UFOs, Paranormal, Pseudoscience Thread

AlaskanIrish

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A Buddhist or Hindu is an atheist but not a Materialist Reductionist. They espouse the same "non-need" to believe in a Creator GOD but one limits himself to nothing but material physical law reductionism, while the other believes that all of that is largely passing illusion, and Existence is One Thing within which "individuals" constantly refine in pursuit of harmony within that One. Upon achieving perfect harmony after many lifetimes turning the Karmic Wheel, they "dissolve" into the One never more to have being as individual points of partial disharmony. Because Buddhists maintain that matter bits are basically an illusion, and the whole dynamic of life takes place on the "Spiritual" level of Dharma (essentially "Good Works") and Karma (disharmonic burden caused by ill works), they can view life nearly opposite to materialist science. In fact, the basic "technology" pursued by the Buddhist or Hindu searcher is a Technology of Consciousness wherein the seeker seeks not a Communion with God's Love, or the fortitude to pursue The Beatitudes, but rather to achieve the ability of self-mastery and then utter self-denial, i.e. the awareness that one's self is itself an illusion, as is any worldly interaction including Death.

Hindus and Buddhists are perfectly happy with the Spiritual technological pursuit of the paranormal, just as long as it does not hinder the de-karma-ization of their current turn of the Wheel. Paranormal ability however can be a problem, if it leads to ego-centrism, the opposite of the Buddhist/Hindu quest. Reductionist materialists are not comfortable with ANY of that. I've heard some of them say that they are "spiritual" people, but in fact they only mean that they try to be nice generally, try to care about other things than themselves, and like watching Nature. But at the core of that there is no real meaning. Meaning would come when the Game of Life is actually on the line. Does one's belief structure fortify one standing up for what's morally right in the face of severe threats to oneself? Does one place oneself in service of others regardless of any close relationship? Does one TRULY LOVE on an expansive scope? True spirituality for me involves seeing oneself as Servant and Helper in loving and moral ways. There is no morality in materialist reductionism if that philosophy is honestly exposed to its root conclusions. Without the Soul acting through Freedom of Choice, there can be no concept of a moral or immoral act, and consequently no true living of a PURPOSEFUL life. ... an illusion to the reductionists.

One can choose of course to go all material with that brand of atheism, or all spiritual with that brand of atheism, or believe in a separate Creator God who created The Universe as a (brilliantly fascinating) backdrop for giving individual free willing souls opportunities to make choices on their own for goodness/love or for egocentric selfishness or mindless uncare, and discover who each of us is. I see no basis for such moral choice in reductionism, and only the pragmatic (I better do this to not burden myself with Karma) motivations of Buddhism. ... and the urgency of moral choice is not really there either --- you always have another turn on the Wheel coming, and "you" don't actually exist anyway.

So, I'm sticking with my New Testament Gospel of Love Jesus pronouncements, and pray to The Holy Spirit every day several times for the spiritual strength to overcome my animal instinct selfishness and take the opportunities that The Universe gives me top choose the right thing. I find this a very "logical" philosophy of life and very supportive even in times of trouble.

Please do not attempt to draw me into some philosophical-religious-theological debate on these things. If you are a nice person, I respect you regardless of your final philosophical structure. If you are not a nice person, I tend to disapprove, but usually not loudly and combatively. We all need to understand that this universal design seems powerfully resistant to PROVING things at this level in any form. Anyone demanding such creates a red herring, and probably does so for their own unspoken reasons.
Thanks, OMM! I have no intention of drawing you into an religious debate (bolded above).

I appreciate you taking the time to respond, and I'll leave it there. It would be a ton of fun to tease out some of these issues in another venue. Best wishes!
 

goldandblue

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You may have touched on this somewhere but I loved the fire in the sky movie when I was young. Is That all bull crap?
 

Old Man Mike

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I don't think I've written about that here. It's quite complex. I'm not going to do the long work to detail an explanation. I'm going to violate my normal policy on this sort of thing and just give a few bullet points. Going more or less backwards in time:

1. The movie is essentially a large violation of the case information, and therefore is bullsh!t.
2. There has been a late wrench in the works wherein one of the woodcutting crew has stated that this was all a hoax. This is despite this person stating, more strongly than any of the witnesses, that the encounter occurred --- keeping this position for 40 years. One thing that has changed is that this person and Walton seem to have had a business agreement, which he claims was violated. At the least there seems to be a revenge factor here.
3. The book from which the picture below was taken (the original book) was accurate as to keeping to the statements in the files. If one thinks that the case could have some truth in it, that is the best public source. I have forgotten the title but it was NOT "Fire in the Sky."
4. Sometime shortly after the case, I heard an audiotape featuring a spontaneous meeting between Travis Walton, Coral Lorenzen, and Dr. J. Allen Hynek. The conversation on that tape was pretty credible. It is in fact, the main thing which causes me to keep an open mind on the incident.
4. Several witnesses passed lie detector tests.
5. Walton was missing for several days, and reappeared in a dazed shape on a rural Arizona road.
6. CLAIMS: Event occurred, Walton is blasted by craft, His buddies panic and drive off leaving him. When they return, he is gone. The other picture below is from the UFO group journal, showing the alleged craft blasting him.233H (dragged).jpg233H (dragged) 1.jpg
 

goldandblue

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Awesome feed back. I too like many others, enjoy your input on these subjects. It is a really good movie! Need to find it streaming somewhere.
 

TNUtoNotreDame

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Anyone here ever been kidnapped and had like sexual things done to them by aliens?
you-really.gif
 

Irish'15

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Awesome feed back. I too like many others, enjoy your input on these subjects. It is a really good movie! Need to find it streaming somewhere.
No problem. Check Amazon Prime. It's called "Independence Day". I think it stars that guy that slaps people.
 

INLaw

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OMM I think you mentioned poltergeist as an area you knew a bit about. If i got poltergeist stuff going on is this something I should be super clued into and worried about or is it more likely a short term that can go away on its own. Two recent and more obvious examples basically in the last week are a picture frame falling down that the stand device was an interlocking thing that collapsed and the connecting parts weren’t separated and a few hours ago I got new filters for my air purifier from amazon. I turned the power off from the button removed the old filter. As I am putting new one in the machine starts up. In the filter area there is nothing electrical going to the machines brain. This happens twice and then third time I unplugged it and did it again. So that last time i just put filter in while it was running put cover on and walked sheepishly away. I dont wanna tie up or waste your time. So my question is just should I be freaked out or am I good to ignore it? Thanks if you have time and if not no worries.
 

Old Man Mike

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Libraries of things to possibly say. I've mentioned that my brother and sister-in-law lived for many years in a poltergeist house, so I know a lot about this.

I don't want to write too much more about it but I'll say this: almost all poltergeist activity is "nuisance" not danger. It's usually as if something wants to mess with you but within strict limits. Handle it with as much good humor as possible. The main thing NOT to do is to get curious and try to use a OUIJA board. That, in lots of cases, seems to act as an encouragement to nastier and nastier manifestations. Jesuit priest and Vatican consultant Fr Herbert Thurston wrote a terrific book on this in the middle of the 20th century.
 

INLaw

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The book called ghosts and poltergeists by Father Herbert Thurston?
 

INLaw

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Thank you for making me feel a little better. Found and ordered the book online and just thank you 🙏🏻
 

Irish#1

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Awesome feed back. I too like many others, enjoy your input on these subjects. It is a really good movie! Need to find it streaming somewhere.
It's on Prime, but if you don't have Prime, just google it. Several options available.
 

Irish#1

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OMM I think you mentioned poltergeist as an area you knew a bit about. If i got poltergeist stuff going on is this something I should be super clued into and worried about or is it more likely a short term that can go away on its own. Two recent and more obvious examples basically in the last week are a picture frame falling down that the stand device was an interlocking thing that collapsed and the connecting parts weren’t separated and a few hours ago I got new filters for my air purifier from amazon. I turned the power off from the button removed the old filter. As I am putting new one in the machine starts up. In the filter area there is nothing electrical going to the machines brain. This happens twice and then third time I unplugged it and did it again. So that last time i just put filter in while it was running put cover on and walked sheepishly away. I dont wanna tie up or waste your time. So my question is just should I be freaked out or am I good to ignore it? Thanks if you have time and if not no worries.
I'm not sure where I stand with these occurrences, but my initial thought on the purifier is you have a problem somewhere with the power. Even though you unplugged it from the power source, keep in mind that there is probably a capacitor in the unit. It will retain a little power for a while.
 

INLaw

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I'm not sure where I stand with these occurrences, but my initial thought on the purifier is you have a problem somewhere with the power. Even though you unplugged it from the power source, keep in mind that there is probably a capacitor in the unit. It will retain a little power for a while.
This is possible. The one that got me more but was harder to describe was the picture frame. Think like two chain links disconnect but both links are still completely intact.
 

Irish#1

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This is possible. The one that got me more but was harder to describe was the picture frame. Think like two chain links disconnect but both links are still completely intact.
Yeah, I've got nothing for you on the frame. lol
 

Old Man Mike

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Yes. I note the clever (and pragmatically understandable) dodge used in the "no evidence that these are extraterrestrial", using the severe definition of "evidence" as physical remnants of flying craft only. Then, thus relieved of the panic shock potential of talking further about the subject, they can say more mind-stretching things --- but even there you have to remain open-minded to spot the extent to which they are admitting things.

In the end, of course, the commentary, though not hostile toward the subject at all, does not contain new encounter data. We're still waiting for the details of those 140 Pentagon-DIA cases.

When the Stanford astrophysicist Peter Sturrock gave me a (very) small fragment of an alleged Brazilian UFO fragment, I and my research friends had a shot at testing for evidence very near to conclusive. We looked for non-Solar System isotope ratios in a metal fragment which had to come from high technology means (ex. no pure metal of this element exists in nature; it must be produced by high technology and controlled high heat methods --- talking about Magnesium.) Our tests came just down in the gray area dammit. Another maybe, maybe not. I could have held a piece (however small) of an ET craft or device in my hand.Photo on 2018-03-26 at 20.16.jpg
 

Sea Turtle

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Mike, what are your thoughts on Charles James Hall, his experiences and books about the Tall Whites?
 
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GATTACA!

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Just watched the UFO episode in the new batch of "Unsolved Mysteries" Netflix dropped recently. It was all about the UFO sightings over Lake Michigan in 1994. Gotta say as a skeptic it was pretty compelling. Over 300 people reported seeing moving lighted objects. All their stories seemed to match up with one another. The focus of the episode was a radar technician from the area that tracked the whole event. They also have recordings of 911 calls of people reporting it.

I know it was 1994, but no one walked outside with their camera and snapped a shot?? Would make things much more simple. Something obviously happened that night. Makes you think.
 

arahop

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Just watched the UFO episode in the new batch of "Unsolved Mysteries" Netflix dropped recently. It was all about the UFO sightings over Lake Michigan in 1994. Gotta say as a skeptic it was pretty compelling. Over 300 people reported seeing moving lighted objects. All their stories seemed to match up with one another. The focus of the episode was a radar technician from the area that tracked the whole event. They also have recordings of 911 calls of people reporting it.

I know it was 1994, but no one walked outside with their camera and snapped a shot?? Would make things much more simple. Something obviously happened that night. Makes you think.
There are several Joe Rogan Podcasts that will definitely open ones eyes.
David Fravor a fighter pilot.
Ryan Graves fighter pilot
Bob Lazar who seemed way out there but actually a lot of his story checks out. Mysterious element 115. Some will say he is a crazy and that might be, but he has too many details of the gravity propulsion system most likely used by UFOs, UAPs. his story hasn't changed in 30 years


Great Documentary. "I know what I saw'
goes over highly credible account with people like astronauts Edgar Mitchell and Gordon Cooper.
Coopers account saw one of these land on his base circa 1952.

These craft are capable of flying in air, and enter water without any loss of speed. Too much smoke to the fire for me..

The truth is out there
 

Old Man Mike

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I was the main UFO investigator on the Holland, MI radar case.

I and my buddy were the only ones allowed in to interview the radar operator
(Jack Bushong) and his boss. It was my drawings of the radar recordings that
were ultimately sent to NOAA in Washington and then to the USAF from which
they were the FOIA release (which might have appeared on the show (I didn't
see that production.))

The case is a powerful case, and the height finder element of Bushong's radar
allows one to calculate a truly astounding speed for the things.

P.S. Don't believe a word of what Lazar says. A thorn in the side of real UFO research.
 

Sea Turtle

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Charles James Hall has some crazy stories. I just wonder if he's credible.
 
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GATTACA!

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I and my buddy were the only ones allowed in to interview the radar operator
(Jack Bushong) and his boss.
Pretty sad Jack was basically forced to quit. Even if there were no UFOs that was pretty messed up.
 

arahop

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I was the main UFO investigator on the Holland, MI radar case.

I and my buddy were the only ones allowed in to interview the radar operator
(Jack Bushong) and his boss. It was my drawings of the radar recordings that
were ultimately sent to NOAA in Washington and then to the USAF from which
they were the FOIA release (which might have appeared on the show (I didn't
see that production.))

The case is a powerful case, and the height finder element of Bushong's radar
allows one to calculate a truly astounding speed for the things.

P.S. Don't believe a word of what Lazar says. A thorn in the side of real UFO research.

OMM do you recall the speeds in that investigation?

Couple of things about Lazar that a lot of people hold against him and deny him credibility.
Falsification of his Academic History, which is true but there is an explanation.
He got in trouble for getting involved with prostitution
Government claims that he didn't work at Los Alamos. Knepp and Corbell proved that he did.
George Knepp and Jeremy Corbell at least bought his story and vetted a lot of it.
Element 115. Supposed energy source for this kind of travel
Not exactly going to bat for Lazar but he was spot on and extremely specific with how these things fly. Pulled not pushed through gravity.

Interesting to note that the FBI raided him circa 2017 and a laboratory that he works at.

I don't see where Lazar has made money or tried to off his account. Seems to hate the spotlight.
I keep an open mind mind to Lazar. Our known science and what these things are capable of is hard to grasp for the scientific mind. 150 years ago we were on horse and buggy.. We go to the moon less than 100 years later, 20 years after Roswell, And anyone who argues the happenings at Roswell has a very long uphill battle. When something such as these UFOs shows this kind of superiority over technology and science, We are like an Ant trying to figure out human science. And humans carry a lot of pride and ego. Guys like Sagan and Degrass Tyson want extraordinary proof.
It's there and has been. You either see and accept or you don't.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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OMM do you recall the speeds in that investigation?

Couple of things about Lazar that a lot of people hold against him and deny him credibility.
Falsification of his Academic History, which is true but there is an explanation.
He got in trouble for getting involved with prostitution
Government claims that he didn't work at Los Alamos. Knepp and Corbell proved that he did.
George Knepp and Jeremy Corbell at least bought his story and vetted a lot of it.
Element 115. Supposed energy source for this kind of travel
Not exactly going to bat for Lazar but he was spot on and extremely specific with how these things fly. Pulled not pushed through gravity.

Interesting to note that the FBI raided him circa 2017 and a laboratory that he works at.

I don't see where Lazar has made money or tried to off his account. Seems to hate the spotlight.
I keep an open mind mind to Lazar. Our known science and what these things are capable of is hard to grasp for the scientific mind. 150 years ago we were on horse and buggy.. We go to the moon less than 100 years later, 20 years after Roswell, And anyone who argues the happenings at Roswell has a very long uphill battle. When something such as these UFOs shows this kind of superiority over technology and science, We are like an Ant trying to figure out human science. And humans carry a lot of pride and ego. Guys like Sagan and Degrass Tyson want extraordinary proof.
It's there and has been. You either see and accept or you don't.
It seems to me that credibility of sources and converging lines of evidence is all we have to work with in public sector. I want to believe but I can’t let myself skip over all the nuances of each individual “event”
 

GATTACA!

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OMM do you recall the speeds in that investigation?

Couple of things about Lazar that a lot of people hold against him and deny him credibility.
Falsification of his Academic History, which is true but there is an explanation.
He got in trouble for getting involved with prostitution
Government claims that he didn't work at Los Alamos. Knepp and Corbell proved that he did.
George Knepp and Jeremy Corbell at least bought his story and vetted a lot of it.
Element 115. Supposed energy source for this kind of travel
Not exactly going to bat for Lazar but he was spot on and extremely specific with how these things fly. Pulled not pushed through gravity.

Interesting to note that the FBI raided him circa 2017 and a laboratory that he works at.

I don't see where Lazar has made money or tried to off his account. Seems to hate the spotlight.
I keep an open mind mind to Lazar. Our known science and what these things are capable of is hard to grasp for the scientific mind. 150 years ago we were on horse and buggy.. We go to the moon less than 100 years later, 20 years after Roswell, And anyone who argues the happenings at Roswell has a very long uphill battle. When something such as these UFOs shows this kind of superiority over technology and science, We are like an Ant trying to figure out human science. And humans carry a lot of pride and ego. Guys like Sagan and Degrass Tyson want extraordinary proof.
It's there and has been. You either see and accept or you don't.
I just went back and checked the episode and Jack says 72,000 mph, which would mean it could go from NY to LA in 2 minutes.
 
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