2023 - State of the Recruiting Class

[Reaper97]

I don’t think you’ll see Paige end ranked where he’s at now and Absher is already rising. Heck even 247 loves Otting now.

If all three of them end up ranked, and Pendleton keeps his 4th star, (along with Jagusah staying up), then that would push ND over the 300 mark with the other hopeful commits.

 

[Reaper97]

I get your argument. But I also feel like OL is the toughest position for many of these big websites to evaluate. You have to have some balance of the rankings and trusting the OL coach.

I trust HH evaluations over recruiting websites.
I was just saying from a pure “class rankings” perspective.
There were ND classes under BK that finished 8-9 that I thought were better classes than some of the schools above them in the top 5. Like the year USC had like 8 LBs (and a Safety who was going to play LB at USC) & 5-6 WRs. So half their class was two positions, but their class was top 5 in points. Garbage.

Just from a pure points standpoint, have a position you are considered the elite program at that also allows for 4 commits every year, is one ND can load up points on.

 

[House16]

I trust HH evaluations over recruiting websites.
I was just saying from a pure “class rankings” perspective.
There were ND classes under BK that finished 8-9 that I thought were better classes than some of the schools above them in the top 5. Like the year USC had like 8 LBs (and a Safety who was going to play LB at USC) & 5-6 WRs. So half their class was two positions, but their class was top 5 in points. Garbage.

Just from a pure points standpoint, have a position you are considered the elite program at that also allows for 4 commits every year, is one ND can load up points on.

Time for the hater (me) to log on: I trust HH's evaluations too. The problem is that we have no idea if these 5 were the top of HH's eval board. I'll bet you anything if you offer him a trade of Paige-Pendleton-Otting for Freeling-Montgomery-Sieverald, he accepts in about one second. We missed on those guys, we didn't pass on them because of an evaluation. I'm really against the "trust the coaches evals" argument because usually it ignores the fact that the coach missed on the guy he actually wanted most.

(Also, that's not specifically hating on HH; I believe some of the aforementioned misses were already pretty close to committing when he came on board?)

 

[Dale]

Time for the hater (me) to log on: I trust HH's evaluations too. The problem is that we have no idea if these 5 were the top of HH's eval board. I'll bet you anything if you offer him a trade of Paige-Pendleton-Otting for Freeling-Montgomery-Sieverald, he accepts in about one second. We missed on those guys, we didn't pass on them because of an evaluation. I'm really against the "trust the coaches evals" argument because usually it ignores the fact that the coach missed on the guy he actually wanted most.

(Also, that's not specifically hating on HH; I believe some of the aforementioned misses were already pretty close to committing when he came on board?)

Elston got say over out the door Quinn and was recruiting Montgomery as a DL.

Sieverald they definitely preferred over Pendleton and just couldn’t get him to shake the Buckeyes.

None were close to committing when HH came on board.

 

[Reaper97]

Time for the hater (me) to log on: I trust HH's evaluations too. The problem is that we have no idea if these 5 were the top of HH's eval board. I'll bet you anything if you offer him a trade of Paige-Pendleton-Otting for Freeling-Montgomery-Sieverald, he accepts in about one second. We missed on those guys, we didn't pass on them because of an evaluation. I'm really against the "trust the coaches evals" argument because usually it ignores the fact that the coach missed on the guy he actually wanted most.

(Also, that's not specifically hating on HH; I believe some of the aforementioned misses were already pretty close to committing when he came on board?)

I’m one of the few who thinks HH is a little overrated.
He was not liked at Tennessee before ND and fired by Chicago after ND.
ND recruits & produces great OL by reputation. Even Quinn was recruiting studs. HH will get credit for Alt & Fisher when they are 1st Round draft picks, but we have seen both were already studs before HH.
The Joe Moore winning OL in 2017 actually underperformed against UGA & Miami, when ND needed them most.

I’m glad HH came back to coach, but he isn’t the elite recruiter or God-like coach some make him out to be.

 

[House16]

Elston got say over out the door Quinn and was recruiting Montgomery as a DL.

Sieverald they definitely preferred over Pendleton and just couldn’t get him to shake the Buckeyes.

None were close to committing when HH came on board.

Just to clarify: by "close to committing" I meant "close to committing elsewhere". As in, I'm not blaming HH for it.

 

[Dale]

Just to clarify: by "close to committing" I meant "close to committing elsewhere". As in, I'm not blaming HH for it.

Gotcha then yeah it’d say Montgomery was too little to late.

 

[stpeteirish]

I’m one of the few who thinks HH is a little overrated.
He was not liked at Tennessee before ND and fired by Chicago after ND.
ND recruits & produces great OL by reputation. Even Quinn was recruiting studs. HH will get credit for Alt & Fisher when they are 1st Round draft picks, but we have seen both were already studs before HH.
The Joe Moore winning OL in 2017 actually underperformed against UGA & Miami, when ND needed them most.

I’m glad HH came back to coach, but he isn’t the elite recruiter or God-like coach some make him out to be.

Think this is pretty close to my take as well. HH also seems to have a pretty short shelf life in his gigs. So enjoy it while it lasts, it may not get any better than it is now. He could have his best year in 2022, then the boat starts to take on water.

 

[WilliamWallace]

I’m one of the few who thinks HH is a little overrated.
He was not liked at Tennessee before ND and fired by Chicago after ND.
ND recruits & produces great OL by reputation. Even Quinn was recruiting studs. HH will get credit for Alt & Fisher when they are 1st Round draft picks, but we have seen both were already studs before HH.
The Joe Moore winning OL in 2017 actually underperformed against UGA & Miami, when ND needed them most.

I’m glad HH came back to coach, but he isn’t the elite recruiter or God-like coach some make him out to be.

I too haven’t felt HH did enough for the OL collectively in his past stint. But, there’s a big difference between then and now. I think he’ll be given some time to produce (like fall camp!!!). But if he doesn’t, then I think this will be short lived.

There’s no way you walk into our OL room and cannot make it productive. I believe it was a big pickup when he came back, but now he’s on the clock.

 

[du Lac]

I think he’s a far better technician than Mr. unemployed Jeff Quinn.

 

[INLaw]

I get your argument. But I also feel like OL is the toughest position for many of these big websites to evaluate. You have to have some balance of the rankings and trusting the OL coach.

The Josh Myers problem

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

we

I’m one of the few who thinks HH is a little overrated.
He was not liked at Tennessee before ND and fired by Chicago after ND.
ND recruits & produces great OL by reputation. Even Quinn was recruiting studs. HH will get credit for Alt & Fisher when they are 1st Round draft picks, but we have seen both were already studs before HH.
The Joe Moore winning OL in 2017 actually underperformed against UGA & Miami, when ND needed them most.

I’m glad HH came back to coach, but he isn’t the elite recruiter or God-like coach some make him out to be.

hard to say definitively on the 2017 line, only because we didnt have a competent QB which changes everything. Overall i dont disagree with your sentiment though.

 

[CanadalovesND]

I too haven’t felt HH did enough for the OL collectively in his past stint. But, there’s a big difference between then and now. I think he’ll be given some time to produce (like fall camp!!!). But if he doesn’t, then I think this will be short lived.

There’s no way you walk into our OL room and cannot make it productive. I believe it was a big pickup when he came back, but now he’s on the clock.

Zack Martin quoted, calling Harry: “The best in the business” - Spring game 2014, NBC with Alex Flanagan on the mic

 

[Crazy Balki]

The key is when ND offered and turned the heat up for Otting and Paige.

They were pretty much directly after Harry got to see them in action at camp. That's when they were like, we need to take these guys.

I think ND got two absolute studs in Paige and Absher. Both have massive frames and have quick feet, while also being physically developed, going into their senior seasons already at or over 300.

I like the fact that them and Jagusah have the positional versatility to move around and play damn near every position on the line. That's something we've sorely lacked up until recently.

 

[BauerOutage]

I think he’s a far better technician than Mr. unemployed Jeff Quinn.

He definitely is. But ole Mr. Unemployed got our best two tackle prospects in the last 20 years. As much as people hate him, Quinn could recruit

 

[BauerOutage]

Honest question. If Quinn signed the same 5 how confident would everyone feel? Fisher, Alt, and Spindler are better than the top 3 in this class.

 

[NDMIA]

If you look at the list, ND got Proctor on campus and recruited him hard for a little while but I don’t think they were winning that. Okunlola also didn’t seem likely after seeing his official visits (NIL/football factory). Bisontis is a curious one cause he was on campus and seemed to like Quinn a great deal and not sure if Hiestand didn’t like him but when he took over things cooled significantly. Siereveld was just an L unfortunately and I don’t think Quinn would’ve won that one either. Lastly, Freeling I’m not sure. Seems like Clemson is out now too so wonder if ND could’ve gotten him but not sure. I think Pendleton and Otting are way way better than Mabry and Dirksen but I hope Freeman demands he goes after the best of the best and doesn’t settle to finish his OL class quickly! Having said that I think Hiestand simply liked those two guys a lot. He’s probably got a 3 man class in 2024 and we’ll see if he fills it with “projects” or 4 star studs. Hopefully he gets Jones and Moore as starts to that class who are firmly 4 star talents visiting this weekend!!

 

[arrowryan]

Honest question. If Quinn signed the same 5 how confident would everyone feel? Fisher, Alt, and Spindler are better than the top 3 in this class.

Recruiting was never a problem for Quinn. It was development. Much more confident in HH developing these guys than Quinn.

 

[WilliamWallace]

Zack Martin quoted, calling Harry: “The best in the business” - Spring game 2014, NBC with Alex Flanagan on the mic

I have mixed feelings on HH. It’s hard to argue against the endorsement of the players, and who he developed. I guess I always felt with the offensive lines we’ve had that our running game would’ve been lethal. But then again, it may have had very little to do with HH and more to do with the BK game plan? 🤷‍♂️

 

[BabyIrish]

I have mixed feelings on HH. It’s hard to argue against the endorsement of the players, and who he developed. I guess I always felt with the offensive lines we’ve had that our running game would’ve been lethal. But then again, it may have had very little to do with HH and more to do with the BK game plan? 🤷‍♂️

I thought our run game was lethal under HH I mean Josh Adams was being considered for the heisman until he got injured. I always thought the criticism with Harry was his development of pass protection.

 

[NDdomer2]

I thought our run game was lethal under HH I mean Josh Adams was being considered for the heisman until he got injured. I always thought the criticism with Harry was his development of pass protection.

we had outstanding pass pro statistics in almost all years Harry was here. Where things usually didnt look great for him were things like short to go's stuff rates, etc.

We could open nice big holes for chunks on passing and combo downs but when it was hey we need to get a yard and everyone knows it. Woof.

Harry's other supposed issues were A) only developing 5/6 guys and not the entire roster and B) not liking to recruit.

Some will say he typically got his guy and maybe thats true but as someone pointed out above we did miss on a few of his "guys". He rebounded nicely this year thats for sure. But will that hustle maintain through his 2nd tenure.

Go look at the 2018 class. It wasnt pretty. Missed on his initial wave, settled for some questionable people, and missed some big evals. He was also on his way out so....

I think whoever said 2022 might be the height of this stint, could be on to something.

 

[BabyIrish]

we had outstanding pass pro statistics in almost all years Harry was here. Where things usually didnt look great for him were things like short to go's stuff rates, etc.

We could open nice big holes for chunks on passing and combo downs but when it was hey we need to get a yard and everyone knows it. Woof.

Harry's other supposed issues were A) only developing 5/6 guys and not the entire roster and B) not liking to recruit.

Some will say he typically got his guy and maybe thats true but as someone pointed out above we did miss on a few of his "guys". He rebounded nicely this year thats for sure. But will that hustle maintain through his 2nd tenure.

Go look at the 2018 class. It wasnt pretty. Missed on his initial wave, settled for some questionable people, and missed some big evals. He was also on his way out so....

I think whoever said 2022 might be the height of this stint, could be on to something.

I thought his recruiting was pretty good up to his last year. But one bad year of recruiting shouldn’t make us sound the alarm. And it’s clear that Freeman is putting a heavy emphasis on recruiting from his staff. So I’m skeptical of anyone who would say he won’t recruit well during this second stint.

 

[NDdomer2]

I thought his recruiting was pretty good up to his last year. But one bad year of recruiting shouldn’t make us sound the alarm. And it’s clear that Freeman is putting a heavy emphasis on recruiting from his staff. So I’m skeptical of anyone who would say he won’t recruit well during this second stint.

I dont think anyones saying that (at least that ive seen). but the thing well never know is - out of the guys he landed this cycle, would they have not ended up here without him. Maybe someone with access to the sites/interviews could say but were any of these guys just like If it wasnt for Harry and his reputation, I dont think I would have considered ND.

Or was most of it ND OL, Coach Freeman, etc all included in the giant combo of reasons.

 

[INLaw]

I thought his recruiting was pretty good up to his last year. But one bad year of recruiting shouldn’t make us sound the alarm. And it’s clear that Freeman is putting a heavy emphasis on recruiting from his staff. So I’m skeptical of anyone who would say he won’t recruit well during this second stint.

And i do clearly remember that bad OL cycle, Mile Frank saying on at least two seperate power hours that it was a down year across the board for OL prospects

 

[Dale]

I dont think anyones saying that (at least that ive seen). but the thing well never know is - out of the guys he landed this cycle, would they have not ended up here without him. Maybe someone with access to the sites/interviews could say but were any of these guys just like If it wasnt for Harry and his reputation, I dont think I would have considered ND.

Or was most of it ND OL, Coach Freeman, etc all included in the giant combo of reasons.

It’d say they’ve all had pretty glowing reviews of Hiestand. Absher said this as one relevant quote:

“"Nothing against coach Quinn or coach Kelly, they're both great coaches, great guys in their own right, but something just clicked when coach Hiestand got the job and he called me for the first time, and coach Freeman as well.”

 

[Irish du Nord]

He definitely is. But ole Mr. Unemployed got our best two tackle prospects in the last 20 years. As much as people hate him, Quinn could recruit

I’m with you on Quinn as a recruiter but this is quite the statement. Both better than Ronnie Stanley? McGlinchey? Zack Martin?

 

[Mavericknyc1980]

The players that HH has developed is all the evidence I need. The rankings might be a little bit lower then what we would like but I know for a fact that the OLINE play and the development of those players will be top notch.

 

[NDdomer2]

It’d say they’ve all had pretty glowing reviews of Hiestand. Absher said this as one relevant quote:

“"Nothing against coach Quinn or coach Kelly, they're both great coaches, great guys in their own right, but something just clicked when coach Hiestand got the job and he called me for the first time, and coach Freeman as well.”

Absher was honestly one that stuck out in my mind a bit more as a possibility. He does give some credit to Freeman though so still difficult to credit Heistand 100%.

I am not trying to down him here, I just think tot he OP that got this convo started, he isnt the holy grail he is perceived to be at times.

 

[Dale]

still difficult to credit Heistand 100%.

Sure I don’t think anyone should be crediting any position coach 100% for a kid

 

[notredomer23]

ESPN updated their rankings and ND has 14 commits (15 if you count Ausberry) in the top 300, most of any team.

The 247 rankings drops are so egregious that they are making ESPN look great.

Ausberry is 38
Greathouse is 87
Vernon is 108
D. Bowen 89
Braylon James is 54

This seems appropriate for all 5, maybe Ausberry and James being slightly higher than he should be.