Coaching Carousel

[MNIrishman]

Got a hard on for Nebraska? lol

I'm not a Husker fan, but they do have a history of some elite football. Devaney didn't pull a rabbit out of his hat. He built a program. You don't go 101-20 and win two NC's by getting lucky. Osborne took over and kept them rolling going 255-49 and winning several NC's. Even Solich did pretty good. Whether they become relevant again, I don't know, but you can't dismiss their history. Name me one program that hasn't went through what they have.

Interestingly, Ohio State

 

[texbender]

I see this morning that Frost is being given another year.

 

[drayer54]

Got a hard on for Nebraska? lol

I'm not a Husker fan, but they do have a history of some elite football. Devaney didn't pull a rabbit out of his hat. He built a program. You don't go 101-20 and win two NC's by getting lucky. Osborne took over and kept them rolling going 255-49 and winning several NC's. Even Solich did pretty good. Whether they become relevant again, I don't know, but you can't dismiss their history. Name me one program that hasn't went through what they have.

No kidding. I remember them turning ND stadium red. Osborne did an amazing job and they bulldozed people through the 90's. Solich took them to a natty game and Pelini held them relevant. They just fell apart when they hired a crap coach from Oregon State. Nebraska has a die hard fan base and some nice facilities. They won't give up.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Nebraska's secret was steroids and the first modern weight training program. That advantage is never coming back.

Even so, they're perfectly capable of putting together top 25 recruiting classes thanks to their resources and name.

It's hard to evaluate Frost insofar as he's been terrible in the win/column but his teams have seemingly been better than that. So there's real potential for improvement and I don't think this is the wrong choice for Nebraska since he restructured his deal (saving Nebraska money if they do cut him loose next season) and they would be well back in line as a premier coaching destination this offseason.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Nebraska has been probably the worst Big Ten West team during the Scott Frost era. That's...really bad

 

[Rogue219]

Nebraska's secret was steroids and the first modern weight training program. That advantage is never coming back.

Even so, they're perfectly capable of putting together top 25 recruiting classes thanks to their resources and name.

It's hard to evaluate Frost insofar as he's been terrible in the win/column but his teams have seemingly been better than that. So there's real potential for improvement and I don't think this is the wrong choice for Nebraska since he restructured his deal (saving Nebraska money if they do cut him loose next season) and they would be well back in line as a premier coaching destination this offseason.

I think the scholarship limit going to 85 hurt them too. Sort of like Bowden's FSU program around the same era. They'd have over 100 dudes dressed for home games and many of them were walk ons who could have taken full rides at other schools.

Being in the Big 8, they could also recruit Texas pretty heavily, which now I don't believe is an advantage for them any longer when you consider the rise of programs like Baylor and TCU to respectability in recent years along with TAMU joining the SEC. The G5 teams like Houston and SMU have also made positive strides recently. There is no need for those kids to go to Nebraska anymore.

I don't know if they are really capable of coming back, though. They're not a fit in the Big Ten. Never really have been.

 

[Wild Bill]

Nebraska's secret was steroids and the first modern weight training program. That advantage is never coming back.

Even so, they're perfectly capable of putting together top 25 recruiting classes thanks to their resources and name.

It's hard to evaluate Frost insofar as he's been terrible in the win/column but his teams have seemingly been better than that. So there's real potential for improvement and I don't think this is the wrong choice for Nebraska since he restructured his deal (saving Nebraska money if they do cut him loose next season) and they would be well back in line as a premier coaching destination this offseason.

I agree with you here. They played OK, MSU, Michigan and OSU tough. That said, if he beats IL, MN and Purdue at home we're not having this conversation. His BEST record at Nebraksa over the last four years is 5-7. I really don't know what to make of it b/c they play hard AND they find ways to lose. That suggests players are committed to him but it also suggests he's missing something.

2022 schedule:
Northwestern (in dublin)
North Dakota
Georgia Southern
Oklahoma
at Rutgers
Indiana
at Michigan
Minnesota
at Wisconsin
Purdue
Illinois
at Iowa

Nebraska should be more talented than everyone on their schedule next year outside of OK and Michigan. They're about even with Wisconsin and Iowa so there is no excuse to not win at least 8 or 9 games next year. They'd have a parade for him if he could somehow win 10.

 

[Rogue219]

They've done everything short of just firing Frost and it is probably the best play. He's going to make less money, the buyout is less money and they went Michael Corleone's nephew baptism on the staff for one side of the ball. Maybe they had feelers out and nobody is really interested in the job. This might be the only move they can make.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Nebraska's AD gave Frost a "vote of confidence" LMAO

Trev Alberts: "There's not a lot of empirical data out there to suggest this will work, let's be honest. But I also think, if there's a decision point - whether it's football or anything else, you know, Scott's a brother, he's a Husker, and he's a Nebraskan."

 

[Irish du Nord]

I agree with you here. They played OK, MSU, Michigan and OSU tough. That said, if he beats IL, MN and Purdue at home we're not having this conversation. His BEST record at Nebraksa over the last four years is 5-7. I really don't know what to make of it b/c they play hard AND they find ways to lose. That suggests players are committed to him but it also suggests he's missing something.

2022 schedule:
Northwestern (in dublin)
North Dakota
Georgia Southern
Oklahoma
at Rutgers
Indiana
at Michigan
Minnesota
at Wisconsin
Purdue
Illinois
at Iowa

Nebraska should be more talented than everyone on their schedule next year outside of OK and Michigan. They're about even with Wisconsin and Iowa so there is no excuse to not win at least 8 or 9 games next year. They'd have a parade for him if he could somehow win 10.

No way they beat Wisconsin or Iowa. They could very easily go .500 or worse against Purdue, Minnesota, Illinois, and Indiana.

 

[Bishop2b5]

They've done everything short of just firing Frost and it is probably the best play. He's going to make less money, the buyout is less money and they went Michael Corleone's nephew baptism on the staff for one side of the ball. Maybe they had feelers out and nobody is really interested in the job. This might be the only move they can make.

I imagine there's a lot of truth to this. It's a tough place to win big and consistently these days. Not many stud coaches want to take on that job.

 

[Irish#1]

Interestingly, Ohio State

Not recently, but they've went through it as well. Late 50's through about 67 or so, then again for about five years in the 80's.

 

[Wild Bill]

No way they beat Wisconsin or Iowa. They could very easily go .500 or worse against Purdue, Minnesota, Illinois, and Indiana.

Sure. My point is that they are more talented than almost every team they play, and that will probably remain true next year despite their lackluster 2022 class. They currently have the 23rd highest rated roster in the country, which is good for 5th in the BIG, behind OSU, Michigan, Penn State and Wiscy who is ranked slightly better at 21. Outside of Wiscy, they're quite a bit more talented than any other roster in the BIG west - Iowa is 43, Minnesota is 44, Northwestern is 45, Purdue is 48, Illinois is 52.

Talent isn't everything but it's the key ingredient. At their worst, they have still managed to put together the second most talented roster in the BIG west. That makes Frost's record look that much worse but it does suggest Nebraska's program will not be total shit from now until the end of time.

The silver lining here is that they are a historically great team, and they were absolutely dominant not that long ago - they won a few titles in the mid to late 90s. Compare that to ND. They have an extraordinary fanbase and a great football atmostphere. They are still able to recruit despite being dreadful. Basically, most of the things you can say about Nebraska is what you could have said about ND in the late 90s- 2000s, and ND has found some success.

BIG and SEC seem to be emerging as the two premier conferences and within those two conferences, Nebraska finds itself in the least talented division. The BIG west is without question the easiest path to the conference title game and a playoff bid. I think it's crazy to assume nobody would want this job or that they simply cannot rebuild this program.

 

[Rogue219]

No way they beat Wisconsin or Iowa. They could very easily go .500 or worse against Purdue, Minnesota, Illinois, and Indiana.

You're talking about next season and we're 2/3 of the way through this season, which has been anything but predictable.

You may prove to be correct, but I think we're punting without our long snapper if we're already damning Nebraska's 2022. Let Scott Frost hire an offensive staff, sign a recruiting class and get a real estate agent on standby first.

 

[Irishbounty28]

Nebraska's secret was steroids and the first modern weight training program. That advantage is never coming back.

Even so, they're perfectly capable of putting together top 25 recruiting classes thanks to their resources and name.

It's hard to evaluate Frost insofar as he's been terrible in the win/column but his teams have seemingly been better than that. So there's real potential for improvement and I don't think this is the wrong choice for Nebraska since he restructured his deal (saving Nebraska money if they do cut him loose next season) and they would be well back in line as a premier coaching destination this offseason.

They did have a great strength and conditioning program, but the steroids portion wasn’t why they won. That’s laughable to say the least. Steroids was rampant pretty much all over sports in that era, so I don’t think that gave them a distinct advantage.

The biggest reason why some of these old programs have dropped is because of the limit on scholarships. When the limit was 105 Osborne was a proponent of recruiting talent just so he didn’t have to play against them on Saturdays, which the older limit allowed. Also, when you have 20 extra scholarship players it gives a little more room for error in recruiting.

Frost hasn’t been great but he was handed a program that was completely gutted by his predecessor. Similar to when Charlie took over at ND. Frosts biggest mistake has been his loyalty to Martinez. He has been mesmerized by what that kid “could” be, rather than coming to the realization his negatives far outweigh the positives. Martinez has given up 3 of the 4 games they have lost with turnovers. If he unhitched his wagon from that kid they could turn the corner.

 

[Wild Bill]

They did have a great strength and conditioning program, but the steroids portion wasn’t why they won. That’s laughable to say the least. Steroids was rampant pretty much all over sports in that era, so I don’t think that gave them a distinct advantage.

The biggest reason why some of these old programs have dropped is because of the limit on scholarships. When the limit was 105 Osborne was a proponent of recruiting talent just so he didn’t have to play against them on Saturdays, which the older limit allowed. Also, when you have 20 extra scholarship players it gives a little more room for error in recruiting.

Frost hasn’t been great but he was handed a program that was completely gutted by his predecessor. Similar to when Charlie took over at ND. Frosts biggest mistake has been his loyalty to Martinez. He has been mesmerized by what that kid “could” be, rather than coming to the realization his negatives far outweigh the positives. Martinez has given up 3 of the 4 games they have lost with turnovers. If he unhitched his wagon from that kid they could turn the corner.

I agree it wasn't the only explanation, and steroids were and still are prevalent. Almost every roster in the country has a few kids that juice but that's not going to give you a huge competitive advantage. However, if you get one or two players that are willing to spread the wealth around the locker room and the staff is willing to turn a blind eye, you will have a huge advantage over your opponents.

I have seen this play out on the teams I have been on and the teams many of my friends have played on - players ranging from high school, big ten, mac, IAA and D2 schools. Basically, you get one or two kids who are syringes falling out their ass obviously on juice. Some of them will never openly admit it to their teammates so the team avoids rampant abuse. However, others are more than happy to share their testosterone wealth. If that happens, you can bet your ass there will be a ton of freak shows on that team. Once it creeps into the program, it could be a situation where it's passed on from class to class. Basically, it was a lot easier to juice at some schools than it was at others b/c roids are simply more accessible in some places than they are at others and some programs are more willing to accept it than others.

I don't know if accessiblity is a major issue anymore but it certainly was an issue back in the late 90s and early 2000s.

 

[Irish#1]

While haters liked to claim ND wasn't what it used to be, I always contended ND was still a prime coaching gig while we suffered through Davie, Ty and Charlie. Just find the right guy. Is Frost the right guy? If he's willing to make some staffing changes and hires the right guys. If he isn't, then keep searching. It all comes down to hiring the right coach.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Lol, some of you are delusional. Nebraska will never matter again. Let’s check back in in 10 years and see.

 

[Irishbounty28]

I think a lot on here just hate Nebraska because their loyal fan base filled the Irish stadium when they visited. Either way, the likelihood they fall off the map entirely is slim to none. It may not be Frost but someone will get them on the right track. They may never be what they once were though.

 

[arndtjc]

Other than major staff turnover on offense, there’s a good chance they’ll lose some defensive staffers to better opportunities. The roster will take some big hits as well, most of the defensive starters are covid-seniors, and a big part of why the defense has been so successful. Nebraska is in big trouble, and Alberts pretty much punted to next season to cut the buyout in half. Zero chance the guy who has one winning season as a head coach get’s his second in ‘22, and he’ll be on his way to a career rehab in Tuscaloosa.

 

[Wild Bill]

Lol, some of you are delusional. Nebraska will never matter again. Let’s check back in in 10 years and see.

Everyone is so certain of that but can't provide a reason why outside of the fact that they're dog shit now and they play in the middle of nowhere. I'm trying to figure out how that does't apply to ND.

How did Saban get bama going after they were .500 for years and firing coaches for hanging out with strippers? Perhaps he relied heavily on the vibrant culture and exciting nightlife Tuscaloosa Alabama has to offer. Same with Bob Stoops at Oklahoma. Norman is just thrilling and he had piles of in state talent. I guess that makes it a little easier.

 

[Dale]

Everyone is so certain of that but can't provide a reason why outside of the fact that they're dog shit now and they play in the middle of nowhere. I'm trying to figure out how that does't apply to ND.

How did Saban get bama going after they were .500 for years and firing coaches for hanging out with strippers? Perhaps he relied heavily on the vibrant culture and exciting nightlife Tuscaloosa Alabama has to offer. Same with Bob Stoops at Oklahoma. Norman is just thrilling and he had piles of in state talent. I guess that makes it a little easier.

Nebraska and Indiana are not the same as far as recruiting footprint. Not really close. Indiana produces on its own more talent than Nebraska and every immediately neighboring state produces HS talent, elite in the case of Ohio. Nebraska not only does not produce said talent, it’s neighbors don’t either. So what helps ND besides more talent? Competitive advantage of being unique and the national schedule. Nebraska is not unique and plays a B1G schedule, as mentioned earlier, significantly less advantageous than their Big 12 schedule where they could sell as Dallas kid “hey we’re in Lincoln but you’re family can see you play in the Texas area half the year”. Recruiting is not really about yeah Tuscaloosa is great. It’s can I drive 4 hours with my parents as a Junior and not have to stay overnight for a hotel bill. It’s can my family see me play once I’m there more than once a year.

 

[Irish#1]

Nebraska and Indiana are not the same as far as recruiting footprint. Not really close. Indiana produces on its own more talent than Nebraska and every immediately neighboring state produces HS talent, elite in the case of Ohio. Nebraska not only does not produce said talent, it’s neighbors don’t either. So what helps ND besides more talent? Competitive advantage of being unique and the national schedule. Nebraska is not unique and plays a B1G schedule, as mentioned earlier, significantly less advantageous than their Big 12 schedule where they could sell as Dallas kid “hey we’re in Lincoln but you’re family can see you play in the Texas area half the year”. Recruiting is not really about yeah Tuscaloosa is great. It’s can I drive 4 hours with my parents as a Junior and not have to stay overnight for a hotel bill. It’s can my family see me play once I’m there more than once a year.

Speaking from experience, most parents will find a way to watch their son played whether it’s in Lincoln, West Lafayette, Ames or most any place.

 

[BrownerandFry]

I think a lot on here just hate Nebraska because their loyal fan base filled the Irish stadium when they visited. Either way, the likelihood they fall off the map entirely is slim to none. It may not be Frost but someone will get them on the right track. They may never be what they once were though.

I find the reaction of those who hate Nebraska for the reasons mentioned to be jejune, puerile and narcissistic.

My own experience, however anecdotal, is that Nebraska fans are the best in America in terms of TRUE sportsmanship and recognizing a quality performance by a visiting opponent.

Ohio State is the worst, far worse than Cane fans in the old Orange Bowl.

And Notre Dame fans can be infantile insular dickheads after a loss, embarassing themselves more than the team did by
carping about referees
admission standards and other drivel.

One of my favorite things in America, rivaling Teddy Roose.velt's national park emphasis and Ike's Interstate Highway System is the Land Grant Universities. What a resource and what a national treasure! And their raison d'etre involves a mission which encompasses more accommodating admission standards than a private school like Notre Dame

So, from one loyal Dome fan: Hats off to Husker fans.!

 

[Dale]

Speaking from experience, most parents will find a way to watch their son played whether it’s in Lincoln, West Lafayette, Ames or most any place.

Don’t doubt that they may want to. Not nearly that simple for many. Bowen as a decent example I believe referenced closer to home was ideal for him in relation to his family. Just because Pops may say I’ll go drive whenever, whenever to see you play doesn’t mean a kid won’t decide on something that is easier for his parents, family.

There are hundreds of visits that never happened, rides that never got sorted out due to location. And Nebraska’s is significantly less advantageous than Notre Dame

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Don’t doubt that they may want to. Not nearly that simple for many. Bowen as a decent example I believe referenced closer to home was ideal for him in relation to his family. Just because Pops may say I’ll go drive whenever, whenever to see you play doesn’t mean a kid won’t decide on something that is easier for his parents, family.

There are hundreds of visits that never happened, rides that never got sorted out due to location. And Nebraska’s is significantly less advantageous than Notre Dame

These days I only drive up for about one game a year.

 

[arndtjc]

Nebraska and Indiana are not the same as far as recruiting footprint. Not really close. Indiana produces on its own more talent than Nebraska and every immediately neighboring state produces HS talent, elite in the case of Ohio. Nebraska not only does not produce said talent, it’s neighbors don’t either. So what helps ND besides more talent? Competitive advantage of being unique and the national schedule. Nebraska is not unique and plays a B1G schedule, as mentioned earlier, significantly less advantageous than their Big 12 schedule where they could sell as Dallas kid “hey we’re in Lincoln but you’re family can see you play in the Texas area half the year”. Recruiting is not really about yeah Tuscaloosa is great. It’s can I drive 4 hours with my parents as a Junior and not have to stay overnight for a hotel bill. It’s can my family see me play once I’m there more than once a year.

The Omaha Metro is finally churning out a bit of decent 3* talent....and they’re running as far away from Lincoln as fast as they possibly can. Frost can’t even sell the program in-state, it sure makes it an even harder sell to kids from 5* hot beds

I find the reaction of those who hate Nebraska for the reasons mentioned to be jejune, puerile and narcissistic.

My own experience, however anecdotal, is that Nebraska fans are the best in America in terms of TRUE sportsmanship and recognizing a quality performance by a visiting opponent.

Ohio State is the worst, far worse than Cane fans in the old Orange Bowl.

And Notre Dame fans can be infantile insular dickheads after a loss, embarassing themselves more than the team did by
carping about referees
admission standards and other drivel.

One of my favorite things in America, rivaling Teddy Roose.velt's national park emphasis and Ike's Interstate Highway System is the Land Grant Universities. What a resource and what a national treasure! And their raison d'etre involves a mission which encompasses more accommodating admission standards than a private school like Notre Dame

So, from one loyal Dome fan: Hats off to Husker fans.!

Living in Huskerland I’m here to tell you: Husker fans are the infantile dickheads you just described to a tee.

 

[Wild Bill]

Nebraska and Indiana are not the same as far as recruiting footprint. Not really close. Indiana produces on its own more talent than Nebraska and every immediately neighboring state produces HS talent, elite in the case of Ohio. Nebraska not only does not produce said talent, it’s neighbors don’t either. So what helps ND besides more talent? Competitive advantage of being unique and the national schedule. Nebraska is not unique and plays a B1G schedule, as mentioned earlier, significantly less advantageous than their Big 12 schedule where they could sell as Dallas kid “hey we’re in Lincoln but you’re family can see you play in the Texas area half the year”. Recruiting is not really about yeah Tuscaloosa is great. It’s can I drive 4 hours with my parents as a Junior and not have to stay overnight for a hotel bill. It’s can my family see me play once I’m there more than once a year.

Sure, Indiana is better than Nebraska overall but it's not an incredible talent gap and ND is competing with two other P5 schools for the in state talent. The in state conversation is largely irrelevant b/c nobody is building a relevant program relying on in state talent from Nebraska or Indiana.

I could be wrong but I'm not so sure the unique nature of ND would be important to recruits if they were a shit program. Duke is unique, Stanford is unique, Vandy is unique. The most significant unique characteristic about ND is that it is a blue blood school with a great history. The same is true about Nebraska. People tend to forget about that during the bad times. I remember national pundits having conversations about whether or not ND was relevant in 2016, just a few years removed from playing for a title.

I think you're right, leaving the BIG 12 hurt them with recruiting in Texas. To what extent and whether or not it can be overcome is up for debate. I think they can recruit on a national level no different than Oklahoma if they can put a winner on the field. OK gets a significant portion of their high end talent outside of Big 12 country - CA, AZ, MD, FL, GA, VA, Wash DC.

OK and NE are similarliy situated programs - blue bloods great plains and limited in state talent. I think it's reasonable to assume the difference between OK landing these blue chips has more to do with winning and producing NFL talent and less to do with playing in Texas a few times a year. I think OK would agree, which is why they are leaving the BIG 12.

 

[Rogue219]

While haters liked to claim ND wasn't what it used to be, I always contended ND was still a prime coaching gig while we suffered through Davie, Ty and Charlie. Just find the right guy. Is Frost the right guy? If he's willing to make some staffing changes and hires the right guys. If he isn't, then keep searching. It all comes down to hiring the right coach.

Maybe. The facility upgrades didn't really happen until the end of the Willingham Era/start of Weis. I think Holtz really pushed for that and knew they needed to get with it.

Biggest thing for me is finding the guy who actually WANTS the job, and I think that guy has to be someone who has been an college HC before. If he hasn't been, he'd better be really damn smart and really damn charismatic. I didn't think much of Davie ever and Weis was just an insufferable Parcells/Belichick lieutenant who thought he was smarter than he really was.

Kelly wanted it and the timing fell into place. So much of this is timing in the end. We thought the timing was there with Meyer, but he totally played Jenkins and White. I don't think that happens again with Jenkins and Swarbrick, though.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Maybe. The facility upgrades didn't really happen until the end of the Willingham Era/start of Weis. I think Holtz really pushed for that and knew they needed to get with it.

Biggest thing for me is finding the guy who actually WANTS the job, and I think that guy has to be someone who has been an college HC before. If he hasn't been, he'd better be really damn smart and really damn charismatic. I didn't think much of Davie ever and Weis was just an insufferable Parcells/Belichick lieutenant who thought he was smarter than he really was.

Kelly wanted it and the timing fell into place. So much of this is timing in the end. We thought the timing was there with Meyer, but he totally played Jenkins and White. I don't think that happens again with Jenkins and Swarbrick, though.

ND completely lowballed Meyer on their salary offer. It was about half what Florida offered him (and fewer years too, IIRC) and ND had just pulled the plug on their prior coach after three years. I do wonder if ND screwed that one up or if it just wasn't going to happen.