COVID-19

[GowerND11]

Just a side,… I’m sick and frustrated so excuse me if I’m unclear:

Whole family got sick,… I’m still sick,… got tested per both my wife and my employer’s directives… had to shelter until results came back. So, all results in the family come back yesterday as negative for COVID and now the attitudes of our employers are both, ‘okay see you in office today…’ but I’m still sick with whatever this is,.., it’s like no one accepts anything but Covid exists anymore.

I was sick with the flu in December. Knew I had the flu because one of our basketball players had it and came back a little too early. Wife was convinced I had COVID. Got tested for both, came back flu. Had to jump through a lot of hoops when I did want to get back to work, despite having test results.

 

[Black Irish]

Just a side,… I’m sick and frustrated so excuse me if I’m unclear:

Whole family got sick,… I’m still sick,… got tested per both my wife and my employer’s directives… had to shelter until results came back. So, all results in the family come back yesterday as negative for COVID and now the attitudes of our employers are both, ‘okay see you in office today…’ but I’m still sick with whatever this is,.., it’s like no one accepts anything but Covid exists anymore.

I'm seeing some of this, too, especially in sectors hard-hit by labor shortages.

"I'm sick."
"Is it Covid?"
"Yes."
"Lock yourself in a bunker for a week."

"I'm sick."
"Is it Covid?"
"No, I tested negative."
"See you tomorrow."

To be fair, it's on both sides of the fence. Employers who are tired from being chronically short-staffed. And employees tired of missing work and pay every time they get a sore throat. But sick is still sick, Covid or no, and still a risk particularly in an environment with a high volume of contact with other people.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Borg gonna Borg. Resistance is futile. God forbid healthy young men don't cower in the face of the sniffles.

It so easy to be selfish and make fun of others who may not have fared as well as you did. So on point. With the use of masks and all the recommendations, my family and I made it all the way through this without getting COVID.... until a month ago. Then my whole family got it. Luckily we were vaxed and it wasnt as bad (as expected becasue of the vax) as my mother in law who was on a respirator and unconscious for 5 weeks. But cool you dont like masks.. As I said before communciable and virulent diseases dont give a shit about your personal freedoms. THe virus must be a libtard.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Sorry about your MIL, Cack. I hope she's doing ok and experiences a full recovery.

That doesn’t change the data that has accumulated over the last two years (not to mention that which was already known, but spun into propaganda).

Good thread:

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/vprasadmdmph/status/1485447871981768705?s=21[/TWEET]

 

[PerthDomer]

Sorry about your MIL, Cack. I hope she's doing ok and experiences a full recovery.

That doesn’t change the data that has accumulated over the last two years (not to mention that which was already known, but spun into propaganda).

Good thread:

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/vprasadmdmph/status/1485447871981768705?s=21[/TWEET]

Linking Vinay will lose you credibility with anyone in public health, Infectious Disease, or critical care. He starts with some reasonable points. Then builds straw men, then dabbles in outright falsehoods. But it's guaranteed to make a lit of money and get him on the Rogan Show/the alternative medicine book circuit.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Perhaps (and thanks for the heads up so I can continue to read his posts in a skeptical frame of mind...as I try to always do with anyone, but I digress). I will, however, say that I find it exhausting to learn which doctor I'm supposed to trust and which one I am not. Not everyone in medicine is aligning in unison on every topic as it pertains to Covid and it seems pretty common that the ones who are not sticking to the mainstream talking points are being called out for "spreading misinformation."

I think he makes great points at times often enough to at least read/hear him out. Doesn't mean I believe him to be the be all, end all on Covid discourse.


I've butted heads with RDU a lot in this thread, but I agree with him regarding the idea that Covid policy could play a factor in deciding which college his kids choose to attend. Half of this country is choosing to move on and live with Covid and the other half is still wiping down groceries. I say that with snark, but it's not entirely untrue.

 

[Free Manera]

I just wish my kids' daycare would ease up on mandatory 10 day absences for exposures. Not positive tests, not symptoms, but exposures. People have jobs out here man.

 

[Valpodoc85]

There is a lot of discussion in the medical community regarding a path forward. The discussion is not about safety of vaccines or their utility, ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine. All that is a bit mute except on the fringes. The big questions seem to be, are what we're doing working, should there be mandates, where is this going. The politicians and medical policy establishment seem be be more reactionary than visionary

 

[ulukinatme]

I just wish my kids' daycare would ease up on mandatory 10 day absences for exposures. Not positive tests, not symptoms, but exposures. People have jobs out here man.

They need to allow for a test after 5 days, and if the test comes back negative they can rejoin. That's what they were doing for our kid's sports, seemed to work pretty well.

 

[TorontoGold]

They need to allow for a test after 5 days, and if the test comes back negative they can rejoin. That's what they were doing for our kid's sports, seemed to work pretty well.

That makes so much sense. I know people that have gone 14+ days without results coming back lmao

 

[ulukinatme]

That makes so much sense. I know people that have gone 14+ days without results coming back lmao

Oof. We were just using standard rapid tests when it came to sports and it was kind of on an honor system because nobody checked any paperwork. As a nurse my wife would just bring the tests home from work and hit us all at once.

For school I think we had to use some other test system with confirmation and a 3rd party...all I remember is my wife was on the phone with some dude in India using a different test in a box, she got disconnected 3 times, and she had to show him the results and steps she was doing via video call. It was like an hour long process for one test. She got a bit annoyed after a bit, "This is bullshit! I do more than 30 of these tests in a day, there's gotta be a better way..."

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

They need to allow for a test after 5 days, and if the test comes back negative they can rejoin. That's what they were doing for our kid's sports, seemed to work pretty well.

Not sure what it’s like elsewhere but two weeks ago when I got sick I felt bad Sunday night and went to the doctor who had no rapid tests. Took normal test. Didn’t get results till Friday. I didn’t leave the bed for Monday-Wednesday. Fever stopped Thursday. Still felt terrible throughout Sun but symptoms abated by next Friday night. Positive test returned on Friday night. I was with six people for a belated work Christmas party on the previous Friday and out of the six (wife included) me and three other people got sick by Sunday. The other two got sick by Saturday (wife didn’t get sick till after me). In fact the only guy in our office who didn’t get sick wasn’t there we had dinner and then spent three hours in a bar maskless basically. This is literally the only time I have done anything like that maskless in two years.

my wife and kid got sick on Wednesday took test on Thursday didn’t get results back till the following Thursday. Kid had one day of fevers and symptoms for three days. Wife had fever for four days and still has symptoms today. Test results were positive for kid and negative for wife.

She went to go get tested again and all the the places giving tests are our out. Test result turnaround time slipped and slipped and now we are out of tests. This includes each of the three major hospitals groups and MUSC which is the largest facility in the state. I have multiple friend who work for MUSC and they said they get tests in every day but are overwhelmed and can’t test everyone who wants one.

 

[Irish#1]

I just wish my kids' daycare would ease up on mandatory 10 day absences for exposures. Not positive tests, not symptoms, but exposures. People have jobs out here man.

Just put your kids in foster care until this finally blows over.

A lady that works for me has two boys and calls in about once a week, because of her daycare. She's frustrated.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Just put your kids in foster care until this finally blows over.

A lady that works for me has two boys and calls in about once a week, because of her daycare. She's frustrated.

Covid has caused people to lose their damn minds. Common sense has literally left the building for most people. It's triggered some sort of anxiety that they didn't realize they had (or if they already did suffer from being anxious, it's far worse now). My son's daycare teacher is so convinced that every little thing is Covid. She sent us an email the other day claiming he wasn't feeling well, was crying, and complaining his head hurt. She assumed he had a headache and checked his temperature. Temp came back normal. She still tells us we may need to come get him. My wife goes to get him and the teacher has her fill out an accident "Ouchee" report....because he bumped his head on a table earlier and had a cut behind his ear....which is why he said his head hurt. 100% not related to Covid or any other virus and this F'n lady had my wife leave work early to come get our son because she was flipping out about him maybe being sick.

Regarding tests, there's a shortage because of supply issues and government contracts w/n this country. Other countries aren't seeing the shortages we are. There's also an extreme demand here with over anxious people who want to test themselves after every time they sneeze. Only half-kidding. "R-E-L-A-X" -Bears owner, Aaron Rodgers

I know so many people who test themselves and their kids every other day because they're paranoid they have Covid. 100% vaccinated. Just sheer fear, panic, anxiety ridden folks who are hoarding these tests like they hoarded toilet paper two years ago.

 

[irishog77]

I've never taken a covid test.


But I also have only left my house twice in the last 2 years...and I wore gloves and a mask in my car...by myself.


On a side note, anybody have a use for 689 jars of urine? I need to make room for the 4 pallets of jars I have being delivered tomorrow.

 

[Rack Em]

I've never taken a covid test.


But I also have only left my house twice in the last 2 years...and I wore gloves and a mask in my car...by myself.


On a side note, anybody have a use for 689 jars of urine? I need to make room for the 4 pallets of jars I have being delivered tomorrow.

Clean or dirty urine? Asking for a friend who is definitely not ACamp.

 

[Rack Em]

I've never taken a covid test.


But I also have only left my house twice in the last 2 years...and I wore gloves and a mask in my car...by myself.


On a side note, anybody have a use for 689 jars of urine? I need to make room for the 4 pallets of jars I have being delivered tomorrow.

I hOpE yOu WeRe TrIpLeD VaXxEd BeFoRe SpReAdInG yOuR cOvId To EvErYoNe In ThAt CaR!

 

[TorontoGold]

Oof. We were just using standard rapid tests when it came to sports and it was kind of on an honor system because nobody checked any paperwork. As a nurse my wife would just bring the tests home from work and hit us all at once.

For school I think we had to use some other test system with confirmation and a 3rd party...all I remember is my wife was on the phone with some dude in India using a different test in a box, she got disconnected 3 times, and she had to show him the results and steps she was doing via video call. It was like an hour long process for one test. She got a bit annoyed after a bit, "This is bullshit! I do more than 30 of these tests in a day, there's gotta be a better way..."

Does your wife have the ability to order tests through her work for herself? I have friends with wives in health care that got vaxxed at like 3AM through hook-ups. You wouldn't expect that in a first world country lol.

 

[Irishize]

There is a lot of discussion in the medical community regarding a path forward. The discussion is not about safety of vaccines or their utility, ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine. All that is a bit mute except on the fringes. The big questions seem to be, are what we're doing working, should there be mandates, where is this going. The politicians and medical policy establishment seem be be more reactionary than visionary

And what rarely gets discussed is hospitals approving their nurses & docs to work despite a positive test. It happens at my wife’s hospital and just goes to further fuel the overall argument b/c of the inconsistency across the board. Reportedly, omicron does not include loss of taste/smell as a symptom like the previous variants. Consequently, folks can have cold symptoms and tell everyone they’re battling a cold while not getting tested to see if it’s actually COVID. This happens more than folks want to admit in healthcare settings.

 

[PerthDomer]

And what rarely gets discussed is hospitals approving their nurses & docs to work despite a positive test. It happens at my wife’s hospital and just goes to further fuel the overall argument b/c of the inconsistency across the board. Reportedly, omicron does not include loss of taste/smell as a symptom like the previous variants. Consequently, folks can have cold symptoms and tell everyone they’re battling a cold while not getting tested to see if it’s actually COVID. This happens more than folks want to admit in healthcare settings.

Hospitals have different standards of care for different situations. Basically low levels of disease, high levels and crazy high levels. At crazy high levels you literally cannot staff hospitals without utilizing sick workers. Using those workers gives risk to patients because 1 sick people don't work as well and 2 you risk infecting non covid patients. So you have to do what minimizes the harm to patients. Sometimes that's working sick.

This is a pretty good take on where we are with Covid. Jha has also convinced Brown not to mimick other Ivy League schools in crazy covid policy and helped Rhode Island schools stay open.

Ashish K. Jha, MD, MPH (@ashishkjha) Tweeted:
We're in a transition moment in this pandemic

We're coming off highs of the worst surge of infections we've ever had

Cases are high but starting to fall in much of the nation

This moment raises lots of questions

With one big one: What happens next?

Thread https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1485829908668559360?s=20

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Hospitals have different standards of care for different situations. Basically low levels of disease, high levels and crazy high levels. At crazy high levels you literally cannot staff hospitals without utilizing sick workers. Using those workers gives risk to patients because 1 sick people don't work as well and 2 you risk infecting non covid patients. So you have to do what minimizes the harm to patients. Sometimes that's working sick.

This is a pretty good take on where we are with Covid. Jha has also convinced Brown not to mimick other Ivy League schools in crazy covid policy and helped Rhode Island schools stay open.

Ashish K. Jha, MD, MPH (@ashishkjha) Tweeted:
We're in a transition moment in this pandemic

We're coming off highs of the worst surge of infections we've ever had

Cases are high but starting to fall in much of the nation

This moment raises lots of questions

With one big one: What happens next?

Thread https://twitter.com/ashishkjha/status/1485829908668559360?s=20

He's a good follow too (even though you disagree with Vinay as the other). I read this thread earlier and largely agree with him on all points. I do wish there was a greater urgency with therapeutics. I also wish there was a push for better antibody testing --> Natural Immunity is not talked about enough as it pertains to additional shots. Plenty of physicians are recommending their patients to hold off on boosters if they've had Covid within a certain time period (I've heard 30 days up to 90 days depending on which doc I've spoken to). I also wish the messaging behind more shots would be vastly more clear. Most people will continue to get yearly shots (as they've done with flu shots) without much pushback. But if messaging continues to further the mistrust we see in the media and our institutions, good luck getting people to willingly sign up for multiple shots. This would result in more talk about mandates which are largely unpopular in the U.S. If you truly want to prepare for any future waves, being honest and straightforward will yield better results with less pushback than any kind of mandate, imo.

 

[PerthDomer]

From the start of the pandemic we've seen quacks/fringe medical people emerge because there is demand for their views. People wanted to hear there was a cure that existed and was being suppressed. Hence HCQ and Ivermectin. People wanted to hear the disease wasn't so bad. Once people buy that then why get vaccinated? So there was demand to hear the vaccines risk doesn't justify the benefit regardless of what's real.

The pandemic has really paralleled the politics of Climate Change, just in rapid speed. Fringe scientists getting platformed on the right, attacks on mainstream scientists etc. Just the pandemic moves in weeks and months and the climate moves over decades.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

From the start of the pandemic we've seen quacks/fringe medical people emerge because there is demand for their views. People wanted to hear there was a cure that existed and was being suppressed. Hence HCQ and Ivermectin. People wanted to hear the disease wasn't so bad. Once people buy that then why get vaccinated? So there was demand to hear the vaccines risk doesn't justify the benefit regardless of what's real.

The pandemic has really paralleled the politics of Climate Change, just in rapid speed. Fringe scientists getting platformed on the right, attacks on mainstream scientists etc. Just the pandemic moves in weeks and months and the climate moves over decades.

I agree with this. It should have never been politicized. But I wouldn't focus on just the Right. The Left tries to claim the "Party of Science," but they too have had plenty of missteps during the last two years. It's why I said the focus needs to be on truthful, transparent messaging.

Regarding vaccine rate, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't something like 90+% of the high risk population in the U.S. have at least one shot on board (which is still far more effective at reducing death and hospitalization that no shot at all)?

It was a monumental disservice to Americans for the Right to label this as "a hoax", like "the flu", etc in the early days. Conversely, I feel it's still a disservice (albeit not as deadly) for the Left to act like a vaccinated and boosted person needs to worry about Omicron. Two way street is all I'm saying and the goal should be a united front that we can all trust and follow accordingly.

 

[PerthDomer]

I agree with this. It should have never been politicized. But I wouldn't focus on just the Right. The Left tries to claim the "Party of Science," but they too have had plenty of missteps during the last two years. It's why I said the focus needs to be on truthful, transparent messaging.

Regarding vaccine rate, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't something like 90+% of the high risk population in the U.S. have at least one shot on board (which is still far more effective at reducing death and hospitalization that no shot at all)?

It was a monumental disservice to Americans for the Right to label this as "a hoax", like "the flu", etc in the early days. Conversely, I feel it's still a disservice (albeit not as deadly) for the Left to act like a vaccinated and boosted person needs to worry about Omicron. Two way street is all I'm saying and the goal should be a united front that we can all trust and follow accordingly.

I agree, but it parallels the two parties views on science. The right distrusts things that are consensus views because they are consensus views. The left assumes it's opinions must be consensus and that things that disagree with them must be put out by quacks. An example was a scientist who was the leader of his field showing that global warming may not cause more hurricanes than baseline while at the same time saying it is real, bad, will cause more hurricanes etc. A lot of lefty types went after him.

In the rest of the world non populist right wing leaders made choices informed by science, and societies are less polarized over it. Heck, in the UK Tories are by far the most vaccinated party.

Also. Everyone is at risk for severe disease. Defining over 65 or morbidly obese as it for high risk was a big disservice. This strikes down otherwise healthy adults in good numbers.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I agree, but it parallels the two parties views on science. The right distrusts things that are consensus views because they are consensus views. The left assumes it's opinions must be consensus and that things that disagree with them must be put out by quacks. An example was a scientist who was the leader of his field showing that global warming may not cause more hurricanes than baseline while at the same time saying it is real, bad, will cause more hurricanes etc. A lot of lefty types went after him.

In the rest of the world non populist right wing leaders made choices informed by science, and societies are less polarized over it. Heck, in the UK Tories are by far the most vaccinated party.

Also. Everyone is at risk for severe disease. Defining over 65 or morbidly obese as it for high risk was a big disservice. This strikes down otherwise healthy adults in good numbers.

Scientific consensus is a problem though as it pertains to funding, clout/recognition, etc. For example (and forgive me, I can't recall the specifics), there's long been a consensus that the earliest known humans in the US were less than 15,000 years old. Now, there are claims based on recent discovery in modern day California that humans could've been in the US about 130,000 years ago. There is a fight among anthropologists and a push to discredit this discovery (although, I believe recently the tides have turned on that). Point being, 1) science is supposed to be questioned and tested 2) there is often times a motive to maintain consensus and discredit disagreement as "quacks," like you say and 3) the Right will almost always question institutional consensus as it's just part of their political DNA and also, see points 1 and 2.

Can you please elaborate on "everyone is at risk for severe disease?"

 

[PerthDomer]

Scientific consensus is a problem though as it pertains to funding, clout/recognition, etc. For example (and forgive me, I can't recall the specifics), there's long been a consensus that the earliest known humans in the US were less than 15,000 years old. Now, there are claims based on recent discovery in modern day California that humans could've been in the US about 130,000 years ago. There is a fight among anthropologists and a push to discredit this discovery (although, I believe recently the tides have turned on that). Point being, 1) science is supposed to be questioned and tested 2) there is often times a motive to maintain consensus and discredit disagreement as "quacks," like you say and 3) the Right will almost always question institutional consensus as it's just part of their political DNA and also, see points 1 and 2.

Can you please elaborate on "everyone is at risk for severe disease?"

Sure, I've seen kids die of Covid, my adult intensivist friends have seen young healthy special forces guys get intubated etc. This kills a good number of under 65 year old people in reasonable health. 900k is a large number, so even though most deaths are old or unhealthy that leaves a large number of dead or maimed young people.

And sometimes the consensus is wrong. It's important to ask questions. But the questions being asked were frequently out of the realm of reason. The actual debates occurring in the field weren't the ones being adjudicated on Twitter.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Sure, I've seen kids die of Covid, my adult intensivist friends have seen young healthy special forces guys get intubated etc. This kills a good number of under 65 year old people in reasonable health. 900k is a large number, so even though most deaths are old or unhealthy that leaves a large number of dead or maimed young people.

And sometimes the consensus is wrong. It's important to ask questions. But the questions being asked were frequently out of the realm of reason. The actual debates occurring in the field weren't the ones being adjudicated on Twitter.

As it pertains to public health policy, specifically mandates, do you think it's wise to draw such hard lines like some politicians have regarding such a small percentage of the population? Younger, healthy people who have been intubated or died aren't the norm for this virus, especially post-vaccine rollout. The overwhelming majority of people in the hospital or who have died from Covid, have greater than four co-morbidities, no? Same goes for kids. I have two kids of my own, I don't want any kid to die. One is too many. But you don't make public policy based on extreme minorities or outliers. I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth, but as a devil's advocate, I think that's where a lot of the pushback is stemming from. A mandate to a young, healthy person who is statistically at very low risk for getting severely sick seems counterproductive and doesn't breed trust.

Are you saying Twitter isn't real life?! lol

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[irishog77]

Sure, I've seen kids die of Covid, my adult intensivist friends have seen young healthy special forces guys get intubated etc. This kills a good number of under 65 year old people in reasonable health. 900k is a large number, so even though most deaths are old or unhealthy that leaves a large number of dead or maimed young people.

And sometimes the consensus is wrong. It's important to ask questions. But the questions being asked were frequently out of the realm of reason. The actual debates occurring in the field weren't the ones being adjudicated on Twitter.

Strong disagree. Questioning any or all of:

-the effectiveness of masks (especially cloth)
-the effectiveness of lock downs
-long term mental, developmental, and emotional health of people (especially children and adolescents) in lockdowns and isolation
-the effectiveness of natural immunity
-a "vaccine" produced at "warp speed'
-the foreknowledge that changing and evolving variants would emerge, and how the vaccine would work on these variants not yet in existence
-the transmission and infection rate of those vaccinated
-sending infected, elderly patients back into nursing homes
-the golden opportunity for health officials to highlight, and come down on, Americans overall health in regards to obesity, high blood pressure, and diabetes, but have remained virtually silent
-covid surface transmission
-requiring and mandating people who have been infected (sometimes twice) to not only get vaccinated, but boosted as well
-why people in politics and privilege are not required to live by the rules for the rest of society, often times done by people who made the "rules"
-how the virus becomes MORE dangerous and infectious at certain times of the day (curfews)
-why monoclonal treatments were laughed at as quack science
-the color of one's skin factoring in
-why the count of infected keeps changing, along with the methodology of said counting
-and why a person who died from a car wreck, but was counted as a covid death

These are merely some examples off the top of my head. I could go on.

Questioning these is not at all "out of the realm of reason." Yet, any who have even wondered about these things, and even for a moment questioned "settled science," have been labeled anti-science, anti-vax, science deniers, and lunatics.

 

[Irish#1]

Strong disagree. Questioning any or all of: the effectiveness of masks (especially cloth); the effectiveness of lock downs; long term mental, developmental, and emotional health of people (especially children and adolescents) in lockdowns and isolation; the effectiveness of natural immunity; a "vaccine" produced at "warp speed'; the foreknowledge that changing and evolving variants would emerge, and how the vaccine would work on these variants not yet in existence; the transmission and infection rate of those vaccinated; sending infected, elderly patients back into nursing homes; the golden opportunity for health officials to highlight, and come down on, Americans overall health in regards to obesity, high blood pressure, and diabetes; covid surface transmission; requiring and mandating people who have been infected (sometimes twice) to not only get vaccinated, but boosted as well; why people in politics and privilege are not required to live by the rules for the rest of society; how the virus becomes MORE dangerous and infectious at certain times of the day (curfews); why monoclonal treatments were laughed at as quack science; the color of one's skin factoring in; why the count of infected keeps changing, along with the methodology of said counting; and why a person who died from a car wreck, but was counted as a covid death are merely some examples off the top of my head. I could go on.

Questioning these is not at all "out of the realm of reason." Yet, any who have even wondered about these things, and even for a moment questioned "settled science," have been labeled anti-science, anti-vax, science deniers, and lunatics.

I think bullets points might have been better. My eyes and brain struggled to read that.

 

[irishog77]

I think bullets points might have been better. My eyes and brain struggled to read that.

As I said, it was off the top of my head! Maybe I'll edit it...