'23 FL DE Keon Keeley (Prodigal Son)

[du Lac]

You go from speaking as the institution to saying "they looked like chumps" when a 17 year old kid committed to play football for someone else. I'm not sure those two go hand in hand, but if you've seen the right think piece on how ND as a university is struggling post Dante then by all means share the link.

It's a detriment to recruiting to go all in and chase wavering "commits". That's my opinion. Is MF a better recruiter than BK? Yes, I do think so. But remember, BK hit 284 in 2013, so as it stands, BK is the better recruiter. BK won on the field. That helped him recruit in 2013 and it helped him last year. As much as I think MF helped, that was BK's class and a lot of the momentum ND is reeling right now is due to BK's on the field success. All in has not worked yet. Maybe it will, but when a kid like Bowen or Dante start wavering, I am immediately looking for someone else. Just my opinion. Perhaps you'll be right and Dante, Bowen, and Keeley will all sign with ND or we will find 3-4 star replacements once we are done chasing. In that event, I will concede you were correct. I sincerely hope you are. If we even land one of them I say it was worth it. If we are able to replace all of them with quality players late in the game, I will also say it was worth a shot. I'm skeptical either will happen.

 

[INLaw]

It's a detriment to recruiting to go all in. That's my opinion. Is MF a better recruiter than BK? Yes, I do think so. But remember, BK hit 284 in 2013, so as it stands, BK is the better recruiter. BK won on the field. That helped him recruit in 2013 and it helped him last year. As much as I think MF helped, that was BK's class and a lot of the momentum ND is reeling right now is due to BK's on the field success. All in has not worked yet. Maybe it will, but when a kid like Bowen or Dante start wavering, I am immediately looking for someone else. Just my opinion. Perhaps you'll be right and Dante, Bowen, and Keeley will all sign with ND or we will find 3-4 star replacements once we are done chasing. In that event, I will concede you were correct. I sincerely hope you are. If we even land one of them I say it was worth it. If we are able to replace all of them with quality players late in the game, I will also say it was worth a shot. I'm skeptical either will happen.

One counter point is it is probably too early to go searching for plan B’s and seperately so far when they have identified plan B’s and/or alternatives they have moved pretty quick and we find out they have had some level of communication for a good long while.

 

[lcaps20]

It's a detriment to recruiting to go all in and chase wavering "commits". That's my opinion. Is MF a better recruiter than BK? Yes, I do think so. But remember, BK hit 284 in 2013, so as it stands, BK is the better recruiter. BK won on the field. That helped him recruit in 2013 and it helped him last year. As much as I think MF helped, that was BK's class and a lot of the momentum ND is reeling right now is due to BK's on the field success. All in has not worked yet. Maybe it will, but when a kid like Bowen or Dante start wavering, I am immediately looking for someone else. Just my opinion. Perhaps you'll be right and Dante, Bowen, and Keeley will all sign with ND or we will find 3-4 star replacements once we are done chasing. In that event, I will concede you were correct. I sincerely hope you are. If we even land one of them I say it was worth it. If we are able to replace all of them with quality players late in the game, I will also say it was worth a shot. I'm skeptical either will happen.

I'd say risky, not a detriment, but that's just my opinion. BK was a fine recruiter when he felt like it, problem was he seldom did and even less so after he decided to shop down a different aisle. Agree BK gets some of the credit for ND being in a healthy spot but there is no way ND pulls in last years class without Freeman.

Lastly I never said Keeley, Bowen, or Dante (who is 100% not coming) will be in this class. Just that they are worth the chase and not dropping at the first sign of adversity. I've seen you post a lot about where ND should be at as a football program, winning recruitments like these is how they get there

 

[Dale]

What does not going all in on Bowen and Keeley look like? I don’t understand the strategy suggested. Moore is completely different as a QB. An example with actual prospects or what another school is doing it’d be interested in.

 

[du Lac]

One counter point is it is probably too early to go searching for plan B’s and seperately so far when they have identified plan B’s and/or alternatives they have moved pretty quick and we find out they have had some level of communication for a good long while.

Good points. I'm personally much more excited for '24. If MF has on the field success this year, he is going to blow up as the cool and hot coach. We already have a 5 star QB that is one of the best kid recruiters I can ever remember ND having. There's something in my gut about that '24 class that I feel will be different. If we keep Keeley and Bowen, all the more impressive. The single most important thing for MF to do that trumps Keeley and Bowen and Dante and any other '23 recruit for that matter, is a strong 2022 season as HC.

 

[INLaw]

Good points. I'm personally much more excited for '24. If MF has on the field success this year, he is going to blow up as the cool and hot coach. We already have a 5 star QB that is one of the best kid recruiters I can ever remember ND having. There's something in my gut about that '24 class that I feel will be different. If we keep Keeley and Bowen, all the more impressive. The single most important thing for MF to do that trumps Keeley and Bowen and Dante and any other '23 recruit for that matter, is a strong 2022 season as HC.

Beat ohio state and its to the moon. Don’t and it’s kind of business as usual until you get another chance if Clemson is undefeated.

 

[du Lac]

What does not going all in on Bowen and Keeley look like? I don’t understand the strategy suggested. Moore is completely different as a QB. An example with actual prospects or what another school is doing it’d be interested in.

We are currently only chasing 1 safety that I am aware of and we need 2 if I'm not mistaken. How many DE's are we after that we had developed a relationship with early on?

 

[INLaw]

Minich is a safety. So I am guessing you mean three. We had two committed and once eliminated for downs were on a third super fast who may commit in the next 10 days. If we lose Bowen I will piss and moan as bad as any Koon or pseudo Koon but they have so far shown that maybe they do have as good as your gonna get plan B’s already kind of percolating that we just do not know about

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Long posts, Whisky posts,…I tend to skip them all

I've gotta say, your insistence on spelling my handle the Scottish way:

 

[Dale]

We are currently only chasing 1 safety that I am aware of and we need 2 if I'm not mistaken. How many DE's are we after that we had developed a relationship with early on?

I still don’t get the strategy as a full thought out top down strategy. Who we knowingly are recruiting today (see Dylan Edwards) doesn’t really matter. How are you suggesting this recruiting strategy should have been implemented and for how many months, what prospects, since when etc that is not “all in”

 

[du Lac]

Beat ohio state and its to the moon. Don’t and it’s kind of business as usual until you get another chance if Clemson is undefeated.

If we beat Ohio State, '24 class is going to balloon in a hurry and we might even get some late big flips in '23. Any kids that are hesitant are simply waiting for Freeman to show his chops as HC. If he does that, we are taking over a lot of Ohio State's recruiting prowess in the midwest.

 

[arahop]

ND needs to pony up and get Keeley his cash. If CJ Carr really is getting a mill from ND, which has been rumored, Keeley should get at least as much. He’s key to moving the needle. The chances Keely won’t be good are less than Carr and the revenue he will generate is so much more than a million it’s ridiculous. His recruitment was more important than Dante.

Absolutely. I understand our fans apprehension about NIL but I could do a projected cost analysis on apparel alone to warrant the pay for these high end recruits alone. I went to Holy Cross and transferred after that ship sailed. Couldn't get in at Notre Dame. I'm not salty about it. I spent too much time chasing tail in high school and not giving my school work 100%. " Not a day goes by that I don't regret it." I Love ND with all of my heart. Guys like Rice, Zorich, etc didn't devalue an ND Degree whatsoever.

Point is if we ever want to see those Gold helmets run out in the sun...As returning National Champions, it's going to take people to get on board with something that is absolutely within the rules now. It's also going to take a shift in most of the alumni and fans way of thinking. People shouldn't have to get on a soap box and explain why ND needs to adapt and evolve. Not saying we have to sell our souls, but just ask yourself what you would do if your son was the "3 ranked player in the country at the most important defensive position? They are worth every penny they get from the NIL and arguably more. The Hardest thing to do is get a person to change they way they think and adapt to what's going on. It's time for ND to compete and that doesn't compromise ANY mission that the University stands for IMO. Once again ask yourselves what would the University be without the the tradition and history of the football program? I don't love the NIL but I believe in responsible capitalism and a Notre Dame Football program that is King of the Mountain stands on a mountain of a lot more cash and monetary value than the alternative, which in return can be allocated to a lot more worthwhile human endeavors while supporting the Football program.

 

[du Lac]

I still don’t get the strategy as a full thought out top down strategy. Who we knowingly are recruiting today (see Dylan Edwards) doesn’t really matter. How are you suggesting this recruiting strategy should have been implemented and for how many months, what prospects, since when etc that is not “all in”

To start with, I'd tell kids like Dante that until he's verbally committed, we are actively recruiting other QB's, perhaps just not with a committable offer, but the relationship never ends. Even after that, I say, we are keeping friendly tabs on kids not committed and even actively recruiting them. Hell, Bama took 2 QB's and ND has also done that before. No reason you literally stop talking to kids bc you are infatuated with a silent verbal that likes to visit other programs and has a father that likes NIL. Apparently, ND hasn't communicated with Avery Johnson since like April 2021. It's a bit hard to criticize the job MF is doing. I will complain if we lose the two kids we're all concerned about and do not have any backup plan. Does the bitching mean I think MF sucks as a recruiter? No! Either way, if we land JA, Minich, Edwards, Love, Hanafin, it will end up a nice class closely ranked to the 275 we had last year. Not a lot to bitch about. But there's a long ways to go to match BK's class last year if we lose those two. Just based on the numbers.

 

[Dale]

To start with, I'd tell kids like Dante that until he's verbally committed, we are actively recruiting other QB's, perhaps just not with a committable offer, but the relationship never ends. Even after that, I say, we are keeping friendly tabs on kids not committed and even actively recruiting them. Hell, Bama took 2 QB's and ND has also done that before. No reason you literally stop talking to kids bc you are infatuated with a silent verbal that likes to visit other programs and has a father that likes NIL. Apparently, ND hasn't communicated with Avery Johnson since like April 2021. It's a bit hard to criticize the job MF is doing. I will complain if we lose the two kids we're all concerned about and do not have any backup plan. Does the bitching mean I think MF sucks as a recruiter? No! Either way, if we land JA, Minich, Edwards, Love, Hanafin, it will end up a nice class closely ranked to the 275 we had last year. Not a lot to bitch about. But there's a long ways to go to match BK's class last year if we lose those two. Just based on the numbers.

Okay so this was all about Dante and nothing about how not being “all in” looks at recruiting every other position.

 

[du Lac]

Okay so this was all about Dante and nothing about how not being “all in” looks at recruiting every other position.

I'd apply a similar principle. What 4-5 star DE's have they been flying out to see or texting on a weekly basis since Keeley's commitment? Hell, if you have a 5 star commit, perhaps the way to go is to recruit multiple backup plans hard throughout the process and if they want on board, you take them. If none are interested, that's a different issue, but still an issue. Maybe they have these kids tin their back pockets. IDK, but recent offers just now going out tells me that's not the case whether it's QB, DE, etc.

 

[Kingbish01]

Absolutely. I understand our fans apprehension about NIL but I could do a projected cost analysis on apparel alone to warrant the pay for these high end recruits alone. I went to Holy Cross and transferred after that ship sailed. Couldn't get in at Notre Dame. I'm not salty about it. I spent too much time chasing tail in high school and not giving my school work 100%. " Not a day goes by that I don't regret it." I Love ND with all of my heart. Guys like Rice, Zorich, etc didn't devalue an ND Degree whatsoever.

Point is if we ever want to see those Gold helmets run out in the sun...As returning National Champions, it's going to take people to get on board with something that is absolutely within the rules now. It's also going to take a shift in most of the alumni and fans way of thinking. People shouldn't have to get on a soap box and explain why ND needs to adapt and evolve. Not saying we have to sell our souls, but just ask yourself what you would do if your son was the "3 ranked player in the country at the most important defensive position? They are worth every penny they get from the NIL and arguably more. The Hardest thing to do is get a person to change they way they think and adapt to what's going on. It's time for ND to compete and that doesn't compromise ANY mission that the University stands for IMO. Once again ask yourselves what would the University be without the the tradition and history of the football program? I don't love the NIL but I believe in responsible capitalism and a Notre Dame Football program that is King of the Mountain stands on a mountain of a lot more cash and monetary value than the alternative, which in return can be allocated to a lot more worthwhile human endeavors while supporting the Football program

Kelly probably knew the "Peeps" weren't getting on board, so he hit them with a peace sign..

 

[WilliamWallace]

S

We could compete with this, quite easily. The problem is: (1) that our admin has interpreted the NIL "rules," such as they are, to prohibit what 'Bama and aTm are doing; and (2) that we are continuing to show a level of deference to the NCAA that it demonstrably does not deserve. I'm sure they'll figure it out sooner than later, but we may lose a few big time recruits until then.

So serious question, How can the current state of NIL (which is seemingly out of control, and obviously not fair, nor are those with biggest pockets worried about fairness) in collegiate sports be corrected/controlled. I guess that’s more so where my interest lies.

It’s clear that the NCAA cannot manage it. We don’t want or need the government, governing it. So possibly a modified version of the NCAA? Maybe even a revamped NCAA (excluding anyone with current involvement) that includes all conferences/teams, requiring all teams to abide by laws/restrictions who want to be included. Sure teams can opt out, ie the big dogs, but where does that leave them? Possibly with 8 teams give or take that are not willing to give in?

There are teams currently in the SEC and obviously amongst the rest of college football that cannot or possibly are not willing to try and keep pace with the big money funded schools.

So you lay down the law. You’re in or you’re out. I’m willing to bet it will be a much more enjoyable situation for all teams, and those that think they are above all else will have no choice but get on board, or you show them the door.

I guess the remaining nay-sayers could form their own league, but would a handful of teams draw more attention? I doubt it.

 

[INLaw]

S

So serious question, How can the current state of NIL (which is seemingly out of control, and obviously not fair, nor are those with biggest pockets worried about fairness) in collegiate sports be corrected/controlled. I guess that’s more so where my interest lies.

It’s clear that the NCAA cannot manage it. We don’t want or need the government, governing it. So possibly a modified version of the NCAA? Maybe even a revamped NCAA (excluding anyone with current involvement) that includes all conferences/teams, requiring all teams to abide by laws/restrictions who want to be included. Sure teams can opt out, ie the big dogs, but where does that leave them? Possibly with 8 teams give or take that are not willing to give in?

There are teams currently in the SEC and obviously amongst the rest of college football that cannot or possibly are not willing to try and keep pace with the big money funded schools.

So you lay down the law. You’re in or you’re out. I’m willing to bet it will be a much more enjoyable situation for all teams, and those that think they are above all else will have no choice but get on board, or you show them the door.

I guess the remaining nay-sayers could form their own league, but would a handful of teams draw more attention? I doubt it.

How is this not just the ncaa again

 

[pumpdog20]

Holy crap did something actually happen here? These last few pages read like Keon is gone already. This just nervous speculation or did one on the beat give an update?

 

[NDpendent]

Beat ohio state and its to the moon. Don’t and it’s kind of business as usual until you get another chance if Clemson is undefeated.

Beat OSU and 24 class will be #1. And maybe flip some good 23 kids too.

 

[arndtjc]

Apparently, ND hasn't communicated with Avery Johnson since like April 2021.

I don’t know where you heard this from but I saw AJ at the big recruit mixer outside the stadium for the USC game last fall

 

[WildMan1]

I mean.. I don’t think we’re ever getting 5+ 5 stars in a recruiting class.. but I also don’t think we need that to win a natty.

Most importantly we need to get THE QB.. something Kelly never accomplished. I don’t mean the Kizers of the world.. the over accomplished can fill in at any other role.

We need a Trevor Lawrence, Johnny Manziel, Bryce Young..

The 2022/23 classes are a phenomenal start to upgrading the roster to a level where we can compete with the top 3..

But we’re still missing THE quarterback.. Carr in 24 is great.. but otherwise we need to rely on Buchner playing at an elite level for the next 2/3 years and if he can’t we have no shot at a NC

 

[WilliamWallace]

T

How is this not just the ncaa again

Did you read my post or just see NCAA?

The point is that it has to be governed by a set of rules to make all things equal. Obviously the NCAA is not good at much. My suggestion was to either create a new system which governs college football (specifically in regards to the landscape now involving NIL) or wipe the current NCAA clean and start over. Whether it’s called the NCAA or something else. It’s about equality which is clearly not where we stand at this moment.

Inevitably, the purpose is to get all teams on an even playing field in the current world with NIL. They get what they get, when they get it. Currently the ncaa has taken a back seat and even though there are supposed rules with NIL, there really are no rules. This has turned college football into the Wild West. And the teams with the biggest pockets are finding ways to exclude themselves from the rest.

I truly believe ND can lead the charge in harnessing this out of control situation by their desire to stay morally focused.

 

[9_To_Your_Temple_Presto]

Inevitably, the purpose is to get all teams on an even playing field in the current world with NIL.

The whole premise is that players can be compensated for their name, image, and likeness in a free open market

Free open markets by nature are not "even playing fields"

Some of the schools are inevitably going to have more money to throw around than others--so that will never be "even"

And attempting to place caps on how much a player can get compensated or team can payout violates the very spirit of the rule

If you're speaking "even" for applying the rules--well the NCAA is letting pretty much any school do anything they want, so no issues there

The NCAA right now is a feckless organization on its deathbed and is only in existence while the B10 and SEC decide how they want to structure things with a new organization

The colleges and universities are going to end up costing themselves $$billions by caving to NIL. One of the most costly business decisions ever

Are Iowa or Washington fans going to give two shits about football once they figure out their teams in no way, shape, or form have the funds to compete? Under the old system their fans at least had the illusion. Now its completely pointless for them

There's going to be entire athletic departments going under because the football revenue is going to dry up

And when only about 12 teams fanbases believe their school actually has a shot to win anything--the TV contracts are going to shrink massively because viewership is going to drop like a rock

ND will posture for a few years but eventually go all in on NIL too. Probably around the time they join a conference. And so will be fine

But there is going to be massive fallout from this for all the have-nots

 

[INLaw]

Yep and read it again. It’s like saying defund the police then police are gone then their is crime so you deputize people with the power to make arrests, give them tools to do their jobs and invent a name that isn’t police to just have police again. It’s like the intellectual argument that socialism does work but it’s just never been done right. The problem with the NCAA was that it’s rules were sometimes vague and capricious and it’s enforcement was slap dash and biased. Does that not sound like every large organization/bureaucracy that ever existed. So eliminate it and replace it with NCAAA or whatever you call it and you will have the same problems

 

[INLaw]

The whole premise is that players can be compensated for their name, image, and likeness in a free open market

Free open markets by nature are not "even playing fields"

Some of the schools are inevitably going to have more money to throw around than others--so that will never be "even"

And attempting to place caps on how much a player can get compensated or team can payout violates the very spirit of the rule

If you're speaking "even" for applying the rules--well the NCAA is letting pretty much any school do anything they want, so no issues there

The NCAA right now is a feckless organization on its deathbed and is only in existence while the B10 and SEC decide how they want to structure things with a new organization

The colleges and universities are going to end up costing themselves $$billions by caving to NIL. One of the most costly business decisions ever

Are Iowa or Washington fans going to give two shits about football once they figure out their teams in no way, shape, or form have the funds to compete? Under the old system their fans at least had the illusion. Now its completely pointless for them

There's going to be entire athletic departments going under because the football revenue is going to dry up

And when only about 12 teams fanbases believe their school actually has a shot to win anything--the TV contracts are going to shrink massively because viewership is going to drop like a rock

ND will posture for a few years but eventually go all in on NIL too. Probably around the time they join a conference. And so will be fine

But there is going to be massive fallout from this for all the have-nots

Its title 9 all over again

 

[arahop]

The point is that it has to be governed by a set of rules to make all things equal. Obviously the NCAA is not good at much. My suggestion was to either create a new system which governs college football (specifically in regards to the landscape now involving NIL) or wipe the current NCAA clean and start over. Whether it’s called the NCAA or something else. It’s about equality which is clearly not where we stand at this moment.

Inevitably, the purpose is to get all teams on an even playing field in the current world with NIL. They get what they get, when they get it. Currently the ncaa has taken a back seat and even though there are supposed rules with NIL, there really are no rules. This has turned college football into the Wild West. And the teams with the biggest pockets are finding ways to exclude themselves from the rest.

I truly believe ND can lead the charge in harnessing this out of control situation by their desire to stay morally focused.

I guess I don't think there has been equality in college athletics in long time dating back to even the UCLA John Wooden days. Lots of players have been paid under the table since at least the 1980s. I would argue that the the NIL makes the playing field more even. This list is wild to see but some of these kids are worth every dollar, others to be determined.

On3 NIL 100: Ranking the Top 25 most valuable high school and college athletes

The first On3 NIL 100 dropped on Jan. 7, featuring plenty of big-name high school and college talent in the Top 25 of the rankings.

www.on3.com

Side note. Look at Bama trying to pay their way to Basketball relevance. Sorry T Town but Bama bag holders have probably paid more money the last 15 years than any other team if I had to guess.

It's all fair game now. We can bitch about it or get in the system of supply and demand.
That's that.

 

[du Lac]

Its title 9 all over again

Title 9 is dead. A man has already taken women's swimming away. That's just the start.

 

[choo choo]

You post like every commit they reach out to is supposed to commit on the spot. Saban is the only one that comes remotely close to that.

Freeman will outlive Satan

 

[ulukinatme]

Freeman will outlive Satan

You say that, but this job hasn't been kind to the successful.