The Official Irishenvy Fire Tommy Rees Thread

[bobbyok1]

No matter what happens this year I want Freeman to have 4 years. I want him to have his choice at OC. If he fails he fails but no matter what there should be some talent here for whoever is next. Unless there is a total collapse of this defense there is no way Freeman is going to be fired at the end of the season. THERE IS NO WAY URBAN MEYER EVER COACHES A DOWN AT ND, as a head coach. He won't do it. ND won't hire.

4 years is an eternity in today's coaching market when you are failing to execute. Urban Meyer aside, If Freeman is floundering by the end of this year or sometime next year, he needs to go. If it's completely obvious a guy is in over his head, he's got to go no matter how long he's been in the roll.

In general I would agree with you. But we've already had two really bad losses this year. If he piles up two or three more . . . Man that's tough to put off on a coordinator alone

To be clear I really want Marcus to succeed. Really I do. But man this is an ugly start, including the bowl game loss.

 

[FOTY977]

If we finish under .500 who wouldn’t want Urban in 2023? Virtue signalers need not respond. I want a proven winner even if he is a tarnished choirboy.

And once again the ignore feature saves me a grey hair…for now

 

[BeatSC]

even if urban came here he never sticks around very long and i dont think UM and Jack S. would see eye to eye on much.

Who GAS if the see eye to eye. Our best ten years was with Lou who battled the admin all the time. Urban is one of Lou’s disciples. Let’s see what Lou would say about Urban coaching at ND. “What took you so long!”

 

[BeatSC]

I’m starting a Go Fund Me for Urban for 2024. If Freeman can salvage a winning season 6-6 and a toilet bowl win he can stay one more season where 9 wins Min are necessary to keep his job. This dumb deer in the headlights blind stare won’t cut it. Kelly took shit for losing his shit but I noticed it was ok for Saban and his bald ass to go ape shit on the sidelines with no one GAS. Show some fire Freeman before you get fired. If he takes up to the promise land I will be the first one to kiss the ground he walks on.

 

[ndfanatic78]

4 years is an eternity in today's coaching market when you are failing to execute. Urban Meyer aside, If Freeman is floundering by the end of this year or sometime next year, he needs to go. If it's completely obvious a guy is in over his head, he's got to go no matter how long he's been in the roll.

In general I would agree with you. But we've already had two really bad losses this year. If he piles up two or three more . . . Man that's tough to put off on a coordinator alone

To be clear I really want Marcus to succeed. Really I do. But man this is an ugly start, including the bowl game loss.

I would tend to agree with you, but look at the recruiting the past 4 years. Kelly did not leave the cupboard as full as many assumed he had. There are major holes in this team and not just on offense. Right now the defense is playing well despite major talent issues at LB, DE, NT, and CB. We are undersized on the DL. We are slow at LB. We aren't athletic enough at CB.

The glaring issue holding the team back though is the offense which Freeman admittedly didn't know enough about and from everything I have read and seen he has very little, if any input, on. So I am giving him a lot of leeway as we knew he was going to be learning on the job, anyone that didn't expect that was fooling themselves. I also have never been a fan the Tommy hire, even though I think he is going to be a hell of coach, he was not ready to be the QB coach or have the respect of the HS coaches he was recruiting kids from, nor was he ready for to be the OC at ND and the only reason he succeeded till now was that he had Kelly helping to develop the game plans, which is one of the few things Kelly was actually good at, jk, I know there was others.

The last thing I considered is if Freeman continues to bring in top 10/5 classes even though he might not be excelling the field will set the next coach for greater success from the start of his tenure. That is why I am willing to give him 4 years with the caveat that the defense doesn't totally fall apart and he keeps bringing in top 10 classes.

 

[stlnd01]

Who GAS if the see eye to eye. Our best ten years was with Lou who battled the admin all the time. Urban is one of Lou’s disciples. Let’s see what Lou would say about Urban coaching at ND. “What took you so long!”

He was? He coached one year under Holtz (three under Davie). For all I know he was part of Bob's coup.

Either way. No thanks. Yeah Urban has won lots of football games but he's a scumbag who doesn't deserve our job, nor for that matter does he deserve mention in the same sentence as Lou Holtz.

 

[Grahambo]

The Urban ship has sailed and is never coming back.

 

[ndfanatic78]

He was? He coached one year under Holtz (three under Davie). For all I know he was part of Bob's coup.

Either way. No thanks. Yeah Urban has won lots of football games but he's a scumbag who doesn't deserve our job, nor for that matter does he deserve mention in the same sentence as Lou Holtz.

From what I remember Urban called Davie when he was offered the position and Davie basically told him it was really, really hard to win at ND, helping to persuade him not to take the job. I never heard anything about Urban calling Holtz.

 

[stlnd01]

From what I remember Urban called Davie when he was offered the position and Davie basically told him it was really, really hard to win at ND, helping to persuade him not to take the job. I never heard anything about Urban calling Holtz.

It was really really hard for Bob Davie to win at Notre Dame.

 

[IrishFanForever23]

From what I remember Urban called Davie when he was offered the position and Davie basically told him it was really, really hard to win at ND, helping to persuade him not to take the job. I never heard anything about Urban calling Holtz.

Pretty sure the discussion was always between Holtz and Urban.

 

[thekid33]

If we are being honest, does anyone think:

1) ND would offer it to Urban at this point
2) Urban would take it

This university doesn't care enough about winning for either of those two things to happen.

They won't look past his baggage and offer it to him. Even if they somehow did, he wouldn't take it unless they are willing to make changes that they never would be willing to make. He'll have other offers at places that will look past his baggage and also be "easier" to win at.

MF is the coach for probably at least two more seasons.

He is proving he can recruit and the defense, while there's room for improvement, is not the problem.

His success is going to be determined by what happens with Rees.

If he sticks with him, he will fail. Irregardless of if TR's offense philosophy and play calling are good or bad, he has proven that he sucks at evaluating and developing QB's.

CJ Carr might be "the guy" to change that, but we are still at long away (in college football time) from him starting. MF can't stick with Rees and the current group of QBs that long in the hope that Carr will suddenly redeem TR.

 

[notredomer23]

"Hire Urban Meyer"

 

[irishff1014]

Day may have NFL aspirations what we do not know about and Hartline knows. On the flip side, I also think Hartline would of course say he's not interested in ND bc any speculation that gains legs could hurt Ohio State's recruiting. Nobody knows if Hartline is interested besides Hartline. While I am not certain he would be way better than Rees at calling plays, I can almost guarantee he's a better recruiter, better personality, and likely a better developer of talent. I bet offensive recruiting would go steroid if Hartline were announced as OC. The staff needs to make some changes to excite the recruits and convince people that ND has a bright future bc the program is at a very low place right now. Hartline could help add a transfer QB and he'd have a lot to work with as far as the incoming freshman. If he wants a big HC gig, there's no better way to make a name for yourself that to fix a broken offense on a national stage. ND's offense shouldn't be that hard to fix. Also, would Ohio State actually consider elevating a position coach to HC? I highly doubt that even if he has a lot of potential. If Day leaves, Ohio State will likely go for Fickell.

You have to look around college football and see how that has worked out. Look at A&M they are killing in the recruiting world but are not winning like they should. You can recruit until you are purple in the face. If you can’t develop them and coach them then recruiting means nothing.

I don’t think I would say that you hire a 1st time OC with a 2nd yr coach that struggled in his first year. And we don’t need another situation like BK where he keeps hiring his friends. That’s didn’t work out that well.

 

[irishff1014]

If we are being honest, does anyone think:

1) ND would offer it to Urban at this point
2) Urban would take it

This university doesn't care enough about winning for either of those two things to happen.

They won't look past his baggage and offer it to him. Even if they somehow did, he wouldn't take it unless they are willing to make changes that they never would be willing to make. He'll have other offers at places that will look past his baggage and also be "easier" to win at.

MF is the coach for probably at least two more seasons.

He is proving he can recruit and the defense, while there's room for improvement, is not the problem.

His success is going to be determined by what happens with Rees.

If he sticks with him, he will fail. Irregardless of if TR's offense philosophy and play calling are good or bad, he has proven that he sucks at evaluating and developing QB's.

CJ Carr might be "the guy" to change that, but we are still at long away (in college football time) from him starting. MF can't stick with Rees and the current group of QBs that long in the hope that Carr will suddenly redeem TR.

I know everyone has their own opinion but if someone mentions hiring Urban it should be a permeant ban.

 

[Irishdrunk]

I know everyone has their own opinion but if someone mentions hiring Urban it should be a permeant ban.

WHY??? LOL. Some program will hire Urban. I am sure its not going to be ND. But we are doing so well with Freeman so I guess we should focus our energies on getting that Humpty-Dumpty back on the wall towards being a ranked program again....

 

[thekid33]

I know everyone has their own opinion but if someone mentions hiring Urban it should be a permeant ban.

The odds of it happening are as good as me turning into an MLB starting SS at age 38. But, if people want to waste their time dreaming and posting about it...whatever, it's a free country.
I'd rather hope MF works out and talk about a new OC than bang the drum over something that won't happen - but, that's just me.

 

[ndfanatic78]

Pretty sure the discussion was always between Holtz and Urban.

He may have had a convo with Holtz. The one I’m referring to was between Urban and Davie. I never heard about a convo with Holtz, probably happened but that I never heard about. I did hear about the convo between Davie and Urban. I believe it was published by a couple ND beat writers back in the day.

 

[Irish4life]

Kirby year 1 lost at home to Vanderbilt

To expand on this, it's actually kinda interesting how similar ND 2022 and UGA 2016 are. UGA 2016 finished with the #102 scoring offense and the #35 scoring defense. ND currently has the #100 scoring offense and the #36 scoring defense. UGA had it's ugliest loss on the year on October 15th, 17-16 to Vanderbilt who was 2-4 heading into the game. ND had it's ugliest loss on the year (hopefully....) On October 15th 2022 to Stanford who was 1-4 heading into the game, 16-14.

 

[Irish4life]

If we are being honest, does anyone think:

1) ND would offer it to Urban at this point
2) Urban would take it

This university doesn't care enough about winning for either of those two things to happen.

They won't look past his baggage and offer it to him. Even if they somehow did, he wouldn't take it unless they are willing to make changes that they never would be willing to make. He'll have other offers at places that will look past his baggage and also be "easier" to win at.

MF is the coach for probably at least two more seasons.

He is proving he can recruit and the defense, while there's room for improvement, is not the problem.

His success is going to be determined by what happens with Rees.

If he sticks with him, he will fail. Irregardless of if TR's offense philosophy and play calling are good or bad, he has proven that he sucks at evaluating and developing QB's.

CJ Carr might be "the guy" to change that, but we are still at long away (in college football time) from him starting. MF can't stick with Rees and the current group of QBs that long in the hope that Carr will suddenly redeem TR.

Caring about winning and not being willing to look past Urban's baggage are not mutually exclusive.

 

[NDRock]

Bringing up Urban every time this program takes a downturn is pathetic. I never thought any fan base could be worse than the Vols with Gruden but here we are.

 

[thekid33]

Caring about winning and not being willing to look past Urban's baggage are not mutually exclusive.

Fair point. Don't disagree.

 

[Ray “The Mule” Finkle]

You have to look around college football and see how that has worked out. Look at A&M they are killing in the recruiting world but are not winning like they should. You can recruit until you are purple in the face. If you can’t develop them and coach them then recruiting means nothing.

I don’t think I would say that you hire a 1st time OC with a 2nd yr coach that struggled in his first year. And we don’t need another situation like BK where he keeps hiring his friends. That’s didn’t work out that well.

I actually completely agree with you. I’d love to have someone like Longo or some great middle aged OC. But I’d take Hartline over Rees and certainly over our current TE coach, who some have speculated that Freeman will target.

 

[arahop]

It was really really hard for Bob Davie to win at Notre Dame.

It's really hard to win at Notre Dame. The biggest opponent is the BOT and administration

 

[Irish4life]

It's really hard to win at Notre Dame. The biggest opponent is the BOT and administration

Not 2003 anymore lmfao. Just cuz they won't hire a scumbag like Urban or an evil human being like one of the Briles assistants doesn't mean the BOT and admin are getting in the way of winning at ND. SMH.

 

[FOTY977]

Not 2003 anymore lmfao. Just cuz they won't hire a scumbag like Urban or an evil human being like one of the Briles assistants doesn't mean the BOT and admin are getting in the way of winning at ND. SMH.

It’s not as bad as it was on the verge of being back then, but the level of investment & institutional support is meant to extract value from the fan base and appeal to casual followers who are satisfied with cosmetically competitive, but not championship caliber.

To become truly championship caliber would require such an outsized investment relative to the other priorities of the university as to be untenable (in the eyes of the powers that be).

 

[Irish4life]

It’s not as bad as it was on the verge of being back then, but the level of investment & institutional support is meant to extract value from the fan base and appeal to casual followers who are satisfied with cosmetically competitive, but not championship caliber.

To become truly championship caliber would require such an outsized investment relative to the other priorities of the university as to be untenable (in the eyes of the powers that be).

Completely, wholeheartedly, respectfully disagree. ND needs to get back to the rosters of 2015-2018.....and hit on a stud QB. With Freeman's recruiting prowess, I am confident that they will either get back there or exceed the talent level that was on those rosters. But like all things, time will tell.

 

[FOTY977]

Completely, wholeheartedly, respectfully disagree. ND needs to get back to the rosters of 2015-2018.....and hit on a stud QB. With Freeman's recruiting prowess, I am confident that they will either get back there or exceed the talent level that was on those rosters.

I think what you described is achievable for the occasional run, but I fail to see how they deliver on it year in and year out in the new NIL era. If the rules change and fortunes fall to ND’s favor then could be more likely. The more the world moves to a bidding war landscape the harder it becomes for ND because they just won’t go down that road.

I think Freeman is the best chance they will have for a while and am hopeful for him too, just not counting on much support from the supply lines and sadly, as the adage goes, armies March on their stomachs. Kelly got the investment to a point as to not be completely embarrassing and the iron is as hot as it ever will be for freeman to make a run, but I am skeptical of how that commitment continues to scale up going forward. Would quite like to be wrong here.

 

[Irish4life]

I think what you described is achievable for the occasional run, but I fail to see how they deliver on it year in and year out in the new NIL era. If the rules change and fortunes fall to ND’s favor then could be more likely. The more the world moves to a bidding war landscape the harder it becomes for ND because they just won’t go down that road.

I think Freeman is the best chance they will have for a while and am hopeful for him too, just not counting on much support from the supply lines and sadly, as the adage goes, armies March on their stomachs. Kelly got the investment to a point as to not be completely embarrassing and the iron is as hot as it ever will be for freeman to make a run, but I am skeptical of how that commitment continues to scale up going forward. Would quite like to be wrong here.

Notre Dame's players make a lot of NIL money, and they're 100% using it in recruiting. The deals just aren't negotiated until after they sign the LOI and get on campus. I think signs of the investment in ND football is that our coaches are making premium salaries, our football facilities were just updated in 2019, with more coming (if you believe Tim Prister of Irish Illustrated of course). I don't know many college football programs that are supposedly teetering on the brink of being shut down or w/e cuz NIL where all of those things are true.

 

[FOTY977]

Notre Dame's players make a lot of NIL money, and they're 100% using it in recruiting. The deals just aren't negotiated until after they sign the LOI and get on campus. I think signs of the investment in ND football is that our coaches are making premium salaries, our football facilities were just updated in 2019, with more coming (if you believe Tim Prister of Irish Illustrated of course). I don't know many college football programs that are supposedly teetering on the brink of being shut down or w/e cuz NIL where all of those things are true.

I really hope this is enough to get over the hump. From my limited perspective I feel like the factories are seemingly widening the gap. I’m curious what the future investments might be too, I’ve heard smoke of that for a while now.

 

[IrishLax]

The problem is that — unless they land a transfer QB or Angeli comes out of nowhere to be the real deal — there are no short term answers on offense. At least not in this scheme. Maybe you could run a different scheme with Buchner and be successful.

Then even if you get a good QB, you have to deal with the fact that you have maybe one total functional WR on offense in Merriweather. So unless you are adding someone in the transfer portal (spoiler alert: you aren’t) where is the upside for the offense next year?