Culture

[Irish#1]

I'm guessing she will be the favorite to win gold.

New Zealand weightlifter to become first transgender athlete at Olympic Games


https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/21/australia/laurel-hubbard-olympics-transgender-intl-hnk-spt/index.html

 

[drayer54]

I'm guessing she will be the favorite to win gold.

New Zealand weightlifter to become first transgender athlete at Olympic Games


https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/21/australia/laurel-hubbard-olympics-transgender-intl-hnk-spt/index.html

This should be a good red pill for those undecided on the issue. I would lose my shit if my daughter had to compete against boys in a women's division.

 

[NorthDakota]

This should be a good red pill for those undecided on the issue. I would lose my shit if my daughter had to compete against boys in a women's division.

I think it will help people to see a caricature of this nonsense at the highest level.

 

[TorontoGold]

IOC released testosterone level guidelines in 2015, this a non-issue lmao. She started transitioning in 2013, her T levels are likely trivial, and if they aren't guess what? There's the IOC guidelines. The faux outrage is hilarious.

 

[FLDomer]

IOC released testosterone level guidelines in 2015, this a non-issue lmao. She started transitioning in 2013, her T levels are likely trivial, and if they aren't guess what? There's the IOC guidelines. The faux outrage is hilarious.

IOC’s determining criteria — a maximum reading of 10 nanomoles per liter of testosterone — is as least five times more than a biological woman.

 

[NorthDakota]

IOC released testosterone level guidelines in 2015, this a non-issue lmao. She started transitioning in 2013, her T levels are likely trivial, and if they aren't guess what? There's the IOC guidelines. The faux outrage is hilarious.

Testosterone is not the only problem here. This individual should compete as a man or not at all.

 

[drayer54]

Testosterone is not the only problem here. This individual should compete as a man or not at all.

No kidding. If people want to manipulate their gender, that is their prerogative. However, they should have to compete at their natural scientifically assigned gender.

Where are the born women who transition to men that are dominating men's sports?

 

[TorontoGold]

Testosterone is not the only problem here. This individual should compete as a man or not at all.

What other issues other than the presumed competitive advantage of testosterone.

 

[drayer54]

What other issues other than the presumed competitive advantage of testosterone.

Where are the born women who transition to men that are dominating men's sports?

 

[TorontoGold]

Where are the born women who transition to men that are dominating men's sports?

What?

 

[ab2cmiller]

Testosterone is not the only problem here. This individual should compete as a man or not at all.

What other issues other than the presumed competitive advantage of testosterone.

Where are the born women who transition to men that are dominating men's sports?

Toronto seems to primarily be responding to "not the only problem here".

drayer seems to primarily be responding to "presumed competitive advantage of testosterone".

Thus the disconnect

 

[TorontoGold]

Toronto seems to primarily be responding to "not the only problem here".

drayer seems to primarily be responding to "presumed competitive advantage of testosterone".

Thus the disconnect

This^

I totally understand if the argument is "Someone with X levels of testosterone shouldn't compete with someone born genetically a woman because they have levels at Y" That makes sense and there can be rational agreement to that.

ND is hinting at other issues, not sure what other issues there are. Drayer? Who knows, looks to be an emotional argument.

 

[drayer54]

This^

I totally understand if the argument is "Someone with X levels of testosterone shouldn't compete with someone born genetically a woman because they have levels at Y" That makes sense and there can be rational agreement to that.

ND is hinting at other issues, not sure what other issues there are. Drayer? Who knows, looks to be an emotional argument.

We have several examples of people who are born a man and decide to become a woman, compete in sports, and excel.

I'm asking for examples of people who are born a woman, become a man, compete in sports, and excel?

If this isn't happening, why not?

 

[ab2cmiller]

We have several examples of people who are born a man and decide to become a woman, compete in sports, and excel.

I'm asking for examples of people who are born a woman, become a man, compete in sports, and excel?

If this isn't happening, why not?

Because the male body is superior to a female.

Hmmm, wait, I've changed my mind, the female body is definitely superior now that I've had time to visualize things.

 

[drayer54]

Because the male body is superior to a female.

Hmmm, wait, I've changed my mind, the female body is definitely superior now that I've had time to visualize things.

Well, these are trannies, so let's just stick to the athletic dynamic. Why am I not seeing a push to keep biological females out of boys' sports?

 

[TorontoGold]

We have several examples of people who are born a man and decide to become a woman, compete in sports, and excel.

I'm asking for examples of people who are born a woman, become a man, compete in sports, and excel?

If this isn't happening, why not?

Besides the sprinter from South Africa (not sure her country, but she was the reason behind the T rules), and this weightlifter how many are there really?

Of course it's not happening? Why would it happen? What is this proving? lmao, I've already stated I can get behind a discussion on T level changes in the Olympics but you're not really making a point? Can you state your point?

 

[drayer54]

Besides the sprinter from South Africa (not sure her country, but she was the reason behind the T rules), and this weightlifter how many are there really?

Of course it's not happening? Why would it happen? What is this proving? lmao, I've already stated I can get behind a discussion on T level changes in the Olympics but you're not really making a point? Can you state your point?

My point is that men who compete amongst girls ( and there are more than 2) do well because it is an unfair advantage. This Laurel did weightlifting as a man. You don’t see women converting and dominating because it isn’t an advantage. It’s not faux outrage, it’s ridiculous and an unfair advantage.

 

[TorontoGold]

My point is that men who compete amongst girls ( and there are more than 2) do well because it is an unfair advantage. This Laurel did weightlifting as a man. You don’t see women converting and dominating because it isn’t an advantage. It’s not faux outrage, it’s ridiculous and an unfair advantage.

They're not "men" but go on, do you have any studies or papers that show a statistically significant amount of Olympic sports or other sporting competitions that have transgender athletes dominating? For someone that's kept so abreast with women's sports surely there's got to be something behind your being so upset.

Do you have a target T level that you'd like anyone identifying as a women to have? You've likely put some thought into this, and wouldn't just be upset because "duh, trannies!!".

 

[drayer54]

They're not "men" but go on, do you have any studies or papers that show a statistically significant amount of Olympic sports or other sporting competitions that have transgender athletes dominating? For someone that's kept so abreast with women's sports surely there's got to be something behind your being so upset.

Do you have a target T level that you'd like anyone identifying as a women to have? You've likely put some thought into this, and wouldn't just be upset because "duh, trannies!!".

If a man strength trains under normal testosterone levels for a decade or more and then converts and continues training, you are starting with a huge advantage. I don’t care what your T level is now.
Laurel Hubbard is 43 and competed as a man. Gavin becomes Laurel and suddenly sets new records and you pretend this is fair to other women, actual women, who have always trained as women and shouldn’t have a huge asterisk next to any lift? It’s nonsense and shouldn’t be allowed. If you are born a man, it’s only fair and right to compete as a man.

 

[Irish#1]

IOC released testosterone level guidelines in 2015, this a non-issue lmao. She started transitioning in 2013, her T levels are likely trivial, and if they aren't guess what? There's the IOC guidelines. The faux outrage is hilarious.

Who said they were outraged? I'm not, but I think it's not fair for the women competing. Forgetting testosterone, if you think men and women are physically the same I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Irish#1]

They're not "men" but go on, do you have any studies or papers that show a statistically significant amount of Olympic sports or other sporting competitions that have transgender athletes dominating? For someone that's kept so abreast with women's sports surely there's got to be something behind your being so upset.

Do you have a target T level that you'd like anyone identifying as a women to have? You've likely put some thought into this, and wouldn't just be upset because "duh, trannies!!".

First I would imagine the number of transgenders is relatively small and the number that want to compete in sports at any level is even smaller, but that's not the point. Whether it be 1 or 100 competing, it's still a major advantage for the man that converted. To compete, transgender male to female athletes should have the same T levels as a natural woman.

 

[TorontoGold]

First I would imagine the number of transgenders is relatively small and the number that want to compete in sports at any level is even smaller, but that's not the point. Whether it be 1 or 100 competing, it's still a major advantage for the man that converted. To compete, transgender male to female athletes should have the same T levels as a natural woman.

That's my point. Is it worth the effort to be upset about quite literally a handful of cases? And further to that, does it impact the medaling? Adjust the rules and move on, unsurprisingly all big media sites have/had it as a front page story (CNN/Fox).

See, the last sentence is what's missing from any of Drayer's posts. That's something fair to say. I did read something where there's guys that are competing that have T levels of a natural woman which is wild to me. Kinda related, I feel like when cyclists got busted for taking something to boost T levels they always blamed it on getting lucky.

 

[Irish#1]

That's my point. Is it worth the effort to be upset about quite literally a handful of cases? And further to that, does it impact the medaling? Adjust the rules and move on, unsurprisingly all big media sites have/had it as a front page story (CNN/Fox).

See, the last sentence is what's missing from any of Drayer's posts. That's something fair to say. I did read something where there's guys that are competing that have T levels of a natural woman which is wild to me. Kinda related, I feel like when cyclists got busted for taking something to boost T levels they always blamed it on getting lucky.

You are correct, it's not a lot of cases, but tell that to the hundreds of women who have to compete against the transgender. How would you feel if you trained all your life sacrificing social life and friendships, putting in hours every day, paying a coach, etc., then was told a dude was in the competition? Even with lower T levels, a mans body is still stronger and faster.

 

[TorontoGold]

You are correct, it's not a lot of cases, but tell that to the hundreds of women who have to compete against the transgender. How would you feel if you trained all your life sacrificing social life and friendships, putting in hours every day, paying a coach, etc., then was told a dude was in the competition? Even with lower T levels, a mans body is still stronger and faster.

But the odds are it wouldn't happen, like the odds are pretty negligible and I wouldn't get riled up unless it played a determining factor in why I lost. To have it front page on all big media pages, is pretty clear that it's meant to get people outraged at a non-issue.

 

[drayer54]

But the odds are it wouldn't happen like the odds are pretty negligible and I wouldn't get riled up unless it played a determining factor in why I lost. To have it front page on all big media pages, is pretty clear that it's meant to get people outraged at a non-issue.

It's the Olympics. People all over the world dedicate their lives for years to train for it and then they have to compete against a former man in their 40's? I don't care if it's high school sports, Olympics, whatever. People can identify as whatever the hell they want, but if they are born a male, they should compete against males and vice versa. Even if her T lowers, she still started with a frame and build she made as a man. Science doesn't change just to accommodate people's lifestyle choices.

 

[TorontoGold]

It's the Olympics. People all over the world dedicate their lives for years to train for it and then they have to compete against a former man in their 40's? I don't care if it's high school sports, Olympics, whatever. People can identify as whatever the hell they want, but if they are born a male, they should compete against males and vice versa. Even if her T lowers, she still started with a frame and build she made as a man. Science doesn't change just to accommodate people's lifestyle choices.

Are you mad at her or the institution that allows her to compete?

 

[drayer54]

Are you mad at her or the institution that allows her to compete?

The institutions for not doing their job ensuring a level playing field for athletes. I don't care if it's a high school athletic association, NCAA, pro sports, or Olympics. Pro-sports I would be a little more tolerant of because it is a business, but the others should know better.

As for Laurel, I hope Laurel wins. It's going to take more natural-born men dominating women's sports for enough people to recognize this is a problem, so I hope they all take gold to fix this going forward.

 

[Irish#1]

But the odds are it wouldn't happen, like the odds are pretty negligible and I wouldn't get riled up unless it played a determining factor in why I lost. To have it front page on all big media pages, is pretty clear that it's meant to get people outraged at a non-issue.

It is happening. The transgender is on the team, so they will be competing against women. Why is this a non-issue?

 

[TorontoGold]

It is happening. The transgender is on the team, so they will be competing against women.

You misread, my point is that it's not happening to 99.9999% of people who compete in sports on every level. I

 

[Bishop2b5]

You misread, my point is that it's not happening to 99.9999% of people who compete in sports on every level. I

What would you consider an acceptable level for women athletes to be cheated out of an award, a scholarship, or a championship? 99.9999% of people didn't get murdered today or raped. That doesn't mean we should be OK with the .0001% who were. Regardless of how small the numbers, there are things we simply don't accept and be OK with. And we all know how this works: "Oh, it's only 1 in a million, so no big deal!" then next year it's "Oh, it's only 1 in 100,000, so no big deal!" and eventually we get to, "Well, it's common now and it's going on for years and you didn't have a problem with it before, so why are you just now complaining?" We've seen this before. Enough.

If you're one of those women who trained for years (or their parents) and then got robbed by a guy claiming to be a woman, I bet you wouldn't think it was no big deal and an insignificant number. There is no acceptable number, just as there's no acceptable number for a lot of things. A man competing as a woman, even if he's taking hormones or hormone blockers or has had his junk cut off, has a significant advantage over genuine female athletes, and it's a mockery of fair competition and a great disservice to women.