COVID-19

BrownerandFry

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E-Ae-lXXoAE2F6f

It seems the real issue here is "triage" or to borrow from economics "allocation of a scarce resource."

Triage is ugly and contentious but practiced all the time by battlefield medics. It is neither pretty nor unnecessary.

The unvaccinated should not be denied medical care.

But in competition for limited ICU beds, I would be comfortable issuing the edict that the unvaccinated move to the back of the line. Of course, the conundrum comes when an otherwise healthy but unvaccinated Neanderthal complains about being bypassed by:

a methhead
a two pack a day cigarette smoker
an obese donut eater

But I've seen battlefield medics work triage.
Tough choices, tougher deaths.

But those choices, somehow, must be made.
 

PerthDomer

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It seems the real issue here is "triage" or to borrow from economics "allocation of a scarce resource."

Triage is ugly and contentious but practiced all the time by battlefield medics. It is neither pretty nor unnecessary.

The unvaccinated should not be denied medical care.

But in competition for limited ICU beds, I would be comfortable issuing the edict that the unvaccinated move to the back of the line. Of course, the conundrum comes when an otherwise healthy but unvaccinated Neanderthal complains about being bypassed by:

a methhead
a two pack a day cigarette smoker
an obese donut eater

But I've seen battlefield medics work triage.
Tough choices, tougher deaths.

But those choices, somehow, must be made.

The decision will always be who can we do the most for to maximize resource allocation. Unfortunately for the immunosuppressed that is usually going to be the 40 year old without comorbidities who's dying of COVID. Which is why vaccine mandates make sense because the 50 year old with cancer might lose out on ecmo because his chances of survival are less despite vaccination.
 

BrownerandFry

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According to Worldometer, over 3200 dead from Covid in US on Thursday and Friday..
That's a "911" every two days, unless the rate subsides

more people getting vaccinated?

Too little, too late?

Did we lose the chance to get herd immunity before the virus began evolving and mutating?.....
 

Irishize

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According to Worldometer, over 3200 dead from Covid in US on Thursday and Friday..
That's a "911" every two days, unless the rate subsides

more people getting vaccinated?

Too little, too late?

Did we lose the chance to get herd immunity before the virus began evolving and mutating?.....

Herd immunity was out the window about the time they halted the J&J vaccine and the daily vax rates stalled before decreasing. The window may have been open but it’s shut now so COVID is endemic. The goal of “zero COVID” is unattainable.
 

Valpodoc85

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Watching weekend football that number of 3200 is going to Be eclipsed pretty quickly.
 

ulukinatme

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My wife works at the 2nd busiest Kroger Clinic in the country. Pretty much all she does these days is vaccines and COVID tests. Her bosses told her recently that on an individual level she's given more vaccines that anyone else in the country, at least for Kroger. Thought that was kinda cool.
 

BrownerandFry

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My wife works at the 2nd busiest Kroger Clinic in the country. Pretty much all she does these days is vaccines and COVID tests. Her bosses told her recently that on an individual level she's given more vaccines that anyone else in the country, at least for Kroger. Thought that was kinda cool.

good for your wife!!

She is an American, and Krogerite hero!!

My sole fear, is caregiver and medical personnel fatigue.
.

I hope your bride is good to herself....
 

Cackalacky2.0

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1915346.html
The doctor insisted the policy doesn't violate her Hippocratic Oath, a set of ethical standards doctors pledge regarding the obligations to their patients, noting she’s still offering the option of telemedicine or helping with referrals to other doctors. She also said she would make exceptions for people who could not get vaccinated for health reasons.

Marraccini said only about 10% to 15% of her patients were vaccine hesitant. She gave them a month to help them work out a plan moving forward.

Florida is in the grip of its deadliest wave of COVID-19 since the pandemic began, a disaster driven by the highly contagious delta variant. While Florida’s vaccination rate is slightly higher than the national average, the Sunshine State has an outsize population of elderly people, who are especially vulnerable to the virus; a vibrant party scene; and a Republican governor who has taken a hard line against mask requirements, vaccine passports and business shutdowns
I understand this isnt the same as an emergency bed, still worthy of reading. First Ive heard of doctorss not allowing unvaccinated patients into the office
 
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Cackalacky2.0

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My wife works at the 2nd busiest Kroger Clinic in the country. Pretty much all she does these days is vaccines and COVID tests. Her bosses told her recently that on an individual level she's given more vaccines that anyone else in the country, at least for Kroger. Thought that was kinda cool.

Please thank her for me. My sister who is a Covid floor nurse in Mississippi has lost 7 people in the last two days (ranging in age from 10yo-59yo) all unvaccinated no real comorbidities.

My local hospital(s) has had a 4th grader die, a high school age kid die and there have been multiple teachers die across the state. All unvaccinated.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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[TWEET]https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1435200650804146177[/TWEET] Just curious on thoughts for this behavior? Criminal? Harrassment? Or are they being soft pussies?
 

ab2cmiller

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She shouldn't be coughing on anyone (even in jest) and the person filming her shouldn't be harassing her because she's not wearing a mask. If it's a store policy to wear a mask, go notify the store manager. Filming people trying to create a reaction is not the solution.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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She shouldn't be coughing on anyone (even in jest) and the person filming her shouldn't be harassing her because she's not wearing a mask. If it's a store policy to wear a mask, go notify the store manager. Filming people trying to create a reaction is not the solution.

In the video, the text says she was following them around harrassing them and they filmed it. They did tell a store person and even after the store people told her to leave them alone she followed and harrassed them (per the video text) Maybe Im missing something? Im sure things occurred before the video started as well.
 

ab2cmiller

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In the video, the text says she was following them around harrassing them and they filmed it. They did tell a store person and even after the store people told her to leave them alone she followed and harrassed them (per the video text) Maybe Im missing something? Im sure things occurred before the video started as well.

I didn't pay much attention to the text. There's always pretext to a video. We certainly don't know what happened before the camera started rolling. One thing I'm certain of is this lady didn't just randomly start targeting people to harass upon entering the store.

Something was said by the people that did the filming. It could have been something very innocent like "could you please put on a mask" and the lady simply went crazy over a simple request. It could've been that the people doing the filming were initially the harassers and were trying to provoke a reaction. Bottom line is we simply don't know.

There are far to many twitter videos that go viral that cause a huge reaction telling only part of the story and then later on we find out the picture that was being painted was not the true story. No way to tell what truly happened. At a minimum the lady is wrong for fake coughing on people, even if they were harassing her.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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I didn't pay much attention to the text. There's always pretext to a video. We certainly don't know what happened before the camera started rolling. One thing I'm certain of is this lady didn't just randomly start targeting people to harass upon entering the store.

Something was said by the people that did the filming. It could have been something very innocent like "could you please put on a mask" and the lady simply went crazy over a simple request. It could've been that the people doing the filming were initially the harassers and were trying to provoke a reaction. Bottom line is we simply don't know.

There are far to many twitter videos that go viral that cause a huge reaction telling only part of the story and then later on we find out the picture that was being painted was not the true story. No way to tell what truly happened. At a minimum the lady is wrong for fake coughing on people, even if they were harassing her.

Right. Totally agree here that probably stuff happened before hand. My point is that the woman for whatever reason was intentionally coughing on the people and it was clearly fake that she was claiming allergies. This kind of touches on a post I made earlier about criminality of this action (regardless of the preamble leading up to it).
 

RDU Irish

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Right. Totally agree here that probably stuff happened before hand. My point is that the woman for whatever reason was intentionally coughing on the people and it was clearly fake that she was claiming allergies. This kind of touches on a post I made earlier about criminality of this action (regardless of the preamble leading up to it).

So she should be jailed for being an asshole? Welcome to Covidistan.

http://twitter.com/MaryanneDemasi/st...95003060453378

To be fair "China Virus" is pretty unfair given...

https://twitter.com/R_H_Ebright/stat...53505169944579
 

Irish#1

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I didn't pay much attention to the text. There's always pretext to a video. We certainly don't know what happened before the camera started rolling. One thing I'm certain of is this lady didn't just randomly start targeting people to harass upon entering the store.

Something was said by the people that did the filming. It could have been something very innocent like "could you please put on a mask" and the lady simply went crazy over a simple request. It could've been that the people doing the filming were initially the harassers and were trying to provoke a reaction. Bottom line is we simply don't know.

There are far to many twitter videos that go viral that cause a huge reaction telling only part of the story and then later on we find out the picture that was being painted was not the true story. No way to tell what truly happened. At a minimum the lady is wrong for fake coughing on people, even if they were harassing her.

This was my initial thought. What prompted her to do that? Some SJW? I'm not condoning what she did, because it was wrong, but I have a hard time believing she just arbitrarily decided to do that.
 
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TorontoGold

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As said before there is precedent of criminality for intentionally getting someone sick prior to Covid.

Could something like indecent exposure be used as a similar situation? Not sure if that gets you thrown into the gulag.

Up here cancer patients were forced to wait for anti-vaxx crowds to leave the front of the hospital so they could treatment, no one was arrested or even received a citation lol.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Could something like indecent exposure be used as a similar situation? Not sure if that gets you thrown into the gulag.

Up here cancer patients were forced to wait for anti-vaxx crowds to leave the front of the hospital so they could treatment, no one was arrested or even received a citation lol.

Its my understanding that these statues are a possiblity but proving it is another issue altogether:
Transmitting the Coronavirus


States generally have two options for prosecuting people who recklessly or intentionally spread the coronavirus: communicable disease statutes and general criminal laws.
Communicable Disease Statutes


Some states already have communicable (contagious) disease statutes on the books. A majority of states passed these laws in the early years of the HIV epidemic. Communicable disease laws typically require that defendants:
  • have knowledge that they have a disease
  • specifically intend (consciously desire) to transmit the disease, and
  • engage in conduct that poses a substantial risk of transmission of the disease.
The penalties for violating communicable disease laws vary significantly from state to state. Most states categorize the crime as a misdemeanor.

Critics of communicable disease laws argue that punishing people who spread the coronavirus might have negative public health impacts. First, booking people with the coronavirus into custody undermines efforts to stop the spread of the virus in jails and prisons, where physical distancing is impossible. Second, communicable disease laws (like HIV laws) might make people less willing to get tested and disclose their status because they fear criminal prosecution and discrimination.
General Criminal Laws


Law enforcement and prosecutors are also using general state and federal laws to prosecute people who intentionally spread or threaten to spread the coronavirus.

Terrorism and terrorist threats. At the federal level, the Department of Justice (DOJ) formally announced that the coronavirus appears to meet the statutory definition of a "biological agent," and people who intentionally spread the virus could be prosecuted for terrorism. For example, an infected white supremacist who uses a spray bottle to spread infectious bodily fluids in synagogues can be prosecuted under federal anti-terrorism laws.

State prosecutors have already filed terrorist threat charges against people who deliberately cough, spit, or touch others while claiming to be infected with the coronavirus. In terrorist threat cases, prosecutors don't have to prove that the defendant actually transmitted the coronavirus to the victim. Prosecutors must only prove that the defendant made a clear, immediate, and unconditional threat to transmit the virus.

Assault and battery. Charges for "coronavirus coughers" might also include assault and battery. Typically, an assault is an intentional act that causes another person to fear bodily harm. A battery requires that the defendant directly or indirectly touch the victim in an offensive manner.

For example, a person who spits in the face of a police officer while yelling "corona" can be charged with battery on a police officer. Most states classify assaults and batteries as either simple or aggravated, depending on the seriousness of the harm caused by the defendant. Many states punish crimes more severely during declared emergencies.

Child endangerment. Increasingly, prosecutors are throwing the book at people who violate emergency orders for social distancing. For example, a woman who insists on hosting a birthday party in violation of a stay-at-home order can be charged with violating the executive order and one count of child endangerment for each child at the party.
 

RDU Irish

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Its my understanding that these statues are a possiblity but proving it is another issue altogether:

"Child endangerment. Increasingly, prosecutors are throwing the book at people who violate emergency orders for social distancing. For example, a woman who insists on hosting a birthday party in violation of a stay-at-home order can be charged with violating the executive order and one count of child endangerment for each child at the party."

That is absolute lunacy. If you want to apply this level of "risk" to child endangerment then you should arrest anyone transporting children in a car. Odds of dying in a car crash annually are 1 in 8400. Exponentially more risky for a kid to be in a car than to get Covid.

Advocating criminal charges against someone throwing their kid a birthday party? That is twisted man.
 

ab2cmiller

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Fauci tried to walk a fine line trying to claim there was no gain of function research, to the point I thought he was going to say, depends upon what the definition of "is" is.

Fauci lied. I have zero confidence that he will be held to account.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/R_H_Ebright/status/1435053505169944579[/TWEET]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/R_H_Ebright/status/1435053507724279812[/TWEET]
 

TorontoGold

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That is absolute lunacy. If you want to apply this level of "risk" to child endangerment then you should arrest anyone transporting children in a car. Odds of dying in a car crash annually are 1 in 8400. Exponentially more risky for a kid to be in a car than to get Covid.

Advocating criminal charges against someone throwing their kid a birthday party? That is twisted man.

Think these three prior conditions need to be met before Covidstan police take you away.
  • have knowledge that they have a disease
  • specifically intend (consciously desire) to transmit the disease, and
  • engage in conduct that poses a substantial risk of transmission of the disease.
If someone knowingly has COVID, demonstrates intent to transmit, and carries out the conduct to do just that - should they be charged with something?
 

Cackalacky2.0

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That is absolute lunacy. If you want to apply this level of "risk" to child endangerment then you should arrest anyone transporting children in a car. Odds of dying in a car crash annually are 1 in 8400. Exponentially more risky for a kid to be in a car than to get Covid.

Advocating criminal charges against someone throwing their kid a birthday party? That is twisted man.

FTR those are not my quotes or thoughts... they are others from a legal standpoint based on the current statutes available.
 

RDU Irish

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FTR those are not my quotes or thoughts... they are others from a legal standpoint based on the current statutes available.

What are your thoughts on Fauci lying before Congress? That seems to be a simple legal matter at this point.
 

ab2cmiller

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FTR those are not my quotes or thoughts... they are others from a legal standpoint based on the current statutes available.

To be fair though, the guidance for potential child endangerment was in reference to those ignoring emergency orders. Wouldn't apply to the vast majority of the U.S. right now as most areas aren't under some emergency order.
 

bobbyok1

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According to Worldometer, over 3200 dead from Covid in US on Thursday and Friday..
That's a "911" every two days, unless the rate subsides

Cases/Deaths seem to be trending downward significantly in the short run. One prominent doctor, Dr. Peter McCollough, expected that we would see cases/death top out in this wave near the end of August. Not sure if he is correct, but at least there seems to be hope. . . In the meantime, if you get COVID, get EARLY TREATMENT, it's your best chance of minimal impact on your life.

Sept 1- 188,585 new cases and 1,580 new deaths
Sept 2- 185,635 new cases and 1,716 new deaths
Sept 3- 185,534 new cases and 1,507 new deaths
Sept 4- 69,715 new cases and 618 new deaths
Sept 5- 44,872 new cases and 417 new deaths
Sept 6- 39,644 new cases and 236 new deaths

Click image for larger version  Name:	Screen Shot 2021-09-07 at 12.52.36 PM.png Views:	0 Size:	367.8 KB ID:	3006926
 

ab2cmiller

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Cases/Deaths seem to be trending downward significantly in the short run. One prominent doctor, Dr. Peter McCollough, expected that we would see cases/death top out in this wave near the end of August. Not sure if he is correct, but at least there seems to be hope. . . In the meantime, if you get COVID, get EARLY TREATMENT, it's your best chance of minimal impact on your life.

Sept 1- 188,585 new cases and 1,580 new deaths
Sept 2- 185,635 new cases and 1,716 new deaths
Sept 3- 185,534 new cases and 1,507 new deaths
Sept 4- 69,715 new cases and 618 new deaths
Sept 5- 44,872 new cases and 417 new deaths
Sept 6- 39,644 new cases and 236 new deaths


Labor Day weekend reporting significantly impacts the death reporting. Even normal weekend reporting of deaths is typically impacted as not all states report over the weekend. The previous Saturday and Sunday counts were 735 and 864. Certainly a possibility that even more states didn't report over the holiday weekend. Regardless, cases seem to be cresting and deaths should crest soon as well.
 
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