and won shit load of football games. Freeman spend at least a few seasons at ND and win a shit load of games before the complaining starts. If he can’t win as much as Kelly did at ND, then ND isn’t the problem. Freeman is.

 

[irishff1014]

We deserve better than this.

I'm tired of getting cheated out of good recruits.

Sounds like our staff gave him every single opportunity and he chose not to follow up on his end.

 

[Sea Turtle]

He coached 12 seasons at ND and won shit load of football games. Freeman spend at least a few seasons at ND and win a shit load of games before the complaining starts. If he can’t win as much as Kelly did at ND, then ND isn’t the problem. Freeman is.

And he kept trying to leave because ND kept sabotaging him. As early as 2012.

Finally he got his chance and bolted. Freeman probably will too.

 

[Luckylucci]

And he kept trying to leave because ND kept sabotaging him. As early as 2012.

Finally he got his chance and bolted. Freeman probably will too.

And, if Freeman leaves after 12 seasons and that many wins, we can have this conversation.

We’re lowering expectations in real time for the guy that wants to challenge everything. It makes no fucking sense. He’s not even winning as much as the last guy. Once he gets there and can’t quite get over the hump, cool. Let’s bump this. But, we need to stop acting like Freeman is this proven HC and all the problems are out of his control. From where I sit. We just watched the last guy do pretty darn well. Freeman should start by getting us back there before the excuses come.

 

[Crazy Balki]

He coached 12 seasons at ND and won shit load of football games. Freeman spend at least a few seasons at ND and win a shit load of games before the complaining starts. If he can’t win as much as Kelly did at ND, then ND isn’t the problem. Freeman is.

I disagree.

Freeman is clearly putting in the effort to land top level recruits, something Kelly never did. But the landscape of CFB is drastically different than it was even just 5 years ago.

Freeman's effort is being mitigated by the rise of NIL and it doesn't seem like ND is willing to throw him a bone in the admissions or NIL regard.

Kelly certainly had to battle that too, but it wasn't just that which was holding him back. He lacked the tenacity on the recruiting trail and failed to consistently communicate with top level kids, nor hold his assistants accountable for landing kids.

If Hillman ends up at Michigan, because ND couldn't let him in, that sends a horrible message that ND is unwilling to give Freeman any sort of leeway, on top of their unwillingness to put more effort in supporting the NIL initiative.

 

[Crazy Balki]

And, if Freeman leaves after 12 seasons and that many wins, we can have this conversation.

We’re lowering expectations in real time for the guy that wants to challenge everything. It makes no fucking sense. He’s not even winning as much as the last guy. Once he gets there and can’t quite get over the hump, cool. Let’s bump this. But, we need to stop acting like Freeman is this proven HC and all the problems are out of his control. From where I sit. We just watched the last guy do pretty darn well. Freeman should start by getting us back there before the excuses come.

Again, you can't compare Freeman to Kelly because the landscape is just wildly different.

Freeman has all the challenges that Kelly had to deal with but added to that is the massive elephant in the room that is NIL. It has been a massive hindrance to ND and has helped mitigate arguably Freeman's best coaching asset, his ability to recruit. You can sell the program and yourself better than anybody in the game, but if your bosses are not willing to promise the big time NIL deals when you get here, you're not being set up to succeed in today's game.

 

[irishff1014]

I disagree.

Freeman is clearly putting in the effort to land top level recruits, something Kelly never did. But the landscape of CFB is drastically different than it was even just 5 years ago.

Freeman's effort is being mitigated by the rise of NIL and it doesn't seem like ND is willing to throw him a bone in the admissions or NIL regard.

Kelly certainly had to battle that too, but it wasn't just that which was holding him back. He lacked the tenacity on the recruiting trail and failed to consistently communicate with top level kids, nor hold his assistants accountable for landing kids.

If Hillman ends up at Michigan, because ND couldn't let him in, that sends a horrible message that ND is unwilling to give Freeman any sort of leeway, on top of their unwillingness to put more effort in supporting the NIL initiative.

You don’t even know what the academic situation was yet and according to some people it was more than just that.

And further more to prove Lucky’s point we lost to Marshal and terrible against Cal. So yes Freeman has a lot to prove.

 

[Luckylucci]

Again, you can't compare Freeman to Kelly because the landscape is just wildly different.

Freeman has all the challenges that Kelly had to deal with but added to that is the massive elephant in the room that is NIL. It has been a massive hindrance to ND and has helped mitigate arguably Freeman's best coaching asset, his ability to recruit. You can sell the program and yourself better than anybody in the game, but if your bosses are not willing to promise the big time NIL deals when you get here, you're not being set up to succeed in today's game.

Again, you’re lowering expectations in real-time for the guy that was supposed to be that dude. Sad state of affairs for ND football. Pathetic really.

 

[ulukinatme]

tOSU will come calling at some point, and I would think Freeman will have a lot of reasons to go back to the Buckeyes so he won't have to deal with situations like this anymore.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Again, you’re lowering expectations in real-time for the guy that was supposed to be that dude. Sad state of affairs for ND football. Pathetic really.

'That dude' now has a Brian Kelly level class because of ND. It doesn't matter who the coach is, it's the same University.

You don't sandbag the new guy and say 'win a bunch and games and we will talk'. Especially when the guy before bolted because of it. And he didnt WANT to be here for 12 years. He tried to leave multiple times because of ND. And Freeman won't be here long enough to even have that conversation. He'll be gone as soon as OSU or another big dog comes calling. And he should.

What is it with some of you who love the fact that ND sandbags the program and sabotages it whenever it can? Dp you enjoy being skull dragged when it coynts? Do you think it's a coincidence that Kelly beats Alabama as soon as he got away from ND?

 

[irishog77]

Again, you’re lowering expectations in real-time for the guy that was supposed to be that dude. Sad state of affairs for ND football. Pathetic really.

Agreed. NIL can be an issue for ND and MF, particularly against a handful of other schools.

By all reports, NIL has nothing to do with Hillman not coming to ND though. So it’s a tough sell to hear bitching about NIL and MF, seemingly fighting with one hand tied behind his back, in a thread about a kid not coming here because he didn’t get his high school classes in order.

 

[IrishMoore1]

This really blows. This kid was my favorite player in the class, and probably the most underrated. His high school tape was basically a video game. This recruiting class keeps getting knocked down a peg. Is it even top 10 any more?

 

[Sea Turtle]

This is now a Kelly class.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Again, you’re lowering expectations in real-time for the guy that was supposed to be that dude. Sad state of affairs for ND football. Pathetic really.

No I'm not. That's an assumption on your end.

NIL has changed things drastically and not for ND's benefit.

Period.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Agreed. NIL can be an issue for ND and MF, particularly against a handful of other schools.

By all reports, NIL has nothing to do with Hillman not coming to ND though. So it’s a tough sell to hear bitching about NIL and MF, seemingly fighting with one hand tied behind his back, in a thread about a kid not coming here because he didn’t get his high school classes in order.

My response re: NIL had nothing to do with Hillman. I was referring to people trying to compare Kelly to Freeman and saying that if he doesn't win like Kelly, that isn't an indictment on ND, but on Freeman.

I said that the fact that NIL is a thing makes things that much more difficult for Freeman to succeed than it did Kelly.

Hard to debate that given what we saw from '23 recruiting. That in conjunction with the same admissions issues that continue to plague this program, as it appears to be the case with Hillman, only compounds the issues for Freeman.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Good grief. This years class even with the late defections is the best class in 10 years by every measurable metric possible, and the only one close was last years, driven by MF’s defensive recruiting.
But carry on chicken littles…

 

[Crazy Balki]

Good grief. This years class even with the late defections is the best class in 10 years by every measurable metric possible, and the only one close was last years, driven by MF’s defensive recruiting.
But carry on chicken littles…

ND needs a lot of help at safety, so losing the guy who many thought was one of the highest upside players in the class, and one who could fill in at safety (a position of significant need) is a pretty big deal.

It's especially bad because of ND's inability to hit the transfer portal hard.

So now, Shuler and Minich HAVE to be good players or else we're kind of screwed at safety.

It is hits especially hard if the rumors end up being true and he winds up at Michigan, despite not being able to get into ND. Shows Michigan is willing to accommodate their athletes to get them in, while ND is not. Not exactly what you want to see for somebody who wants ND to succeed.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Do we go to the portal after the spring then?

Also, if this is on the kid, then the staff new the risks right? This wouldn't be on the administration for once, one would think.

 

[Irish4life]

tOSU will come calling at some point, and I would think Freeman will have a lot of reasons to go back to the Buckeyes so he won't have to deal with situations like this anymore.

Not if he doesn't start winning. The guy lost to Marshall and Stanford this year lmfao.

 

[Irish4life]

ND needs a lot of help at safety, so losing the guy who many thought was one of the highest upside players in the class, and one who could fill in at safety (a position of significant need) is a pretty big deal.

It's especially bad because of ND's inability to hit the transfer portal hard.

So now, Shuler and Minich HAVE to be good players or else we're kind of screwed at safety.

It is hits especially hard if the rumors end up being true and he winds up at Michigan, despite not being able to get into ND. Shows Michigan is willing to accommodate their athletes to get them in, while ND is not. Not exactly what you want to see for somebody who wants ND to succeed.

Michigan has never had ND level academic standards for it's football players.

 

[Bluto]

And he kept trying to leave because ND kept sabotaging him. As early as 2012.

Finally he got his chance and bolted. Freeman probably will too.

This is kinda stupid. Kelly got kinda lucky in 2012 then immediately blew the momentum of that miracle season by flirting with the NFL. He then proceeded to be pretty mediocre, squandered the talent of the 2015 roster by hiring BVG and then produced the total shit storm that was 2016. Kelly sabotaged himself over the course of several seasons. If ND fired him in 2016 he’d be coaching bowling green or an analyst at Bama.

 

[Irish4life]

My response re: NIL had nothing to do with Hillman. I was referring to people trying to compare Kelly to Freeman and saying that if he doesn't win like Kelly, that isn't an indictment on ND, but on Freeman.

I said that the fact that NIL is a thing makes things that much more difficult for Freeman to succeed than it did Kelly.

Hard to debate that given what we saw from '23 recruiting. That in conjunction with the same admissions issues that continue to plague this program, as it appears to be the case with Hillman, only compounds the issues for Freeman.

ND may not be throwing money at HS recruits (yet...) but it's pretty clear and obvious that they are for proven players in the portal. Freeman got his guy at QB, and has his coaches in place. The 2023 ND team should be at the absolute worst, 10-2 (9-3 is acceptable with another long term injury at QB).

 

[Luckylucci]

Not if he doesn't start winning. The guy lost to Marshall and Stanford this year lmfao.

This. If Freeman leaves before a playoff appearance, who cares. I love the guy but if the goal is to win big and he’s not doing that then time to move on anyways. If another program takes him on without him doing so here, so be it. The conversation matters when he wins big here and then leaves. Until then these are just excuses so if he doesn’t, it’s not his fault.

 

[Luckylucci]

This is kinda stupid. Kelly got kinda lucky in 2012 then immediately blew the momentum of that miracle season by flirting with the NFL. He then proceeded to be pretty mediocre, squandered the talent of the 2015 roster by hiring BVG and then produced the total shit storm that was 2016. Kelly sabotaged himself over the course of several seasons. If ND fired him in 2016 he’d be coaching bowling green or an analyst at Bama.

And here is the irony.

In 2013 ND kicked BK’s starting QB, that was just in a NCG, out of school. Still to this day, that has yet to happen at any school or to any coach. If Freeman makes a NCG and that happens, then let’s discuss it.

In 2015, BK made a NY6 bowl with a backup QB. In 2022, Freeman had a backup QB, lost to two total ass teams and played in The Who gives a fuck bowl.

See the pattern. Both dealt with similar shit. One guy just won his way out of it. I expect Freeman, over time, to do the same. However, if he doesn’t, it’s not the admins fault. It’s his. And, I’m sure he sees it that way.

If he never wins anything worth a shit, then the admin is not holding him back from being great. It might be holding him back from being good. But we don’t want good anyways. We want great. Great coaches will produce very good results at ND. We just saw it with a guy who was “lazy” while he dealt with some crazy ass stuff over the years himself.

 

[TorontoGold]

If OSU is going to hire Freeman that's because he's won a playoff game at ND, otherwise you're smoking meth and not good meth - like EJ Holland copium level grade meth.

(We're talking about Ohio State right? The school that hired Urban Meyer AFTER he won at Florida?)

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

 

[Irish4life]

And here is the irony.

In 2013 ND kicked BK’s starting QB, that was just in a NCG, out of school. Still to this day, that has yet to happen at any school or to any coach. If Freeman makes a NCG and that happens, then let’s discuss it.

In 2015, BK made a NY6 bowl with a backup QB. In 2022, Freeman had a backup QB, lost to two total ass teams and played in The Who gives a fuck bowl.

See the pattern. Both dealt with similar shit. One guy just won his way out of it. I expect Freeman, over time, to do the same. However, if he doesn’t, it’s not the admins fault. It’s his. And, I’m sure he sees it that way.

If he never wins anything worth a shit, then the admin is not holding him back from being great. It might be holding him back from being good. But we don’t want good anyways. We want great. Great coaches will produce very good results at ND. We just saw it with a guy who was “lazy” while he dealt with some crazy ass stuff over the years himself.

We had very good results with a coach who didn't actively recruit and never hit on a stud QB at ND. If Freeman hits on a QB, and continues to load the roster with talent, we'll be in a great spot moving forward. Independent of what happened here with Hillman. Biggest and most pressing need for change at ND remains bringing in undergrads in the portal (or throwing around NIL money at HS recruits).

 

[Crazy Balki]

This. If Freeman leaves before a playoff appearance, who cares. I love the guy but if the goal is to win big and he’s not doing that then time to move on anyways. If another program takes him on without him doing so here, so be it. The conversation matters when he wins big here and then leaves. Until then these are just excuses so if he doesn’t, it’s not his fault.

You continue to ignore the problem.

Freeman's primary strength is being blocked heavily by NIL.

That problem isn't going away if Freeman is let go. Until ND addresses this problem, it's going to continue to be an issue.

Stuff like what's happening with Hillman only helps to exacerbate the issue. Kelly simply had to deal with getting kids in, but Freeman has to not only deal with getting kids in, but also staving off the threat of them being tempted by big-time NIL money. If Kelly had Freeman's tenacity on the trail, he'd be good, because he didn't have to worry about having to out-bid other schools when his program isn't willing to engage in upfront NIL, because NIL wasn't a thing for pretty much his entire tenure.

If you don't think that isn't an issue that is foreign to the Kelly regime, I don't know what to tell you. And again, it isn't something that is going away. ND will have to address eventually if they wish to compete.