Politics

[Cackalacky2.0]

The biggest influences on a kid are the parents, no? When I attended university the professors wanted little to do with us so I find it hard to see how they programmed kids. The environment of university certainly bred an appreciation to other cultures than my own which certainly goes against the nativist approach that modern conservativitism is pushing. Realizing that Muslim/LGBTQ weren't these terrible people that conservatives were saying they are was a big push away from my conservative position.

Programmed….lol

 

[NDMatt91]

There are really only a few "good" things that come out of this if you're not a Democrat.

1. This will severely weaken Trump since his nutty candidates flamed out and the ones who did win (Vance, Budd, etc.) underperformed other Republicans on the ballot in their states.
2. Biden will almost certainly be the Democratic nominee in 2024. The mid-term wasn't a wipeout so why should he leave? What is the pitch of other Democrats? Harris? She is even less popular than Biden is. Newsom? He had 40%+ put on him and had to face a recall in a solid blue state, and I'm not sure being the lockdown Governor will play well in other parts of the country.
3. There's a good chance that Biden misreads this mid-term. His average approval rating is 43%. Voters weren't voting for him. In fact, most voters think he's doing a poor job as President and don't approve of the direction of the Democratic-controlled Congress. The issue is the GOP needs to dump the crazies. Crazy and being obsessed with the 2020 election will outweigh a party doing a poor job that doesn't have crazy candidates. If they dump the crazies, they'll win. If Chris Sununu had run for Senate in NH, Maggie Hassan would be out of a job. If Trump hadn't made it his mission to make Pat Toomey and Doug Ducey unelectable we would've held PA and Mark Kelly would likely be out a job.

So now it's on to 2024. I'll ask my fellow Republicans one simple question: Do you want to win? If the answer is yes, then we need to dump Trump in favor of DeSantis. Imagine having a 46 year-old DeSantis on the debate stage with a soon-to-be 82 year-old Biden in 2024. Talk about a bloodbath. The majority of swing voters in the swing states will not vote for an 81 year-old who is on the cognitive decline. The election will be about Biden - his mental state/age, his low numbers, and his failings. If the nominee is Trump, the election will be all about him. If you make the election about your opponent your opponent will lose.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

90% of young voters being progressive should tell you something. As a demographic they have less worldly experience, they're easily manipulated. Reproductive rights are often near the top of their priorities because, well...they're young, dumb and full of...
They're useful sheep. Just look at how many bought into the Biden student loan cancellation hoax, unaware that it was likely to get struck down as unconstitutional. It also makes sense that the older people get they tend to trend toward conservatism as a whole. As you age you gain perspective and wisdom. Well, some people do anyway.

FYI the judge who ruled this is a lower court. It will be appealed and it will be ok. Hoax lmao… good lord. The federal government holds 90% of the student loans. Haha.

This is yet another example of the GOP doing everything in their power to make the everyday persons life harder and yet another reason why the young people will continue to vote against them.

 

[NorthDakota]

FYI the judge who ruled this is a lower court. It will be appealed and it will be ok. Hoax lmao… good lord. The federal government holds 90% of the student loans. Haha.

This is yet another example of the GOP doing everything in their power to make the everyday persons life harder and yet another reason why the young people will continue to vote against them.

Lower court judges get the ball rolling on these things.

Frankly, you should support the judge's ruling. It's basically an executive payoff to three preferred groups. 1) young college educated people. 2) older voters who haven't paid theirs off (poor choice in major/ school), and 3) academia who helped create this mess.

What do those groups have in common?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Lower court judges get the ball rolling on these things.

Frankly, you should support the judge's ruling. It's basically an executive payoff to three preferred groups. 1) young college educated people. 2) older voters who haven't paid theirs off (poor choice in major/ school), and 3) academia who helped create this mess.

What do those groups have in common?

I support the help. I busted my ass and have paid plenty in interest. Paid off one set of loans already. Went Back to school and busted my ass. Got a job paid my loans. I have continued to pay them even through covid. Kicking ass right now doing the best I ever have. I contribute a bunch to the economy and have improved my life along the way as well as that of my family. That’s the point. School loans should be zero interest. If jobs require college education and you don’t have enough to go to college then loans are required.

 

[TorontoGold]

Programmed….lol

Nothing says programmed like an institution that offers degrees in literally every area of life. A community of people wanting to better themselves by achieving higher education, but those listening to shock jocks demonizing people are not the ones who are programmed. Got it lol.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

There are really only a few "good" things that come out of this if you're not a Democrat.

1. This will severely weaken Trump since his nutty candidates flamed out and the ones who did win (Vance, Budd, etc.) underperformed other Republicans on the ballot in their states.
2. Biden will almost certainly be the Democratic nominee in 2024. The mid-term wasn't a wipeout so why should he leave? What is the pitch of other Democrats? Harris? She is even less popular than Biden is. Newsom? He had 40%+ put on him and had to face a recall in a solid blue state, and I'm not sure being the lockdown Governor will play well in other parts of the country.
3. There's a good chance that Biden misreads this mid-term. His average approval rating is 43%. Voters weren't voting for him. In fact, most voters think he's doing a poor job as President and don't approve of the direction of the Democratic-controlled Congress. The issue is the GOP needs to dump the crazies. Crazy and being obsessed with the 2020 election will outweigh a party doing a poor job that doesn't have crazy candidates. If they dump the crazies, they'll win. If Chris Sununu had run for Senate in NH, Maggie Hassan would be out of a job. If Trump hadn't made it his mission to make Pat Toomey and Doug Ducey unelectable we would've held PA and Mark Kelly would likely be out a job.

So now it's on to 2024. I'll ask my fellow Republicans one simple question: Do you want to win? If the answer is yes, then we need to dump Trump in favor of DeSantis. Imagine having a 46 year-old DeSantis on the debate stage with a soon-to-be 82 year-old Biden in 2024. Talk about a bloodbath. The majority of swing voters in the swing states will not vote for an 81 year-old who is on the cognitive decline. The election will be about Biden - his mental state/age, his low numbers, and his failings. If the nominee is Trump, the election will be all about him. If you make the election about your opponent your opponent will lose.

The GOP Civil war will not be televised. But I’ll be paying attention anyway.

 

[NorthDakota]

I support the help. I busted my ass and have paid plenty in interest. Paid off one set of loans already. Went Back to school and busted my ass. Got a job paid my loans. I have continued to pay them even through covid. Kicking ass right now doing the best I ever have. I contribute a bunch to the economy and have improved my life along the way as well as that of my family. That’s the point. School loans should be zero interest. If jobs require college education and you don’t have enough to go to college then loans are required.

Reform, interest caps, etc are all fine. I got about well over $100k to pay off. So I sympathize there.

But this starts first and foremost with the schools knowing that people can (and will) sign up for huge loans...and the government will provide those loans.

What is the end result here? We gonna do this every couple years to entice people with college loans to vote for one candidate or another?

If Biden can do this, it opens up a can of worms that no serious person probably wants.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Reform, interest caps, etc are all fine. I got about well over $100k to pay off. So I sympathize there.

But this starts first and foremost with the schools knowing that people can (and will) sign up for huge loans...and the government will provide those loans.

What is the end result here? We gonna do this every couple years to entice people with college loans to vote for one candidate or another?

If Biden can do this, it opens up a can of worms that no serious person probably wants.

Zero interest loans. Cap the amount schools can charge. Limit the increase in costs, forgiveness for people who complete their degrees and can document X amount of time in working post graduation. There are all kinds of ways to tackle this. I agree reform is necessary and it starts with costs. It also needs to drive people into usable degrees to an extent.

$400 billion that will ultimately go right into the economy is NOTHING to this country. It was a great idea. I plan on going on a vacation with mine. Probably to a blue state though.

 

[GATTACA!]

Reform, interest caps, etc are all fine. I got about well over $100k to pay off. So I sympathize there.

But this starts first and foremost with the schools knowing that people can (and will) sign up for huge loans...and the government will provide those loans.

What is the end result here? We gonna do this every couple years to entice people with college loans to vote for one candidate or another?

If Biden can do this, it opens up a can of worms that no serious person probably wants.

Like a president giving every American a check and making sure his name was signed on the bottom? lol

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I told y’all. Pollsters did not include the young people in the polls because they couldn’t involve them in the polls to accurate gauge their participation.

 

[dang227]

Screens


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[Cackalacky2.0]

If Biden can do this, it opens up a can of worms that no serious person probably wants.

I don’t understand this. If the government is the holder it can do what it wants just as any privately held loan holder.

 

[NorthDakota]

Like a president giving every American a check and making sure his name was signed on the bottom? lol

A dorky stunt. But the payment was approved by Congress right?

 

[NorthDakota]

I don’t understand this. If the government is the holder it can do what it wants just as any privately held loan holder.

Joe Biden is not the government. He leads the executive branch.

Hes not even asserting that he can do whatever he wants with debt generally. He's claiming Congress provided the authority to do it here. Congress (both GOP and Dem) have both said they have not.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Joe Biden is not the government. He leads the executive branch.

Hes not even asserting that he can do whatever he wants with debt generally. He's claiming Congress provided the authority to do it here. Congress (both GOP and Dem) have both said they have not.

Biden cites the Hero’s act which Both Trump and Biden have cited as authority

“Notwithstanding any other provision of law, unless enacted with specific reference to this section, the Secretary of Education may waive or modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs . . . as the Secretary deems necessary in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency.”


Section 1098bb(a)(2) further provides that any waiver or modification must not act to worsen a student’s financial position under the loan. Thus, during the period of suspension, no interest will accrue on outstanding loans so that borrowers are in the same position as they were before the suspension period began.

Section 1098bb(b)(3) provides for blanket waivers or modifications to the statute or regulations — that is, such waivers or modifications do not need to be reviewed and granted case by case.

The Trump and Biden administrations relied on these provisions to suspend student loan payments during the national emergency related to the pandemic, from March 2020 until January 2023. The crucial point is that 1098bb(a)(2) prohibits a waiver or modification from worsening a student’s financial position


Soooo just sounds like GOP making something out of nothing AGAIN and in generally doing their best to make life harder for common people. They have lost all the other challenges to this except for a a trump judge intervening.

 

[NorthDakota]

Biden cites the Hero’s act which Both Trump and Biden have cited as authority

“Notwithstanding any other provision of law, unless enacted with specific reference to this section, the Secretary of Education may waive or modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs . . . as the Secretary deems necessary in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency.”


Section 1098bb(a)(2) further provides that any waiver or modification must not act to worsen a student’s financial position under the loan. Thus, during the period of suspension, no interest will accrue on outstanding loans so that borrowers are in the same position as they were before the suspension period began.

Section 1098bb(b)(3) provides for blanket waivers or modifications to the statute or regulations — that is, such waivers or modifications do not need to be reviewed and granted case by case.

The Trump and Biden administrations relied on these provisions to suspend student loan payments during the national emergency related to the pandemic, from March 2020 until January 2023. The crucial point is that 1098bb(a)(2) prohibits a waiver or modification from worsening a student’s financial position


Soooo just sounds like GOP making something out of nothing AGAIN and in generally doing their best to make life harder for common people. They have lost all the other challenges to this except for a a trump judge intervening.

Lol what? Something out of nothing? What is the national emergency? Even liberal legal minds have said this is very iffy. How many hundred billion is this again?

Where I've seen challenges fail is on standing, not on statutory authority. I haven't followed super close, but I believe the hope is to avoid the statute being analyzed at all. I think they've modified the plan at least once to avoid standing.

And under worst case scenario - Dems would get a "win" for trying and do exactly what you are doing - pointing at them mean judges and the Republicans for not supporting it.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Lol what? Something out of nothing? What is the national emergency? Even liberal legal minds have said this is very iffy. How many hundred billion is this again?

Where I've seen challenges fail is on standing, not on statutory authority. I haven't followed super close, but I believe the hope is to avoid the statute being analyzed at all. I think they've modified the plan at least once to avoid standing.

And under worst case scenario - Dems would get a "win" for trying and do exactly what you are doing - pointing at them mean judges and the Republicans for not supporting it.

I mean what politician hasnt uses the grey area in legislation before for. They aren’t making it harder on the borrower by forgiving. It’s the government s money so who has standing? You ask what emergency we’ll COVId considering loan payments are still being sequestered. I don’t think it’s iffy at all given the language. This act was already approved by congress so there is that as well.

 

[jprue24]

Maricopa County throwing up double birds

 

[Bishop2b5]

It’s the government s money so who has standing?

This explains a lot. This has to be one of the most misinformed, ridiculous, obtuse, clueless things ever posted on IE.

 

[jprue24]

This explains a lot. This has to be one of the most misinformed, ridiculous, obtuse, clueless things ever posted on IE.

"iT's ThE pEoPlE's MoNeY, eVeRyOnE hAs StAnDiNg"

 

[TorontoGold]

"iT's ThE pEoPlE's MoNeY, eVeRyOnE hAs StAnDiNg"

Who's going to pay for it?

 

[Bishop2b5]

"iT's ThE pEoPlE's MoNeY, eVeRyOnE hAs StAnDiNg"

View attachment 3051913

Who's going to pay for it?

Instead of juvenile, smarmy, snarky replies, use your big words and tell me why you think it IS the government's money or why those of us who paid our student loans, paid our kids' way through college, or couldn't afford to pay for college and instead joined the military or went to work should pay someone else's student loan debt because they made poor financial decisions about what school to attend, what degree to earn, and how much money to borrow.

 

[drayer54]

 

[jprue24]

Instead of juvenile, smarmy, snarky replies, use your big words and tell me why you think it IS the government's money or why those of us who paid our student loans, paid our kids' way through college, or couldn't afford to pay for college and instead joined the military or went to work should pay someone else's student loan debt because they made poor financial decisions about what school to attend, what degree to earn, and how much money to borrow.

Lol....are you serious? You need me to spell out middle school civics to you? Fine.

When you pay taxes, you give the government money and they spend it as they see fit. You get a say in how and what that money is spent on through a variety of ways. Voting is the most influential way (assuming you aren't wealthy), but you can communicate with your representatives too.

I made certain choices so neither myself or my son need to get student aide. I still support debt relief because it helps people and I'm not a selfish prick.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Lol....are you serious? You need me to spell out middle school civics to you? Fine.

When you pay taxes, you give the government money and they spend it as they see fit. You get a say in how and what that money is spent on through a variety of ways. Voting is the most influential way (assuming you aren't wealthy), but you can communicate with your representatives too.

I made certain choices so neither myself or my son need to get student aide. I still support debt relief because it helps people and I'm not a selfish prick.

You're missing a fundamental aspect of it all. It IS NOT the government's money. PERIOD. The fact that you think so is part of the problem with our country. It's the people's money and the government is tasked with being a good steward of the public funds. The government is supposed to work for us, not the other way around. Here's something from the Obama administration archives concerning the OMB: "The Federal Government has a fundamental responsibility to be effective stewards of the taxpayers' money." This has been someth9ing explicitly stated since at least the Jefferson administration.

If you support debt relief, how about paying off people's medical bills? How about paying for all chemo treatment for cancer patients? Why not car payments for young people who bought more car than they can afford? I spent too much on guitars last year, so how about my credit cards? Student loan debt is the product of people making really bad decisions about how much to borrow, what school to attend, what degree to earn, and then saying, "Oh, my degree in XYZ won't get me a job that will allow me to support myself and pay my debts." Yeah, welcome to reality. LOTS of us wanted to study something fun instead of practical, but knew the consequences, so we made mature decisions. It's not our job to pay your debts. You earned them. I paid mine. The rest of us paid ours. We have NO obligation to pay someone else's who made bad decisions. Now, if YOU want to pay them, nobody will stop you. Have at it.

 

[SeekNDestroy]

This explains a lot. This has to be one of the most misinformed, ridiculous, obtuse, clueless things ever posted on IE.

Even more ridiculous than your lengthy commendation of George Wallace?

 

[TorontoGold]

You're missing a fundamental aspect of it all. It IS NOT the government's money. PERIOD. The fact that you think so is part of the problem with our country. It's the people's money and the government is tasked with being a good steward of the public funds. The government is supposed to work for us, not the other way around. Here's something from the Obama administration archives concerning the OMB: "The Federal Government has a fundamental responsibility to be effective stewards of the taxpayers' money." This has been someth9ing explicitly stated since at least the Jefferson administration.

If you support debt relief, how about paying off people's medical bills? How about paying for all chemo treatment for cancer patients? Why not car payments for young people who bought more car than they can afford? I spent too much on guitars last year, so how about my credit cards? Student loan debt is the product of people making really bad decisions about how much to borrow, what school to attend, what degree to earn, and then saying, "Oh, my degree in XYZ won't get me a job that will allow me to support myself and pay my debts." Yeah, welcome to reality. LOTS of us wanted to study something fun instead of practical, but knew the consequences, so we made mature decisions. It's not our job to pay your debts. You earned them. I paid mine. The rest of us paid ours. We have NO obligation to pay someone else's who made bad decisions. Now, if YOU want to pay them, nobody will stop you. Have at it.

Yeah medical bills would have been the first thing I would have suggested get covered by the government.

I've already laid out why an unbearable debt load is bad multiple times in these threads. You've never wanted to engage on a discussion with economic theory, everything is a culture war or some sort of anecdotal note. You're welcome to pitch in some reasoning instead of half baked Clay Travis re-runs.

Just because you went through something that was unpleasant doesn't mean somebody else should. Your taxes are being spent at a higher rate to liquify brown people in the desert.

 

[NDMatt91]

The GOP Civil war will not be televised. But I’ll be paying attention anyway.

On a side note, I predicted this would happen, but it's not surprising that networks like MSNBC and groups like The Lincoln Project and Meidas Touch which claim to be pro-Democracy, but are really just pro-Democratic Party, are essentially rooting for Trump to win the primary and beat DeSantis and any other Republican. The guy they said was the worst Republican ever and the biggest threat to Democracy, yet they want him to win. I suspect it's because they want the easiest possible opponent in the General Election. I never really bought into the ratings theory, but it does somewhat validate those who said that those networks only care about ratings and LP and MT want Trump around to continue their grift.